help, i dont know what to do now

[tada1096]

ok here is what i have done so far. filled tank with water and crushed coral. let it stand for 2 weeks. then i added a peice of live rock and a clownfish. i let that stand a week and nitrates were 60, nirtite was 5. then water change. then nitrate was 40 and nitrite 3. waited another week. nitrate was 40 and nitrite was 3. I then added a angelfish. I also had a brown algae bloom. so on the 5th week i added 11 lbs or live rock. Nitrate was 10 and nitrite was 2. Then on the 6th week i had the angel gish die, the next day the clownfish died. i also added a goby to the tank that day. (i bought him and took him home thats when i found the clownfish dead) both looked great the day before. natrate was 5 and nitrite was 2, and ammonia was .3
i then did a small water change and now at the end of the 6th week my nitrate, nitrite, and ammonia are all 0. my ph is a lil on the low side though 7.7
so i guess im not sure what i should do at this point.

in regards to the clown fish after he died i looked at him and saw what looked like small spots on his back, but the spots would only show up in you shinned the light right at him, they also were shinny kindof metallic looking, not white it didnt really look like the pics i saw of ick.

so now i have a tank with crabs snails and a goby in it. everything looks good except the low ph. im a little worried about putting anything in there but dont know what else to do either?


my tank is a 55 gal by the way.


any thoughts?

[Texa$]

What type of water and filtration are you using? Did you add anything to the water at first to start your cycle or was it just plain water and crushed coral and nothing more? 2 weeks is rather early to start adding fish to a tank that has not ever really cycled yet.

[tada1096]

ya i just used the crushed coral, and i was wrong about the first peice of liverock that went in after a week.

ya i know it was early so thats why im trying to do the right thing now

[sasharotty]

Your tank is still cycling my friend.Let it sit for 4-8 weeks checking params along the way.And Angels need very good water conditons to thrive.

[bnumair]

with out knowing all the fact asked above by TEXA$ hard to say, but my guess would be ur tank was not cycled properly and ammonia and nitrites caused enough stress on ur fish to kill them. especially the part where u added more live rock in thats would cause a die off and more ammonia and this more nitrites, both very harmful to fish.

[stevie-o]

well what's done is done. If you can i would sell the goby back. then wait, and finish your cycle. It's okay we all mess up especially in this hobby when your first starting out new tank syndrome is the worst enemy

[stevie-o]

reading older posts sounds like you have a good setup hope some of this info helped sorry about your loss

[tada1096]

for filtration i have a marineland double biowheel hang on filter, a magnum 350 canister filter, and a excaliber protine skimmer
i was thinking now that nitrate nitrite and ammonia are are 0 the cycle was complete. what else need to happen for the cycle to finish?

[tada1096]

what should i be looking for

[jamest0o0]

I didn't read everything, but from my experience and what I've read... Add your sand and all the LR at once and let it cycle, nitrite doesn't seem to be necessary to test, but the others are important. I wouldn't use crushed coral, when I started petco told me to use it and it just became a nitrate trap. Now I used sugar grain aragonite. For PH make sure you have a good amount of flow and glass lids tend to drop PH from what I've heard (not sure if you're using one just saying)

[JoeRonda]

I'll tell you why you are showing NO3.......Bio Wheels in a saltwater aquarium. Pull them things out of there and put them in a freshwater tank where they belong. I love marineland and their bio-wheels, I have 12 of them in my 5 F.W. tanks right now, but they have no place in a S.W. tank. Nothing but NO3 factories.

[tada1096]

i actually already did that, i took them out before i put water in the tank. im using the filter, just not the wheels. at least i did something right :)

[JoeRonda]

Good, that's what you have to do, let the biological filtration take place in and on the live rock. Bio-Wheels are so counterproductive when it comes to S.W. applications, but by the same token they are very beneficial when it comes to F.W. ones. Good Luck !!

[stevie-o]

whoops missed the part where you said everything whent to 0 yup your good add some reef buffer to slowly raise the ph http://www.marinedepot.com/Seachem_Reef_Buffer_Dry_Powder_pH_KH_Buffer_Additives_Supplements-Seachem-SC1333-FIADPKDP-vi.html

[Sk8r]

You've been through the wringer. Basically, set up---ideally with aragonite sand, 1 lb per gallon; and live rock, 1 lb per gallon. Water it and keep its salinity even at 1.024, feed it a tiny few flakes of fishfood a day until about 4 weeks on.

When you see hair algae start to grow and you've had ammonia, but now your fishfood offerings can't rouse any---you're cycled.

You then introduce a few snails to let their poo gently break in the sandbed.

You buy ONE fish and put it in quarantine. 4 weeks later, the snails and hermits will have done their job and you can put your fish in. Now you can start fish #2 in quarantine.

That's how it's supposed to work.

