PDA

View Full Version : I'm the best LED ... No, I'm the best LED ...


MarlinHooker
03/31/2011, 07:40 PM
Ok, anybody aware of any reviews that compare the Aqua Illumination Sol against the Orphek PR-156? I've read in-depth individual reviews of each but they both come out basically saying the same thing " ... this is a great high end LED system blah blah blah ...". Something that highlighted the differences would be nice since they both appear to be great units ... then I could probably figure out which would be best for my system.

Acrotrdco
03/31/2011, 08:10 PM
Does Orphek even have dimming?

JPMagyar
03/31/2011, 08:11 PM
O.K. let me say straight up I'm an LED hater . . .


BUT, having said that I will add that I'm running a basement experiment that I intend to publish in a year or so and I'm not impressed with LEDs. I think they look terrible, cost a fortune to buy, and only work well for a select set of corals. My answer is stick to T5 or MH until you see a tank that grew up from frags like ReefBum. I do believe LEDs will ultimately win out, but the current crop of available fixtures does not yet cover the full spectrum necessary and cost way too much, but I'm an old grouchy curmudgeon so take that all with a proverbial "Grain of Salt".

JP

hpfunk
03/31/2011, 09:56 PM
any body have experience with the exotic 50watt LED cannon? exotic told me they are coming out with a 100watt cannon next month. The cost is offset buying bulbs in like 3 years so...???

b16drag
04/01/2011, 01:33 AM
I'd get the AI any day. Orphek is alot of hoopla! LOL! Use the "SEARCH" button in the menu above! :)

Acrotrdco
04/01/2011, 02:16 AM
O.K. let me say straight up I'm an LED hater . . .


BUT, having said that I will add that I'm running a basement experiment that I intend to publish in a year or so and I'm not impressed with LEDs. I think they look terrible, cost a fortune to buy, and only work well for a select set of corals. My answer is stick to T5 or MH until you see a tank that grew up from frags like ReefBum. I do believe LEDs will ultimately win out, but the current crop of available fixtures does not yet cover the full spectrum necessary and cost way too much, but I'm an old grouchy curmudgeon so take that all with a proverbial "Grain of Salt".

JP

Shrugs...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1991180

JPMagyar
04/01/2011, 04:48 AM
Shrugs...
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1991180


Exactly my point.

BUT in the end lighting is all about personal preference and what makes you happy :p



Radium Grown
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/TOTM/GreenBirdsnest.jpg




LED Grown
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NY50WtBKN8U/TX0ABAbezpI/AAAAAAAACUE/xdBRpAaIL0g/s720/DSC_4510.jpg




Radium Grown
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/TOTM/Tenuis.jpg?t=1301654797


LED Grown
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_NY50WtBKN8U/TUb3nCnUaeI/AAAAAAAAB_0/GfYsRshAuIg/s720/DSC_3590.jpg




Radium Grown
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/Valida1.jpg?t=1301656235


LED Grown
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NY50WtBKN8U/TX0AND2SN0I/AAAAAAAACVc/fOvxuKZk-34/s720/DSC_4501.jpg

LargeAngels
04/01/2011, 06:52 AM
I think if you are going to publish Radium vs. LED growth you need to elaborate a little more about what types of LED's and the setup.

rtparty
04/01/2011, 08:01 AM
I think if you are going to publish Radium vs. LED growth you need to elaborate a little more about what types of LED's and the setup.

If you click on the above link, you will see where all the LED grown pictures come from. That will then answer your question of what LED setup was used.

Acrotrdco has no problem letting you know about their lighting. I have enjoyed the different threads I have seen. It sheds some light on LED's for me. (Pun intended) :beer:

In the end I draw one conclusion from the LED threads I see. Corals start with full vibrant color or gain the color very quickly. They then start to lose the color throughout the body but keep it in the tips. Look at all of the pics from the above mentioned link. The full, deep vibrant colors are gone. The corals are still colorful but in an LED sort of way.

No, I am not an LED hater. I have a RapidLED PAR38 bulb over my 7.5g cube. It looks great but there are no corals in the tank right now. The disco ball effect on my sand it totally retarded but I can't do anything about it. The shimmer from LED's is not like the shimmer from any other point source lighting. It actually is a drawback to have so many point sources in a small area.

