DIY LED build for new 240 Gallon

[that0neguy1126]

My wife finally convinced me (ok it really wasn't that hard) to start to build out a 240gallon tank for our living room. The tank is going to be 96" x 24" x 24" acrylic.

I plan to start building the stand this weekend, and I have been reading through the LED builds to get a grasp on what its going to take to light this thing.

For LED's I was planning on using 72 CREE XR-E Royal Blue and 72 CREE XP-G Cool White's or XR-E Cool White's
So far I was planning on using 2 of the MW SP-320-48's.
I was planning to run 6 LED modules with 24 LED's in each. Each module would have 1 string of 12 White LED's and 1 string of 12 Blue LED's.

SP-320-48
Output Voltage: 48 Volts DC
Min Current: 0 Amps
Max Current: 6.7 Amps
Power: 321.6 Watts

If I understand this correctly. I could run a series of 12 LED's with a fv of about 40vDC (3.3v @ 700ma per LED x 12 LED's)
With a series of 12 I would need 12 sets of LED's to get my 144 LED's which would be split 6 per PS.
run at 700mA this would give me 4.2 Amps (700mA x 6).
This would also run about 168 Watts (4.2A x 40vDC)

So the power supply would be able to run this right?

I also plan to build a DIY controller to control this, and many other things. The reason I went with 48vDC instead of the 24vDC is with 24 I would have to have 24 strings of 6 LED's. Which I couldn't dim with the hydra controller. with 48vDC I would only have 12 strings of 12 LED's which I could dim with the PWM's on the hydra.

I have spent the last 2 days reading through the original LED build thread from Soundwave, as well as many of the other bigger build threads. I think I have a pretty good grasp on what is required but looking for any thoughts/criticism. Or even tell me if I am way off here and obviously need to read more.

[nuclearheli]

What I am about to post is IMO and only that. There are many differing opinions on what type of LED fixture to build and how to drive it. You can see my ideas in the 210 build on the DIY. I also did extensive research and made my own decision. You really have three options.

1. Low voltage low current multiple drivers (in excess of 10 or 15 or more for a single build)
2. High voltage low current single drivers (dangerous voltage)
3. Low voltage high current parallel configuration (risks for over driving and destroying lots of LED's and High current is dangerous).

As you can see my opinion is that all have specific risks and drawbacks.

Option 1 is the safest I agree, it is also the messiest, again IMO!!! Multiple power connections, lots of drivers that can fail, lots of messy wiring, plenty of room to short out.

Option 2 is the clean, no doubt. But it has risks specifically because the voltage is high. Yes, you can electrocute yourself but frankly, you can do that with all three options.

Option 3 has equal risks to option 2. Again, IMO, there is virtually no difference between high voltage and low current, and low voltage with high current. In these cases both supplies have the potential to fry your butt.

My evaluation led me to choose option 2. My reasons were simple.

In the parallel environment (option 3) a failure of one or more of your strings will lead to over driving the other strings. Remember, the current is divide by each string you run in parallel. When one fails for some reason, if it fails the current on the other strings will increase. Also, it takes a bit to balance the build because you need to "account" for the current. It's possible to blow all of your LED's with over current if a failure or series of failures happen. You also need to put other components into the design to try to protect your circuit (resistors and fuses).

Option 1 for me was not an option because IMO!!!!again it's messy. Many drivers, many points of failure, lots of wiring complex dimming etc,. Also, I intend to control my two drivers using my Neptune Apex and a 4 port energy bar. This is not possible with option 1 and I would need at least two 8 port energy bars to control the power to 16 or more drivers. Again, a mess in my opinion.

I chose option 2 because I understand the risks involved in high voltage and I believe I know how to manage the build. It's unacceptable in any of the three options to have failures not to mention shorts. These things are easily found and factored out of the build in the beginning before high voltage is ever applied. Carefully done the high voltage option is clean and has the same risks as the other builds.

If anyone really believes they are save with 48 Volts DC! and 1A then they are kidding themselves. Same holds true for 300 Volts and 0.7 amps or 48 volts and 6 amps. Make no mistake, given the situation each of these will kill you, easily if you are not careful.

Just do a Google search on electrocution and find out just how little current or voltage it really takes to stop your heart. That being said safety in these builds is more important then choosing a driver option.

ALL THIS IS MY OPINION and I respect all other opinions. I have seen many excellent builds with the other options and have actually used ideas from these builds for my own.

[that0neguy1126]

Luckily my Father in Law is an EE. I also work with 48vDC at work (some of my network equipment runs of DC because of the noise from AC). So I understand the risk's and know where to take the precautions that are needed.

One question I had is how do you wire the 6 strings of 12 LEDS in series, to the Power supply. Would not each string be run in parallel from the PS itself, or am I missing something?

