Controller Confusion

[b_s_c1]

I am shoping around for a controller and have a few questions. First of all I am looking for something that will controll temp, LEDs, top off, and have the ability for ph, and other probes in the future.

I think the ReefKeeper Lite + SL1 Expansion Unit w/ FREE pH Probe will work but am not 100% sure it will suit all my needs.

The LED fixture has four Mean Well Drivers , ELN-60-48D and will need to be fully controlled by the controller.

The ATO will be feed straight from my RO unit. I know this is not recommended but am limited on space and this will help out. There will be two floats that will power solenoids and a float valve for added safety. The solenoids will also be backed up by timers from the controller. So the controller must have room for two inputs for the signal from the float switch and two outputs for the solenoids.

The temp will control one heater and one fan.

As always room to expand the controller is needed.

[b_s_c1]

After doing a little more reasearch I came up with list below. Can anyone give me a confirmation that this will do everything that I am needing it to do.

ReefKeeper ALC Dimmable T5 & Aqua Illumination LED Controller - Digital Aquatics

ReefKeeper Lite L3 PLUS - Digital Aquatics

Dual Bracket ReefKeeper Float Switch Kit - Digital Aquatics

[b_s_c1]

Bump.

Don't mean to be impatient but I would like to get one ordered sometime today. My tank will be finished cycling at the end of next week so I would like to have it in and set up by that time.

[austin93]

I realize this isn't a choice, but I love my apex. Much easier than the rkl I had before and more powerful. Its very handy using a web based interface instead of the actual controller. I got 8 outlets, web, tunze and led control, and am not looking back. Rk stuff does look better.

[b_s_c1]

I realize this isn't a choice, but I love my apex. Much easier than the rkl I had before and more powerful. Its very handy using a web based interface instead of the actual controller. I got 8 outlets, web, tunze and led control, and am not looking back. Rk stuff does look better.

Thanks but I think I will stick with the RKL. Just want to make sure the equipment listed will do everything I need it to do or if I need to add something to the list.

[jlaudiofreak]

I to was trying to decide on which controller to get. After several weeks reading and researching I went with the Apex. It has a much more stable firmware. 100 time more upgradable and it is very easy to program .

[sbabs]

I to was trying to decide on which controller to get. After several weeks reading and researching I went with the Apex. It has a much more stable firmware. 100 time more upgradable and it is very easy to program .

Man it costs so much though. Is it really worth the difference? Everything in this addiction, I mean hobby, is so dang expensive!

[jlaudiofreak]

Sbads
If you realy look at what all the APEX comes standard with , such as built in net extra for RK, 8 outlet strip not like RK with only 4 thats just to start .It would cost you more to buy a RK that is equal to a base Apex Lite . Apex has Great Cust service RK crappy cust service. Thats just my 2cents after all the research I did.

[JayVIP]

I run the ReefKeeper and I control everything with it from fans when over heating, to heater control, lighting via my ALC, my ATO, skimmer, wavemakers, you name it. I'm happy with it even though i spent a lot of money on everything. I have a ph probe and temp probe. I got that same package from marine depot for 189. think there is still a coupon code to get it.

[b_s_c1]

Ok. Getting a little of track. I am looking for some advice on if the equipment list I have above will do everything I need it to do. I just want to make sure so I don't get it in and realize I need to order something else. The add ons have me a little confused on what they do.

[Shard]

Yes, your parts list will mostly do what you want, If I understand your list correctly.

You say RKL L3 Plus. I assume you mean the RKL Plus package WITHOUT the Net module. In this case, yes you would have room to add the ALC module, but your setup would be maxed out then, no more expansion allowed because you would have 4 modules. To expand in the future you will have to upgrade to the RKE headunit for $150-200, THEN buy your other expansion modules.

Anyway, back to the setup.... You can have the solenoids both triggered together, or seperate, depending on the state of one or both of the float switches in the setup. There are only two switch inputs on SL1 module, so you could hook up both float switches, but the float valve would have to be manual. I assume that is what you are trying to accomplish, correct?