Anyways, only time will tell how corals do under this LED setup. I ran LED's for about 8 months at one point and it was a total failure.

MarlinHooker
04/01/2011, 05:36 PM
thanks all but I really wasn't trying to debate LEDs vs MHs/T5s, etc. What I was hoping to do was compare the Aqua Illumination Sol LED system to the Orphek PR-156 LED system. And to answer Acrotrdo's question ... No they don't. That's one of my big issues because since I have a canopy I have a fixed limit on how far away I can get the LEDs & being dimmable seems like a very useful capability. I think I read a post here earlier where someone who bought the Sol to replace his 250W MHs had to dail them down to 50% to get the same PAR reading ...

snorvich
04/01/2011, 06:07 PM
Well, when push comes to shove, the "patent" issue of all but AI makes me nervous. Full disclosure, I do have AI on order. And yes, you have to dial them down in the beginning because they do produce more PAR than MH.

AcroporAddict
04/01/2011, 08:12 PM
never mind.

MarlinHooker
04/02/2011, 06:55 PM
ok, what 'patent' issue are we talking about?

snorvich
04/02/2011, 06:58 PM
ok, what 'patent' issue are we talking about?

Orbital Technologies holds a patent on LED lights for usage in aquaria. AI is the only company currently licensed under that patent. PFO went belly up because of this (remember Solaris?)

pmrossetti
04/02/2011, 07:17 PM
Reeftech from what I've seen looks like the best led fixture.

jrsevy
04/02/2011, 07:32 PM
I did look a long time before figuring out that my only option for led reef lighting with a controller to automate the dimming was AI. Unless you want to DIY, no other companies can sell led lights that have this function in the US without the risk of a lawsuit. So I broke down and ordered 4 blue SOLs for my 48x24x29.

I also looked at a lot of opinions and came away that today, AI is the best PAR option as well. Hope to get them this week.

jmchzn123
04/02/2011, 08:43 PM
O.K. let me say straight up I'm an LED hater . . .


BUT, having said that I will add that I'm running a basement experiment that I intend to publish in a year or so and I'm not impressed with LEDs. I think they look terrible, cost a fortune to buy, and only work well for a select set of corals. My answer is stick to T5 or MH until you see a tank that grew up from frags like ReefBum. I do believe LEDs will ultimately win out, but the current crop of available fixtures does not yet cover the full spectrum necessary and cost way too much, but I'm an old grouchy curmudgeon so take that all with a proverbial "Grain of Salt".

JP
Seems to be way too much hard data stating exactly the opposite. Calm Sea Quest has some pretty intense data with up and running tanks showing and documenting pretty spectacular results. Don't mean to be confrontational but Reefkeeper 180 gal tank of the month I believe was 10 AI Sol Blues and ALL SPS and well.....tank of the month.....in fact rarely have we seen a nicer tank anywhere....so I think LEDS have arrived and MH are dead and buried....just saying

jmchzn123
04/02/2011, 08:59 PM
I think if you are going to publish Radium vs. LED growth you need to elaborate a little more about what types of LED's and the setup.
yes and frankly photography has EVERYTHING to do with how things appear in our tanks. OMG there is so little science going on here it's making me crazy. lets take same camera and same settings under exactly the same conditions and time frames. TYPE of coral and AGE of coral and then water parameters etc....I mean so much goes into how corals grow in a captive reef lets forget this argument and take total tank pics every qtr and see whose looks the healthiest....oh wait thats subjective isn't it........lol

MarlinHooker
04/03/2011, 07:07 AM
snorvich & jrsevy ... thanks for the info ... the patent thing could be a big impact

"Reeftech is the best ..." why? Need a little more info than that ... Are you running these LEDs on your system? Are they dimmable? Are the LEDs modular? Etc, etc ...

pmrossetti
04/03/2011, 09:03 AM
snorvich & jrsevy ... thanks for the info ... the patent thing could be a big impact

"Reeftech is the best ..." why? Need a little more info than that ... Are you running these LEDs on your system? Are they dimmable? Are the LEDs modular? Etc, etc ...

