Red Bugs.. My Expierence.

[OzoneParkGuy]

Well as much as I Dip all my corals that I purchase and sometimes get. These small creatures can become elusive and enter your sytem and become a problem in our reefs.
So this is my story on Red Bugs(Tegastes acroporanus).
I would say about 45 days ago I began noticing issue's with my Acropora sp corals (Tri Color Valida, Australian Delicate,Turquoise Stag, PearlBerry, Aqua Delight,Blue Turaki,Ice Fire Enchinata and a few others) that all started to loose there vibrant colors. Upon closer inspection, I noticed small orange/copper colored bugs crawling on them... polyps began receeding, and growth was at a standstill, more so on others. So I began dipping my corals in Coral RX, half strength. I watched as these little buggers came off and began moving irratically and dying. Boy did I enjoy that. But that was only the begining. I turkey basted gently as not to blow the skin off the smooth skinned acro's & I left the corals in the coral RX for a max time of 10 minutes. With-in those 10 minutes I bleached out a 20K Lokani and a Blue/Green Turaki mini colony.. So I advise agaist using Coral RX on extremely Sensitive Acropora sp species. I did more reasearch on-line and found a ton of info about these Red Bugs and how to rid them using Interceptor.

During this past week, I drove to a number of Vet places a few in Qns and a few in Bklyn and told them of my tale of the dreaded Reef Bugs. The vets were amazed to hear about this story and the so called cure for it. However there was one problem... the Vets that I had visited did not carry the pills... they had some other Heartworm medication made by Frontline and it had a different active ingredient other than Milbemycin Oxime the main ingredient in Interceptor . The vets were kind enough to refer me to Pet Meds and told me that they would call in the order for me, to help me out.. but I was too desperate to wait and needed them now... not in 7 days. (So the Vets are willing to help if you speak to them). I did find one location in Brooklyn that had the pills... but after hearing my story and them reading up on it on-line... they wanted $80.00 for the Box. You know what I said to my self... and walked out.

So I Then called a friend who has a Reef Tank and explained the situation. My friend stated come on over, that he had the pills because he has dogs! I was there in less than 30 minutes. LOL! Good to have Reefing Buddies!!!

The Dosage...
1 large Interceptor pill is 23mg, which treats a 380 gallon system.
4 5.75mg Interceptor pills is 25mg, which treats a 400 gallon system.
0.025mg per 10 gallons of water. Use of a digital scale to measure. Usually bought at a smoke shop.

I wanted the Red Bugs gone and dead, so I double dosed my system. Now I know a few people who have used the Interceptor who have done the same(doubled dosed) with no ill effects, and that was what I was going to do. 4 pills @ 5.75mg each for a total of 25mg for a 400 gallon system.

What I did was at 6:30 AM Tuesday. I crushed 4 Interceptor pills up with the back of the spoon untill it was a powder. I then preheated a cup of aquarium saltwater in the microwave and mixed it. I removed my airline tubing to the skimmer and just let it run without foam fractioning. I removed the filter socks and then disconnected the BRS Dual Reactors and cleaned them out and kept the cartridges submerged in RO water while I was out to work to kill off any red bugs.
At 7:00AM Tuesday I poured in the solution and got ready for work and left.
At 4:45PM Tuesday (9 hours 45 minutes later) I got home and peered inside to see the tank, thinking all I was about to see, was a completely bleached out, foul smelling tank and I was surprised to find all my fish and shrimps welcoming me home (Harley, Blue Coral Banded, cleaner and Fire).
Not a single solitary Red Bug in sight(nano scope)!! LOL!! Boy was I relieved!! Unfortunatly all the hermits and acro crabs were dead(as stated in the on-line articles, it will kill inverts).
I proceeded to do a 42 gallon water change with matching parameters and reconnected my airline tubing to the skimmer, added clean filter socks, and reconnected the BRS Dual Reactors filling with GFO & Carbon.

At 5:30PM Wed Corals appeared a little more vibrant than what they were. Fish are active and swimming. Shrimps still alive. NO RED BUGS! Tested Param's.
AT 4:15PM Thurs Same, NO RED BUGS!
At 6:00PM Fri Same, Coral polyps are begining to open up. So far so good!

[MIKE NY]

I feel your pain as well as most guys into SPS. I've done battle with them a few times over the years. Just keep an eye out because many recommend dosing three seperate times over a few weeks span. ...only once I had to do a second dosage a week later, but glad to hear everything is doing well again.

