Seachems salinity first impression.

[Creetin]

Well i have read thru some of the posts here about it and i just mixed up a batch.
First it dissolved very quickly in about 20 minutes, It is not as cloudy as some report, At least no more than when i mix a batch of IO. I'll let it mix for a few hrs before i test cal/mg ph and alk.
I did like that i used less salt to mix (15 cups vs the 19) i would have used on IO for a salinity of 1.024 for 44 gal brute can. (Probably 38 gals of total water)I did notice brown substance tyoe scum floating after mixing.
I mixed half in, and then let mix for a couple minutes and mixed in the other half.
There is a skimmer type smell off the salt, But not too bad.
My lfs started carrying it because of them dropping red sea. Price is not too bad, If i compare to reef crystals its about the same cost per gallon. I'll give my test results in a few hrs, and hopefully if good go buy a couple more buckets as i use quite a bit of salt.
Oh and i heard they are going to start selling boxes of this stuff too so the bucket even though cool adds to the price. So if i can save a few more bucks the better.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Thanks for the info. :)

I did like that i used less salt to mix (15 cups vs the 19) i would have used on IO for a salinity of 1.024 for 44 gal brute can.

Why is that good? Aside from the weight of carrying buckets around, I can't see it mattering one way or the other whether the mix is more or less dense or whether some mixes already have some moisture in them.

[Creetin]

Well less scooping i guess is the only benefit. LOL I also like the fact i can buy a bucket and mix 225 gallons vs the 200 on IO that equals less trips to the lfs for salt. The bucket is quite heavy. ;)

I got anxious and tested after an hour and a half of mixing. The results being ok in most i was a little let down.
salinity is 1.025. It rose a little.
Ph 8.5 Good
Alk 10 dkh a little high for my taste, But OK
MG 1260
CA just over 1200 ppm around 1220.
I know if i raise salinity to 1.026 the numbers will rise a bit, But i dont think it would get the ca in range.
I noticed some white sand sitting at the bottom of the can that wont mix in.
I will keep testing each batch i make, But if it keeps testing the same i think i'll just stay with IO if i have to keep adding MG and CA. Its the same reason i don't use reef crystals.
If i have to add stuff to the salt i feel it defeats the purpose of me paying more for it

[HighlandReefer]

"CA just over 1200 ppm around 1220."

CA meaning calcium?

Calcium should be much lower than that. I would say between 350-550 ppm. :)

[dvenson]

there is a batch number on the side of each bucket and they test each bucket if the bucket sample you take does not match i believe they will replace it but don't quote me on that just what i have heard

[Creetin]

Oops good catch, Its 320 ppm.
Dunno why i thought 1200's eek 6 day work weeks take its toll on the mind

[HighlandReefer]

IMO, you would be better off increasing your salinity closer to 1.0264 (Natural sea water) which should bring your calcium & mag levels to where they should be, since they are a little low now. The increase in alk should be used up quickly and not be a problem. Unless you want to add calcium and mag to your mix. ;)

The bottom line for me is the cost of the salt mix per pound (provided the mix meets the recommeded standards or is close). ;)

How does the SeaChem mix compare in cost to IO pound per pound? :)

[Creetin]

$1.00 for 1.24 lbs of IO
$1.00 for 1.07 lbs of salinity
I dunno the math involved but ya have to factor in that there is more water in IO than Salinity but i would assume it would bring the numbers closer.

[HighlandReefer]

I buy my IO at $40.00/60 lbs which comes out to about $0.67/pound or almost half the cost. ;)

I'll stick with IO. :)

[cjtice]

Salinity works out to be about to be .37c/ gallon @1.026. That is if i buy it at one LFS that sells it at 85.00/ bucket. There is another LFS in the area that sells the buckets for 119.00.


A bucket of IO mixes ~150g @1.026, with a cost of 50 bucks. =.33c/gallon


So .05c per gallon difference per gallon with slightly better parameters. I personally have used Salinity and love it! Less dosing immediately, and I noticed less swing in alk and Ca between water changes.

The buckets that I have measured and compared with the printed results have been dead on using Salifert test kits and I also waited 24 hours prior to testing the batch of freshly made SW.

Chris

[cjtice]

I only compared the prices of IO and salinity at my LFS. Online you can find IO a bit cheaper but will most likely have to include shipping.

I found one store that advertised Salinity for 74.99/bucket online but it is not for shipping, they only advertised online for their in store purchase.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I buy my IO online when shipping is free. Petco sometimes has the best price.

