How far will Kalk go?

[Tat2demon]

I have a 75 that is a light sps tank right now and Im looking at getting a kalk reactor. Im currently just running kalk/topoff from a 5 gallon bucket and aqualifter pump controlled by my RKE.

How far will a Kalk reactor get me in SPS before I need to upgrade to a CA reactor?

Thanks

[bertoni]

That's hard to guess, but when you mention SPS, I think reactor or two-part. You could try using just kalk, but I'd plan on having to dose more.

[jimrawr]

From my experience, kalk doesnt really do much at all for ca/alk. I have a 92g corner tank with about 10 frags and 2 small colonies, and the kalk was only raising my pH but couldnt keep up with demand of my corals. I still dose around a 1.5g of kalk water per day, and have to also dose 170ml of the two part to maintain.

Its all really tank dependent so you will have to test and see, but I think you will really need to plan for a two part or calc reactor if you want to get into sps seriously

[sjm817]

I have a 75 that is a light sps tank right now and Im looking at getting a kalk reactor. Im currently just running kalk/topoff from a 5 gallon bucket and aqualifter pump controlled by my RKE.

How far will a Kalk reactor get me in SPS before I need to upgrade to a CA reactor?

Thanks
If you are running fully saturated Kalk topoff now, a kalk reactor wont be any better, possibly worse.

[edsreef]

I think for any SPS dominated system kalk alone will usually not be enough. It does help keep things more stable and saves money on 2-part also.

[tmz]

I agree a still reservoir for dosing kalk via drip or dosing pump has advantages vs a reactor in terms of dosing a consistent fully saturated solution without particlulates( cloudy water).

On the broader question , I've been running a system stuffed with colorful, growing sps with fully saturated kalk dosed 24/7 as top off for over 2 years.
I have a calcium reactor and have used it in the past together with the kalk dosing but it's been on the shelf as kalk does the job very well without it, contrary to prevailing commentary.
Calcium is consistently 500ppm with alk at 9.6dkh.
The only supplement other than kalk or salt mix is a bit of baking soda . Every 2 weeks or so a small tweak to alkalinity with a tablespoon of baking soda to the 550 gallons is used to make up for the few hours kalk is off for refill, mixing and settling.

[stanlalee]

I switched from two part to fully saturated kalk for ATO top off and its worked well for me so far. As long as I use high calcium salt I typically dont have to add anything and when I do its just a 5-10cc of carbonate supplement (I dont even keep calcium chloride in the cabinet anymore). I have a 30g with open top and two halides so it evaporates/uses half gallon a day of saturated limewater. I used the reef calculator and it was about equal to the amount of supplement (seachem reef complete/carbonate buffer) I was dosing when I stopped dosing. theoretically since what I was dosing in 2 part basically = fully saturated limewater I should probably have had to switch back to 2 part by now but I havent (its been 7 months). I have some pretty good size pieces and a clam and the tank has been up over two years. Its gone alot further than I thought kalk alone could go. Only reason I started using it in the first place was I was going on a week vacation. havent stopped since. probably need lots of evaporation for it to work though.

[tmz]

stanalee, good to hear your experience is similar to mine.. I kept compulsively rechecking things for months since it was a pleasant surprise that just kalk plus an occasional tweak with baking soda and a high calcium/magnesium salt took care of it all.

[tmz]

My evaporation is only about 4 .5 gallons per day on the 550 gallon system and all of the makeup is fully saturated limewater.

[edsreef]

I use glass tops on my 90gal so I evaporate much less water. My ATO with kalk keeps my calcium just below 400 so I add a little 2-part as needed. I'm also going to be switching over to Kent salt with higher cacium so that may make a difference too.

[m2434]

Right now I'm adding 1.5g of saturated limewater per day via an ATO drip, to an approx 140g total water system. After that I still need about 30ml per day each A and B of C-balance 2-part. I wouldn't consider my system super heavily stocked, so it depends. If it was summer and I was running fans for evaporation cooling, kalk would be doing a better job of keeping up; there are a lot of factors.

Also I agree with others the reactor may actually make kalk dripping less efficient. I ran one for a while and switched back to kalk in a bucket. I use an aqualift pump ($15) and a flow restriction valve from lowes ($5) and a 5g bucket from lowes ($2.78) Works better than my $200+ reactor without any question. I just add 5g of water to the bucket, add the kalk, mix with a pvc pipe. Then I have the pump on a controller, set a delay timer on the controller to allow it to settle (honestly I just set it for 6 hours, not a full 24 though).

The reactor was good, but you have no control over the actual saturation of the limewater effluent. Also, it does not allow impurities to settle out of solution. And there is no good way to mix in vinegar, if you want to boost the saturation and use for carbon dosing. And more chance of mechanical failure.

