Shane's 180 Fish only

[bowfinger]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D6GsBwKY1po
Let me know what you think. I would especially like an opinion on the Undulated Trigger.
The Mappa Puffer and Clown Trigger are the fish I will not part with, the rest could go if they look to be a problem.
Shane

[Gogandantess]

You need some liverock in there to make it look more natural. Unless that's what you wanted. Easy way to treat em' if they get infected I guess?

[geaux xman]

sweet! i like the bare bottom look, which i'm going to do myself.

what are you doing for filtration?

what all do you have for flow?

the only thing i would do differently is..... add a couple more angels!

[stangd1909]

I love puffer and clown trigger....

[sledge760]

Nice CT.

[Recty]

The fish themselves look OK, but the tank looks pretty empty, I like the bare bottom look (I used to have no sand in my 210) but I like to see live rock and more natural looking decor, not tree stumps.

To each his own though, if you like it that's what matters :)

[D5HP]

How mean are those three triggers?

Beautiful fish though...especially love that big puffer :)

[bowfinger]

I am doing a Copper treatment to start fresh (why so bare), live rock is either cycling for 8 weeks or drying out from the other tanks I moved these guys from. I am considering seashells or black sand for bottom and swapping out white pvc you can see for something that blends away.
The sump is a 60 gallon acrylic tank with 20 gallon wet/dry skimmer combo. I am using a ReeFlo Dart 3,600 gph for return split into 4. An internal overflow box w. 3" and 2 1/2" out.
The triggers I am concerned about, the shred on the top fin of the huma is from the CT.

[bowfinger]

By the way xman, I really wanted more Angels, but the CT at 20" and Mappa at 2 feet I really am pushing it already.

[MrTuskfish]

[QUOTE=bowfinger;18575881
The triggers I am concerned about, the shred on the top fin of the huma is from the CT.[/QUOTE]

That's inevitable with CTs, he's just getting started. Wait until the Undulated gets a little bigger. I can, in time, see these two triggers shredding every fish you have, then starting in on each other. Neither the CT or the UT make decent community fish. That poor puffer won't be able to get a second away from them, once they find how slow & vulnerable he is. Having these fish together while small is a problem, as they grow, it will become impossible. Did you do any research on the Ct & UT? IMO & IME, the only fish that do well (long term) with Clown or Undulated Triggers are big, bossy fish that can get away from them when they need to. Most belong by themselves in species tanks, especially an adult UT. Crowded tanks, like this, are just big smorgasbords for these fish. IMO & IME (I've seen it happen): that CT could go postal anytime now and you could come home to a real disaster Some Asian fishkeepers cram fish into bare tanks to equally distribute the aggression; but, I can never remember a CT or UT in the videos of those tanks. (Charlie Sheen, a few cases of scotch, and a few hookers suddenly come to mind).

[bowfinger]

MrTuskfish, the Undulated will go for sure, but wanted to entertain some opinions. I actually had him planned for different tank but figured I would add him to the "quarantine" system since he is small now.
The Clown Trigger I did a lot of research on and was focused on the pairing with the A.mappa specifically. I did see some instances of this genus going with CT's. Has your experience been with Spiny puffers getting attacked by CT's, as I hear of this frequently.
As for the other fish and crowding to reduce aggression I have considered as apposed to just the Mappa and CT. I have in the past had some fairly impressive freshwater mixes that included the use of overcrowding, but I believe I will trade off many of these fish as problems arise apposing the overcrowding method. The Mappa and CT will be a very unique pair or one will have a home to itself.

[MrTuskfish]

MrTuskfish, the Undulated will go for sure, but wanted to entertain some opinions. I actually had him planned for different tank but figured I would add him to the "quarantine" system since he is small now.
The Clown Trigger I did a lot of research on and was focused on the pairing with the A.mappa specifically. I did see some instances of this genus going with CT's. Has your experience been with Spiny puffers getting attacked by CT's, as I hear of this frequently.
As for the other fish and crowding to reduce aggression I have considered as apposed to just the Mappa and CT. I have in the past had some fairly impressive freshwater mixes that included the use of overcrowding, but I believe I will trade off many of these fish as problems arise apposing the overcrowding method. The Mappa and CT will be a very unique pair or one will have a home to itself.

