Dinos or cyano - pics included!!!

[b0bab0ey]

Two pics included. One is of my back glass where I've got this green algae with bubbles growing in it. The other is on a rock - it's a brown fuzzy algae. (You can see the bubble stuff in upper right hand corner.)

With my luck lately, I wouldn't be surprised if I don't have *BOTH* dinos AND cyano.

[dianezoo]

Looks like dinos,to me is this a faily new tank?

[b0bab0ey]

Looks like dinos,to me is this a faily new tank?

Yup, only 4 months old. After closer inspection, the stuff on the rocks is green algae w/ bubbles as well. It's all near the top of the tank (near the lights) - nothing from the mid-level down.

[cody6766]

It's hard to tell, but it looks more like dinos to me too. Does it go away at night? Dinos will almost disappear until the lights have been on a short while. Also, they're hell's scourge. I'm fighting them currently.

[b0bab0ey]

c'mon guys, I even included pics, not just some vague description

I'm ready to start battling this, I just need to know what I'm battling.

[NaH2Ofreak]

Do you happen to use H2Ocean salt? Just wondering.

Dennis

[b0bab0ey]

I use Instant Ocean. Thinking of switching to either Reef Crystals or Oceanic when my IO runs out.

[NaH2Ofreak]

Well, that rules out the salt. I think a reactor with rowaphos is in your future.

Dennis

[NaH2Ofreak]

Oh and also for an Id, I would say you have both cyano and diatoms. I dont think I see any dinos.

Dennis

[b0bab0ey]

Oh and also for an Id, I would say you have both cyano and diatoms. I dont think I see any dinos.

Dennis

I have one of those "Two Little Fishies" Phosban Reactors that I'm running GFO from BRS in. Thanks for the id. I'm starting another 3-day lights out period starting tonight. I even taped black garbage bags all around the tank to be sure to keep out all light. Cyano and diatoms I can deal with... dinos might be the end of my return to this hobby.

[dianezoo]

bObabOey a tank 4 months old I'd agree with Dennis - hope it is diatoms and when they eat up al the silicates they should die off themselves (Chem clean might take out the cyano). As for dinos, man that has all but destroyed my once beautiful tank. So I'm with you there. For the Dinos and if you have that we are both struggleing and need help so: this is what Im dong- (I'd also be interested if your lights out get it resolved).
Water changes and siphoning out the stuff didnt do anything on my 90 gal. I use ro water and the source water checks out fine. I feed VERY light as my tank only has 3 very small fish. CUC is 6 hermits, 2 larg turbos, the tiger pistol shrimp keeps gravel turned. (I could use more CUC, but that isnt the whole answer to this problem.)
taking rocks out and scrubbing - onlylooked better for a short while.
The water tests always came back good (from multiple sorces) except Magnesium and Calcium. My reading are: CA 360, MAG 1170, PO 4 0.25, No3 5.0, Ph 8.
I have used Phos pads, and no change. My water never looks clear and the stuff is VERY discouraging. my tank is 7 years old, odly there is no hair algea either. I am currently doseing Mag and Cal to see if that will work. (This has been going on for me since October!) very discouraging

[b0bab0ey]

bObabOey a tank 4 months old I'd agree with Dennis - hope it is diatoms and when they eat up al the silicates they should die off themselves (Chem clean might take out the cyano). As for dinos, man that has all but destroyed my once beautiful tank. So I'm with you there. For the Dinos and if you have that we are both struggleing and need help so: this is what Im dong- (I'd also be interested if your lights out get it resolved).
Water changes and siphoning out the stuff didnt do anything on my 90 gal. I use ro water and the source water checks out fine. I feed VERY light as my tank only has 3 very small fish. CUC is 6 hermits, 2 larg turbos, the tiger pistol shrimp keeps gravel turned. (I could use more CUC, but that isnt the whole answer to this problem.)
taking rocks out and scrubbing - onlylooked better for a short while.
The water tests always came back good (from multiple sorces) except Magnesium and Calcium. My reading are: CA 360, MAG 1170, PO 4 0.25, No3 5.0, Ph 8.
I have used Phos pads, and no change. My water never looks clear and the stuff is VERY discouraging. my tank is 7 years old, odly there is no hair algea either. I am currently doseing Mag and Cal to see if that will work. (This has been going on for me since October!) very discouraging

diane, I will post back to this thread when I turn the lights back on and let you know the outcome

There are some pretty good threads I've read about dinos on here, so check these out:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1619925&highlight=dinoflagellates

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1941364&highlight=dinoflagellates

[jdyer88]

bObabOey a tank 4 months old I'd agree with Dennis - hope it is diatoms and when they eat up al the silicates they should die off themselves (Chem clean might take out the cyano). As for dinos, man that has all but destroyed my once beautiful tank. So I'm with you there. For the Dinos and if you have that we are both struggleing and need help so: this is what Im dong- (I'd also be interested if your lights out get it resolved).
Water changes and siphoning out the stuff didnt do anything on my 90 gal. I use ro water and the source water checks out fine. I feed VERY light as my tank only has 3 very small fish. CUC is 6 hermits, 2 larg turbos, the tiger pistol shrimp keeps gravel turned. (I could use more CUC, but that isnt the whole answer to this problem.)
taking rocks out and scrubbing - onlylooked better for a short while.
The water tests always came back good (from multiple sorces) except Magnesium and Calcium. My reading are: CA 360, MAG 1170, PO 4 0.25, No3 5.0, Ph 8.
I have used Phos pads, and no change. My water never looks clear and the stuff is VERY discouraging. my tank is 7 years old, odly there is no hair algea either. I am currently doseing Mag and Cal to see if that will work. (This has been going on for me since October!) very discouraging

your calcium and mag are low, but not crazy rediculous low. How long do you leave the phos pads in. They begin to leach phosphates back into the water after about 48 hours of use, so its best to run them for a max of 36 hours, then remove them......

to both the op and dianezoo, have you tested your water for metal content?