Also, as a side note, if your trying to maximize kalk, it helps to minimize precipitation as much as possible I've found for example, dripping kalk slowly,keeps the pH in my sump lower and prevents waste due to precipitation. Also, as mentioned I recently added a controller and set up the aqualift pump, to turn off if the pH in my sump is over 8.2. I found this very noticeably decreased the amount of 2-part I needed to add. Presumably because there was less waste due to precipitation. Of course you can also set it on a timer to run at night, however, having it on a pH controller allows me to keep the flow rate lower, as I can dose for a longer period. This is beneficial for a number of reasons as described above and also, if my ATO fails, the slow drip takes a long time to cause salinity and pH issues.

[stanlalee]

I'm not particularly jam packed or grown out but here she is non the less on using kalk only (as stated half gallon a day fully saturated via ATO 30g/10g sump).

http://i1223.photobucket.com/albums/dd520/stanlalee/reef%20tank/reefmarch.jpg

So basically if you can get enough into the system it can at least start you out (even though I did the opposite, two part then kalk)

[LivingRoomOcean]

I am running both.... kalk via aquamedic 1000 for ATo and
When my tank needs more going two part route ... Kalk is the mothers milk if reefs ...
It will help to keep system stable ...

[dan-in-gr]

Hi, I have a SPS only 90 gal tank and use a Geo kalk reactor and kalk every night. My parameters are very stable and have 8.2 pH in morning and 8.3 pH when lights on end of day. I also have the BRX two part (Cal,Alk & Mag) and have had to dose only Mag and Cal. There are 45 small SPS in tank now, but requirements will change a bit when they get bigger.

I had a Calcium reactor on another tank and always had to fight to keep pH up, now I do not worry about that. I prefer to use the kalk reactor and am getting a nice coraline everywhere.

[m2434]

BTW, just to add to my last post. I did not mean to imply that kalk was coming up *way* short. If I recall correctly, for the alk component for example, the math works out to about 1.2 dkh per day from the kalk and 0.3 dkh per day from the 2-part. So, the kalk 80% sufficient :)

[EasyEd77]

I have a 75 that is a light sps tank right now and Im looking at getting a kalk reactor. Im currently just running kalk/topoff from a 5 gallon bucket and aqualifter pump controlled by my RKE.

How far will a Kalk reactor get me in SPS before I need to upgrade to a CA reactor?

Thanks

I have a 75 gallon and tried a kalk reactor after getting tired of mixing 2 part. I hooked it up to my ATO and it did not keep up with my demand. I only have 5 SPS corals, mostly LPS and I still needed to supplement 2 part. I figured why add an extra step to my maintenance routine? I traded the kalk reactor for a calcium reactor. Don't get a kalk reactor in hopes of keeping up with your demand long term if you want SPS.

[tmz]

As noted ear;ier , I keep sps and use kalk dosed from a still reservoir (not a reactor) for calcium and alk supplements .They are doing well. Here are a few pics:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=187226

[tmz]

That link doesn't work for some reason. Let's try this one:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1872264

[AquaticFins]

If you're close to meeting your needs with top-off water saturated with kalk, it probably won't be difficult to get that extra 20%.

Increasing your evaporation rate is probably the easiest way to go, though it's certainly possible to essentially correct for an overdose of kalkwasser with vinegar/acetic acid additions.

With that said, calcium demands increase dramatically as corals grow. Kalkwasser additions alone can fulfill the needs of quite a few small frags...but as those frags grow into colonies, it's going to fall further and further behind.

A tank with only a few fast-growing SPS corals can probably be maintained with kalkwasser additions. A SPS-only or SPS-dedicated tank? Not a chance, long term.

In my opinion, it's certainly better to put the extra money towards a calcium reactor right away if you're looking to keep a large quantity of SPS corals.

[Sk8r]

Kalk only, 54 gallon. What I've tracked says that kalk is going to be effective up to about 75 gallons, and even a hundred, but how effective between those two sizes depends on type and amount of coral. My lps grows pretty fast. This is just after fragging, in January, and 3 months later, I need to move some of these out: the frog in the center of the image has doubled in size.

http://i49.photobucket.com/albums/f269/Sk8r10/cleantank.jpg

[m2434]

If you're close to meeting your needs with top-off water saturated with kalk, it probably won't be difficult to get that extra 20%.

Increasing your evaporation rate is probably the easiest way to go, though it's certainly possible to essentially correct for an overdose of kalkwasser with vinegar/acetic acid additions.

With that said, calcium demands increase dramatically as corals grow. Kalkwasser additions alone can fulfill the needs of quite a few small frags...but as those frags grow into colonies, it's going to fall further and further behind.