[sjm817]

FYI, if you mix your SW in a 44G Brute, one of the 50G bags that come in the 200G Instant Ocean box is just about perfect. Doesn't get any easier than that.

[GusDiaz]

Be careful with this salt. I have been in this hobby for more than 12 years with reef aquariums. I have a 155 gallon aquarium with multiple acros. I gave the maintenance to this local aquarium shop about 6 months ago. 2 months into the contract they convinced me and others to change to Salinity. More than 50% of my acros died within 4-6 weeks of the salt change. This apparently happened to others because the maintenance person resigned and the aquarium shop did not follow on the appointments. After 2 months they came back to tell me that I had a contract with them to continue the maintenance. I told them that they could continue to do the maintenance as long as they replaced all the corals that I lost, reimbursed me for the 2 months that I did my water changes and maintenance to the aquarium and a reimbursement on the Salinity salt bucket that cost me over $90. Needless to say they release me of my contract.

I called Seacheam and they said that they did not have any issues with my batch number and cleaned their hands from the problem. Since then I returned to my regular salt (Instant Ocean) and in the last 2 months I have been able to save only about 25% of the acros. The other 25% continued to bleach slowly. All the parameters in the aquarium are normal. Ca 420, amonia 0, nitrite 0 nitrate 1-2ppm (pinpoint nitrate monitor), salinity of 1.024, digital aquatics controller and korallin denitrator (best thing I have added to my aquariums in the last 3 years).

I guess that the aquarium store (which has a good reputation) lost a lot of clients due to this problem, but Seachem also washed their hands from the problem really fast and did not even asked for the bucket of salt to do test on it. I still have it, but I do not recommend anybody using this brand of salt. This salt also have a very offensive smell when mixed and even the maintenance guy told me that he experience this every single time that he does a batch of this salt at any place.

Since my aquarium has stabilized I have started changing to Red Sea coral pro salt. I have had good response from the corals to it and hopefully I will not have future problems. I will have to slowly start all over again.

Something that sound to be better and expensive is not always good.

[cjtice]

Well, I as well as many other hobbyist that I know have been using salinity for months with no problem. I would be more likely to blame it on the maintenance company screwing something up.

[NoobtoSalt]

Were They mixing the salt and not allowing it to dissolve all the way maybe? I had a similar issue with kent salt last year with my mag up to 1750 and calcium at 600. Found out I got a bad batch of salt. Called up kent and they sent me a new bucket of salt along with lots of other goodies to help offset the cost of the lost corals. I mix my water and let it mix for a min of 24 hours before putting it in the tank.Be careful with this salt. I have been in this hobby for more than 12 years with reef aquariums. I have a 155 gallon aquarium with multiple acros. I gave the maintenance to this local aquarium shop about 6 months ago. 2 months into the contract they convinced me and others to change to Salinity. More than 50% of my acros died within 4-6 weeks of the salt change. This apparently happened to others because the maintenance person resigned and the aquarium shop did not follow on the appointments. After 2 months they came back to tell me that I had a contract with them to continue the maintenance. I told them that they could continue to do the maintenance as long as they replaced all the corals that I lost, reimbursed me for the 2 months that I did my water changes and maintenance to the aquarium and a reimbursement on the Salinity salt bucket that cost me over $90. Needless to say they release me of my contract.

I called Seacheam and they said that they did not have any issues with my batch number and cleaned their hands from the problem. Since then I returned to my regular salt (Instant Ocean) and in the last 2 months I have been able to save only about 25% of the acros. The other 25% continued to bleach slowly. All the parameters in the aquarium are normal. Ca 420, amonia 0, nitrite 0 nitrate 1-2ppm (pinpoint nitrate monitor), salinity of 1.024, digital aquatics controller and korallin denitrator (best thing I have added to my aquariums in the last 3 years).

I guess that the aquarium store (which has a good reputation) lost a lot of clients due to this problem, but Seachem also washed their hands from the problem really fast and did not even asked for the bucket of salt to do test on it. I still have it, but I do not recommend anybody using this brand of salt. This salt also have a very offensive smell when mixed and even the maintenance guy told me that he experience this every single time that he does a batch of this salt at any place.

Since my aquarium has stabilized I have started changing to Red Sea coral pro salt. I have had good response from the corals to it and hopefully I will not have future problems. I will have to slowly start all over again.

Something that sound to be better and expensive is not always good.