[b0bab0ey]

How does one test for metal content? Other than copper I mean?

[dianezoo]

your calcium and mag are low, but not crazy rediculous low. How long do you leave the phos pads in. They begin to leach phosphates back into the water after about 48 hours of use, so its best to run them for a max of 36 hours, then remove them......

to both the op and dianezoo, have you tested your water for metal content?

I'm going to recheck the mag and calc again tomorrow- after I get the dog to the groomer. I just moved my very few corals out to my other tank tonight so I'll start the lights out tomorrow think I'll black out the tank too. Do I need to leave some open area for ambieant light to get in the tank for the few fish? Good point on the phos pads. I need to take the phos pads out sooner than I have been. Ive left them in 5 days. but my phos isnt bad. Not testing for metals. I have also run charcoal, but it dosent do any thing to clear the water either. Op Thanks for the links on the dinos.
Lets hope we both get some positive results.

[b0bab0ey]

So I turned the lights back on just a little while ago - after almost 4 DAYS off. Most of the bubble stuff on the back glass was gone. I was able to blow and suck off the rest. Same goes for the rocks, the stuff was still there but I was now able to either suck or blow it off with a turkey baster. Once it all settles to the bottom, I've got a big water change scheduled. :celeb1:

Protein skimmer didn't do much while the lights were off, probably the least output I've ever seen from it. Dunno, guess I figured the skimmer would export it out of the tank as it died off...

[dianezoo]

bObabOey, I think that sounds like progress. (crossing fingers)
I covered my tank Sun night and uncovered it tonight (Tues) The water is not clear. Theres alot of grey gunk on the sand and all over the rocks like it had a dirt snow, hope its dead dinos! I have two HOB skimmers on my tank and they had been going crazy. So tonight I blew off the rock and scrapped it off the glass and siphoned out some of the "gunk". I decided to does Peroxide. I added 1 ml per 10 gal. (I hated to do it but after searching many threads on it I decided my tank is so bad it cant hurt. I gave me three fish a wee bit of food and the cover is now back on it. Keep fingers crossed!

[b0bab0ey]

bObabOey, I think that sounds like progress. (crossing fingers)
I covered my tank Sun night and uncovered it tonight (Tues) The water is not clear. Theres alot of grey gunk on the sand and all over the rocks like it had a dirt snow, hope its dead dinos! I have two HOB skimmers on my tank and they had been going crazy. So tonight I blew off the rock and scrapped it off the glass and siphoned out some of the "gunk". I decided to does Peroxide. I added 1 ml per 10 gal. (I hated to do it but after searching many threads on it I decided my tank is so bad it cant hurt. I gave me three fish a wee bit of food and the cover is now back on it. Keep fingers crossed!

Do you have any corals? They say to only cover the tank for 3-4 days max once a month if you do.

[cniemira]

If you're fighting dinos, 4 days w/out light probably won't help. I had some dino infested LR on a tank I set up last year and ran it pitch black for over a month. No lights, tank completely covered. Dinos were back a few days later.

I got rid of them by dosing kalkwasser. Killed 'em off it about a week.

[b0bab0ey]

If you're fighting dinos, 4 days w/out light probably won't help. I had some dino infested LR on a tank I set up last year and ran it pitch black for over a month. No lights, tank completely covered. Dinos were back a few days later.

I got rid of them by dosing kalkwasser. Killed 'em off it about a week.

What exactly do you mean? I dose kalkwasser to raise calcium. Did you keep doing it until your pH went to 8.6 or something? I've read conflicting things about whether or not that actually works for killing dinos. It all depends on what kind of dinos you're fighting.

[cody6766]

I keep my dinos in check by dosing h2o2 and by going lights out for a few days. I'm very busy with flight school so that keeps the frustration at bay, but it is a tough and frustrating battle. I'd probably start a new tank with new rock and sand if I didn't have training to keep me tied up. Dinos definitely suck but they've been beaten in the past.

[biecacka]

what does dosing peroxide do?
corey

[cniemira]

Did you keep doing it until your pH went to 8.6 or something?

Exactly. All I can say is that it worked in my case. YMMV, of course. My tank was new at the time, and had no livestock.

[b0bab0ey]

The game plan is to start conservative and if that doesn't work, take more aggressive action until the problem is fixed. I'm starting out with simply 3-4 days lights out per month. If that doesn't get the job done I'll start using chemicals, raising pH, dosing peroxide, vodka, whiskey, whatever. I've seen pics of what dinos ultimately do to most aquariums. I'll tear my tank down and walk away from this hobby for good before I let that happen.