With the ALC, you will have two channels for LED dimming/control, not 4, so you would have to pair up the drivers. You will put two meanwells on each channel, one channel for blues, the other for whites.

If you want my honest opinion, I have/own/use/used the RK2, RKL, RKE and Apex. The Apex is by far the superior product. I originally bought the RKE for my main system, and after over $1500 invested, I couldn't take the bugs and failures anymore, so I switched to the Apex. Best decision I made for my reef ever. It may cost a few dollars more for the initial investment, but you get more features in both hardware and software for your money, and future expansion is more cost effective (read: cost less to expand the Apex than the RKE/RKL products).

Anyway... if you have any more questions, I will be happy to answer.

Hope this helps,
Landon

[b_s_c1]

Thanks Landon

Everthing you said is correct and is exactly what I am trying to achieve. The only othe thing I would add is a couple of doseing pumps in the near future.

As of now I am not interested in the net module but things can change and I would like to know that it is an option to add later down the road.

Do you mind elaborating on the problems you had with your unit.

[Shard]

Do you mind elaborating on the problems you had with your unit.

I am not sure I have enough time to go over all of them. I had quite a few.

Just a few of the ones I experienced here..

I had two SL1 units in the same system at one point. Because the probe ports on the SL1 are not galvanically isolated, when you place two in the same system you can get interference between two pH probes. It makes the reading values unreliable and flaky.

Thinking of firmware/software issues... that list could go on for quite a while. The most glaring issue I had was with the system randomly shutting down/off and not following the programming properly. For me this was the scariest, because the system was effectively undependable/unreliable. I did not know if was going to come home to tank full of dead stuff because my return decided to randomly shut off while I was gone. This problem stemmed from two causes, I think one was bugs in the firmware, but occasionally, the head unit would loose communication to other modules, and at the time there was no way to set the fallback status for the outlets, so they just defaulted to off.

Firmware updating was and still is a pain, because you have to disassemble the system and update each module, individually, one at a time, from a computer. Sometimes the firmware updates wouldn't take, and you had to reflash a few more times to get it to work. Updating the NET module was tricky, because you had to update two different files, a bin file, and a web file, and there were no easily found instructions for this on the DA website. Then one of their updates for the NET module actually made the module not function, because their web space file was broken.

Generally, the largest issues I had with the unit, was reliability. The sheer number of bugs and quirks with the system made me loose faith in it's ability to protect my system. In my view, a controller is supposed to be a 'insurance' policy for a tank. It is meant to help protect it from failures. I guess the easiest way to put it, is the unit seemed more like a liability to me after all the trouble.

I also got kind of fed up with DA promising new modules and software features, then constantly delaying and failing to produce results, at least in a timely fashion. But that is more in relation to comparing it to other options instead of something internal to the product. For example, I patiently waited for almost a year for them to add remote programming, a feature the Apex had in 2009 at launch. It is 2011 and remote programming capability is still not an option with the RKE. In general it seems like the RKE is constantly lagging behind the Apex in both hardware and software features, and I just got tired of waiting for it to catch up. Something it still hasn't done. The delays from DA became almost legendary in how dependable they were at being UNdependable. This really is another issue I don't want to get started on.... Then there were all the customer service issues, but I really don't want to start on those either.

All this being said. Any controller is better than no controller, and the RKE is more stable now than it has been in the past. I still think the Apex is more reliable, stable, has less bugs, and more 'bang for your buck' when it comes to hardware/software features and options, but that doesn't mean the RKE/RKL line will not work for someone. It all depends on what you want/expect out of a product, or the specific application you are using it for. If you really want to research some more, there are tons of threads that cover all this, just do a search. You will find days worth of reading, more than you could ever want.

Hope this helps,
Landon

[b_s_c1]

Ok. The main reason I was looking for a controller was for the LEDs and after what I have read about the rkl is it does not provide a true 10v if two drivers are connected to the same channel so could I add a second module?

