View Full Version : NEWB I Guess
I once had a reef tank back in the day... Since I have been out for a while, I guess I am a NEWB...
Back in the day I had a 55 with a wet/dry + a canister, skimmer about 60 pounds of rock and a very very stable tank... I would clean the wet dry about every 4 monthes and the canister every 4 months (staggered 2 months apart). Now that I am looking to get back into it, people have refugiums and I see comments like " you dont need a wet/dry for a reef aquarium". That in and of itself prompts me to ask some questions...
1) I understand that LR provides biological filtration and my pre filter socks on a sump would provide mechanical filtration. However, how does one cycle a new tank with out killing off any of the nice critters such as clams that are grown into the LR... Am I to buy dried rock and use that to cycle the tank and then add the nice expensive LR in after it cycles? I see all sorts of photos and video logs of guys filling up their new tanks with LR on day one...Back in my day, that was a sure fire way to make LR into a cheap base rock...We never added it until after the tank cycles and thus we needed a wet/dry...
2)Since I am starting from scratch, I am looking for a 60 to 90 gallon system. Preferably a bow front. I have spent weeks online and every place that sells bow front tanks does not list the cost of the stand and hood. I needed to contact them to get a quote. Before you know it you are over $4k.... Also, I have found that when a manufacturer says "reef ready" that is a fancy term for"the corner overflow and plumbing is included... Kind of like in the RC Helicopter world, "Almost Ready To Fly" means "spend another $400 after you buy this"
So other than Red Sea Max and the Current Solana XL, Does anyone sell a turn key system or at least have a web site where I can click a button that add a stand. Or another button that adds a canopy, lighting etc... I know how to use a shopping cart to get it but it is hard to shop around when most companies dont list the price of the stand for the tank I am looking at.
3)Speaking of Red Sea Max, I see comments like "they are expensive"... I must be missing something because whenever I get a quote from a place for everything that the red sea max 250 comes with, I get a $3500-$3500 quote...Granted, I know the pros and cons of that "Built in" set up, but I am just raising the question, of where can I get all that cheaper if that is expensive?
4) So that being said, I am leaning towards the Solana XL 67 although it no longer comes with lighting. I figure after I add the lighting and a skimmer, I am at $1900-$2100 delivered. Has anyone heard anything about their set ups, good or bad?
5) that set up in mind, and looking at my 1st question, am I relying 100% on the LR in the tank for filtration? should I add some to the sump? Not much room in that sump for much of anything? My experience is with wet/dry's so I am unclear about how we shifted from the concept of wet/dry to just completely submerg some bio medium in a bag in a sump...
I need re-education...
Lynnmw1208
02/25/2011, 10:47 AM
I would try Aqueon or Marineland to see what they can order for you. That price you listed seems a little high. Also I have a fish store locally that sells different aquarium packages with stands and everything have you checked out your store at all? A lot of times if they don't have what you want they can order it for you. If you want a complete package and don't care much if it's bow front, marineland has packages at http://www.fosterandsmithaquatics.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=3578+3730+21464&pcatid=21464 comes with just about everything you need to start except substrate and rocks.
As for the live rock/dry rock. What I am doing is getting mostly dry rock because it's cheaper (it's from Bulk Reef Supply) and then supplementing it with live rock. this way the tank will be seeded with the coralline algae and everything
As for filtration, most people use just the live rock and maybe a filter sock on the drains into the sump to catch debris. A good protein skimmer is a must and pumps inside the display tank to keep cyanobacteria from growing and to keep dead spots away. also adding a carbon/GFO reactor will keep the tank water pretty and the phosphates at bay. BRS also has a dual reactor for this or you can get 2 single ones.
good luck with your decision and keep us updated with the progess!! I like to see what others are doing since I am setting up my first tank as well.
I did look at hose tanks but way too big. However they do have a good tank with stand section so I added all the same items to a cart and guess what? $1900 bucks. So I think that red se max is a pretty good deal, but I will likely go with the other or the site you suggested does have a 72 with a stand that I like... add a finter, skimmer and lights and I am ready to go...