[dianezoo]

The game plan is to start conservative and if that doesn't work, take more aggressive action until the problem is fixed. I'm starting out with simply 3-4 days lights out per month. If that doesn't get the job done I'll start using chemicals, raising pH, dosing peroxide, vodka, whiskey, whatever. I've seen pics of what dinos ultimately do to most aquariums. I'll tear my tank down and walk away from this hobby for good before I let that happen.

I almost walked away when Dinos killed most of my large corals and my tang and hippo it was a major tank crash that never recovered since October. Then I didnt know what it was so I did water changes and cleaning rock like crazy only to find out it was just fueling the dinos. (I thoght I had old tank syndrome, which I believe is realy dinos anyway).
I moved most of surviving frags of coral into a QT tank. So another couple of days of lights out and covering it with black plastic may work for my system. tonight will be day 2 do doesing with peroxide at 1ml per 10 gal. I looked at the skimmers and they arent doing anything today. I put a fiber pad in the hang on filter to help collect the debris floating or hopefully the dead stuff from the water column. It will be discarded as soon as it get brown with gunk. If my water still isnt clear by Fri when I turn the lights back on I will blow stuff off the rocks and siphon off the sandbed, scrape the glass and then Im wonderig if a diatanatious filter would be helpful to clean the water(?).Diane:blown: .

[b0bab0ey]

I almost walked away when Dinos killed most of my large corals and my tang and hippo it was a major tank crash that never recovered since October. Then I didnt know what it was so I did water changes and cleaning rock like crazy only to find out it was just fueling the dinos. (I thoght I had old tank syndrome, which I believe is realy dinos anyway).
I moved most of surviving frags of coral into a QT tank. So another couple of days of lights out and covering it with black plastic may work for my system. tonight will be day 2 do doesing with peroxide at 1ml per 10 gal. I looked at the skimmers and they arent doing anything today. I put a fiber pad in the hang on filter to help collect the debris floating or hopefully the dead stuff from the water column. It will be discarded as soon as it get brown with gunk. If my water still isnt clear by Fri when I turn the lights back on I will blow stuff off the rocks and siphon off the sandbed, scrape the glass and then Im wonderig if a diatanatious filter would be helpful to clean the water(?).Diane:blown: .

Diane, you said in an earlier post that you use RO water. Is that just RO water or RODI water?

My story in a nutshell is I've been doing saltwater since I was 5 years old (I'm 37 now). Dad got me into it. I always was great at it, never had many problems. I did it successfully using under-gravel, wet dry and live rock methods. About 5 years ago I got out when Hurricane Katrina wiped out all of my tanks. I come back, and have had nothing but problems since. Everything that can go wrong has gone wrong for me. It's been a complete and total nightmare...

[dianezoo]

[QUOTE=b0bab0ey;18468290]Diane, you said in an earlier post that you use RO water. Is that just RO water or RODI water?

My story in a nutshell is I've been doing saltwater since I was 5 years old (I'm 37 now). Dad got me into it. I always was great at it, never had many problems. I did it successfully using under-gravel, wet dry and live rock methods. About 5 years ago I got out when Hurricane Katrina wiped out all of my tanks. I come back, and have had I"

Getting through Katrina is tremdous, loosing your tank and comming back to this has got to be uber frustrating. Ive had tanks forever and never anything that has me as ready to quit as this dino issue. Ive moved tanks torn them down and combined them. I even dumped Ameretto coffee creamer into my tank and came out of it fine just managing the problem. But this is very disheartning. OK heres where Im at today. I removed the black plastic covering everything. I must say the water looked clearer than it has, but after blowing off the rocks and the stuff off the back glass the tank is very full of gunk but not as yellowish looking. I am stopping the Kalc and Ca dosing toda (i did that every 3 days I does peroxide 3 days. That ended today. I'm going to vac the sand tomorrow and do a water change and test the water. So I'll be reporting back after that. Oh I buy salt water from the locat FS, and top off water I get from the vending machine its RODI, and from the fish store and also from Arrowhead water that is delievered to our house. I think thats RO DI (when my hubby dosent kick about it). He get mad when I use that water for my fish and tap water for cofee. LOL. wish me luck. crossing fingers....

[dianezoo]

sorry double posted

[b0bab0ey]

Getting through Katrina is tremdous, loosing your tank and comming back to this has got to be uber frustrating. Ive had tanks forever and never anything that has me as ready to quit as this dino issue. Ive moved tanks torn them down and combined them. I even dumped Ameretto coffee creamer into my tank and came out of it fine just managing the problem. But this is very disheartning. OK heres where Im at today. I removed the black plastic covering everything. I must say the water looked clearer than it has, but after blowing off the rocks and the stuff off the back glass the tank is very full of gunk but not as yellowish looking. I am stopping the Kalc and Ca dosing toda (i did that every 3 days I does peroxide 3 days. That ended today. I'm going to vac the sand tomorrow and do a water change and test the water. So I'll be reporting back after that. Oh I buy salt water from the locat FS, and top off water I get from the vending machine its RODI, and from the fish store and also from Arrowhead water that is delievered to our house. I think thats RO DI (when my hubby dosent kick about it). He get mad when I use that water for my fish and tap water for cofee. LOL. wish me luck. crossing fingers....