[OzoneParkGuy]

Thanks buddy. :beer:
I have been contemplating the second dosage day to ensure (as the many articles state) that I kill off any newly hatched juv's in the event the interceptor does not affect the eggs(if there are any or if adult's are live bearer's). Hoping for the latter. Possibly Monday for the second dose.:hmm3:

[DrHarryLopez]

Nicely written OPG

[OzoneParkGuy]

Thanks Doc!

Sat, Sun & Mon... everything is in check and NO Red Bugs in sight. It has been 6 days since the double dosing of Interceptor and no ill effects of the dosing. Fish are all active and swimming.:fish2: Colors are starting to return... slowly but surely.:) Polyps are mostly out as well now. LPS & Softies were not affected at all.

If you are contemplating doing this procedure, and are unsure, there is absolutely nothing to worry about. You CAN NOT overdose your tank. I have tested this out.

To make it easier on your self... the day you do decide to dose, make sure it is a day you do your routine water changes so you can conserve water. Waste not... feel me.

I beleive I will be making this part of a bi yearly routine in dosing my tank as a precautionary measure.

Any questions.... just ask!:wavehand:

[Rickyrooz1]

OzoneParkGuy, when is your next treatment? I would treat a total of three times to be safe. When I did two treatments they came back but it was at the recommended dosage. Also, you don't need to perform a water change anymore, that was when Dustin first wrote up the treatment. Interceptor is ineffective after 24 hours so all you need to do is add back your carbon and hook up the airline tubing to your skimmer. I started my treatment on Sunday to finally rid these bugs for good. I used a double dose and will do a total of four treatments. I also read that Red Bugs are not egg layers as once thought. Dustin wrote that the eggs would hatch every three to five days but in fact they are live bearers.

[jarrett shark]

no water change??? i would be scared

[MIKE NY]

I've read that also, but I would do the WC anyway as well changing out the carbon often...it will only help.
OPG....I wouldn't do a treatment unless it really needs it because you will wiping out all the good lil critters too like pods etc...

[OzoneParkGuy]

Thanks for your reply & concern RickyRooz :thumbsup:
Right now I see no need for a second treatment dosage for a couple of reasons.
I am positively certain I have wiped out the Red Bugs(Tegastes acroporanus) with the double dosage running in my system for 9 hrs and 45 minutes. Second reason, I am maxed out on room. So I can not fit anymore SPS pieces in my tank. So that means no more purchases from members or LFS's. My pieces all just need to grow and fill out now. I find that the most common mistake in selecting SPS pieces is not knowing when enough is enough. LOL! So I'm happy with what selections I have made. So if I do not accuire anything, I will not get anything.:fun2:
Third reason for me. In the event they do come back soon...means either I didn't do it properly, I purchased another piece or there may be a different species that are hardier than others and I am not sure if the buggers will or have the ability to become resistant to the medication right away.. So I will wait it out and see.:eek2: It could also be the opposite for the future if I dose later, no one is certain, and that will have to be a chance I will have to take. Hopefully not. :spin1:

[OzoneParkGuy]

Yes another good point MikeNY... as I do have a Pterosynchiropus splendis.
As stated earlier, I did the w/c on a mandatory maintenence sched day. So it had to be done regardless(Bi-weekly w/c's).

[Chraddam]

Excellent article, Noel. Two questions-were there any losses other than crabs? What about snails/pods? And was there any noticeable difference in the behavior of the rest of the animals in the tank?

[jarrett shark]

What about the eggs, not sure if intercepter kills eggs

[OzoneParkGuy]

Excellent article, Noel. Two questions-were there any losses other than crabs? What about snails/pods? And was there any noticeable difference in the behavior of the rest of the animals in the tank?

Thank You Jeff... However I must be gratefull for all the TRUE Pioneers in this Hobby that came up with this solution. I just followed there guidelines and applied it to my OWN situation.

As far as losses, I guess it depends on which species(my mithrax aka emerald crab lived). Acro Crabs, Pods, Hermits(some, depends on age I guess), Sea Spiders, Shrimps(some.. mine all lived, again depends on age?)
What I found interesting (2 part answer to your question about behavior), was that the majority of Hermits that (Brown, Blue and Red) I had in the tank, the ones that I had the longest(they usually have the bigger shells) at about a year lived, while the others(smaller) died(as mentioned in all the write-ups). 2nd answer... The Hermits that did live were really sluggish and it took almost a week for them to start moving around. So keep an eye out on them as you may think they are dead when in fact they are alive.
As far as snails... I did not see an affect on them. Pods were affected. Whether or not I see a difference in population... I can not tell because they are always hiding and my Mandarine eats them. So I usually replenish every 6 months anyway.
I saw NO difference in behavior from my fishes.
TY for your questions Jeff... See ya soon!