A tank with only a few fast-growing SPS corals can probably be maintained with kalkwasser additions. A SPS-only or SPS-dedicated tank? Not a chance, long term.

In my opinion, it's certainly better to put the extra money towards a calcium reactor right away if you're looking to keep a large quantity of SPS corals.


In my case, I could almost certainly get the extra 20% via evaporation cooling. Right now it's still winter though and it doesn't make sense to have fans going. Also, honestly, I would prefer the kalk was a bit short, that way I have more control, as I can get exactly where I want to be with the 2-part.

I could probably also get the extra 20% by switching salt. Right now I am using IO. If I used something else, that would likely also do it.


At the moment, I'd say I have a "medium" stocked tank. The specific breakdown of corals being probably 75% LPS, 20 %SPS and the rest soft corals.

As the stocking increases, I will probably switch salt and possibly add vinegar to my kalk to increase the potency, if needed. I do not plan to ever switch from kalk to a ca reactor. Too complicated, IMO, just more headaches and expenses and does not help with pH.

[tmz]

With that said, calcium demands increase dramatically as corals grow. Kalkwasser additions alone can fulfill the needs of quite a few small frags...but as those frags grow into colonies, it's going to fall further and further behind.

A tank with only a few fast-growing SPS corals can probably be maintained with kalkwasser additions. A SPS-only or SPS-dedicated tank? Not a chance, long term.
With that said, calcium demands increase dramatically as corals grow. Kalkwasser additions alone can fulfill the needs of quite a few small frags...but as those frags grow into colonies, it's going to fall further and further behind.

A tank with only a few fast-growing SPS corals can probably be maintained with kalkwasser additions. A SPS-only or SPS-dedicated tank? Not a chance, long term

Is that an opinion based on any facts or personal experience or is it an echo of the opinions of others?

In any case ,it's just untrue , in my experience. I've been growing colonies, mini colonies and frags, over 300 of them for over two years with kalk(limewater) only and maintaining good alkalinity(9.6dkh) and calcium (>500ppm)levels. Earlier on I also used a calcium reactor but things have never been better since I took it offline and went with kalk only.
When dosed correctly , fully saturated limewater(kalk) does a very good job of providing an adequate self purified balanced alkalinity and calcium supplement . It also keeps ph up gives and may precipitate some PO4 from the system..

[AquaticFins]

With that said, calcium demands increase dramatically as corals grow. Kalkwasser additions alone can fulfill the needs of quite a few small frags...but as those frags grow into colonies, it's going to fall further and further behind.

A tank with only a few fast-growing SPS corals can probably be maintained with kalkwasser additions. A SPS-only or SPS-dedicated tank? Not a chance, long term

Is that an opinion based on any facts or personal experience or is it an echo of the opinions of others?

In any case ,it's just untrue , in my experience. I've been growing colonies, mini colonies and frags, over 300 of them for over two years with kalk(limewater) only and maintaining good alkalinity(9.6dkh) and calcium (>500ppm)levels. Earlier on I also used a calcium reactor but things have never been better since I took it offline and went with kalk only.
When dosed correctly , fully saturated limewater(kalk) does a very good job of providing an adequate self purified balanced alkalinity and calcium supplement . It also keeps ph up gives and may precipitate some PO4 from the system..

It is my opinion, based on personal experience, though I'm far from the only one who has ever voiced it.

There are certainly many ways to succeed in this hobby...I'm glad kalkwasser works for you. It hasn't always been enough for me, and thus my opinion.

Re-reading it, I definitely could have worded that better. My apologies - my intent was not to state that there's only one right way to do things, though it certainly seems to have come out that way.

David

[tmz]

No apology is necessary but thankyou .

I just want to insure folks have information to consider in making their own choices. Two part dosing, calcium carbonate reactors and limewater(kalk),singularly or in combination are all useful ways to meet an aquarium's needs for calcium and alkalinity. Each has some advantages and disadvantages.

Two part: calcium chloride and carbonate/bicarbonate.: convenient in commercially balanced products or when generic products are used. Adds extra chloride which is not a major concern since there is a lot of chloride in the water to begin with and additions will not likely upset ratios even long term if normal water changes are performed. . May be pricey for a large system when hobby products are used.May contain impurities often touted as trace elements. Some commercial mixes may contain some helpful magnesium. Calcium and alkalinity can be dosed manualy or via dosing pumps in balance or separately allowing for independent calcium or alkalinity adjustments.