I've included an "after" pic of my tank so you can see what it looks like now after the 4-days lights out and a couple of massive water changes. I blew/scrubbed the crap all off, siphoned it all out, etc. I should have taken a better overall "before" pic... but most of whatever was on my rocks/glass is gone, for now anyway. It just takes a lot of elbow grease sometimes. My wife and I went on a cruise about a month or so ago, and I had to turn my protein skimmer off for over 2 weeks. My tank looked like a nightmare after that; I had this red stringy slimy junk everywhere..

Btw, have the dinos killed any of your snails or even fish? I read another post that said dinos can release a toxin (especially during the initial outbreak) into the water that can kill kill kill. I lost all of my Astrea snails while I was on vacation.

[dianezoo]

Btw, have the dinos killed any of your snails or even fish? I read another post that said dinos can release a toxin (especially during the initial outbreak) into the water that can kill kill kill. I lost all of my Astrea snails while I was on vacation.

Yes, the dinos, killed all the snails except nysaria snails survived and so did my tigerpistol shrimp and his goby.The corals are heartbreaking to list that died becuse they were all med to large. Frogspawn, mushrooms, digi, birdnest, trumpet, zoos. I have added three turbos and three ninja star astra snails and 1 of each of them died shortly after adding. My iron man inhabiants are the tiger pistol shrimp and his goby and my clown fish and a colt corals, a few zenias also survived (figures).The newest member besides the snails is the sail fin. Doing water changes today, my water looks much clearer but not where I'd like it and crud is stuck everywhere but appears to be dead (hope) will probably have to remove a few rocks to scrub them today also. I'm checking the water before I cloud it up. will post again with results.
Sweet ! your after picture looks excellent! Mines not there yet.

[b0bab0ey]

Yes, the dinos, killed all the snails except nysaria snails survived and so did my tigerpistol shrimp and his goby.The corals are heartbreaking to list that died becuse they were all med to large. Frogspawn, mushrooms, digi, birdnest, trumpet, zoos. I have added three turbos and three ninja star astra snails and 1 of each of them died shortly after adding. My iron man inhabiants are the tiger pistol shrimp and his goby and my clown fish and a colt corals, a few zenias also survived (figures).The newest member besides the snails is the sail fin. Doing water changes today, my water looks much clearer but not where I'd like it and crud is stuck everywhere but appears to be dead (hope) will probably have to remove a few rocks to scrub them today also. I'm checking the water before I cloud it up. will post again with results.
Sweet ! your after picture looks excellent! Mines not there yet.

Good luck! Sounds like it's gonna take a lot of scrubbing and manual removal to get things back in order. When things got really bad in my tank, I would either scrub or blow it off with a turkey baster. And then spend around an hour sucking up as much as I could with the turkey baster before finishing it off with a siphon (water change).

[dianezoo]

http://C:\Users\diane\Pictures\tanks\dinoflaglette 90g 022011.mhthttp://C:\Users\diane\Pictures\tanks\weird marine plant 022011.mhtUp date with before pix. Just before I did the siphoning of the gravel and scraping the rocks and glass here is what the Mag an ca is: Mag from 1170 now at 1320, Pa from 360 to 430. The Pow has started to come up.slighly was 0.25 now a wee more bluish (hard to red it). I ended up rearrainging my rock so now I have open space all behind it and well an in front. (It used to be piled up against the back glass in spots). I can get to now. I did do one more dose of peroxide and I added GFO in a bag in the HOB filter that only contains charcoal. I add floss only when trying to trap debris when I have made everything stirred up then I discard it. Before Note the weird marine plant (?) so far it has survived. I have only seen this in one of my tanks many years ago and never since until now. Also notice the dinos on the overflow box Them come right back

[dianezoo]

I cant get picutures to show. sorry.

[b0bab0ey]

Hey Diane -
Sounds like you got your Mag and Ca straightened out. Did you test for Phosphates and Nitrates, before and after? What are the dinos doing now?

[dianezoo]

BObabOey, Yes the mags and ca came up nicely, but I need to monitor how much they are taken up before continuing the same level of doseing.It's been painfully long process. I'm going to run a full water param test tonight.(Fri). One of my jumbo turbo snails recently added to get a CUC going again, got himshelf stuck in the intake grill of my water pump. I guess it was tasty stuff but after he cleaned it up he couldnt get off it. I discovered him after work & turned off the pump and eventually got him off, but he was dead this AM, feeding the hermits. So I need to see what the other water readings are now especially. Currrently I use a HOB filter with charcoal and I added GFO monday. I have been changing the fiber pad daily as it is used to it to trap all the floating stuff in the water column that the skimmers arent pulling out.ng.
I am STILL seeing the dinos appear back on the skimmer box in my tank shortly after I scrape them off however they are accumulating much less on the glass than before.
Hint - I find a method that is better than the turkey baster to blow off the rock. I attached tubing that fits the output of my maxiject (for water circ in my tank) and i can direct the water movement where I want to blow stuff off (like watering your lawn). That way I dont hve to unfasten the pump from the tank to do this. (as long as I direct it carefully - not up! It's very effective (it really clouds up the water too). All I want is to get to a nice clear tank to enjoy again. Still crossing fingers. (Im going to try to put in a pix again)....http:// IMG00056-20110313-1220.jpg

[dianezoo]

142594 I think I got the pix figured out. Here is what the dinos look like when they took out my digi.
142595 can anyone identify this weird plant? I had some of these years ago never saw them since. Also notice the dinos on the back glass where they came back after it was scraped. This was a few days ago.