Sent from my SCH-I500 using Tapatalk

[camaroracer214]

i've been using salinity for a few water changes and so far i love it far more than any other salt. i haven't test calcium, but for alkalinity i got 8.5 dkh (3.03 meg/L) which is almost exactly what they put on the "guaranteed analysis" label on the back of the bucket. the salt mixes very well, stays clear, and doesn't leave any residue.

i have no complaints so far.

[GusDiaz]

I understand guys. I have been doing this for a long time. I tried to think that was the aquarium company doing something wrong, but I mixed the salt myself one or two days ahead, no different than when I mixed the Instant Ocean. I only left it ready for them to change. My wife was present during all the water changes and they do not do anything different that I would have done. I have taken over the water changes now with Instant Ocean with the same protocol and there has been a decrease in the loss of corals. I am a Plastic Surgeon and I live by protocols and consistency of my results. It is the essence of my career. This explains my elevated concern about following routine and consistency. The only change in the routine.....SALINITY.....

There is no question in my mind that there is something wrong with the batch that I have of Salinity.

The sad part of the story is that even when I try to bring this up to the company after multiple calls, they only say that their original test were within normal limits. Other medical companies would have asked for samples to try to see what is going on. Seachem in the other hand, after a few calls washed their hands and did not try in investigate a little more. I still have the bucket here, so if Seachem wants to try it and prove me wrong, they are more than welcome to have as much as they want, but I will send another sample to a private company and have it tested too. I will be receiving a HANNA HI 83203 Multiparameter Photometer Aquaculture bench unit this next couple of days, I will be able to test all parameters in light spectrum electronically instead of with chemicals (http://www.eseasongear.com/hahi83phaqc2.html). I will run some test on it and we will know if I am correct. As you all can see, my reef is my baby and I will do anything to keep it alive; no matter how much it cost.

With no offence to anybody in this forum; I always take an educated guess on everything in life, not wild a guess! That is why there is no way of somebody convincing me that Salinity is a better choice of salt than any other.

[cjtice]

I understand guys. I have been doing this for a long time. I tried to think that was the aquarium company doing something wrong, but I mixed the salt myself one or two days ahead, no different than when I mixed the Instant Ocean. I only left it ready for them to change. My wife was present during all the water changes and they do not do anything different that I would have done. I have taken over the water changes now with Instant Ocean with the same protocol and there has been a decrease in the loss of corals. I am a Plastic Surgeon and I live by protocols and consistency of my results. It is the essence of my career. This explains my elevated concern about following routine and consistency. The only change in the routine.....SALINITY.....

There is no question in my mind that there is something wrong with the batch that I have of Salinity.

The sad part of the story is that even when I try to bring this up to the company after multiple calls, they only say that their original test were within normal limits. Other medical companies would have asked for samples to try to see what is going on. Seachem in the other hand, after a few calls washed their hands and did not try in investigate a little more. I still have the bucket here, so if Seachem wants to try it and prove me wrong, they are more than welcome to have as much as they want, but I will send another sample to a private company and have it tested too. I will be receiving a HANNA HI 83203 Multiparameter Photometer Aquaculture bench unit this next couple of days, I will be able to test all parameters in light spectrum electronically instead of with chemicals (http://www.eseasongear.com/hahi83phaqc2.html). I will run some test on it and we will know if I am correct. As you all can see, my reef is my baby and I will do anything to keep it alive; no matter how much it cost.

With no offence to anybody in this forum; I always take an educated guess on everything in life, not wild a guess! That is why there is no way of somebody convincing me that Salinity is a better choice of salt than any other.


Look, I understand your concern, but I have worked in R&D for 13 years and would never jump to the conclusion that your result were the salt. I mean a root cause analysis would point you toward the maintenance company. how in the hell could a world wide supplier of salt send all of its bad salt to customers in one town that used the same maintenance company?

All I ask of you is that prior to ruining a reputation or trying to run seachems name into the ground, think about other options... It really could have been anything from some carbon that they had get contaminated, to them not washing the sunblock off of their hands prior to servicing your tank.


I do not question your protocol, just how you got to the conclusion...

[cjtice]

With no offence to anybody in this forum; I always take an educated guess on everything in life, not wild a guess! That is why there is no way of somebody convincing me that Salinity is a better choice of salt than any other.
No one is trying to convince you of this! We are discussing pros/cons! There is no 1 perfect salt that is better, there is only a better salt for different people/situations.