Calcium carbonate reactors: pricey equipment. CO2 drops ph. Media may contain sunk impurities which will release when dissolved.Some have difficulty keeping them consistently "tuned in" for consistent alkalinity levels,particularly as media levels drop or fines clog up the flow. When running well and appropriately sized , they provide a balanced alkalinity/calcium supplement without daily attention and many report success with them.

kalk( limewater) must be dosed over a long period of time by drip or dosing pump, for example . The longer(24/7) the better.
It raises ph so the amount you can dose is limited.
Inexpensive.
Self purifying as it precipitates out impurities that may be in it and may also precipitate some Orthophosphate (PO4 species).

[yeloowtang]

here's my experience using a kalk reactor !!

i have a 92 corner with a fair amount of sps ,some lps and clams.
i'm runing my reactor at night for 12h dosing 12 sec every 30 minutes via a controler.
i didn't go the ato route simply because that is dependent on the amount of evap you get,for me that changes evey season so i wanted to have controle over the dosing..
for now it's doing a fantasic job

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=142652&d=1300581270

it's keeping my alk at 8.3 cal 420 ph 8.2
i do regular water changes about 5 gals a week...
but that's for now ,i'm adding a little 2 part tropic marine with calcium a few times a week because i'm slowly noticing as others mentioned that a reactor alone might not be sufficient much longer.
corals are realy growing well but getting bigger so a calcium reactor or a additional 2 part dosing system is being considered right now..

the reactor is doing a a good job keeping things where i want them but won't raise it..right now they are consuming alk way more than before..a few months ago my alk was rock solid at 8.6 and would only start to drop when the reactor needed a refill..now i'm more in the 8.3 slowly going towards 8.0 !!!
my PH and calcium stay put as my mag at 1350 wich i dose with kent liquid when the test shows a drop...

steff

[Tat2demon]

Thanks for all the info guys. I started this then completely forgot about it until a friend told me it turned into a pretty good discussion. :)

[Tat2demon]

I forgot to ask, why doesn't a reactor work as well as a bucket? Wouldn't it keep it saturated?

[bertoni]

A fair number of people report that reactors don't saturate the water. I don't know why.

[m2434]

A fair number of people report that reactors don't saturate the water. I don't know why.

I don't think it's necessarily that reactors don't saturate the water. It's that they do tend to provide full potency. Reactors can differ a bit though, so you need to define a reactor more, but they all add complexity and more potential failure points.

Generally, a reactor has a pump that comes on to mix the lime. Also, the feed tube goes down to the bottom of the reactor, into the kalk. The pump typically comes on once and a while to stir it up.

If the feed comes too soon after it has been stirred, suspended solids will be pumped into the tank. On the other hand, if the feed comes on after it has settled, the feed dilutes the water in the water in the chamber.

What they do to compensate is have the feed tube go down into the kalk, so it's supposed to mix it a bit as it's feeding. It dosn't work that well though, the mixing is dependent on pump speed. Too slow and it won't mix enough, too fast and you'd get suspended solids. Also, it's risky to dose kalk fast, but that's another story.

Other reactor like the Two Little Fishes reactor, basically only rely on the feed method and require very fast feeds, which is again is risky. And the saturation is completely dependent on throughput.

There are also stirrers that constantly stir the water. This may be better if the stirring is working well, or could be worse if the stirring action isn't perfectly tuned to keep the correct amount in suspension. So, also in no way guarantees that you will supply the desired amount of kalk.

The catch though is, if you supply too little OR too much you will probably end up with less than you want. Because if you add too much, some, all, or even more (as the particles may provide a surface for calcium carbonate formation), will precipitate out.

Also, anything that regularly mixes the kalk is less likely to allow impurities to settle out of solution. So, you may be adding more of the bad stuff.

I don't meant to say they don't work at all. They can work ok sometimes. Mine worked fairly well, when I had it on my 29g and briefly on my 75g. A bucket works better though and dosn't cost $200+. I still have my reactor it;s just sitting on a shelf.

[gary faulkner]

I built a reactor out of a 5 gal. salt bucket, MJ mixing pump and Tunze feed pump. The feed pump is activated by a pair of float switches in the sump and pumps rodi water into the top of the bucket reactor. While the saturated kalk is taken from near the bottom of the reactor so you get mostly (if not all) saturated ro to the sump. I don't have the mixing pump automated yet but it would be simple to turn it on for a few minutes while turning off the feed pump for at least a few hours so as not to allow a slurry to enter the sump. Has been working well for me for at least 3 months now.

HTH

[edandsandy]

This is a great thread!
I do have a question, we have an ATO system, and a GEO kalk reactor,
We let the ATO do it's job and we have the kalk reactor pull water from the aquarium, the reason we are pulling water from the aquarium to kalk reactor, is twice the wheels for dosing pump stuck in the open position and added way to much fresh water, so much it dropped our salinity.... And over filled the sumps......thank goodness for a fish room with a floor drain! AND thankfully we were home to notice! And yes it happened at night for us to step into the fish room to find water on the floor....
So I guess what I'm really trying to ask is it ok to pull water from the aquarium to feed the kalk reactor or is better to pull water from our fresh water holding tanks?