[tada1096]

well now i have what looks like green grass growing on my live rock in some places, im going to assume this is also a good thing?

[duncantse]

Probably just some type of macroalgae.

[Angel*Fish]

Angels should not be added to a tank before it's reached a decent equilibrium (6+ months) Is packed full of rocks with lots of hiding places and swim throughs.

I don't mean to sound harsh, but please, please get an understanding of what is going on with your tank before adding animals. You either need a good mentor or to ask on RC before doing anything to your tank.

I promise you neither of those fish looked great they day before they died. New hobbyists usually haven't learned what healthy looks like in a fish. The look of the fish is not something you'll be able to go by for a long time. Right now, you have to follow proper guidelines and use your water parameters as your guide.

Ammonia kills fish. It sounds like your tank is finally cycled though. This is what happened in your tank:
http://fins.actwin.com/mirror/n-cycle.gif

Nitrate will continue to go up whether you have a biowheel or not. Alkalinity will tend to go down, lowering pH. Monitor your alkalinity and add buffer or baking soda (dissolved in fresh water) to keep alkalinity up and your pH should stay in line. Do water changes to export nitrate.

[tada1096]

well thanx for the help everyone. so ill get some reef buffer and put that in the tank right away. so how long should i let that sit before i do anything else and then what is the next step. the lfs told me to put a damsel in the tank, i dont realy want one but i suppose i can always just take it out. i guess im going to do a water change tomorrow then add the reef buffer then fish?
this sound right?

[Angel*Fish]

No, please don't put a damsel in your tank. Is the point of adding the damsel because they're saying your not cycled? If it is, that's 1980's old school husbandry. If you need to cycle your tank you can add a very small dead shrimp or feed your tank some fish food. WITHOUT THAT GOBY IN THERE!!! :D

Did you do a water change in between the nitrates being 40 and then 10? I just reread your OP and I'm not sure I'm understanding it.

If your params followed something like that chart above, then you're cycled. Because it's not clear (?), then I recommend adding a little fish food every day for a week and monitor what happens. If nitrates gradually rise and ammonia and nitrite remain at zero, then you'll know you're cycled.

Then you can add one fish, but make sure the nitrates are low (do a water change). Just one fish. A small, hardy type fish. Monitor your parameters for 3--4 weeks, if everything's ok (zero nitrites and ammonia) then you're ready for another fish.

Do a water change every week to keep nitrates down. Keep up with the alkalinity/ buffer. Low pH and changes in pH are hard on your animals. Changes like that causes stress in your fish. Fish are sensitive to stress and will get sick and die. That's not a new age touchy-feely opinion, it's a fact :)

[Angel*Fish]

The reason you can only add one fish at a time is because it takes time for your biosystem to grow enough bacteria to handle another fish without crashing your system. How much live rock do you have total -- if it's only that 11 lbs, I would either buy about 40 more lbs or replace that biowheel.

[tada1096]

i did my water change between the nitrates being 60 and 40, and thats great to hear that i dont need a damsel i hate those things also.

so how about i put the buffer put that in, then watch the tank for a while untill i see that only the nitrates are slowly rising. then do a water change. then add a fish?



any ideas on a fish, im thinking clown again?

[tada1096]

i have about 15 lbs of live rock, i want to get more though.
so ill get some this weekend then

[Angel*Fish]

:thumbsup: Feed the tank a little food as if there were a fish in there during that week

The ocellaris or percula clown are a perfect choices and if they're teeny ones (literally like an inch long), you can have two. :D

When I first started in this hobby, I didn't have a clue as to how to recognize a healthy fish (but I didn't know it) - that's normal. Try to find an honest competent person at the LFS, tell them you've had some fish die and it wasn't fun. And you want them to help to choose a fish. If they're experienced, they'll know what to sell you. They won't ever say "this fish is sick" because they really aren't supposed to - but they will subtly help you out.

Sometimes there aren't any suitable fish and you'll have to wait. Sometimes they are dishonest. I was at a LFS today and they had 5-6 flame angels and were advertising a flame angel sale. All of those fish were having some kind of problem and appeared disoriented. I'm pretty sure they are all goners and were suffering from cyanide poisoning. But if you don't know how a flame angel normally acts, then you wouldn't know something was wrong.

Hope all this is helpful to you.
PS You might want to order Bob Fenner's book The Conscientious Marine Aquarist there are 51 used on amazon starting at $7
(http://www.amazon.com/Conscientious-Marine-Aquarist-Commonsense-Successful/dp/1890087025)

[tada1096]

ok good deal thanx for all the help, i feel like i have a clue now insted of just looking at the tank thinking what do i do now lol

[C0rp]

Buy some books you need them. They will explain all the basics you MUST understand to be successful and have this hobby be fun. I can't imagine starting this hobby without researching, and books are the place to start. Have helped me greatly.