Like I said the main reason I am looking for one is for the fixture and I figured since I am going to get one why not have it do everything I need it to do.

The reefkeeper is starting to scare me a little but I need to get one ordered so I can hook it up to my lighting and transfer livestock this weekend. I am short on time buy will gave to try to get a parts list together for the apex to get a price.

Thanks for your help

[Shard]

Ok. The main reason I was looking for a controller was for the LEDs and after what I have read about the rkl is it does not provide a true 10v if two drivers are connected to the same channel so could I add a second module?


I am not sure if you can put two drivers on one channel. I never tried. There is not much power coming from the ALC, and the meanwells do depend on external power for their dimming circuits. Read others experience on this one, or check out the datasheet.

As for adding a second module, that would not be possible with the RKL Plus. Remember the RKL is limited to 4 modules. The RKL plus package includes 2 x PC4 modules and 1 x SL1 module, for a total of 3. Add in one ALC and you are maxed out at 4. A second ALC would require the $150-200 upgrade to the RKE on top of the cost of the second ALC, or just start with the RKE anyway.


The reefkeeper is starting to scare me a little but I need to get one ordered so I can hook it up to my lighting and transfer livestock this weekend. I am short on time buy will gave to try to get a parts list together for the apex to get a price.


Well.. here are some estimate comparisons....
-----------------------
If you could get by with 1 ALC and the RKL Plus package, no future expansion needed.
RKL Plus - $280
ALC module - $80
Total: $360

That package would give you:
8 outlets
1 pH port + probe
1 ORP port
2 Switch inputs
2 dimming channels
-----------------------

If you needed the second ALC for a 5 module total.... and allowing for future expansion.
RKE Plus - $400
ALC x 2 - $160
Total: $560

That package would give you:
8 outlets
1 pH port + probe
1 ORP port
2 Switch inputs
4 dimming channels
-------------------------------

An Apex package:
Apex package w/ Standard pH probe - $490

That package would give you:
8 outlets
1 pH port + probe
1 pH/ORP port (2nd port, can be either)
6 switch inputs
4 VSP channels (dimming LEDs)
1 Ethernet port (networking, web interface)
1 backup power port (can detect power outage, and then email)
------------------------

Realistically, the Apex gets you more for your money if it comes down to RKE vs Apex. You would spend $70 less and get 4 more switch inputs, networking, power/battery backup, and a dual purpose probe port.

However, as you can see, if you could get by with just the RKL plus and one ALC, you would come in $130 cheaper than the Apex package (albeit with a lot less features), and $200 cheaper than the RKE package.

If you have any more questions, let me know.

Hope this helps,
Landon

[DaveMorris]

Another question you need to address is what probes are you interested in? The SL1 only does one ph, one temp, and one ORP probe. (Along with two switch inputs) The SL2 has one ph, one temp, and one salinity probe (along with two switch inputs). The SL2 does not come as part of a package so if that is the module you would want to get salinity over ORP as well as electrically isolated probes, then you are better served by piecing it together based off of a RKL Lite and adding modules as you need them. Landon has hit on many of the concerns people have had and I would say that most of his concerns have been addressed at this point. No controller is perfect and 100% without problems, but you are approaching your purchase the right way by researching it first.

You may also want to check out the Neptune forum here on RC and the Digital Aquatics forum on their site to see what others are dealing with.

[b_s_c1]

Thanks for the input. The main purpose for the controller is the LEDs, topoff, timers, and temp. I can do without the rest for now but would like the ability to add to it if my needs ever change.

[The Grim Reefer]

I wouldn't touch reefkeeper products, PERIOD. I have one that never has worked right as far as I can't tell from the pathetic manual they include with the thing and the display finally went out Friday. Still trying to get an e mail back from them to see if there is another way to reset the thing. They give you about half a manual with the thing (Elite) then expect you to join their forum to get a simple question answered.