[gary faulkner]

This is a great thread!
I do have a question, we have an ATO system, and a GEO kalk reactor,
We let the ATO do it's job and we have the kalk reactor pull water from the aquarium, the reason we are pulling water from the aquarium to kalk reactor, is twice the wheels for dosing pump stuck in the open position and added way to much fresh water, so much it dropped our salinity.... And over filled the sumps......thank goodness for a fish room with a floor drain! AND thankfully we were home to notice! And yes it happened at night for us to step into the fish room to find water on the floor....
So I guess what I'm really trying to ask is it ok to pull water from the aquarium to feed the kalk reactor or is better to pull water from our fresh water holding tanks?

Kalk doesn't dissolve very well in salt water. I would use ro and run it on your ATO. Placing a timer on the ATO pump can help eliminate the problem you were having with overflow. Also use at least two float switches on the ATO. Redundancy is very important in the reef keeping business.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

and we have the kalk reactor pull water from the aquarium, the reason we are pulling water from the aquarium to kalk reactor, is twice the wheels for dosing pump stuck in the open position and added way to much fresh water, so much it dropped our salinity

NO!

You cannot dissolve lime into seawater. Magnesium hydroxide, calcium carbonate and magneisum carbonate will precipitate, so all you'll end up doing is raising calcium and lowering magnesium and not supplementing alkalinity in a balanced way (if at all).

[tmz]

I forgot to ask, why doesn't a reactor work as well as a bucket? Wouldn't it keep it saturated?


Reactors rely on a large amount of undissolved kalk (lime) on the bottom of the reactor to mix via pump or stirrer with incoming water and are generally used in top off applications where they are lined up in some way or another to float switches. They are sealed from the air to prevent CO2 in the air from mixing into the water as stirring occurs to prevent precipitation of calcium carbonate and weakening of the limewater's strength.

They work for many but rely on too much equipment running flawlessly over a long period of time for my taste.

Trouble is newly stirred water is cloudy, containing impurities and undissolved kalk which can be dosed to the tank. The undissolved kalk will dissolve when it gets to the tank potentially resulting in an overdose and precipitation .On the other hand , if not stirred frequently enough to keep up with new water entering the reactor the strength of the solution will be less than full saturation.Ensuring afuly saturated dose of clear water can be touchy.

FWIW, For about a year, I used a simple salt bucket with a nub of rigid airline tube glued into the side about 2 inches from the bottom to avoid dosing the slurry at the bottom. Regular airline tube with a plastic valve on the end was attached to the nub. The bucket was placed above the sump. Gravity moved the hand stirred and settled solution from the loosely covered bucket . Drip rate controlled by the airline valve was timed and measured .I stirred it in the morning and dosed about 5 gallons over a 5 hour period at night for top off.
Now I use a 32 gallon brute garbage can ,replenished and stirred 1 x per week and dose via a perstaltic pump( liter meter 3). The dose is evenly distributed in 150 increments over 24 hours.

[yeloowtang]

i`m by no means an expert on the different models !!!!
but from the eperience and info i have regarding the one i use wich is the aquamedic stirrer.

it`mixes wate/slurr 24/7 and water feed comes frome the bottom going straight trough the slur,that in turn mixes it up making sure all fresh water comes into contact with the undisolved kalk..
so you find yourself having 75% of the top volume clear saturated water and since new water comes from bellow the saturated lime comes out from the top part...
unless you dose so much in one shot that it doesn`t saturate before coming out,i don`t see how you can`t have a constant`saturated lime water at the exit point..
i agree that it requires more equipment than a simple drip line but i have it set up in a way that i`m confi with.
you do have to refil the reactor every few weeks otherwise this is where you would get less saturated water as the slur becomes less and less available for proper mixing..

i have it on a separate pump runed by my RKL unit so it will dose from 9pm to 9am every 30 mins for 12 seconds and i can adjust as needed..
my ato is seperate and this way i don`t rely on evap,the reason for this is because evap isin`t constant depending on season.

so once you figure out how much you need to dose via testing all you need to do is monitor it to make sure your going in the right direction..

i do think that kalk can only go so far depending on the amount of corals and growth you have..then you need to either add 2 parts to supplement or maybe go cal reactor on top of it..

me for now my calcium stays right where it should be but my alk is being consumed more,my ph is at 8.2 and doesn`t change.
i`m adding some tropic marine with calcium to keep the alk in check..
i`m almost to the point where my reactor is in need of help :hmm4:

time will tell but for now i`m realy liking the reactor i have..

steff

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

All discussion of how it may happen aside, many folks using limewater reactors have measured their effluent and found it to be less than saturated, which is a reason, IMO, to not use a reactor if you need saturated limewater (unless you are confident that your model will do so).