[b0bab0ey]

Any way you can post some bigger pics? It's kinda hard to see details.

[dianezoo]

Any way you can post some bigger pics? It's kinda hard to see details. It was taken with my blackberry but let see: everything does look fuzzy even in person, but photos not great.

142629

142630

142631

[b0bab0ey]

Yeah, it is kinda blurry. Doesn't look too bad though. You said the tank has been setup 7-8 years now, right? You ever think about just breaking it down and starting all over again? I don't know if you have another tank to put everything until after it recycles. I know it seems like a lot of work on the front end... but it might save you a lot of work here and there, ya know?

[dianezoo]

Sh.....ush.....I'm pretty certain if I do that Hubby will want it all changed to FW. I have a 125 gal FW tank and he keeps saying see it's beautiful and cost is minimal compared to replacement bulbs, and water and chemicals, fish corals etc etc. (wait til I start using Vodka from his bar. we all know why we are hooked on reefs (FW it's not as interesting or exciting). I may have to start over but this is another experiement to see if it can get back. There has to be a way to get it all back up again. I have dumped a lot of sand out, replaced half the rock. My corals are very few. and Oh this morning I just discovered my QT tank has ick!!!!.so that wont be an option now. Good thing the clown and goby and sailfin are happy in the DT/ Dino tank. I tested the Mag and Ca and they dropped again so Im back to doesing mag and ca. There are only two small fish and saved corals in my QT tank. I had 2 green clown gobys and one Alli damsil in the QT lost one green clown to ick. what next, (now where is that vodka I think I can use some).
Bo Are your dinos gone now?

[SushiGirl]

c'mon guys, I even included pics, not just some vague description

I'm ready to start battling this, I just need to know what I'm battling.

2 people already answered you with the ID. I'll say it too. Dinos.

We've been fighting it since month 4 as well. We cut the light cycle down to 4 hours a day and started using a turkey baster to suck out what we could. It's working very well so far, definitely diminishing. I actually have nothing to suck out anymore, and the bubbles that form after the lights have been on for a while are diminishing greatly. You could probably do a full lights-out for 3 days, but we chose not to do that.

Edit: Somehow I missed that there were 2 pages. Glad to hear the lights-out worked for you.

[b0bab0ey]

Sh.....ush.....I'm pretty certain if I do that Hubby will want it all changed to FW. I have a 125 gal FW tank and he keeps saying see it's beautiful and cost is minimal compared to replacement bulbs, and water and chemicals, fish corals etc etc. (wait til I start using Vodka from his bar. we all know why we are hooked on reefs (FW it's not as interesting or exciting). I may have to start over but this is another experiement to see if it can get back. There has to be a way to get it all back up again. I have dumped a lot of sand out, replaced half the rock. My corals are very few. and Oh this morning I just discovered my QT tank has ick!!!!.so that wont be an option now. Good thing the clown and goby and sailfin are happy in the DT/ Dino tank. I tested the Mag and Ca and they dropped again so Im back to doesing mag and ca. There are only two small fish and saved corals in my QT tank. I had 2 green clown gobys and one Alli damsil in the QT lost one green clown to ick. what next, (now where is that vodka I think I can use some).
Bo Are your dinos gone now?

My "dinos" have evolved into green hair algae. Not much, but it's everywhere the "dinos" were. So, hopefully this is all just part of the new tank syndrome thing... my water hasn't matured enough yet. It's just weird, as I don't remember any of this from the last time I setup a reef.

I bought some snails/hermits to work on the gha, and I'm pulling it here and there as I can. Doing water changes too. So, we'll wait and see what happens next.

[dianezoo]

I added snails and hermits to mine today too. A change I have noticed now is the stuff collectin on the sand is brown now instead of gray. I'm hoping its dead dinos, it now almost looks like diatoms but not quite. Have you seen what appears to be tan or yellowish looking thread shapes that are a quarter in long floating in the water column?Ive noticed these since my problem began. The fish dont eat them and they do not move on their own. I'm thinking probably just hermit crab poop and Im looking for stuff too close. At first I thought it was from my dying corals now gone. Just thought I'd mention it as an observation. I dont recall noticing them before or in the other tank.
Im keeping the GFO in a bag in the HOB and keeping my mag and CA levels up. I hoping that will I'm hoping that will thwart algea from switching places. Although algea is easier to live with for our wet creatures.
My Po4 is just at a trace. a new week begins.... check your water parameters how do they look now?.

[b0bab0ey]

My water parameters are reading fine. Got my salt delivered this AM so pretty soon I need to do another WC, change out GFO, etc.

The little patches of green hair algae are ****ing me off though. I scrub the rocks best I can but it just keeps coming back. Probably the phosphates. My red legs and ceriths won't touch the stuff. Thinking about trying a few astrea. I've read turbos do a good job but I have too many small frags in my tank for them to knock over.