Fully programmable, modular, larger spread than AI.
No, but if I could afford them, I would.
See slief build thread .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFeOUZjBRyM

tbo
04/03/2011, 09:33 AM
From my research, it seems like the Reeftech is an awesome unit, just crazy expensive. I would love to see some straight-up side by side comparisons on the top 3 units available (whatever those are, seems like the AI Sol, RT Prometheus, and I don't know what else).

From the pictures I see, it seems like some units give a very dingy blue effect to the water/corals. Is this the way it really looks in person (for those who are actually running LEDs)??

BluScrnOdeth
04/03/2011, 10:21 AM
All that i know about orphek is that they designed their own LED to produce a more "complete" spectrum of light compared to CREE and others alike. Plus they are designed to penetrate waters up to 48". Other than that, i havent really seen any reviews as of yet on how they actually perform in real life.

slief
04/03/2011, 10:48 AM
Fully programmable, modular, larger spread than AI.
No, but if I could afford them, I would.
See slief build thread .

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFeOUZjBRyM

Thanks for the plug in.. I still have not installed them yet as I am waiting for 2 custom 90 watt fixtures to arrive from Reeftech to go along with the pair of 180 Watt ones I already have.

My criteria was pretty simple. I wanted full control of the LED's. Dimmability was a prerequisite as I want the ability to adjust not only the color but also the par levels. The other nice thing in my opinion about being able to dim the fixtures is that during the ramp up and ramp down period, less wattage is used. For somebody with a single fixture on a small tank, the savings would be negligable. For me, I will be starting with 540 watts worth of LED's and that savings will be more appreciable. That coupled with the fact that I will likely never run them at 100% really brings the value of dimming into perspective.

Originally, I had it narrowed down to 3 vendors. AI, Vertex Illumina or Reefkoi.
I researched alot and due to the fact that the Reefkoi's were not dimmable they were eliminated from my list.

AI looked nice but I would have needed 6 to 8 of their fixtures which gets stupid expensive. That coupled with the fact that many have illuded to hot spots due to the optics, I was on the fence. One thing I really liked about the AI is that they can be controlled by my Apex. That was a big bonus but not a necessity.

I really liked the Vertex lights and from what I saw, they packed the most punch for a small fixture with a 12" unit lighting up a 36"x36" footprint with evenly spread lighting. The downside was that the Vertex 12" fixtures were not networkable. They would each need to be programmed individually. Their larger fixtures (24"+) wouldn't have worked well for me as my footprint is 84" x 96" and I have my overflow dead center. Also, they didn't have any controllable fixtures that would work on the sides of my overflow.

In my research, I came across the Reeftechs. Like the Vertex, Reeftech uses no optics. Their LED layout is similar to the Vertex in that they have several CRE LED's layed out in close proximity on a PCB board. This makes servicing easy as boards can be swapped in the event of an LED failure. They also have slightly more LED's and higher wattage than the vertex.

The Reeftech's are fully networkable. That means, I can set several fixtures up to work like a single large fixture allowing me to create a dimmable sunrise/sunset effect that will travel from east to west across my tank. It also allows me to program things easier as I dont need to program several fixtures individually and can set my LED output by color to not only create the color effect I want but also the par level.

I don't really have plans for SPS corals though that could change in the future. My tank currently is mostly soft corals and my tentative plan is to keep it that way although I might add some SPS frags down the line to see how they do.

That said, best is subjective. I wouldn't say Reeftech is the "best", but they certainly were for my needs and application. Especially considering they were able to make me a custom version with less wattage for the sides of my overflow. That was very compelling as 180 watts would have been way overkill for that part of my tank.

It really comes down to cost vs function. LED's are not cheap and the jury is out on how effective they are for growing corals over the long term.

I have run a pair of 20K 400 watt halides for years and I am really looking forward to switching them out in the coming weeks for my new LED's. Not just for the electrical cost savings which should be substantial but also for the lighting effects that you cant get with a halide bulb.

http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/IMG_0250.jpg

tbo
04/03/2011, 11:16 AM
How many Reeftech's would it take to properly light a 24" x 24" x 60" tank? I would be curious to get other's opinions as to whether 2 or 3 would be needed? Also, Slief, what do you mean that you got a custom version for the sides of your overflow? Do they make different sizes?

slief
04/03/2011, 11:42 AM
How many Reeftech's would it take to properly light a 24" x 24" x 60" tank? I would be curious to get other's opinions as to whether 2 or 3 would be needed? Also, Slief, what do you mean that you got a custom version for the sides of your overflow? Do they make different sizes?