[Tat2demon]

Wow thanks for all the answers guys. The reason I ask is I picked up a reactor from a friend a couple days ago for a very good price. Right now everything is still frags so hopefully it will last me a while. Ive been using a bucket, float switches on my RKE and an aqualifter for about a month that I need to refill about every three days. I dont have room for a large tub next to my tank right now so the reactor was appealing.

I plan to upgrade to a 240 this summer or fall so will need to change to a CA reactor then Im sure.

[NewSchool04]

I only use super saturated lime in my tank dosed from a 15 gallon container. Been doing it that way for years, no complaints.

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y222/NewSchool04/DSC01787.jpg

[tmz]

Here are some very informative articles on calcium hydroxide, i.e. limewater (kalkwasser) ,by Randy H Farely :

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.htm

http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/may2003/chem.htm

http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2003-05/rhf/feature/index.htm

[edandsandy]

and we have the kalk reactor pull water from the aquarium, the reason we are pulling water from the aquarium to kalk reactor, is twice the wheels for dosing pump stuck in the open position and added way to much fresh water, so much it dropped our salinity

NO!

You cannot dissolve lime into seawater. Magnesium hydroxide, calcium carbonate and magneisum carbonate will precipitate, so all you'll end up doing is raising calcium and lowering magnesium and not supplementing alkalinity in a balanced way (if at all).


Thank you Randy for your reply! :wavehand: we are pulling from the top off water again...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

:thumbsup:

Happy Reefing. :)

[liquidplumber]

Randy
Just curious after reading your articles listed above, What type of pump or device do you use to transfer your limewater from the brute container to your tank?
Do you use some type of pump in the brute container to mix the Kalk like you would with a salt mix and or to mix it say once or twice a day?

[stanlalee]

I dont know randy's method for mixing but I use a 5g bucket and simply fill it half full with water, add my ten teaspoons of kalk, slowly add the rest of the water to fill the bucket then stir (not creating bubbles) for about 15 seconds, if that, and cap it. I use a long handle kent blade glass cleaner with the blade removed to stir. For whatever reason you can stir the mess out the bottom of the bucket without causing any bubbles or drawing in air from the top. I let that sit overnight and it does its thing with no further mixing.

[tmz]

I dose via liter meter 3 peristatltic pump. The pump used for stirring is my elbow and a piece of pvc pipe when the reservoir is filled. The kalk water is stirred to a vortex and allowed to settle for at least 2hours and then the pump is turned on.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Just curious after reading your articles listed above, What type of pump or device do you use to transfer your limewater from the brute container to your tank?
Do you use some type of pump in the brute container to mix the Kalk like you would with a salt mix and or to mix it say once or twice a day?


I mix limewater either with a powerhead, or by hand with a long piece of rigid tubing. It should not be mixed after the initial mixing, so mine sits still for weeks in 3 x 44 gallon Brute cans plumbed together.

I deliver it with two diaphragm pumps (Reef Fillers). They are noisy (wouldn't want it in my living room), but effective. I control them with a float switch.

[NewSchool04]

Randy, when you add your lime, do you account for any of the residue you have on the bottom of your containers or do you just have a straight measurement of lime that you add each time you need to refill your containers?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Yes, especially in the old days when I used a single trash can, I added a lot once in a while, then just used what's on the bottom for a few more times. I now generally add lime or stir the mud until I hit a conductivity I like (such as 8-10 mS/cm) as an indicator of potency. :)

[NewSchool04]

Ok, so not giving it a full dose every now and then is fine, good to know. I've always just added the same amount, 10 tablespoons for 15 gallons and I'm done, never bothered to take into account the residual on the bottom of the container. I wish I could test conductivity. I wish I knew what conductivity was!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Ok, so not giving it a full dose every now and then is fine

Sure. For a long time, I intentionally was using partly saturated limewater as the tank did not need nor could it handle full strength without the pH getting too high. That is no longer the case, with better storm windows and a gas stove. :D

[allsps40]

I was only Kalk+2 for alk and ca needs. plus it has mag in it also. I am currently adding 4tsp? to 5 gallons of ro water. I dose it via my JBJ ATO. So far it has kept my ca at 440+ an alk at 9. Mag get used up a little faster it seems these days.
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/newcoralshots009.jpg

[tmz]

Kalk+2 may/may not be a good form of caclium hydroxide(lime) but any added magnesium will just precipitate out when it is mixed with water .So it is virtually useless as a magnesium supplement.