[dianezoo]

I have alea on one zoo rock and the astra, turbo, nija star, nasarius have all ignored it. They do appear to be busy picking on other stuff.The big Mexican turbo is going to town on some other rocks.. I'm getting very fed up with whats going on in my tank though. I did a 5 gal water change last night after blowing crud off the rocks and the glass and siphoned out the rust brown color stuff coving areas of the sand. Well its back again tonight on the sand and a slight film on the glass again and my water looks like dust partcles in stead of clear. This is beyond frustrating. Ive been holding some of my saved corals such as; chalice frags duncans and yumas in my QT tank along with two green clown gobies I planned to move back into my DT tank when its acceptable. But (*& happens. In my QT tank Both green Clown gobies died. I suspect ick but too tiny to tell. My only one fish in QT (with corals) is my alliani Damsil. He dosent look great I dont see spots on him but something is not right. Dinos do not to appear to be a problem in the QT but I think I'd have to move the damsil into yet another tank so this one can be fallow of fish for 8 weeks. grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I dont feel like setting up another (*& tank now. The joy I had with my tanks is now frustration. I was hoping I could declare sucess check out

[dianezoo]

a link with some information. still not pretty. http://www.reef.edu.au/asp_pages/secb.asp?FormNo=8

[b0bab0ey]

My latest battle is gha (green hair algae). Not a real problem yet but just enough to **** me off. I even found a few patches growing on my corals!!! :furious: So I scrubbed it all off using a toothbrush and sucked it all out by doing a WC. Also changed out my gfo. I haven't seen it come back yet...

Tell me more about your tank. What kind of lights? When did you last change the bulbs? Do you use RO/DI H2O? What kind of salt? How much flow do you have? I'd like to help you get to the bottom of what's fueling your dinos if I can.

[dianezoo]

Tell me more about your tank. What kind of lights? When did you last change the bulbs? Do you use RO/DI H2O? What kind of salt? How much flow do you have? I'd like to help you get to the bottom of what's fueling your dinos if I can.
I have t5 lights they are 48 long 6 bulbs (one not working) all bulbs were replaced about 12weeks ago. I buy the LFS made up saltwater (I've been buying 10 -15 gal at a time because I didnt trust my own RO DI unit any more. I also buy RO DI water from the local fish store. They dont have any water problems that I am aware of in there tanks deninately no dinos.
I have GFO recently added. and I change out a filter pad every day from pulling out the brown dino stuff everytime I wipe down the glass or blow off the rocks. I am going to try another black out of the tank this weekend. I read where sometime once isnt enough. Good luck with the algea issue, I also hae a bottle of algea fix on hand becuase I understand it works very well.
I have seen some improvement - My zoos have started to open they have been closed tight since November!

[Helfrichs Chic]

I'm gonna chime in because I just rid my 110 of dinos in about 2 weeks. I actually battled with dinos like 10 years ago and fought for a YEAR before I won. When I saw them this time I almost put a sledgehammer through my system. 10 years ago there was practically NO info on how to get rid of them. I did water change after water change and I think that was the poblem.

Now I think some of the methods (elevated PH, H202) are not necessary. Does it work... yea maybe but I say do the simpler things first. FIRST THING, NO WATER CHANGES! I can not stress this enough. I did 1 18 gallon water change when I first noticed them and they doubled over night. A buddy says he thinks its the trace elements that they are thriving off of. If its on your corals bast with a turkey baster and SKIM WET. IMO manual removal works but only if your recycling the water, once you add new water to make up for what you sucked out, it makes it worse. Lastly I added 6 inches of GFO in a TLF reactor. I also reduced lights to about 5 hours and did one day dark and fed a little less. Good luck, if you catch it early (and thats the KEY) you should be able to get rid of it in a months time.

[dianezoo]

Now I think some of the methods (elevated PH, H202) are not necessary. Does it work... yea maybe but I say do the simpler things first. FIRST THING, NO WATER CHANGES! I can not stress this enough. I did 1 18 gallon water change when I first noticed them and they doubled over night. A buddy says he thinks its the trace elements that they are thriving off of. If its on your corals bast with a turkey baster and SKIM WET. IMO manual removal works but only if your recycling the water, once you add new water to make up for what you sucked out, it makes it worse. Lastly I added 6 inches of GFO in a TLF reactor. I also reduced lights to about 5 hours and did one day dark and fed a little less. Good luck, if you catch it early (and thats the KEY) you should be able to get rid of it in a months time.

This certainly wasnt caught early in my case. See post # 29. It crashed my sytem. So I have to use the same crappy water when I siphon out the dead and dieing brown stuf off the sand. My rocks are blown daily with turkey baster, and the other stuff on the rock wont even budge. What about top off water?

[dianezoo]

I'm still wondering about the top off water, I have to add it..so I guess tht moot, just no new salt water change -rIght?
Well some are still showing up on the glass, and today they look whitebefore the lights go on so I wiped them off. Today I got in there with a tooth brush and brushed all the rocks and made a mess. I am going to to do the lights off and black it out again for two days. I NEED this to work! If i add Brightwells MicroBacter will that help the dyeing stuff (since water changes are a no no) or will it make it worse?

[b0bab0ey]

I don't see how you have any choice about the top-off water, you gotta add it. But if you're using RO/DI freshwater with a TDS of 0, there shouldn't be any trace elements in it to fuel the dinos. I've heard about not doing water changes to combat dinos, seems it's still a matter of some debate. I'm guessing I had cyano because doing w/cs is what ultimately knocked it out.