I would think 2 would work great on your tank but you would need to adjust the elevation of the fixtures above the tank in order to get the correct light spread. I can raise my lights up to 27" away from the water so I have plenty of flexibility to achieve ample spread.

Currently Reeftech only offers the standard 180 watt version. I think they are launching some other fixtures as well in the near future that will be lower wattage.

As for the custom version, they are making me 2 fixtures with 2 less LED boards mounted length wise in the fixture instead of their normal mounting. If you look at my light rack above, the 2 lower wattage units will mount under the aluminum plates in the middle of the rack. The fixtures will be mounted to articulating ram mounts so I can tilt the fixtures towards the center of my tank to help eliminate light on the glass while helping to focus the lights on my aquascape that surrounds my overflow.
This picture will give you an idea of how the overflow is situted in my tank.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/Jan%202011/DSC01726.jpg

The way the leds are arranged in the fixture coupled with the lack of Optics, the light spread is very similar to a metal halide fixture. When I tested these in my living room, the light was absolutely blinding and the spread was rediculous. Some will contend that optics help increase par levels which I am sure is true, especially with lower watt fixtures like the AI's, however, the cost is not as good of spread and more fixtures required for larger tanks. Given that nobody is really running their fixtures at 100% power, I think I will have plenty of Par to spare while not having to go crazy with an exorbitant amount of fixtures.

This is what the LED boards look like in the fixture. This is with 4 boards and a total of 180 watts. The ones I am waiting on are identical but will have 2 boards oriented length wise in the fixture instead of the four boards and be 90 watts.
http://i390.photobucket.com/albums/oo347/shleif/Tanks/LED.jpg

snorvich
04/03/2011, 12:19 PM
Anything you can share about costs? Gorgeous tank, by the way!

tbo
04/03/2011, 12:43 PM
That is an insanely nice tank.

I didn't really think about the height, only just the length and width dimensions, but of course it does make sense to control the spread by raising the lights. I would rather not hang the lights from the ceiling, so I guess I would have to have a pretty tall canopy made to accommodate the ability to raise them up. Any idea how high would probably be optimal for the size I mentioned 2'x2'x5'?

slief
04/03/2011, 01:12 PM
Anything you can share about costs? Gorgeous tank, by the way!

Thanks. I would prefer not to comment about the costs since my application was custom. I would contact Reeftech and see what you can work out with them. What I can tell you is that they are very competitive price wise with comparable fixtures such as the Vertex Illumina and very affordable compared to AI if you are solely comparing watt for watt.

That is an insanely nice tank.

I didn't really think about the height, only just the length and width dimensions, but of course it does make sense to control the spread by raising the lights. I would rather not hang the lights from the ceiling, so I guess I would have to have a pretty tall canopy made to accommodate the ability to raise them up. Any idea how high would probably be optimal for the size I mentioned 2'x2'x5'?



The tall canopy will be a great addition and would eliminate light bleeding out into your room. As for height, I am guessing around 10-12" from the water should give you adequet spread if the lights are evenly spaced across the tank. Maybe less depending on how high or low your rocks and corals are to the surface. That said, I am not totally certain but depending on your canopy height limitations and what types of corals you plan on having, 3 would end up being better though I would probably start with 2 at 12" high and leave some room to raise them further if needed. The fixtures are about 14" long.

Another killer option would be the Vertex Illumina 260 48" fixture which would like your tank up like a ball park and would cost about the same as 3 Reeftechs at street prices. Even the 48" Illumina 200 would be plenty of light and cost you less.

Lastly, another option would be the Pacific Sun Metis (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1986560). Pac sun has a forum special going on here (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1979102). They are a board sponsor. The designer of the Pac Sun lights is the same designer as the Reeftech fixture. Any of the above would work well but I would probably go with the Vertex or 2 or 3 Reeftechs.

tbo
04/03/2011, 01:49 PM
Great information, thanks. I am curious to see/hear how everything turns out with the Reeftechs for you (wifi, programability, etc). Keep us posted.