[liquidplumber]

How would a Brs 1.1ml Dosing pump hold up running kalk threw it out of a still container set up ?

[bertoni]

The magnesium in Kalk+2 precipitates out of solution as magnesium hydroxide, due to the high pH, so it doesn't get into the tank. The strontium should, although it's not clear that strontium is useful.

[edandsandy]

I have 2 question for all of those using a kalk reactor,
How much kalk do you add to your reactor and how often do you have your reactor stir the kalk?

[CalmSeasQuest]

How would a Brs 1.1ml Dosing pump hold up running kalk threw it out of a still container set up ?

It will work great (albeit at 1.1ml/min - slowly) as peristaltic pumps don't come into contact with the liquid. I use a BRS top-off pump (50ml/min vs 1.1 ml/min dosing pumps) pushing ATO water through a Tunze 5074 Kalk dispenser - It's worked flawlessly since installation a year ago.

Prior to the Kalk dispenser, I simply added Kalk to the still ATO reservoir, but after adding an Osmolator, I had to switch out the Kalk dosing as the Osmolater runs for a min of 10 seconds which on a small tank, would have dosed too much Kalk resulting on pH spikes.

Randy Holmes-Farley wrote a great article on Kalkwasser (http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2005-01/rhf/index.php)- IMO, it's must read

[allsps40]

Yeah I tested my mag last night and it was low 1200 again. I dont think Kalk+2 supplies enough mag to the water. It is keeping up with ca and alk just fine though.

[yeloowtang]

I have 2 question for all of those using a kalk reactor,
How much kalk do you add to your reactor and how often do you have your reactor stir the kalk?

i add 2 cups the i mix with ro/di water,i usulay mix it in two shots then add it to the reactor and fill the rest up with water.
then i plug everything back up and run it for a few seconds just to get air out of the water lines,because if you don't do this the air bubbles will shoot the slur back up the entire reactor..so by doing this after the reactor has been mixing for a couple hours ,the water clears up in the top part and it's ready for dosing..i then put the dosing line back into the sump..

i'm runing a kalk/stirrer so it mixes 24/7 and i have no risk of dosing white slurr..i dose at night when the lights go out.
this keeps my ph at a constant 8.2 and barely moves..

steff

[Sohal Tang Tim]

A friend of mine runs both a calcium reactor and kalk reactor.....
His SPS corals are the size of honey dew melons! They grow darn near
out of his 280 gallon reef! They grow so well that he runs out of real
estate quickly and has to frag like crazy just to have anyyyyyyyyy room
left in his reef to buy a single new coral.....

Dont forget that Kalkwasser ***precipitates phosphate*** out of the
water also in addition to it's other quality/benefits.

If Calcium reactor drops PH and Kalk raises PH....is that not a good idea?

I am not keen on this subject... I am both offering an example and asking
at the same time....ha! Thanks for your input.
It better be a good idea to run both because my GEO Kalk reactor arrived
yesterday and my Calcium reactor went online today! :)

Tim

[Sohal Tang Tim]

I think someone asked how often to set reactor to stir but I did not
read the answer anywhere..>I hope I dont have to go back and read
through it all again! ha...

Can someone answer what they recommend for how often to have
Kalk Reactor stir with powerhead/timer combo????

Thanks much

Tim

[Algaenot]

I've heard some people stir continually however, that seems a little overkill since once the solution reaches the saturation point stirring has no affect. I no longer use the reactor but 4 to 6 times per day for 2 minutes each worked well for my setup. I’ve gone back to using saturated kalk water with my ATO. I have a pedestal style stand with limited space so the bucket sat beside the tank for a couple of months until my wife made me get rid of it (some people just don’t see the artistic value of a 5 gal orange home depot bucket in the living room). I bought a large leather ottoman and made an acrylic tank to the inside dimensions. I cut a hole in the back to run the tubing through and placed the ATO pump inside. It hides the container and makes for a great place to sit and watch the tank. This setup keeps my Ca in the 450 – 500 range. However, most of my SPSs are small so my demand is fairly low.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I've heard some people stir continually however, that seems a little overkill since once the solution reaches the saturation point stirring has no affect.

If it works for you, there's no need to change, but FWIW, if the solution is saturated and the stirring stops, and then more fresh water enters, the water may no longer be saturated until it stirs again. :)

[edandsandy]

I've heard some people stir continually however, that seems a little overkill since once the solution reaches the saturation point stirring has no affect.