Well due to the lack of replies, I may rephrase everything in a new thread...
Having taken a visit to my local aquarium shop. A huge one I might add...I have come to the conclusion that pure filtration with live rock (Berlin Method) will likely run about $750 to $1500 just for the rock. Assuming it is prettu boring rock, I should not need to wory about anything on it dying other than hitch hikers...The rock these days seems to be pretty boring. 10/15 years ago it was all encrusted with clams and other critters. I guess the greener world we live in has resulted in live rock being grown in some warehouse some where...
So not having a spare $1500 to spend on rock after spending between $1700 and $2700 bucks on a set up. I will probably start with a wet/dry (AG Model 3 or 4) and cycle the tank with that and slowly convert it over to a sump after the tank cycles and I can afford to start buying some rock. Those we/dry's whould convert into a nice sump...
Reverend Reefer
03/01/2011, 05:59 PM
seems like you have a bit of cash on hand, i guess the one thing i would ask is how handy are you? the other question i have is, are you more of a DIY type that will modify things to your needs or are the plug and play type?
i wouldn't spend that much money on a tank, seems excessive. my glass 65 gallon only cost me 200$ with a stand at petsmart. i guess if you really want a bowfront or want to spend money on starfire glass, it will definitely cost you a significant amount more. however, if you can find a local fish forum, i bet you will find many retired reefers looking to sell their tanks for a lot less. you might even find a whole system for a grand, lights and everything else included.
lighting is also a huge consideration. don't forget to factor that into your cost analysis.
a good skimmer is also important.
you will also likely want a sump. i have a 30G sump that i built from a used aquarium i found at a garage sale for 20 bucks.
you don't have to buy all live rock. you can buy some live rock to seed the tank, and the rest of the "dead" dry rock will become seeded with the live rock. you can save a lot of money this way (and reduce the ecological impact on natural reefs). i'm not sure why you're getting a 1500$ quote for live rock? seems like a lot to me. again, just doing a quick search on kijiji and i found local retired reefers getting rid of whole 90G systems, with lighting, live rock, and sand for 900$.
whatever you do, if u decide on a sump, make sure the tank you buy is drilled, or have it drilled for next to nothing at LFS.
i would not recommend the wet/dry filtration setup.
Thanks for the reply. Not that I have the cash on hand but thats what credit cards are for...
well that $200 deal at pet smart is not my liking in a stand. Foe me it myst match my other furniture and have a matching canopy. I chalange anyone to send me a link to any tank between 60 and 90 gallons in any shape that is under a grand. To give you an idea on what king of stand and canopy wouldpast the test is the perfecto Manterey (black) or any stand with raised panel doors. between $500 and $700 just for the stand.
I am leaning away from the bow front just because no one caried stands and canopies other than acrylic which is way to modern looking for myliving room. Most of the slated front door stands are cheap enough but if I had a more country looking living room they would fit.
Qubes seem to be fairly popular and thus cheaper. 24X24X24 60G would work nice. Clear for life with an overflow is about $800 just for the tank. They make a black MDF stand on Amazon that would work. Not qyuite the raised panel style but would probably work.
at $10.00 a pound locally, and between 75 and 150 50 punds (based on the 72 gallon bow front) thats between $750 and $1500.
With rock, the just-as-good economy method: get dry aragonite sand; get 90% holey limestone rock, as holey as you can get, or manmade from a company like marco (our sponsors list)---and add 10% live rock---Fiji is good. Lay down eggcrate lighting grid to prevent point load on your bottom glass, lay down your dry rock and sand (washing both very thoroughly in ro/di water, then filling with ro/di based salt water), add your last 10% rock, and settle in for a 12 week cycle instead of 4, but having a lot more cash in your pocket.
I come from the same period and was sent home with a reef ready, a batch of unlabled pipes and hoses and a 'good luck.'