What about the eggs, not sure if intercepter kills eggs
Hey Jarrett.. It's funny that you mention this because I've been thinking of this since dosing. In the write-ups that I have read.. they say they are egg layers. If indeed that is so, the life cycle is 3-5 days, the medication only last 24 hours, I only medicated my entire system(193 TWV) for 9hrs 45 minutes and then I did a 20% w/c and replaced the Carbon and GFO and reconnected my skimmer tubing. That means I stripped all the medication out of the system.. right? I hope so!! :spin3: Then I should have a new Red Bug infestation by now... :eek2: In which I DO NOT:bounce1:. That could really only mean two possibilities. The Interceptor does kills eggs or that they may not be egg layers as once thought. I really can not speak of the latter as I am not qualified... I only speak that of which I know of and have experience with.

I see no reason to be affraid of dosing with Interceptor.

I will use it as part of a routine maintenence preventative measure every 6 months, and also use it as a dip for any newly recieved SPS pieces.

GL to everyone !!

[MIKE NY]

thats why they recommend a second and third dosage at a couple of weeks intervals because they don't know the incubation time or the life cycle ....now I recently read an article that these lil buggers maybe live bearers which is why many of us can do one dosage and kill them...and since they are crustations that is why all the pods, crabs, shrimps, hermits etc... are at risk also

[OzoneParkGuy]

thats why they recommend a second and third dosage at a couple of weeks intervals because they don't know the incubation time or the life cycle ....now I recently read an article that these lil buggers maybe live bearers which is why many of us can do one dosage and kill them...and since they are crustations that is why all the pods, crabs, shrimps, hermits etc... are at risk also


BINGO!!! Chances are I've read the same article aswell.. :smokin:

TY Mike!!!

[Gangous]

I just added half a pill to my system around 75 gal water all hermits r dead shrimp looks ok
Should I add the second half of the pill I would like to dose once

[Gangous]

Btw this is mattl22 on mr

[OzoneParkGuy]

Btw this is mattl22 on mr


Hey Matt long time... :wave: Hopefully you'll be joining us soon. Whenever your ready :beer:
Back to basics... I need a few answers from you. What size pill do you have? 5.75mg for medium dogs or the 23mg for large dogs? What is your TOTAL WATER VOLUME including water in the skimmer, sump, pipes and reactors? Use a guesstimate but try to be close. Make sure you at least follow what I have done or read the many on-line articles to help. From what you have posted you have already dosed. So I'm not sure what you have done. Your just throwing out a question with no history and I can not answer it and do not want to become liable or if something goes wrong and you say OPG told me to do it. I do have a reputation at stake... LOL! So more info is needed to help you out. If you want shoot me a pm with your cellular number so I can reach out to you.

[jarrett shark]

Welcome Matt,let us know how you made out

[Gangous]

What's up guys I just got home my cleaner made it my anenome crab aka ( porcelain crab ) aka mr fan hands who lives in my bubble coral made it I'm looking for my sexy shrimp he shares the bubble with mr fan hands have yet to seen him all of my hermits died
Should I try and remove all dead hermits?
Ohh and most importantly no sighn of red bugs and I can't believe the polyp extention can change so much over a day

[Staaan]

Whats up Matt?

That Red Lobo Brain you sold me is doing great!!

[Gangous]

Great grown a lot?

My sps look soooo much beter I'm pschyed !!!!
Btw
My system just incase it can help someone out there
75 gal with 20 gal sump
Pm bullet one with mag 12
Diy 72 3 w LEDs
2 x mp 40

I dosed 1 half of a big pill crushed up and mixed in a little hot wAter then added right by mp40
All hermits died with in 30 min

[jarrett shark]

I told you to take out the hermits , poor guys lol

[Gangous]

I took out about 7 that I could grab proably had 15 still in there

[jarrett shark]

Good feeling when sps goes from bad to good

[jarrett shark]

I just wan to bump this thread b/c i been going crazy past 2 months to find out that it was red bugs the whole time

[chuckbuc]

noel pm me ur number bro im gonna use my interceptor tomorrow i have a few questions ,my total water volume is 200 gallons in m,y system i figured half a large pill is that corect ? i dont have a scale to measure with ,also i got most of my cleaner shrimp ,harleys,emrald crabs and hermits out ,i cant get my fire shrimp,sexys and piston out u think they will make it

[jarrett shark]

Try to get sexy shrimp because they are the first to die imo

[OzoneParkGuy]

PM has been sent bro... Let me know how things worked out. TTY soon.