I haven't really found anything that really shows wiring the strings of LED's to the power supply, and this is obviously something I need to better understand with this build.

[that0neguy1126]

Well I just realized the SP-320-48 is not a constant current. I must be missing something in my understanding of this. Any suggestions on which driver to use for this build?

[nuclearheli]

Sorry, I am having a hard time with the forums tonight. Timeouts continuous.

I am actually not familiar with the SP series drivers. I just looked at the data sheet and I don't understand their application.

Regardless, you want a constant current driver? I would think you don't. Do you not want to control your lighting by a dimming circuit?

The best wiring diagram I can find for you for series connection is on this thread. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1962999&highlight=led+wiring+diagram

The only difference is I am not putting a resistor in the circuit, it's really not necessary. You just don't want to choose a power supply that can overdrive the current to the LED. The best information I have is you don't want to run CREE's over 1A. What is important is the output curve is not linear. So driving the LED's up to their maximum will not produce that much more light. Everything I read so far indicates that the best current is 700 mA.

As far as Meanwell is concerned you will not find a suitable power supply from them that will drive many LED's in series. They do not make any low current high voltage power supplies that can be controlled by a 0 to 10 volt signal.

[that0neguy1126]

Im having lots of timeouts with the forum tonight as well.

Yes I was planning on building a PWM to be able to dim the LED's.
Was also planning on driving them at around 700mA.

[SA13]

You don't want to use that SP since it doesn't have any current protection.

If your dead set on going with 6 in parallel, have you looked at the HLG-320-48

[that0neguy1126]

So I talked to one of my coworkers and think I worked it out.

Found this meanwell driver.

http://www.meanwell.com/search/hlg-240h/default.htm

Looking at the HLG-240h-48_B
Watts: 240
Power: 44.8-51.1vDC
Current: 2.5-5A

Still running 12 XRE's in serries @ 700mA will run at 43.2vDC
Then I would hook up 6 of these strings in parallel which would be 4.2A
This would pull 181.44 Watts.
These numbers also give me a little wiggle room that I could drive at a higher current if needed, but so far reading these forum's there is no need to.

This driver also has constant current that is dimable via a PWM/POT.

With 2 of these drivers, I should be able to run my 144 LED's that I plan to.

I also understand that running the 6 seriesin parallel I will put a 1A fuse for each series in case one faults out. That way I wont burn up 72 LED's.

I also see a lot of people adding resistor's right after the fuse. Trying to figure out the reason behind this. Is it because not every LED will have the same fV @ 700mA? and you put in whatever resistor you need to get the draw the same on each series?

[that0neguy1126]

I see the HLG-320h-48_B
Watts: 320
Power: 43-53vDC
Current: 3.35-6.7A

Would there be any disadvantages or benefits with going with the 240 or the 320?

[SA13]

5A vs 6A

If your running them at 700mA the 240W will do.

[that0neguy1126]

Even if I run them at 700mA, would the 320W cause any issues? with the 320W i would have the option to drive the current up if I saw a need to.

[SA13]

It would give you more headroom or you could do 9 strings :hmm4:
I don't know if it would cause more problems or not. Maybe just in the fact you would be tempted to feed that monster more.

[kcress]

that0neguy1126; I see you haven't kept up with the Big LED Thread... :hmm5:

A couple of points.

The 320 is vaporware. It does not exist.

The 240 does but is only marginally dimmable (%50).

The 150 is fully dimmable.

While 48V isn't 100% safe it is substantially safer than 100+ voltages. It's about the difference between driving 200MPH and driving 48MPH. A WORLD OF DIFFERENCE. You could get hurt driving either but you know the difference between the risks.

I believe you're on the right track, thinking lights before anything else - within reason. You're better half will be greatly impressed with the soft rich light without an aquarium even! My family really loved the rich ambient when they saw a LED fixture running.

As for parallel. It's not hard. It rarely takes much adjustment and it keeps the working voltage within reason. Go with it.

As for which driver. You really should find what you can buy and work from there. I've helped several people with their designs only to have the whole thing go off the rails because the drivers are not available.

As for your LED counts. You state the tank size but didn't say what's in it. That will dictate the density of LEDs required.

[that0neguy1126]

Thanks for the input Kcress. I have been trying to read a couple of the 200+ gal threads. Is there one dedicated to big builds?

I plan to keep a fairly mixed tank. Right now I have a 40gal with T5's over it. Some paly/zoa's, some LPS, Maxima. Not too much because I was planning on upgrading soon. I tried some LPS, but they seem to die on me right now, which I think is due to water quality issues. (Had my son bump my GFO reactor and made some GFO dust in the tank).

I would like to be able to keep anything, but realize I don't need to be able to keep SPS on the sand. Would be fine keeping them higher up.

