Part A and Part B die off

[tinyfish]

I had a large number of fish and livestock die off.

In one tank I used a Part A and Part B and ended up killing a Potter's Angel, masked goby 2, 2 blue porcelain crabs. Also dieing was a fish from a LFS that developed wounds due to being netted against the glass when purchased.

I was beginning to think I might understand about water chemistry and fish keeping and then this happened and now I feel like WTH.

I am considering doing a water change on all my tanks but do not know how much water to change out to get my tanks back to livable. The parameters are all fine now as I think it was the dosing shock that killed them.

So how much water to change out? as a percentage.

[ludiNano]

How long was system running before fish were added?

how fast was your cal/ alk dropping inbetween dosing?

what were your parameters when fish were dieing?

how much 2 part were u dosing and what brand?

Is this mixed a reef setup?

[tinyfish]

System running since March 2010.
6 months for last fish add.
20g system
Ca=380 after one month before dosing
Alk= 2.6 after one month before dosing
Kent brand for Nano tanks
Used 10ml for part B last dose which brought it up to 410 and 3.0.
This was a mixed reef: fish, crabs, snails, plants, corals mostly zoanthids

[jdyer88]

I'm not really sure how it would affect the fish but your alk was way low. For tanks that size you might consider a small kalk drip to stabilize alk and cal instead of two part. Or even more frequent water changes might keep your params in line

If you go with two part make sure you dose cal and alk at the same time...you said you dosed only part B in your last post.

[Toddrtrex]

I'm not really sure how it would affect the fish but your alk was way low. For tanks that size you might consider a small kalk drip to stabilize alk and cal instead of two part. Or even more frequent water changes might keep your params in line

If you go with two part make sure you dose cal and alk at the same time...you said you dosed only part B in your last post.

The Alk levels might be fine, need to know the unit of measure -- if it was meq/l, then those numbers are fine -- I shoot for 3 meq/l for my tanks.

[jdyer88]

The Alk levels might be fine, need to know the unit of measure -- if it was meq/l, then those numbers are fine -- I shoot for 3 meq/l for my tanks.

good point, didn't even think of that

[reeftivo]

lots of info missing!

Sg?
Alk is too low (2.6?=7.28dkh). Should be around 3.21 (9).

pH? low alk = large pH swings

You mention a large fish die off. Small tank! How many fish?

If a reactor or kalk dosing is not in the future for you, then look into ESV B-Ionic Ca system for dosing. I've had great success using ESV. I have an MRC Ca reactor but for my small system ESV works fine.

The seperate components of two parts should not be used to bump up perameters separately. They contain a variety of other trace compounds in addition to the Ca and alk so you will be adding more of those components and throwing off the ionic balance of the system. If you need to bump up perams then use a calcium only supp or alk supplement without the added elements and buffers that are in two parts.

Re: water changes. 5 % to 10% weekly is fine depending on bioload. Lots of animals-10%

Tivo

[chuckreef]

Did any corals die?

[seapug]

The only thing I can imagine would cause the death of fish and inverts using a 2 part supplement is an overdose of the buffer component causing a pH spike or a general rise in chlorinity due to overdosing a tank with low evap. rate.

can you walk us through exactly how you got to the point where you did the last dose and fish started dying? How much of each part were you adding each day and how many days were you doing that?

[tinyfish]

I have been dosing on this and all my other tanks single parameter doses that I have test kits for.

My Ph is always low no mater if Alk is at 3.30 or not. That translates to 8-9 for the other measurement.

Salinity always remains at 1.025. Ph is always 7.8 (I just got a new test kit today that should tell me whether my old test kit was bad or not.)

I dosed both Part A and Part B 10 ml which I think now was too much. I was trying something different other than dosing Ca and Buffer individually.

I don't think I will use the 2 Part system as there are other trace elements being dosed. And I will go back to individual parameter dosing.

No corals died. They did close up but then opened the next day just as after any dosing.

[ludiNano]

Two part a much better method rather than trying to maintain levels individualy. It provides a balanced addition of calcium and alk. If you does individually than to much calcium can bring down alk and visversa. If u don't have many Lps or Sps than you shouldn't need to dose very much.

What about ur nitrate phos. Nitrite amon. Mag levels?

Low mag can play with ph levels too.

[seapug]

I think you just overdosed the 2 part (buffer portion specifically) and caused a pH spike that stressed your livestock. 10 ml of each/day on a 20 gallon tank is quite a lot. I have a 100 gallon system densely with clams and many stony corals that only gets 40 ml of each/day.

[tinyfish]

Nitrate=2
Nitrite=0
Ammonia=0

I just tested Ph with my new test kits and both report that my water is actually 8.2 where the old one read 7.8.

This is a sea grass tank with 1" Miracle Mud under 3" aragonite. There is not much fluctuation of parameters from day to day, even week to week.

I know the 2 part solution seems like it would be better but this makes twice now that this has happened to me. I did something wrong and I don't want to do it again.

[reeftivo]

what's your pH in the early a.m. (lights off)?

[eric@tampa]

I dose B-ionic A & B @5ml for my 34gal Solana, 10ml for a 20g sounds a bit much...test and test often till you get it dialed in.Good luck,Eric

[tinyfish]

Ph =8.3

I had two sps frags in the tank because it has a MH light. Both lost coloration.

Now, in the tank next to this one a 29g, all my coral lost coloration and diminished in size. On some of the zoanthid frags the polyps have disappeared. I was away for two weeks and guess my parameters did not hold as well as I thought they might. I did have a service to keep the water level steady and there are no fish in either tank.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Two part solutions are normally very good products, and I'm not sure I'd blame this one without knowing more.

What brand?

If you used B-ionic, 10 ml of the alkalinity portion in a 20 gallon tank will instantly boost pH by maybe 0.5 pH units. That sounds like a lot, but I doubt that is enough to kill healthy fish. If there is any ammonia, however, it will make it a lot more toxic.