[jarrett shark]

Keep us posted

[iwishtofish]

I found an animal hospital that is willing to provide me with Interceptor. I have one affected acropora (now under LED in the sump), and another unaffected acropora up top. I just plan to dip the one coral.

The animal hospital wants to know what size tablet I need. How do I figure a dose for the one coral? Would one tablet of a certain size be able to be divided up into several dip doses, just in case I need to dip more than once?

[OzoneParkGuy]

Chances are if you have one Acropora sp coral that is infected, you may have others infected aswell. Now placing one infected coral in the sump where your flow is will most likely infect your entire tank. So I recommend treating your entire tank. JMO... it's up too you however to decide.

[iwishtofish]

Chances are if you have one Acropora sp coral that is infected, you may have others infected aswell. Now placing one infected coral in the sump where your flow is will most likely infect your entire tank. So I recommend treating your entire tank. JMO... it's up too you however to decide.

Maybe I'll decide to do that...sigh :lol: This hobby!

I had read they were livebearers. Maybe I can find something conclusive on that, because I suppose it would make a big difference.

This thread mentions dosage for the whole tank. Do you think just a very small amount of crushed pill could kill the bugs for a single dip? If you don't have experience with that method, no big deal, of course. I'll just have to search around - or experiment!

[OzoneParkGuy]

Yeahhh I know... LOL!
I've done quick dips aswell. It really doesn't matter what size pill you use for the quick dips.
What you need:
Used Salifert Blue Spoon... we all should have this...LOL!
Interceptor... size pill doesn't matter.
Pint of saltwater
Pint of Fresh Saltwater to rinse your coral in after dipping.

Directions:
I've crushed the pill up in it's package but be carefull enough not to pulverize the package to spill it's contents out.

1 pint of saltwater. (Separate, half and half) One for the container that you will place the coral in and half to warm up in the microwave to put the interceptor in.. it dissovles easier this way.

Warm up one of the half pints of water in the microwave usually 1 minute and use the salifert spoon to scoop out a nice heaping spoonfull of interceptor, mix it in with the one you just took out of the microwave (and drink, nahh j/k!! LOL!) and mix completely. Now COMBINE both half pints together. Remember it should feel like your tank water temp. If it's too hot wait for it to cool off and then place your coral into the dip. I've used a white porcelin food container so I can see the red bugs going crazy. LOL! After 15 minutes you remove from the dip and now you use the pint of the FRESH saltwater to rinse your coral in and your done.!

[DrHarryLopez]

Nicely written OPG!

[iwishtofish]

OzoneParkGuy, thanks SO much for the detailed instructions! I am going to just dip the one coral, and go from there. If they come back, I'll take a different approach!

[OzoneParkGuy]

@ Doc... Thanks bud.

@ iwishtofish..... anytime & GL to you my friend. I'm sure your going to enjoy watching there fate! LOL.

[iwishtofish]

Just did a 15 min dip on the acro that was quarantined in my sump. The coral is not looking good. There is a little tissue recession on the small tips, and on the backside. After placing the coral back in the DT, I observed one or two redbugs still clinging to the tissue. Perhaps they are just latched on like ticks, or are mortally wounded.

Time will tell.

[OzoneParkGuy]

Wow.. I'm real sorry to hear this.
I've never had an issue with coloration changing or tissue tip loss after dipping with Interceptor (I've had turaki's, lokani's & enchinata's which are the more sensitive skinned acro's dipped and this hasn't happened).

* However Coral RX or Iodine will make the color's change and possibly even bleach some, if not ALOT of them out, if left for more than the required dipping time and the instructions not followed correctly. * For Informational Purpose's of this thread.

However, the only explanation I can see fit is that the infestation was already taking a toll on the untreated Acro for quite sometime. Not your fault, It's usually hard to notice if you are not certain of what it is your looking for. What you must remember they don't kill your coral right away. They slowly drain it(polyps retract.. so since the polyps retract there's no food or light absorbtion, no food or light absorbtion then the zooanthelia in side the coral does not feed and your coral stops growing, begins to loose color and slowly starves to death. So now that the red bugs have been removed, the damage is more visually apparent.

It happens, but you know what... now your more experienced and you know what to look for! The tall tale signs!

Regards,
OPG
Hope this helps buddy..

[reefer74]

Just thought I would bump this back up....extremely informational and exactly what I will be doing to my tank like.....tomorrow.