Sounds like a good plan. I always thought a Sohal tang would make a good tankmate for a Clown Trigger; but never got around (nor had the guts) to try it.

[bowfinger]

By the way, the Arothron mappa and their poisonous skin was my thinking on them working in the instances it seemed to work and comments by others. BUT, I am not trusting this 100% and will always observe for their behaviors together.

[bowfinger]

Yes I did try to get a Sohal or a Clown Tang when I started copper but too late now I think.

[stangd1909]

How big do Mappa puffers get?

[MrTuskfish]

By the way, the Arothron mappa and their poisonous skin was my thinking on them working in the instances it seemed to work and comments by others. BUT, I am not trusting this 100% and will always observe for their behaviors together.
Keep us posted on how these two do. The slow and big A. Mappa's (a great fish) fins are such an easy target, but I've seen it work. (not personally) BTW, I'm with you on the preemptive copper treatment. I don't really advise anyone else to do it, simply because copper scares so many people. I've treated more fish than I care to count and don't think I've ever lost a fish due to the copper. Maybe, but I doubt it.I do know that I've never seen a common parasite in any of my DTs since I started using it. (thats a lot of fish) I don't think you could buy a fish that hadn't been treated with copper somewhere along the line. I use a de-wormer on all new fish too.

[bowfinger]

stangd1909, there is a 26" mark floating around and I have seen youtubes of them this big in the wild, but yet to see one larger than 15 or so inches on a captive one. They are very widespread and have local variation with little information, either way he should stay bigger than the CT and unfortunately might outgrow my tank size.
MrTuskfish, I did use prazipro as well and well monitor the fish for any other issues before placing live-rock and substrate in the tank. I have thought about the fins of the mappa, so have kept that in mind, with his huge appetite will hopefully outpace the CT and not appear to be a threat as well. We will see and I will share my good and bad; I wish others shared more on these two species as adults.

[stangd1909]

Ahh...ok. So they get about as big as my stars and stripes puffer. I love puffers, they are really cool. I really wanna add a Clown Trigger bad. I wait a little and see how you pair do.

[bowfinger]

I think the S & S Puffer is a little smaller, but yeah big. I am sure it will be a while before I know results. An interesting find is a thread on a Emperor Angel pecking at a Mappa bigger than it, but little follow up on it in an older archived thread.

[bowfinger]

By the way, it was the Undulated that shredded the Huma even at half the size. He showed his aggression the other day and I as amazed at his speed and agility. The undulated is going today! I have figured my CT was going for a piece of food because he has since shown no aggression. I have noticed everyone "puff up" around the undulated, showing there has or is an issue.

[TitanTV]

this is just my opinion... The Undulated Trigger (UT) needs to go for several reason. I do not know what it is about UT's but they really need/like a ton of caves and rocks to hide in. This does not solve their aggression problem but seems to make them happier. If you watch the video you can see the UT trying to hide in the small hole on top of the driftwood and he looks very angry as he does not have an appropriate house.

While I like to understock my tanks compared to most if I were you I'd get rid of everything except the Puffer and those few small damsels you have (your clean up crew). Clown Triggers are without a doubt killers. Its just a matter of time and when that CT's switch to evil happens its going to be a bloodbath.

[bowfinger]

TitanTV, just a little history on the UT, is he came from a tank with 100lbs of live rock sculpted into caves. It was the plastic mangrove root (that has a hole on the bottom too that he defends) he chose as his home while with the live rock. He was going to be traded the day I converted the tanks but he wedged himself in this so moved into the 180 by default for the copper treatment. The "caves" and live rock is in quarantine still. This is to cover your statement "to hide in the small hole on top of the driftwood and he looks very angry as he does not have an appropriate house." It is at least appropriate to use some source of hiding while copper treatment and while natural stone is out of the question, why not use his hiding place of choice.

[Sonicblast12]

Do they hide more if they have tankmates? Mine is always out exploring but has the tank to itself.

[bowfinger]

Sonicblast12, mine would explore but hides when I come close. He takes his food to the cave, even hoards the food by grabbing food, leaving at base of root then up for more. Very dog like.

[bowfinger]

update....(some music on this one)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DS0EH1y8G2c

[jjk_reef00]

Love the mappa puffer!