Also, do you run carbon? And do you have a protein skimmer? I noticed when I had to turn off my skimmer for two weeks (vacation) and stopped using carbon is when all the problems started.

[dianezoo]

I don't see how you have any choice about the top-off water, you gotta add it. But if you're using RO/DI freshwater with a TDS of 0, there shouldn't be any trace elements in it to fuel the dinos. I've heard about not doing water changes to combat dinos, seems it's still a matter of some debate. I'm guessing I had cyano because doing w/cs is what ultimately knocked it out.

Also, do you run carbon? And do you have a protein skimmer? I noticed when I had to turn off my skimmer for two weeks (vacation) and stopped using carbon is when all t problems started.
yes, that was a lame question from me regarding the top off water. See this is making me crazy, and illogical.
I do run carbon, and GFO, I have two protein skimmers. They have been working like crazy. Tonight I just lifted off the black plastic (this is the second attempt that the black out method) This should do the trick. I just turkey basted off all the rocks of dead gray dirty stuff. My three fish were real hungry (I fed them lightly). I noticed that some alage was comming back on my zoo rock however this two days of covering the tank looks like it killed it. So it works on the algae. I am getting the water tested tomorrow again and I'll post the results. By morning I should see if my tank is goingto become clear and the water good and Hopfully the dinos have finally been beaten. My tank is so baren looking now it;s starting over.

[b0bab0ey]

You ever try the elevated pH thing? Supposedly it works on some species of dinos but with others, it actually makes them worse. Here's the article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

[dianezoo]

You ever try the elevated pH thing? Supposedly it works on some species of dinos but with others, it actually makes them worse. Here's the article:

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php

Ok here we go, the water still looks like particals floating in it not clear. After taking off the blackout plastic off from the tank and turning the lights back on I also noticed the pistol shrimp and his goby have excavatied under all rocks which contributes a little to the cloudyness from stirring up sand. But it usually settles out fast. My skimmer is also sending out lots of mico bubbles. but that being said the water should be clearer. and it settles down too. Im thinking of adding water clarifier from Kent to deal with the gray dirt stuff I blow off everything now. (better han the orange/brown.

Here my parameters: Calcium 430, Magnesium 930 (I have no idea what made it go down nothing in the tank to take it up only have two colts and two xenias).?? next ammonia and nitrite are 0, pH 7.8. Salinity is up 1.028 (nor is 1.024). so higher pH might help hope this is getting kicked. Now Im trying to get it looking "clear" . (and pray the dinos are done for).

[b0bab0ey]

I wouldn't worry too much about the mag for now. But I would get that salinity down to 1.026 (slowly) and maybe get your pH above 8.0 (again slowly). You might also wanna check your alk. If it's low too (say, 7-8 dKH), then you can use "baked" (see link below) baking soda to raise both your pH and alk.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1739333&highlight=baked+baking+soda

[dianezoo]

The values I posted were tested by my LFS yesterday.
I just tested my pH and it is 8. I tested KH and it was 5 thats pretty low isnt it? and my salinity currently was at l.024 (swing arm hydrometer but it has us been accurate when compared to the LFS in past).
Thanks for that link (the thread got very confussing so I should just stop at the calulator). Temps got pretty warm today and I handnt had our AC on yet the tank is at 80.
What are you doing with your algae? I only have one spot of short carpet like algea on my zoo rocks, and I noticed I have a nija star astra snail enjoying it so I hope he eats it all. other than that no other algea. I still have those four long vertical growing plants (in that one photo) that I have no idea what they are. they are round and very solid. looks like what calcium is around their base. and they survived both times I went with no lights for two days and blacked out the tank. I have not seen brown crud on glass today. yey.

[b0bab0ey]

I tested KH and it was 5 thats pretty low isnt it?

Yes, 5 is very low. It really shouldn't drop below 7. I like to keep mine between 8-9. This link gives you all your water parameters:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php

What are you doing with your algae?

I've still got spots of gha here and there. I'm battling it with my wife's toothbrush (kidding). I haven't seen any dinos/cyano in over a month now, so fingers crossed. The thing that's driving me crazy now is the detritus all over the sand. I'm constantly sucking it up with a turkey baster! My snails, hermits won't touch it. What will eat detritus off the sand?!

[dianezoo]

Yes, 5 is very low. It really shouldn't drop below 7. I like to keep mine between 8-9. This link gives you all your water parameters:

http://www.reefkeeping.com/issues/2004-05/rhf/index.php



I've still got spots of gha here and there. I'm battling it with my wife's toothbrush (kidding). I haven't seen any dinos/cyano in over a month now, so fingers crossed. The thing that's driving me crazy now is the detritus all over the sand. I'm constantly sucking it up with a turkey baster! My snails, hermits won't touch it. What will eat detritus off the sand?!

Tonga Nassarius Snail will scavange for detritus, Iurchin, cuc, but my guess is its the same "dirt" I have and I think its from the dions dieoff and some deterus. in my tank it just cant all be from fish poop. and I siphon and it always there.

[b0bab0ey]

Everything was going fine and then, boom, stringy looking crap w/bubbles attached to it. I immediately went lights out for another 3 days. Should have taken pics first though...