I hadn't found this site yet. Rejoice! Up in the stickies atop this forum, we have stickies on how to do almost anything, including explanatory stickies that will make more sense to you than to the average bear....
Our tanks now keep large-polyp stony coral effortlessly: I just fragged off a bushel of hammer coral---the stuff grows like mad. All euphyllias are easy; we're getting stuff we never saw, in the day, and it's growing. SPS is possible, but bleeding-edge yet. The stuff we used to nurture---I had to clear green star polyp out of my tank, because it was taking over the side glass in huge sheets and threatening to become invasive of my rockwork.
It's a brave new world out there. Read the stickies in every forum: good as instruction books, and all free.
I'd advise glass if possible, but NO hoods: these tanks run topless because of the heat.
The up-and-coming lighting is LED, which may make hoods possible again, but right now with a 9" separation required between the water and a metal halide light, and several pumps running in the sump (you really need a sump, about 30 gallons for a 55 display) we have a major problem not overheating.
HTH
and <img src="/images/welcome.gif" width="500" height="62"><br><b><i><big><big>To Reef Central</b></i></big></big>
spieszak
03/06/2011, 12:55 PM
I don't know where you are at, but there are tanks on Craiglist all the time here. They aren't always all in one setups, but some are, even including live rock. tax time (right now) is a great time to be watching too, only second to right after Xmas, since it tends to be upgrade time...
Live rock is "cultured" rock, any rock will be live rock given time. Buy cheaper base rock, seed with live.
I've never had a bow front tank, but I do have a tank with rounded corners right now, and a mag float won't clean the corners. PIA in my opinion, for very littel gain.
There's a 440 gallon on my local craigslist right now for an even grand, and it comes with a metal stand you could wrap in anything you wanted (hardwood plywood would work, and it will match your furniture) Reduce/reuse/recycle.. (Or save a butt-load of cash.. however you wanna look at it) You have to bit a bit cautious with used of course, but after buying and stock a 60gal new, then buying and stocking my 30cube and 75long used, I have to say, unless I have very specific requirements, I won't be looking at new tanks again. The money saved on the tank made it much easier to buy better equipment.
Gents, thanks for the replies... I have been looking at craigs list and ebay. There are several great deals but some are huge for my 2X6 floor framing. Good thing I have a closet underneath so I can add two headers to help support the tank... I am looking every day for a used set up while I continue my research...
My wife is leaning towards a 60g cube so the 30 gallon sump is going to require me to use that closet in the basement for my sump. Guess I am going to need a bigger pump to handle the extra tubing...
I am still trying to talk her out of the canopy but I am not having much luck. Clear-For-life has a 60g cube and a stand/canopy butb it is mdf... Not a big fan of mdf for anything dealing with water... The stand and canopy are available on amazon so the return policy is pretty good. They dont sell the cube with the overflow, only the built in filtration.
glass cages is cheap on their stands and canopies but I wonder if they have the same quality control issues on their stands and canopies that everyone is warning about on their tanks... Not quite sure if I want to deal with meeting some guys cousin in the parking lot of a taco bell to get my tank either. I am not quite sure why they just dont ship the stuff like everyone else and offer their "meet me at the parking lot" delivery service for people who want to save a few bucks.
Chris27
03/07/2011, 01:29 PM
Not that I'm suggesting you pay retail for everything, but my advice is to tread lightly when it comes to used equipment, it's rarely as good as folks on here make it out to be. Before rogering up to buy someone's "55 gallon established reef" do a little sleuthing to figure out why it's for sale? 90% of the time it was neglected....last thing you want is to start off with someone else's project gone bad.
Not that I'm suggesting you pay retail for everything, but my advice is to tread lightly when it comes to used equipment, it's rarely as good as folks on here make it out to be. Before rogering up to buy someone's "55 gallon established reef" do a little sleuthing to figure out why it's for sale? 90% of the time it was neglected....last thing you want is to start off with someone else's project gone bad.
I hear ya. Most of the acrylic crap is full of spider cracks. encrusted and needs a lot of work...
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