Do you know if they would would put off and build up any heat if contained in a canopy? One of my criteria is that I do not want to have to run a chiller.

slief
04/03/2011, 02:14 PM
Great information, thanks. I am curious to see/hear how everything turns out with the Reeftechs for you (wifi, programability, etc). Keep us posted.

Do you know if they would would put off and build up any heat if contained in a canopy? One of my criteria is that I do not want to have to run a chiller.

Heat wont be an issue but I would put add a couple holes in the back of your canopy and place a small computer fan in one of them pushing air out. That will help to eliminate any heat from the LED's as well as humidity. The fixtures have a pair on 120mm fans inside them to expell heat from the heat sink so it would be a good idea to do the same in the canopy. If it were me, I would use a 120mm fan for the canopy and a matching second hole to allow fresh air to to flow through.

I have a build there on the large tank section of the forum which I update regularly. I will likely install the new lights weekend after next. I'd do it sooner but I leave this coming Friday for a weeks stint in Vegas for a trade show. I will tackle the light install as soon as I get back.

I also want to tell you that I am in no way an expert on this subject and my comments are based on reading here among other places and seeing pictures and videos. My decisions were based on my application and what I thought would work best within a budget. The AI's would have been on the top of my list if money were not a factor in my decision. The option of Apex control was VERY tempting for me. I just would have had to spend some time and money experimenting with different optics.

My point is they all have their upsides and I dont think you can really go wrong with any of the above. "Different strokes for different folks".

snorvich
04/03/2011, 05:04 PM
Until I find out a lot more about Reeftech and their products I won't be contacting the company because that begins a negotiation cycle and I am no where near ready for that. I have some concerns: the patent issue with Orbitech and the Pacific Sun "evolution" into Reeftech and the lack of hard specs with regard to size, components and pricing. Is Reeftech an American company? Also, without knowledge at some level about the cost structure, it is difficult to intelligently evaluate this product versus other products. More information is certainly appreciated. Are they profilux controllable or are there plans for such?

MarlinHooker
04/03/2011, 06:00 PM
thanks for all the info on Reeftechs ... I'm certainly no expert on LED technology but some of things you wanted are also designed into the AI sols ... theyb are dimmable, and teh indivisdual LED 'pucks" as they call them are each individually programmable for up to 14 different intensities each which should make for an easy sunrise/sunset setup. One big thing I think the AI s have going for them is that their LED pucks are 'upgradable' as they acll it. basically you can remove and repalce any puck you want, this means easy fix for failures but more importantly as LED tech changes you can swap out their LEDs, also as different wavelengths become availabkle (UV, red, etc) you can add those to your spread if you desire and lastly, if you don't like tehir stock afrrangement you can rearrange teh pucks to get any custom module you want. They currently said they are not making any custome light pattern modules but you can do it yourself. the price is also 'reasionable' for fully programmable, dimmable, modular LEDs at $529 per module. Also they have a really cool 'thunderstorm' mode which I hear most corals think is all the rage ... lol ...

slief
04/04/2011, 12:55 AM
Until I find out a lot more about Reeftech and their products I won't be contacting the company because that begins a negotiation cycle and I am no where near ready for that. I have some concerns: the patent issue with Orbitech and the Pacific Sun "evolution" into Reeftech and the lack of hard specs with regard to size, components and pricing. Is Reeftech an American company? Also, without knowledge at some level about the cost structure, it is difficult to intelligently evaluate this product versus other products. More information is certainly appreciated. Are they profilux controllable or are there plans for such?

There is plenty of info out there including some retailers.
Here is one example. (https://www.vaquatics.net/shop/catalog/details?sessid=vQ8RgjjbFvhIIa9I7RGpfSptxLwI0BOSlDbPYbDZh39YDabAPMgqlHif6PlB2tZV)

Specs are on the reeftech site (http://www.reeftechled.com/?page_id=64).

Of course there is more info out there on google though much of it is redundant.

