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View Full Version : feedback on sump design and dual return pump


pascal32
03/04/2011, 11:03 PM
I've been helping a friend get his existing system cleaned up. The original system is a gorgeous acrylic 240 gallon bow front and a 125 in the basement with a stock container sump. The new plan is to keep the killer 240 on the 1st floor as is, but change the basement tank to a 180 and move the 125 down as a sump.

Part of this system is to add redundancy - as such the electric is run off two lines and we are looking to "split" the return pumps and heaters. the thought is to run two return pumps - one goes to the left side of both tanks, the other to the right. This way if one goes down or needs to be cleaned the system stays operational.

The "big" question is picking return pumps. We were thinking of aiming for 2.5x per pump to each tank for a total of 5x. this stays within the overflow box capacities. naturally there will be some powerheads in the tank.

The 125 sump (original display) is nice and roomy so we thought of trying to reduce sound by using 4" PVC pipes into which the drains would run. The water pushed up will flow onto a tray and through the filter socks. the hope is that this will reduce noise and make the filter sock changes a bit easier without the pipe (and hopefully less ripped socks!)

Any suggestions on which pumps to go with? general suggestions?

Currently looking at the blueline 70HD and the Reeflo Barracuda (hybrid upgradable to hammerhead)

thanks!

http://img35.imageshack.us/img35/5116/pumps.jpg

http://img191.imageshack.us/img191/65/sumpdetails.jpg

captain7359
03/05/2011, 08:32 PM
I think the barracuda's as a pair would be a bit overkill for the flow you are looking for, but as a single pump they would be perfect for what you're looking for in terms of flow. You could get a ton of flow in the tank with some of the penductors if you wanted to have both pumps. The blueline as well as Iwaki's are solid pumps as well and you might as well throw in Little giants and march pumps if you're looking for reliability. Till you get up into the 5 series pumps the LG & march don't flow as much as the Iwaki's and Blurlines, but are still a good pump.

Being direct drive the reeflo pumps are going to give you a better bang for the buck in terms of energy input and have sequence engineering behind them. A serviceable motor where you can replace the bearings and pump seals is also a plus if you want to save on buying a second pump and just rebuild it every 2-3 years.

slief
03/05/2011, 08:42 PM
Looks great. The one thing that comes to mind is that your not leaving much height for the filter socks. Also, your idea about having the drains flow into tubes is a great idea but I would be concerned about water backing up the pipe and that would create a siphon action that might make noise. Does your fuge overflow into the filter socks? If so, then you will end up filtering out some of the pods you could be growing.

I would move the socks to one end. Have the water drain into a box that servers as a bubble trap. The water could overflow from that box into the socks. I would elevate those socks so you can use deeper ones with more surface space so you dont have to change them over couple days. I use 4 big ones and they last me up to 2 weeks. I would move that fuge downstream of the socks and skimmer.

Here was my design. You can see the boxes that the water drains into from the main tank. There are 2 of them and each box flows into 2 socks. There are 2 drains from my tank.
I realize that you are probably working with some space constraints but maybe this will give you some other ideas.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Both-sumps.jpg

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Sumpfinished1.jpg

pascal32
03/05/2011, 10:19 PM
I think the barracuda's as a pair would be a bit overkill for the flow you are looking for, but as a single pump they would be perfect for what you're looking for in terms of flow. You could get a ton of flow in the tank with some of the penductors if you wanted to have both pumps. The blueline as well as Iwaki's are solid pumps as well and you might as well throw in Little giants and march pumps if you're looking for reliability. Till you get up into the 5 series pumps the LG & march don't flow as much as the Iwaki's and Blurlines, but are still a good pump.

Being direct drive the reeflo pumps are going to give you a better bang for the buck in terms of energy input and have sequence engineering behind them. A serviceable motor where you can replace the bearings and pump seals is also a plus if you want to save on buying a second pump and just rebuild it every 2-3 years.

Thanks for the feedback! Sounds like most of the pumps out there are pretty solid. Does restricting the pump flow afterthe pump outlet wear on the pump?

The penductors thought crossed my mind. The only concern I have with those is the back siphon - I usually T the return lines and have one near the surface to break the siphon. Could go with the little drilled hole approach.

pascal32
03/05/2011, 10:22 PM
Looks great. The one thing that comes to mind is that your not leaving much height for the filter socks. Also, your idea about having the drains flow into tubes is a great idea but I would be concerned about water backing up the pipe and that would create a siphon action that might make noise. Does your fuge overflow into the filter socks? If so, then you will end up filtering out some of the pods you could be growing.

I would move the socks to one end. Have the water drain into a box that servers as a bubble trap. The water could overflow from that box into the socks. I would elevate those socks so you can use deeper ones with more surface space so you dont have to change them over couple days. I use 4 big ones and they last me up to 2 weeks. I would move that fuge downstream of the socks and skimmer.

Here was my design. You can see the boxes that the water drains into from the main tank. There are 2 of them and each box flows into 2 socks. There are 2 drains from my tank.
I realize that you are probably working with some space constraints but maybe this will give you some other ideas.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Both-sumps.jpg

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Sumpfinished1.jpg

Thanks for the great thoughts. I love your sump! Good call on the filter socks. I'm going to raise them up to get more use out of them.

As far as the siphon it's a tough call- I haven't been able to find larger systems with a setup like this. There is a sump on BRS which does this.

You did make me realize that a return area is easier and cleaner than 2 tubes!

Thanks!

captain7359
03/06/2011, 09:35 AM
Does restricting the pump flow afterthe pump outlet wear on the pump?


No, so long as the valve is on the outlet side you're fine.


The penductors thought crossed my mind. The only concern I have with those is the back siphon - I usually T the return lines and have one near the surface to break the siphon. Could go with the little drilled hole approach.

Are you talking a tee with a line out the top and into the tank, or something different? The penductors do make it a little tougher to get a siphon break.

USC-fan
03/06/2011, 09:43 AM
Doesnt having the box kill the purpose of the filter socks? Seems like you guys are going to have a ton of stuff in those boxes. Hope they are easy to clean. I would put the overflow return directly into the socks to catch everything. That is how my tank is set up.

pascal32
03/12/2011, 10:08 PM
Updated drawings and incorporated the suggestions above.

* instead of drains into a tube, now there is a drain area
* raised filter sock area to let the socks stretch out.
* went from 2 pumps to 1 dues to space restrictions (running dolphin 3600SP)

The concern I have is two filter socks being able to keep up with all this water flow. the excess will spill over, just worried about the noise of the water crashing down.

Looking to order glass on Monday, so if you have suggestions, please let me know!

http://img703.imageshack.us/img703/1733/sumpv5.jpg

pascal32
03/12/2011, 10:10 PM
Are you talking a tee with a line out the top and into the tank, or something different? The penductors do make it a little tougher to get a siphon break.

I like to tee the return in the tank and have one of them skim the surface - pulls air as soon as the pump cuts out.

For now I'm going to steer away from penductors, though I do believe they have a great use in this hobby!

pascal32
03/12/2011, 10:12 PM
Doesnt having the box kill the purpose of the filter socks? Seems like you guys are going to have a ton of stuff in those boxes. Hope they are easy to clean. I would put the overflow return directly into the socks to catch everything. That is how my tank is set up.

Most stuff should blow up and into the socks. there is going to be 2000 GPH (33 gallons per minute -> 1/2 gallon per second) All the drains will have unions on them in case access to the box is needed.