If it works for you, there's no need to change, but FWIW, if the solution is saturated and the stirring stops, and then more fresh water enters, the water may no longer be saturated until it stirs again. :)

Thanks again Randy:beer: that is the answer I have been looking for:wavehand:

[CalmSeasQuest]

I've heard some people stir continually however, that seems a little overkill since once the solution reaches the saturation point stirring has no affect.

If it works for you, there's no need to change, but FWIW, if the solution is saturated and the stirring stops, and then more fresh water enters, the water may no longer be saturated until it stirs again. :)

Thanks Randy,

In your writings, you discuss maintaining an ATO source with Kalk still and covered with an excess of Kalk in the bottom. The excess Kalk would "replenish" potency lost from the exposure to air (CO2.) I've used this method with seemingly similar results to that of a Tunze Kalk dispenser. Two questions,

1) If the solution is stirred upon each addition of water (topping off the bucket with RO/DI) and is then left still until the next top off, would any interim stirring be recommended or needed to maintain maximum saturation? (assuming a surplus of Kalk exists in the bottom of the container.)

2) Assuming the bucket is tightly closed, would there be benefit in using a device to try and further exclude air/CO2 from the surface of the Kalk solution (i.e. ping ping ball like inert spheres)?

I've been contemplating a Kalk stirrer, but based on the your comments and my unscientific observations - I'm thinking very similar results are available without adding yet another piece of equipment and the associated maintenance.

Thanks again for all your help Randy!

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I do prefer dosing from a settled reservoir.

No, there is no need to stir saturated limewater. I do not stir mine over a period of a few weeks. It is generally fine just to cover it with a trash can lid. I find a crust of calcium carbonate forms on top, and that may do a lot of the ultimate protection, with the lid helping some but maybe also helping to ensure that the crust isn't disturbed and broken.

[edsreef]

I do prefer dosing from a settled reservoir.

No, there is no need to stir saturated limewater. I do not stir mine over a period of a few weeks. It is generally fine just to cover it with a trash can lid. I find a crust of calcium carbonate forms on top, and that may do a lot of the ultimate protection, with the lid helping some but maybe also helping to ensure that the crust isn't disturbed and broken.

I also dose from a settled reservoir (Nurce ATO; airtight siphon feed). I mix mine with a powerhead each time I add water to the container. I've found that over time the solution becomes weaker but I haven't yet determined a schedual for changing it out.

How often do you remove the old, settled kalk and refresh it with new kalk?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I add new lime most every time now (although I previously added a big excess and used it over several times).

I remove the residual solids less often than once a year. :)

[luke1234]

I add new lime most every time now (although I previously added a big excess and used it over several times).

I remove the residual solids less often than once a year. :)

Hi,
fantastic thread is there an amount of calcium hydroxide to add per litre to achieve a saturated solution so no hydroxide is wasted,Kind regards Pete

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

yes, about 2 level teaspoons per gallon.

By weight, it is 1.5 grams per liter at 25 deg C. :)

[luke1234]

yes, about 2 level teaspoons per gallon.

By weight, it is 1.5 grams per liter at 25 deg C. :)

Thanks Randy,
just to make sure there is no difference in spoons between countries, is a teaspoon one which you add coffee to a cup????? not what you eat dessert??? kind regards Pete

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

A teaspoon is 5 mL. :)

Not sure what you use for coffee. Maybe this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3993245506_b3dbc33978.jpg

[luke1234]

A teaspoon is 5 mL. :)

Not sure what you use for coffee. Maybe this?

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3463/3993245506_b3dbc33978.jpg

:lolspin: i am liking that Randy,
thankyou again, at that ratio of calcium hydroxide to ro water i have wasted a fortune in hydroxide over the last 15 years , i use 1 dessert spoon per 5 litres and drip 2500mls per day to maintain kh at 9.6 and calcium at 420 in a 700litre sps dominated system , kind regards Pete

[bertoni]

Hmm, what size tank are you running? I assume that's your spoon. :)

[luke1234]

Hmm, what size tank are you running? I assume that's your spoon. :)

The spoons not the problem Jonathon its getting it back in the cupboard:cool:

[luke1234]

yes, about 2 level teaspoons per gallon.

By weight, it is 1.5 grams per liter at 25 deg C. :)

Hi Randy,
how does temperature affect the saturation of kalkwasser, i have been adding calcium hydroxide to cold ro water, most probably 4 x the amount shown above, i would imagine the realistic temp of the ro to be around 11 deg c,
kind regards pete

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

It may dissolve into cold water more slowly, but colder water actually holds more dissolved calcium hydroxide than does warmer water. :)

[edsreef]

My kalk's now going to go a little further since today I started adding vinegar.

TMZ: I'm curious, with your large SPS heavy reef, are you also using vinegar with your kalk?