Pac Sun is still making lights and distributing them in North America (Canada) as far as I know. I am not sure what the relationship between them and Reeftech is but I do agree that it is a bit curious if you ask me. Reeftech like Pac Sun is not a US based company (from what I have concluded) and as far as I know, the patent is only governable in the US.

That said, I totally understand your concerns and I am sure that what I posted in this response is not new news to you. I had similar thoughts as you.

Not Apex or Profilux controllable either. I was actually pondering what would be involved in changing out the drivers so they could be controlled by my Apex. It seems to me that a dimmable driver without a built in controller would save manufacturing costs and create options that would appeal to a wider range of buyers. Not sure if they have future plans for that but if I were them, that would certainly be an option I would consider offering.

snorvich
04/04/2011, 05:10 AM
Thanks! Just what i wanted to know. Yes, the patent can only be governed for USA companies as far as I know. Of course that brings up other issues; I have used non-USA companies for my aquaria and that sometimes is cumbersome with regard to instructions and support. Still, I am going to continue to investigate them as I have more than one aquarium. The traveling sun is a really cute feature.

Midnightsun
04/04/2011, 06:24 AM
I did look a long time before figuring out that my only option for led reef lighting with a controller to automate the dimming was AI. Unless you want to DIY, no other companies can sell led lights that have this function in the US without the risk of a lawsuit. So I broke down and ordered 4 blue SOLs for my 48x24x29.

I also looked at a lot of opinions and came away that today, AI is the best PAR option as well. Hope to get them this week.

Actually there are several other high end lights available just not in the States, Going to A Canadian retailers website will open your eyes to several products that do it all. Reef Republic, Vertex Illumina, Aquaray, Illumagic and SfiLigoi to name a few. They all are sunrise, sunset, dimming with timers ect and are much more stream lined and much better looking than the AI. Many Americans purchase these lights in Canada via the web which is completely legal. The patent makes it illegal to sell the product in the States, not to purchase it in another country and import it for personal use. As for AI, nice light but it looks like a DIY project in it's simplicity. Probably because they need to pay a few hundred to Orbitech for every unit sold. Reeftech is also on the right track but a thick big box does not exactly float my boat unless you put it in a hood. Personally if I was limited to shopping US it would be the AI for me.

Acrotrdco
04/04/2011, 09:29 AM
Exactly my point.

BUT in the end lighting is all about personal preference and what makes you happy :p

Radium Grown
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/TOTM/GreenBirdsnest.jpg

LED Grown
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NY50WtBKN8U/TX0ABAbezpI/AAAAAAAACUE/xdBRpAaIL0g/s720/DSC_4510.jpg

Radium Grown
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/TOTM/Tenuis.jpg?t=1301654797

LED Grown
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/_NY50WtBKN8U/TUb3nCnUaeI/AAAAAAAAB_0/GfYsRshAuIg/s720/DSC_3590.jpg

Radium Grown
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/Valida1.jpg?t=1301656235

LED Grown
https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/_NY50WtBKN8U/TX0AND2SN0I/AAAAAAAACVc/fOvxuKZk-34/s720/DSC_4501.jpg

JP,

IMHO it's not growth under LED or Radium, it's just the color temperature the photos were taken under.

When I take the photos I use 10000K white balance, without using Vivid mode then auto-adjust white balance with Nikon Capture NX to try to get them to look as close to what they look like in my tank (under white:blue ratio of 2:3, or approx 12000K)

If I take photos under very heavy blue LED light (close to 20000K), I could also get them to look like this:
http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/9660/dsc0864v.jpg

neverwouldof
04/04/2011, 07:11 PM
Well I hope Reeftech builds their Lights better then the website! After 2 minutes on there I had to close out because frustration was sinking in... Selling multi-thousand dollar lights and I could reproduce that website for $2,500.

JPMagyar
04/04/2011, 07:41 PM
JP,

IMHO it's not growth under LED or Radium, it's just the color temperature the photos were taken under.

When I take the photos I use 10000K white balance, without using Vivid mode then auto-adjust white balance with Nikon Capture NX to try to get them to look as close to what they look like in my tank (under white:blue ratio of 2:3, or approx 12000K)

If I take photos under very heavy blue LED light (close to 20000K), I could also get them to look like this:


Give me a break!