[jmchzn123]

Funny thing I just bought my first controller. I did all my research first apart from RC. Got some education THEN came on here and confirmed my research. Apex will be here this week. What I love about RC in general is the whole forum makes much more sense when I do diligence with what ever project I'm involved with. Then when I get here I understand what people are saying and can make an informed decision. So far EVERY move I have made in 10 yrs of reef keeping I checked here and found support and or confirmation that what I wanted to do was going to work. Every once in a while RC has a collective warning of a product, vendor or even animal to stay away. A few times I didn't listen and paid the price. I know now there is a huge difference between threads stating use skimmer a vs skimmer b and threads that say DONT use skimmer c! Skimmer c stinks. One thread is a shared opinion of things that work for that person the other is a flat out warning. Now when I see consistently poor reviews of anything I pay attention and not the price! Thanks RC..... BTW I don't even have the Apex yet but had a question so I emailed them and they got back to me in 24 hrs..........just saying

[b_s_c1]

Thanks everyone for your input. After carefull consideration I went another way. I ordered a Reef Angel unit. I was about to order an Apex until I learned about the Reef Angel. It was a couple of hundred dollars cheaper but that was not the decideing factor. I mean whats a few hundred dollars when I already spent around three thousand on this tank. The Reef Angel comes with everything need including preloaded codes and was built by an RC member. Why not give one of our own our support and while doing it get a very good product. The customer service was outstanding and many help enginees for the controller. All the reviews I read on it were good so I feel I made the correct decission. Although it is a newer controller I feel it has cought up to the field very fast and see it being and industry leader very soon at half the cost of other brands.

The only down fall is that it would not controll my 48D drivers. O well I need to place another order with Rapid Led so I just added 4 48P drivers to the list.

Once again thanks.

I dont want to bash any products but I can say that I found the statements about DA's customer service to be true.

[Reefnut2010]

I've never had a problem with DA. When I needed help, I called and they gave me the answers. When not available, they always returned my calls promptly. Surely Apex is a better controller, but the RKL is a good starting point for reefers on a budget. JM2C !!

[Shard]

I ordered a Reef Angel unit. I was about to order an Apex until I learned about the Reef Angel.

Although it is a newer controller I feel it has cought up to the field very fast and see it being and industry leader very soon at half the cost of other brands.


I am considering ordering a ReefAngel to play with. I would not say it has "caught up to the field" yet though. It still lacks a lot of basic features that the other commercial controllers feature. You have to reload the entire firmware to change outlet setups and such, you can't just do it by clicking a few buttons, there are also no third party control options, and limited modules/probes. It really is limited in comparison to the others, as it is more for computer hackers who like to program their own stuff. However, good luck with the choice, as I may have one to toy with soon as well. The Apex is still far superior to it, but I do like the Open Source component of the product. It has great potential, and I do hope it lives up to it and eventually catches up with the commercial offerings in quality.

This thread provides some good reading on it:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1950818


I dont want to bash any products but I can say that I found the statements about DA's customer service to be true.

Preaching to the choir on this one :)

I also found the thread of the DA forum that discusses the ALC not having enough current to drive the meanwells.....
http://www.forum.digitalaquatics.com/viewtopic.php?f=21&t=7448&st=0&sk=t&sd=a&hilit=ALC+circuit
It appears without some hardware modification the unit can only drive one Meanwell effectively.

On that note, I saw somewhere that someone was driving multiple meanwells with a single Apex VSP port. Yet again the Apex is superior to the RKE.


Anyway... Great to see you took the controller plunge! Like I say, any controller is better than no controller. You will soon be wondering how you ever thought of managing a tank without one.

Landon

[b_s_c1]

As far as saying it cought up I guess I should have stated that I was only looking at certain functions. I have no need to monitor salinity or orp so that was not an issue. As far as some of the other probes I see no need for continuous monitoring.

I must have missed the fact that the firmware needed to be reloaded to change plug config but don't really see a problem with this. From what I have seen the program looks simple enough and should be fairly easy to work with.