[GusDiaz]

I understand you point too. But in my opinion and today, I still think it was the salt. I am in the process of doing some test of my own that are more reliable than the normal ones. A photometer will give better readings and lab quality certainty. I will keep you guys posted on this progress. For the time being I an just trying to warn anybody about it and the lack of cooperation from Seachem about this matter. I am not trying to bash the reputation about Seachem. I use their calcium, mag, strontium, and alk replacement salts, but I will not use their marine salt.

I am just trying to give also a counterpoint. That is the basis of a open forum with discussion of pros and cons.

[cjtice]

I am just trying to give also a counterpoint. That is the basis of a open forum with discussion of pros and cons.

I will agree with this, but if you look at your first comment, it was pretty obvious that you were dead set on the problem being the salt and there was nothing that would change your mind. just sounded like you were another hard head in the hobby.

I would love to hear about your results, although, you will have to test a couple other salts along with it to have some sort of "control". Please feel free to PM me with any results as this is a major concern being that I do use this salt.

Thanks!
Chris

[HighlandReefer]

I see frustrations on both sides of this argument, which we don't want to end in personal attacks on one another. ;)

At this point, the argument is simply repeating the same facts. Unless you have something new to add, I would just let this one die. :)

[GusDiaz]

Hi HighlandReefer,

Not to worry. I would never go into personal attacks with somebody that has been very fair and educated like cjtice (and the rest in this thread). I respect also his opinion and I know he understands and respect mine. I know that is hard to give the negative counterpoint in something but I understand that nobody is angry ay me or attacking me. In the contrary, everybody has treated me with respect and listened to me. That is the reason I love to read Reef Central.

Thanks for doing you’re monitoring work and help keep order.

I will let you guys know if I find something in the tests that I will do on my batch this week or next week.

Thanks to all....

[cjtice]

Hi HighlandReefer,

Not to worry. I would never go into personal attacks with somebody that has been very fair and educated like cjtice (and the rest in this thread). I respect also his opinion and I know he understands and respect mine. I know that is hard to give the negative counterpoint in something but I understand that nobody is angry ay me or attacking me. In the contrary, everybody has treated me with respect and listened to me. That is the reason I love to read Reef Central.

Thanks for doing you’re monitoring work and help keep order.

I will let you guys know if I find something in the tests that I will do on my batch this week or next week.

Thanks to all....


Well Said! I will not engage in any personal attacks here and especially not over this subject.

I realize that it "sounded" heated, but I views it as a great discussion.

[fcmatt]

i was looking at a bucket of this salt but decided it was just too expensive. My LFS was
past 100 dollars a bucket.

When I can get a box of reef crystals for 45 dollars that does 200 gallons.. and i can mix
in a bit of TM bio-actif salt.. i really do not see the need for a salt that is being marketed
as "super duper high quality".

Honestly.. i should have never bought the bio-actif to begin with but now it is my way
of carbon dosing a bit instead of using it purely for water changes.

[GusDiaz]

I think that Red Sea or someone else sells a suplement salt that increases the calcium and trace elements of low end salts. That is what I use when I mix my Instant Ocean salt. I will look tonight in my garage.

[HighlandReefer]

Well Said! I will not engage in any personal attacks here and especially not over this subject.

I realize that it "sounded" heated, but I views it as a great discussion.

Thanks gentlemen for your response. ;)

" think that Red Sea or someone else sells a suplement salt that increases the calcium and trace elements of low end salts. That is what I use when I mix my Instant Ocean salt. I will look tonight in my garage."

I'll leave any discussions that may be brought up regarding adding trace elements to salt mixes to other hobbyists since I have involved myself as a moderator. :lol:

[HighlandReefer]

One thing about SeaChem's Salinity that I don't like is their guaranteed analysis of heavy metals when mixing it to 1.021-1.025 specific gravity range. All other salt mixes have levels below 3 ppb according to other data available in this article, which has undetectable levels of copper at less than 3 ppb.

See this article:

http://www.instantocean.com/uploadedFiles/InstantOcean/OceanKnowledge/ExpertPapers/Technical/IO%20White%20Paper%20final.pdf


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The is the SeaChem Salinity Guaranteed Analysis:

http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Salinity-Salt-Analysis.jpg

They are listing their salt mix guarantee for copper at 50 ppb which is above the recommend high level for reef tanks (30 ppb). Other heavy metals are rather high as well. According to research, some coral are effected at levels as low as 20 ppb copper. Hopefully SeaChem Salinity has much lower levels of heavy metals than their guaranteed analysis. ;)

[Creetin]

After the waterchange nothing negative, No cloudy water or the likes.
Will continue weekly waterchanges till the bucket is done and back to the IO when the salinity is exhausted.
Maybe a little copper will take care of the cyano i am having. LOL ;)
I have a uln tank i clean the glass once every 10-14 days, and then i its just a minor cleaning so i dunno where the cyano is coming from. Seems to be getting better with a bulb changeout.
Thanks Randy and Cliff!!