LEDs are not there yet. I am growing corals under multiple LED fixtures and they all look sad. I used a Canon T1i in RAW mode which has no adjustments what so ever and used an EF100 macro lense. I didn't use any color adjustment. My corals are colored thru and thru. Your corals are NOT colored thru and thru, but have white areas in between, and that is typical of LED growth. If folks want to jump on that "band wagon" more power to 'em, but the truth is LEDs are NOT a "magic bullet" and will NOT make your tank magically better NOR will you save some unbelievable amount of money 'cuz the LEDs will cost you "a pretty penny" to start up . . . and to the fella that lamented the lack of science and mentioned the TOTM, I would note that the TOTM that used LEDs changed to LEDs only a couple months prior to the article so the corals were predominantly grown and colored undered his previous lights. LEDs shoot photons at a particular wavelength. They do not provide a broad spectrum of light, and therefore a great deal further research is needed to understand what wavelengths are optimal for each and every coral we like to keep, and this is the same reason why you don't see LEDs used in commercial greenhouse operations. They have tremendous potential but until we understand the particular wavelength needs of what we want to grow LEDs will be "cool" to look at but nothing more.


Take a photo of an LED tank that looks like this and I will bend over backwards "eating crow" . . . and I don't mean some tank full of thousands of dollars of recently bought corals and placed in a photogenic heap. All my corals have been grown out from frags over many, many years.


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/FTS5.jpg?t=1301968141

JPMagyar
04/04/2011, 08:09 PM
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/20ktest1.jpg?t=1301969167
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/PurpleMonster2.jpg?t=1301969189

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/Crayola.jpg?t=1301969216
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/TOTM/Plana-1.jpg?t=1301969261

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/OregonTort.jpg?t=1301969349
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/TortTodayDec10.jpg?t=1301969372

http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/50galBio2.jpg?t=1301969455
http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/Anemone.jpg?t=1301969512

blennielove
04/04/2011, 09:03 PM
Hello!
Thanks for all the information provided by everyone's experience!
I've been looking to get some LEDs for my 55 gallon mixed (currently using a hodge-podge of lights, most of you would laugh if you were to see it) and my 225 gallon "Crypt Recovered" tank. Well, I was leaning towards TWO AI sols for the 55 going parallel as the tank is only 48x12x20 (strange, I know). Was leaning towards the Vertex Illumina for the 225 as it's measurements are 72x24x30. After reading about MaxSpect with all it's changeable LED options...leaned towards that, but I do need something dimmable because the 55 will have a 6 inch tall hood...
I thought I got it all figured out, but after reading everyone's opionions, I'm back to square one.
Would anyone please help me see the light?
:)

reefsurfing
04/04/2011, 09:37 PM
Give me a break!


LEDs are not there yet. I am growing corals under multiple LED fixtures and they all look sad. I used a Canon T1i in RAW mode which has no adjustments what so ever and used an EF100 macro lense. I didn't use any color adjustment. My corals are colored thru and thru. Your corals are NOT colored thru and thru, but have white areas in between, and that is typical of LED growth. If folks want to jump on that "band wagon" more power to 'em, but the truth is LEDs are NOT a "magic bullet" and will NOT make your tank magically better NOR will you save some unbelievable amount of money 'cuz the LEDs will cost you "a pretty penny" to start up . . . and to the fella that lamented the lack of science and mentioned the TOTM, I would note that the TOTM that used LEDs changed to LEDs only a couple months prior to the article so the corals were predominantly grown and colored undered his previous lights. LEDs shoot photons at a particular wavelength. They do not provide a broad spectrum of light, and therefore a great deal further research is needed to understand what wavelengths are optimal for each and every coral we like to keep, and this is the same reason why you don't see LEDs used in commercial greenhouse operations. They have tremendous potential but until we understand the particular wavelength needs of what we want to grow LEDs will be "cool" to look at but nothing more.


