Silicone

[Allmost]

Hello all

Just finished making my sump, and just noticed the label on silicone :mad:

This is what I used instead :
GE specialty SCS1200, 100% silicone, used for structural, some FDA and USDA applications !
On the back it sais : contains octamethylcy_clotetrasiloxane , which maycause reproductive system effectsand liver based on animal data !! Uncured may irritate eyes...


Is this reef safe ? :rolleyes:

Thank you all,

[HighlandReefer]

I'm not sure.


The MSDS Sheet for the product:
http://www.siliconeforbuilding.com/pdf/speciality/MSDS_SCS1200.pdf

The Data Sheet for the product:
http://www.siliconeforbuilding.com/pdf/speciality/Data_Sheet_SCS1200_Construction.pdf

From the data sheet:

"Contact Momentive technical services for applications
where sealant is used underwater or in continuous contact with water."

CUSTOMER SERVICE CENTERS
North America
E cs-na.silicones@momentive.com
• Specialty Fluids
T +1.800.523.5862
F +1.304.746.1654
• UA, Silanes and Specialty Coatings
T +1.800.334.4674
F +1.304.746.1623
• RTV’s and Elastomers
T +1.800.332.3390
F +1.304.746.1623
• Consumer Sealants & Construction
T +1.877.943.7325
F +1.304.746.1654
Sealants and Adhesives

[HighlandReefer]

Regarding the METHYLTRIACETOXYSILANE:

http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/chemicals/cn/Methyltriacetoxysilane.htm

From the data base:

"Health & Regulatory Guidelines
•EPA Regulations:
◦Marine Polutant: No"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Regarding the Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane

http://environmentalchemistry.com/yogi/chemicals/cn/Octamethylcyclotetrasiloxane.html

From the data base:

"Health & Regulatory Guidelines
•EPA Regulations:
◦Marine Polutant: No"

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The other ingredients are claimed on the MSDS to be NON-HAZARDOUS.


That's the best I can find on it myself, and I'm not a chemist. ;)

[bertoni]

I would ask in the DIY forum. The product could be toxic, and the note about contacting them before using it underwater is discouraging.

[steelhead77]

Uhhh...It's 100% Silicone. 100% Silicone is 100% Silicone. Raw silicone has some nasty stuff in it, (just take a good whiff of the open tube) but once cured is rendered inert and just fine in your tank or sump. The stuff you have is no different than any other silicone out there.

[HighlandReefer]

This is the MSDS sheet for DAP(R) AQUARIUM SILICONE SEALANT CLEAR, 688:

http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/00000688_english.pdf


The are differences in the chemical make-up between them.

[Sharpie_]

Uhhh...It's 100% Silicone. 100% Silicone is 100% Silicone. Raw silicone has some nasty stuff in it, (just take a good whiff of the open tube) but once cured is rendered inert and just fine in your tank or sump. The stuff you have is no different than any other silicone out there.
100% bread doesn't nescessarily have the same makeup as another type of 100% bread.
This is the MSDS sheet for DAP(R) AQUARIUM SILICONE SEALANT CLEAR, 688:

http://www.dap.com/docs/msds/00000688_english.pdf


The are differences in the chemical make-up between them.

[Allmost]

Hmmm, thanks guys,

soooo, still undefined ? I took the advice from some aquarium maker / some Canadian board saying to buy GE silicone ... guess they didnt know what they were talking about ?

I did a search here, and I see many use it with the traditional line of "no ill effects ...." which is tossed around reefing community ALOT ! and has lost its meaning for me ...

now I guess I have to fins a way to get the baffles and silicone out .... ahhh what a waste .

thank you.

[mike810]

use the GE II . that's the one I used. It's for windows and doors and does not protect against microbes which is what you want. If I remember correctly, the bottle was a light brown/tan color.

[Allmost]

use the GE II . that's the one I used. It's for windows and doors and does not protect against microbes which is what you want. If I remember correctly, the bottle was a light brown/tan color.

any info on the silicone that I have used Already ?

I see nothing about microbes protection on the info that has been posted on this page ?

[HighlandReefer]

Is this the exact same product used by the other hobbyists? GE does make quite an assortment of caulks for different purposes. ;)

If it is the same product as used by the other hobbyists and it holds up well under water, then perhaps it is fine. :)

The major concern regarding toxicity (not structure issues) with the various silicone products is if they add anti-mildew and anit-mold products from my understanding. I don't see where any anti-mildew or anit-mold agents are added. The chemicals listed from the best I cant tell (I'm not a chemist) seem to be pretty much non-toxic. The structural issue as to how well this product holds up under water is my main concern.

[Allmost]

thank you cliff,

from my understanding yes, but I Will post a pic of the tube and all info on the DIY page to be sure again :)

so silicone wont be leaching anything out right ? only concern is if it is toxic and kills everything at first instance or it isnt ? I shouldnt be worried about po4 or anything coming out after a while ?

thanks alot :)

PS. HOW do you find all those info yet you arent a chemist ?!!! impressive.

[HighlandReefer]

The information I have used is from various EPA and MSDS sights which provide toxicity information on individual chemicals, at least what is known currently. Many chemicals have not been tested specifically for marine environments and are tested only for human, rat, mice.....etc.

As far as toxic chemicals escaping or phosphate & such from this caulk once it has throughly curred which IIRC is 4-5 days according to the spec sheet noted above, I don't believe you have a concern here. :)

[JTL]

Arguably the best is Momentive RTV 108 or 103 which used to be made by GE until they sold this line to another company. This is a silicone with much better adhesive characteristics but it also has a similiar warning. I am not familiar with the product you used but it may be just fine. I think the products that have mold inhibitors are the ones to avoid.

The warning on our containers is in regards to some hydrolytic stability testing we've done with our adhesives in the past. Technically, RTV silicones start to lose some of their physical elastomeric properties with prolonged submersion in water (specifically tensile strength and elongation percentage). As RTV108 and other materials like it are designed for industrial use, we place that warning to allow end users to know that it may not make a good choice for a long term load bearing adhesive underwater. That being said, small sized aquarium manufacturers have used this material for quite some time without issue, as their use is quite different and on a much smaller scale from what we had in mind when the warning was placed on the package.

So, long story short, don't worry; just allow for the material to fully cure and wash it with potable water before putting it into service and you shouldn't experience any problems. If you have any other questions, please feel free to contact me direct.

[HighlandReefer]

I might add that all the chemicals listed and their concentrations have been approved for applications where there is to be food contact like in restruants, kitchens......etc.

When you work with pesticides and their regulations you become quite familiar with these type of questions. :lol:

[jeff@zina.com]

use the GE II

Use GE Silicone I, not II. :)

Jeff