[bnumair]

i like the steadiness of elements in Salinity but i really dont care for all the white film it leaves behing on everything. my 55 gal mixing barrel is white in the lower half. all my pumps are white. but Sg at 1.025 ph at 8.4 cal 420 alk 9 and mag 1300 is perfect. i am switching to Red Sea coral pro unless somebody can give me a better salt mix advice just coz of white film. also as mixing barrels saltwater gets used and starts to drop down in lvel and pumps start to run more pressure at bottom half all that while film starts to dissolve in water again causing milkiness and raising salinity of water.

[rogersb]

One thing about SeaChem's Salinity that I don't like is their guaranteed analysis of heavy metals when mixing it to 1.021-1.025 specific gravity range. All other salt mixes have levels below 3 ppb according to other data available in this article, which has undetectable levels of copper at less than 3 ppb.

See this article:

http://www.instantocean.com/uploadedFiles/InstantOcean/OceanKnowledge/ExpertPapers/Technical/IO%20White%20Paper%20final.pdf


-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

The is the SeaChem Salinity Guaranteed Analysis:

http://glassbox-design.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/07/Salinity-Salt-Analysis.jpg

They are listing their salt mix guarantee for copper at 50 ppb which is above the recommend high level for reef tanks (30 ppb). Other heavy metals are rather high as well. According to research, some coral are effected at levels as low as 20 ppb copper. Hopefully SeaChem Salinity has much lower levels of heavy metals than their guaranteed analysis. ;)

The numbers and chart listed are very old. Over a year ago Boomer posted the same one and I emailed the company to verify the accuracy of the HM content. They emailed me back that it was an error and they have since changed the website. The new numbers are up:
http://www.aquavitro.com/Products/salinity.html

[jjmcat]

i like the steadiness of elements in Salinity but i really dont care for all the white film it leaves behing on everything. my 55 gal mixing barrel is white in the lower half. all my pumps are white. but Sg at 1.025 ph at 8.4 cal 420 alk 9 and mag 1300 is perfect. i am switching to Red Sea coral pro unless somebody can give me a better salt mix advice just coz of white film. also as mixing barrels saltwater gets used and starts to drop down in lvel and pumps start to run more pressure at bottom half all that while film starts to dissolve in water again causing milkiness and raising salinity of water.

Have you tried the seachem reef salt?Its not near as pricey and I have not seen any residue in my container like I did when I used the red sea coral pro.The red sea use to be my favorite salt but I think they changed the formula some where along the road.I used IO for awhile and even reef crystals.I think I will stick to what I am using now.This salt has given me the best results for my system over any other salt I have ever used.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The numbers and chart listed are very old. Over a year ago Boomer posted the same one and I emailed the company to verify the accuracy of the HM content. They emailed me back that it was an error and they have since changed the website. The new numbers are up:
http://www.aquavitro.com/Products/salinity.html



I personally would not rely on such a printed analysis, and it is internally inconsistent.

The amount of bicarbonate quoted gives an alkalinity of 3.5 meq/l. At the pH 8.5 they quote, and with that bicarbonate level, the alkalinity would be well in excess of 5 meq/L when carbonate is included. So maybe they didn't really mean bicarbonate? If not, what then? Or assumed all the alkalinity was bicarbonate? Why?

I wish they explained what exactly they mean by borate. It could mean lots of things, and only a convoluted interpretation gets to 15 ppm in natural seawater (that assumption being that they are not counting the primary portion of boron which is present as boric acid, and they quote the mass of borate ion present as borate ion, B(OH)4- at pH 8.5.

[HighlandReefer]

Randy,

If you continue pointing out their errors, they will eventually get it to look right. It's funny we brought up the copper a year ago and they soon corrected that along with the other high heavy metal levels.

I don't think SeaChem wants you to be able to figure the borate content since it has been high in the past. ;)

[ANGRY JOHN]

its nice to have some tech people around here to throw the bs flag sometimes. I have not used that salt yet but a lot of friends swear by it.