I was also planning on using 80 optics, with maybe 60 or 40's around the outside edge's of the fixtures.

When you say the 240 is only dimable 50% why is that?

I haven't looked at the numbers for the 150, but I assume I would be able to run 3 or 4 series of 12 LED'd in parallel with it? That would probably work, would just need 3 or 4 of those guys.

Yea, I've worked with 48vDC before, actually the other day on some Cisco equipment. So I understand the risks (had to take a work class for that too! was much fun). One of my cousin's is actually a Union Electrician and my father in law is an EE, so was going to have them give me a hand with all of this to. I prefer engineering computer networks.

If I wanted to be able to run this many LED's on just 2 drivers and have them fully dimable by the hydra, what would you suggest trying to buy? Or any suggestions on the amount of LED in series or parallel that I should change?

[nanotank]

the HLG series drivers will not be avail for 12-16 weeks. I am holding out for them also to do PWM off the new profilux PWM module. Sucks having EVERYTHING for the last month but waiting 3-4 months for drivers... 185-48b is an option. I am going that route myself on my 240 but I am running 200-220 leds xre and xpe

[that0neguy1126]

Nano how are you planning on wiring yours up? How many in series. How many parallel strings and how many drivers?

Sent from my HTC Incredible

[that0neguy1126]

Does anyone know the difference between the HLG-240H and the HLG-240? The H says it is "wide input" but on the data sheets, it looks the same.

[SA13]

Sorry tog,
I didn't intend to mislead you.
Why this thing isn't released yet is beyond me.

Anyway on the H.
240 90 ~ 264VAC LEAKAGE CURRENT <0.75mA / 240VAC
240H 90 ~ 305VAC LEAKAGE CURRENT <0.75mA / 277VA

Hopefully someone will correct me if i'm wrong.
On a 480 3 phase line, line to neutral is ~277v.
So I'm (yet again) making an assumption that the H is for that.

[nanotank]

Nano how are you planning on wiring yours up? How many in series. How many parallel strings and how many drivers?

Sent from my HTC Incredible
I might get some more leds and make it an even 240 leds. I plane to run 5 strings of 12 off 4 hlq 185h-48b drivers if I go that route. I have thought about going down to 180 leds off 3 drivers also. When the drivers finally hit the states and if I feel like spending more money I will buy more leds. Each will have its own control off the total control pwm led module from GHL for my profilux. I will be able to do all the cool little tricks with this setup like my AI light son my office cube off profilux. Kcress has helped me out a lot. SO hopefully I will be able to do it right LOL...

[that0neguy1126]

Ok so looking over the design. I think I have come up with a few changes that will work.

If I got with the HLG-150-24_B
Voltage: 24vDC
Rated Current: 6.3A
Rated Power: 150W
Current Adj Range: 3.8-6.3A

With this I would run 6 LED's in serries (22.2fV if driver at 1A, 3.7fV per LED).
Then I would run 6 strings in parallel. (6A if each string is driven at 1A)
This converts to 133W per driver.

Using the Hydra PWM outputs to the 10vDC PWM cable from the HLG-150-24_B I could dim each power supply individually. I would need 4 - 6 PWM outputs depending on how many LED's I run in the end.

Thoughts, suggestions, problems?

[kcress]

SA13; You have it exactly right! Except for the "277VA" shoulda been 277VAC.

Yes, we can use the "H" models. They used to cost more and are unnecessary but MW is shifting to only 'H' offerings and so we shall use what we can get.

[kcress]

Ok so looking over the design. I think I have come up with a few changes that will work.

If I got with the HLG-150-24_B
Voltage: 24vDC
Rated Current: 6.3A
Rated Power: 150W
Current Adj Range: 3.8-6.3A

With this I would run 6 LED's in serries (22.2fV if driver at 1A, 3.7fV per LED).
Then I would run 6 strings in parallel. (6A if each string is driven at 1A)
This converts to 133W per driver.

Using the Hydra PWM outputs to the 10vDC PWM cable from the HLG-150-24_B I could dim each power supply individually. I would need 4 - 6 PWM outputs depending on how many LED's I run in the end.

Thoughts, suggestions, problems?


If you run 1A per string you'll need to change the fuses up.

Why the drop in voltage to 24V?

[that0neguy1126]

I did the math at 1A because that would be the max I could run them at. I plan on driving them only at 700mA.

That's the part I am still trying to grasp. I think the Hydra PWM outputs will only support a 24V circuit.... I am not 100% clear on that. Was talking to my father in law, and he said I needed to check what the Hydra PWM is capable of, power wise. So I need to go read through that thread again.

[avaneaton2000]

You most likely will be very unhappy with your colors with the cool whites. Neutral whites are a much better choice and will highlight the oranges and reds in your tank.