[reefmonkey29]

hay i dont know a hole lot about saltwater tanks am only 20 i notice in my 39gal tank some type of cockroach/shrimp looking thing running around at night it a whole lot i only see them at night i am wondering if its a pest or just baby shrimp its hard to explain can some1 who knows what their dong plz give me a call 347-351-6689 thanks very much

[DrHarryLopez]

Welcome to Reef Central and the NYReefClub forum!

[cullyisgully]

hay i dont know a hole lot about saltwater tanks am only 20 i notice in my 39gal tank some type of cockroach/shrimp looking thing running around at night it a whole lot i only see them at night i am wondering if its a pest or just baby shrimp its hard to explain can some1 who knows what their dong plz give me a call 347-351-6689 thanks very much

If you can post a pic it would help alot buddy

[Awibrandy]

For anyone wondering if they can dose their tank with the Bayer Complete.
NO, don't do it. I accidentily spilled half of the 12 cup mixture I had prepared for dipping into my tank.
Fish died within 30 minutes.;( I believe the good bacteria also perished. Snails & crabs survived. Corals do not seem to have been affected.
I got 3 out of 6 dead fish out. I could not find the other 3. I was not about to pull my 155 gallon tank apart to find them. 3 days later I have a diatom bloom, and some GHA.

[OzoneParkGuy]

Uggghhh... sorry to hear!! Weekly w/c's untill you've changed out the ENTIRE total water volume and change out the carbon every 2 weeks. Keep us posted Awi....

[Awibrandy]

The day it happened I did a quick 30 gal water change, and throw in about 2 lbs. of gac in a nylon bag in the return chamber by the return pumps. This past Thursday I did another 40 gal water change. Today I changed out the gac & gfo in the BRS' reactors. I had cut the photo period down to 4 hours for both blue & white LEDs. As of yesterday evening the diatoms were barely noticeable, and the gha is just about gone as well. The only gha to be found is on a couple of snails, and a 1/4" X 1/4" tuft on a rock.;) Lights are still out getting ready to increase the blues.;) I will also run some test today.;)

[OzoneParkGuy]

Good job Awi... I'm sure you'll be fine in due time. Just watch out for the cycle since you mentioned that you think the bacteria load died aswell. So no restocking until your sure... I know you have things under control :) GL.

[Nanighan]

I know this is a thread about chemical treatments for red bugs, but curious to know what kind of fish you guys have. About 1.5 years ago I discovered AEFW in my system and picked up a yellow candy hogfish. In less than week I notice improvement in the corals etc. I have witess it yank out the flatworms and devour them . Also it seems it eats AEFW as soon as they hatch as there are none to be found today.
Last week I notice a buddy had red bugs. I checked my system as he gave me some frags. Sure enough I found a few of them on a stag frag and nowhere else. This week there are none to be found in that frag or anywhere.
Just my experience. Its the single best purchase I have made :)

[Awibrandy]

I know this is a thread about chemical treatments for red bugs, but curious to know what kind of fish you guys have. About 1.5 years ago I discovered AEFW in my system and picked up a yellow candy hogfish. In less than week I notice improvement in the corals etc. I have witess it yank out the flatworms and devour them . Also it seems it eats AEFW as soon as they hatch as there are none to be found today.
Last week I notice a buddy had red bugs. I checked my system as he gave me some frags. Sure enough I found a few of them on a stag frag and nowhere else. This week there are none to be found in that frag or anywhere.
Just my experience. Its the single best purchase I have made :)

I had a similar experience a few years ago while helping out two reefers. I picked up an anemone from the one selling it to deliver to the one buying it. The one making the purchase couldn't make the trip to pick it up, and since he lived near my mom I agreed to take it to him. Problem was that it came on a rock. I didn't know that the seller had flat worms in his system, and I put the darn thing in my tank overnight. You guessed it. The next morning there were flatworms all over my euphyllias.:( I dipped it in the Seachem Coral dip, and they fell right off. Of course there were others still in my system which my wrasse took care of.;) At the time I had a few wrasse.

Thing is; I am not sure that wrasse eat Red Bugs.

[OzoneParkGuy]

@ Nanighan... thus the reason for RC, to share information. Anything to help combat these minute buggers will help. So post away buddy!

@ Awilda... good job posting ur results also. :thumbsup:

My $.02
I can understand why these critters can multiply within a few weeks to plague proportions under our closed systems (wheather AEFW's, Planaria, or Red Bugs) because we have no real combatants or proof of which predator will eat them. So your information is good guys.
Now I know in the wild with the vast majority of fish predators to eat these buggers it's all under control. That's why it's important to always dip and try to QT your corals.