Best iron???

[SaltwaterSensei]

the very BEST iron : What do you experts use as an iron supllement?

I have a small 10 galling algae tank/refuge that I use to grow "tangheaven gold" and chaetomorhpa. I've been adding iron to the fuge using Kents "super chelated iron" ony dosing half of what it says on the bottle.

Is this the best iron I could be using? or is there anther type/brand that is of higher quality/

Als the fuge doesn't use a DSB but rather a mud substrate I got through billsreff(thanks its real muddy :D )

Does that particular substrate have iron suplplements in it? or should I still dose iron and if so what brand/kind.

thats:o

[Will]

Bill from BillsReef.com has his own Fe supplement that I've been using for awhile. It's working great.
-Will

[SaltwaterSensei]

hmm maybe on my next BR order I'll order some of that....


I'm planning on ordering more live sand anf mud from him...... but have a few questions I need him to ansewr...

Bill if you read this thread....

The lagoon mud I got from you settled in my fefuge pretty well. but is it really mud colleced from the a lagoon? because mine came dry, and it was quite a mess at first but I'm happy with it. Also your live sand rocks....the order I got from you had tons of those "fake" nassariuos snails I got maybe 15-20. Is there a way to order the sand without those snails? if not I can just bring them to my lfs or something.

[billsreef]

Hi Guy's.

Jessie,

The mud is "made" product sort of like Carib Sea's mineral mud. A mix of aragonite and iron rich clay. I was conducting experiments in my system with this stuff when carib sea anounced thier mineral mud :eek2: On the LS, sure I can sift out as many snails as possible, just remind me ;)

[SaltwaterSensei]

cool deal, I'll remember to request the snail siftage.

If the mud is an iron rich subtrate, should I still add iron periodically?

p.s. Its just Jesse:)

[Plantbrain]

You can use laterite and iron rich clay balls for the substrate or sprinkle some onyx sand or Flourite down there.
I've been using SeaChem's Flourish which uses Iron Gluconate(often found in vitamins we eat) and it has good properties binding the Fe, it's not held as strongly as say ETDA chelated iron and there are other chelators as well.

It's important to note that as soon as you add the iron to a marine tank(or FW) that the iron complexes with many other organic and inoragic compounds and ions. Whether or not the iron youi added is really biologically available is of serious debate.

The best method for the hobbyist is to make sure you have enough light, Ca, salinity, other nutrients like N, P and current.

Then add a series of doses based on the volume, say 5mls pulsed every 3rd day. I've been doing weekly. Plants really don't need much, macro's seem to need even less(there is less in their environment generally).

I'm rethinking the dosing routine though. I think I can add all the iron I need via the substrate alone.

For folks growing Caulerpas and other plants that can use the substrate sources, this will certainly work well.

It should also be stated that these Caulerpas and macro's in general are "leaky" plants. They leak all sorts of things in to the water column(like that lovely yellow color). Some is reused, some is given off to the water column, and some Fe comes out from diffusion gradients in the iron rich substrate where it may be reduced in micro spaces.

All that intense lighting often found in reef tanks will also unbind the chelator holding the iron. Now you got rust.

Bill's mud sounds good and has all the goodies you need(the right amount of organic matter and the all important bacteria).
I'd stick with the 1/2 dosages. I don't think you are going to gain much by switching liquid supplements, but a good substrate will do you very well for the Refugium. If your NO3, PO4 and Ca are in good shape and not at zero, the plants should grow pretty good with a nice substrate.

It's a balance, not too much to cause problems with the reef, not too little to stunt and/or starve your macro plants.

It takes some time for the larger plants to rebound and start removing iron/NO3, PO4 etc after you bottom out the nutrients, that's the time the nusiance algae gets a foothold.

Regards,
Tom Barr

[SaltwaterSensei]

thanks for the interesting nfo there, plantman....

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I give a recipe for an iron supplement (iron citrate) in this article on iron:

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/aug2002/chem.htm

I've also used Kent's EDTA product.

[Frick-n-Frags]

Before the reef industry decided to make liquid supplements, I used to use powdered iron supplement from the greenhouse industry. They even had like Mn added too.

The only marine plant supplements were little packs of like 10-10-10 algae fertilizer. I was in awe that that was even on the market. Ironic, how it has come full circle and certain people actually now DO add fertilizer for their macros.

[SaltwaterSensei]

wow, DIY iron, tthats cool. I've heard of people adding fertilizer for thier sea grasses and mangroves but not macros, thats interesting.....

[Plantbrain]

Ideally you would want the nutrient needs of the macro algae to exceed that of the bioload inputs: fish, critters, food, decomposition of organic materials.

And then you top off the needed nutiernts to maintain a relatively low but stable amount of macro and micro nutrients for the plants/macro algae.

Something is going to grow if you have even a small amount/tiny amount of nutrients+light. Catering the needs of the macro's/plants allows them to dominate and run at peak capacity/health/vigor.

You've likley seen how much biomass you remove from these filters/tanks when running well.

The mud/DBS's are great for the Caulerpa and other softer sediment macro's.
The roots and Rhizoids are in close contact with the "nutrient horizon".
The greatest concentration of nutrients will be at this layer in the Mud or DBS.
Bacteria and critter's waste accumulates and builds up over time also re enriching the substrate along with a good colony of bacteria and decomposeres.

I could balance out my 25 macro tank with fish and critters only. I would not need to add more inorganic nutrient salt (NP/ maybe traces also) additions.
But I'd like to know the rates for N and P removal per day in my set up.
I like to use these to gauge plant growth and health. Then I know what/when and how much to add.

Regards,
Tom Barr