Take a photo of an LED tank that looks like this and I will bend over backwards "eating crow" . . . and I don't mean some tank full of thousands of dollars of recently bought corals and placed in a photogenic heap. All my corals have been grown out from frags over many, many years.


http://i927.photobucket.com/albums/ad115/JoePeck66/RC%20Uploads/FTS5.jpg?t=1301968141

Could I please see your LED setups? I agree we will improve the spectrums and optimize corals growth/color potential. However, my first hand experience differs from yours, I have transfered a bunch of corals from radiums and I am getting better coloration with my LEDS. Granted its a newer setup and the longterm has yet to be determined but my observations thus far are head and shoulders above the same frags under MH. I agree with some of your statements but the "tone" your conveying is to subjective. Please, I emplore you to help me make the switch back if you have some observable information.

I myself unfortunately didnt do enough documenting but the differences in color on my garf bonsai, joe the coral, pink lemonade, and a few others have been drastic. I run AI Sol BLue units and I think the three spectrums really helped move that product line in the right direction. I would personally love to see them do something more like maxspect with the interchangable LED's but thats a ways off imo. For my frag tank which will be shallow I might even purchase a maxspect G2 160 extreme to toy with different spectrums.

Anemonebuff
04/05/2011, 04:30 PM
You cannot just go by lighting. Your nutrients, feeding and pH/Alk/Mag, etc all will impact color. I've seen T5/VHOs blow halides out of the water with color. It is also about taste. Some prefer multi colored frags. Plus, judging by your photos your LEDs are not being run at the same color temp as your Radiums.

Acrotrdco
04/05/2011, 10:45 PM
Give me a break!


LEDs are not there yet. I am growing corals under multiple LED fixtures and they all look sad. I used a Canon T1i in RAW mode which has no adjustments what so ever and used an EF100 macro lense. I didn't use any color adjustment. My corals are colored thru and thru. Your corals are NOT colored thru and thru, but have white areas in between, and that is typical of LED growth. If folks want to jump on that "band wagon" more power to 'em, but the truth is LEDs are NOT a "magic bullet" and will NOT make your tank magically better NOR will you save some unbelievable amount of money 'cuz the LEDs will cost you "a pretty penny" to start up . . . and to the fella that lamented the lack of science and mentioned the TOTM, I would note that the TOTM that used LEDs changed to LEDs only a couple months prior to the article so the corals were predominantly grown and colored undered his previous lights. LEDs shoot photons at a particular wavelength. They do not provide a broad spectrum of light, and therefore a great deal further research is needed to understand what wavelengths are optimal for each and every coral we like to keep, and this is the same reason why you don't see LEDs used in commercial greenhouse operations. They have tremendous potential but until we understand the particular wavelength needs of what we want to grow LEDs will be "cool" to look at but nothing more.


Take a photo of an LED tank that looks like this and I will bend over backwards "eating crow" . . . and I don't mean some tank full of thousands of dollars of recently bought corals and placed in a photogenic heap. All my corals have been grown out from frags over many, many years.



To be honest, your photos show a very strong tint of arctinic blue, which is typical of what a tank under 20000K MH bulb would look like. Tanks lit by T5HO would look very different, and likewise under LED.

I don't want to debate whether your idea of "colored thru and thru" is better or not, all I could say is, have you seen what SPS colony looks like when they're freshly harvested from the sea?

They look something like this:
A.Nana:
http://sdmas.com/corals/50.php
http://sdmas.com/corals/images/large/50-02.jpg

A.Valida:
http://sdmas.com/corals/77.php
http://sdmas.com/corals/images/large/77-01.jpg

So you don't get the "colored thru and thru" look in harvested SPS colonies, I know because here in SE Asia we usually buy a whole SPS colony that's harvested from the sea, instead of buying frags and grow them into a colony.

Some folks may like to keep their SPS to look "colored thru and thru", others like to keep them closer to their natural appearance in the sea, some may even fine tune the color to look pastel (aka ULNS / KZ ZEOvit).

For me, I like my corals to look somewhat between the natural appearance and pastel, and I find LED is able to produce that kinda results.

Last but not least, yes LED shoot photons at a very narrow wavelength that's why anyone who knows this property would mix and match their LED bulbs in order to produce the color spectrum needed for corals to thrive.

This is how I mix my LED bulbs to get the wavelengths I wanted:
http://www.reef.hk/forum/uploads/monthly_09_2010/post-2746-1285175448_thumb.jpg