[dubes08]

Blues are really nice thats what i have and they pop.

[nuclearheli]

Ok so looking over the design. I think I have come up with a few changes that will work.

If I got with the HLG-150-24_B
Voltage: 24vDC
Rated Current: 6.3A
Rated Power: 150W
Current Adj Range: 3.8-6.3A

With this I would run 6 LED's in serries (22.2fV if driver at 1A, 3.7fV per LED).
Then I would run 6 strings in parallel. (6A if each string is driven at 1A)
This converts to 133W per driver.

Using the Hydra PWM outputs to the 10vDC PWM cable from the HLG-150-24_B I could dim each power supply individually. I would need 4 - 6 PWM outputs depending on how many LED's I run in the end.

Thoughts, suggestions, problems?

I really hate to debate this and it's true, HV supplies are dangerous. But ask any EE, it's the current that will kill you. I would take HV over high current any day if those were my only choices. While it's true that volts are delivered regardless of the demand and current is only there as needed, the human body will take all the current you can give it. It's an excellent load. You grab the end of a 24 volt 6A circuit and your chances are just as bad at surviving as mine are with a 250 Volt 0.7 amp driver.

Why I am saying this is I wouldn't want anyone to have a false sense of safety. In fact your parallel circuit will be more complex than a series circuit and hence more room for failure. But regardless, it's just another dangerous solution to a large LED build. There is simply no way around the danger regardless of how you do it.

And that doesn't mean I am pushing multiple drivers as a safe solution. IMHO large builds require up to 16 drivers or more if your want low voltage and it's just common sense that 16x power supplies can be just as dangerous as one High Voltage or High current supply.

Multiple drivers on small builds are fine but they don't scale up very well. It's a matter of the right tool for the job and if people are afraid to use the right tools then perhaps the build is beyond their capacity to complete. I for one own a rather large and dangerous chain saw. Every tree I have had cut down I have hired a professional to do it. I am AFRAID of the thing so I don't use it. Yes, a waste of money, not the first time. At the time I bought it I was trying to save money and thought it's not so bad. Wrong, its a scary tool. I also don't look for a lot of little chain saws to do the job, I just don't do it. The funny thing is a lot of people reading these forums will laugh at me because I am afraid to use my chain saw. Ok, I accept that. I also have a chain saw for sale.

Big builds require many drivers, HV Drivers, or High Current drivers. All have their dangers but when dealing with a large build I will still argue HV and High Current are equally as dangerous and likely to cause serious injury and likely death. As you yourself pointed out you better know what you are doing if your embarking on a large LED build.

I am not making any assumptions about the people that are building these devices on this forum. For all I know your a line pole worker that works with massive voltages and current. After all, somebody is doing it.

[Broncos]

Nuclearheli,

I appreciate your caution-It seems crazy to me that so many people are doing homemade LED builds and there are so many exposed wires... Then again all of our tanks have electric lights hanging over salt water... Are you concerned about shorts causing electrocution or in accidental immersion?

I for one am not much of an electrician, but I would like to do an LED build for my 180 so I'm watching this closely. I'm confident I can do it safely if I take my time and cover my bases. From your perspective what are the most important aspects to consider in safely wiring a DIY LED setup (besides your suggestions about reducing complexity of the drivers/wiring which makes a ton of sense)?

Don't mean to take this on a tangent, but hopefully it will keep us all safe!

Matt

[that0neguy1126]

I always found the key, when working with any electricity, is to always double check. Especially when there is power running through the wires.

I plan on heat shrinking everywhere where I have to make a splice and silicon up the LED Stars.

Power is nothing new for me, but I would hate for someone who has never done any power work to try and undertake something like this.

The biggest fear I have right now, is telling the wife I have to turn the power off to the house to run 2 new 20amp circuits to the basement.

[nuclearheli]

Nuclearheli,
From your perspective what are the most important aspects to consider in safely wiring a DIY LED setup (besides your suggestions about reducing complexity of the drivers/wiring which makes a ton of sense)?

Matt

Actually I think the concept of potting the LED's to fully electrically insulate the stars from both the heat sink, the external environment, and any accidental contact is the single biggest safety concept I am incorporating into my build.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1975251

I am at the point where I am mounting and potting my LED's now. Also, keeping all wiring connections to an absolute minimum is key. I am using the wire harness concept to connect each light bar in my assembly. In doing so I can incorporate high voltage connectors that can safely handle the voltage and current as well as being very safe and secure, not to mention corrosion free.

Because of the small number of actual components (two drivers for all LED's), I can minimize the number of electrical connections I need to make.

[that0neguy1126]

After messing with the stupid FTDI drivers for an hour, finally got the firmware to push to the AVR.

http://www.marinecolorado.org/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=1553&d=1299019095

[reefstricken]

update?