[dianezoo]

Everything was going fine and then, boom, stringy looking crap w/bubbles attached to it. I immediately went lights out for another 3 days. Should have taken pics first though...

Oh no!! we should know tomorrow how your tank is right? Did anyting else change to make it spike like that? Man I was gonna try a water change but I think Im going to hold off. I still have them but they are white looking probably just exhausted but waiting for whatever to feed them on. I'm not getting the growth on glass and rocks like I did but Im keeping the glass wiped off when just a slight amount starts to show up. Im no fanning the crud that settles in the rocks and creating dust looking water. but It just will not get bright clear, Im changing out a floss pad daily that traps the brownish crud. So far my CUC is doing fine, there is no alage at all in the tank but just the floating dusty dirt-look. Hopfully blacking out your tank again will work. I cany say the peroxide treatment worked or just blacking out the tank becuase I did both. This is getting old huh.:hammer:

[b0bab0ey]

Oh no!! we should know tomorrow how your tank is right? Did anyting else change to make it spike like that? Man I was gonna try a water change but I think Im going to hold off. I still have them but they are white looking probably just exhausted but waiting for whatever to feed them on. I'm not getting the growth on glass and rocks like I did but Im keeping the glass wiped off when just a slight amount starts to show up. Im no fanning the crud that settles in the rocks and creating dust looking water. but It just will not get bright clear, Im changing out a floss pad daily that traps the brownish crud. So far my CUC is doing fine, there is no alage at all in the tank but just the floating dusty dirt-look. Hopfully blacking out your tank again will work. I cany say the peroxide treatment worked or just blacking out the tank becuase I did both. This is getting old huh.:hammer:

Yes, this does suck! I looked in my tank this morning (from above w/a flashlight) and my leathers do not look happy! Oh well, what can I do, right? The lights come back on tomorrow. The way I see it, if I don't do anything about the dinos they will eventually kill all of the corals in the tank anyway.

Your tank sounds like it's getting better. Slowly but surely. Yeah, I think my next tank is just going to be a friggin old-school S/W fish tank with an U/G filter or something. I didn't have all these problems when I just did that and I like the fish better than the corals anyway...

[dianezoo]

bObaboey, Checkin to see how your tank is doing. Im stirring up the dirt off my rock daily and changing out the floss pad every other day now. I ws changing the floss pad daily also but it's seems to be getting better. The skimmers collecttion looks like dark pastey mud sticking to the collection cup. I'm not seeing active dinos, just what I believe is their dieoff particulate matter in the tank. It's no longer settling all over sand like it was. I think I'm back to a tank ready to add coral and possibly a couple of fish again. I added a metalic green, fuzzy mushroom yesterday and it's looking well. I have no algae and Im hoping my CUC especially the large mexican snail dosent starve (I even gave it nori on a clip. I'm going to move my organ pipe back into this tank this weekend,
It's one of the few I saved into a QT tank during the diano disaster. I hope your tank is comming back. I had to black out my tank twice. I'm keeping the mag and cal levels up too. regards
D

[b0bab0ey]

Hi Diane,

My tank is good, not great. The dinos/cyano/whatever was gone after the lights out period. Now it's coming back a little, but only near the top. I need to change out my GFO and Carbon in the next day or two.

Wish we lived closer. I have a big frogspawn that I'm ready to frag off the lower section. I'd give it to ya to help you get re-started. It's doing great in my tank. Sounds like yours is making good progress. Post some pics when you get a chance!

Bobby

[berniegermie]

I've currently battling dinos also. Feel your pain. It was really bad at one point but after a month of battling it it has gotten under control. I still see some of it around the tank so not completely gone yet. I have a mixed reef, SPS, LPS, 5 fish. What has helped me so far was not doing any water changes and reducing the light period to only 5-6 hours a day. I also have Rowaphos in my phosban reactor and been skimming wet. I have cheato in my refugium and if there's any build up of the dinos on my powerheads, I take them out and wash them in RO water. Also got 2 conches and they eat the Dinos without any ill effect. I have also been dosing Kalk in my top off and dosing via the Kalk slurry method to bring my PH up higher but not too high, just around 8.3. I simply focused on keeping my Alk, Ca, and Mag levels at where they should be, (9 dkh, 400, 1350) I also bought a RODI unit.

I tried lights out for 1 day and some of my SPS started to lose saturation in color so I stopped. Not worth losing my corals.

Tomorrow I'm going to buy new MH bulbs and try some Microbacter 7 to see if it will help eliminate the dinos for good. I'm trying to cover all bases. =)

[b0bab0ey]

I tried lights out for 1 day and some of my SPS started to lose saturation in color so I stopped. Not worth losing my corals.

I keep softies, LPS and SPS, and have noticed no ill effects. I go lights-out for 3 consecutive days once a month, every month. I even cover all my glass w/black garbage bags so no ambient light can get in. Now, I admit, the first time I did it my corals looked kinda bad when I first turned the lights back on. Took them almost a week to bounce back. But now they bounce back in a day or two. I dunno... I guess they adapted to it.

Good luck with whatever you decide to do! But doing the lights-out thing once a month has just about solved my dinos problem. See pic below of my tank.

[MUCHO REEF]

A good Dino read from the past.


Mucho Reef

[dianezoo]

Yes, one to remind us why we continue to test the water and dose calk and mag.
and nip it early!.
D