Filtration for my FOWL tank.

[zhewitt04]

I have a 150 gallon FOWL with a 55 gallon sump/fuge. I have a DIY protein skimmer and its not a very good one honestly. I have a large lion, tusk, and a powder blue tang. All are med to large. I am worried that my ammonia and trates are going to go through the roof due to the eating of these guys. When I put krill, silversides and mysis shrimp in for them its like a bomb went off with all the small food particles everywhere. I currently took all my crabs out becasue I read the tusk will eat them. I am currently feeding every other day. I am currently reading no ammonia and 5ppm rates. I just feel like that could change. I need to do something before they go up. Would a better skimmer fix everything? Or should I get a cannister filter with medaa in it? I also have a carpet anenome in there as well. Thanks for the help.

[shifty51008]

i would have at least 150lbs of LR and a good skimmer and that should be the only filtration you should need.

[Uncle Salty 05]

A better skimmer is a must, get one rated for 1.5 to 2 times your water volume. On a FOWLR with big eaters like you have will need lots of mechanical filtration. Do you have a drip tray or filters sock on your drain side of your sump?

[zhewitt04]

Ok a skimmer is a must I understand. I was thinking though what about a turf srcubber i heard that if you have one of those you don't need a skimmer. Is that not correct? I have no idea. I also have zero mechanical filtration. Do I need to get a large canister like filter? I also have no sock and no drip tray nothing like that. I only have about 80 pounds of live rock I will make some more of my DIY rock. That will take a month atleast to make though. Due to the curing processs. I will do a lot of water changes untill then though.

[Uncle Salty 05]

An ATS can help but IMO they are more trouble than they are worth and much more difficult to maintain than a skimmer which they are in no way a substitute for.
Rather than using a canister I would recommend one or maybe two of these:
http://www.marineandreef.com/AquaClear_110_Power_Filter_Hagen_p/rhg10620.htm
They are more efficient and easier to work on than canisters.
For an ATS you pretty much must have a sump.
If you plan on adding a sump then I would skip the power filters as well as the canister, it will set you back more money but will give many more options on your filtration methods.
If you plan to remain sumpless the AC 110s and a good HOB skimmer should meet your needs.

[zhewitt04]

I have a sump. Its just not a drip. I am sorry if I was confusing. I have a 55 gallon sump. It has a diy skimmer that doesn't work very well a deep sand bed in the fuge part. I have no sock on the inlet of the sump. I can put one on. I even have a sock lying around. I want to put in a turf scrubber it I can get away with a smaller skimmer. I would like to avoid the cost of a large skimmer if i could. I can get a smaller skimmer but the cost of a large one is very steep.

[Uncle Salty 05]

Do you have a picture of your sump?
How does the water enter it?
I would definietly be using a filter sock.
An ATS will require additional plumbing and lighting and the results gained are not as noticeable as those from an adequate skimmer.
I understand the money thing though.
There are lots of DIY skimmer threads on here, search them out and see what you come up with.
Good luck!

[syrinx]

For a preditor or big fish tank- good skimmer and fluidised bed sand filter. Live rock takes too much swimming room, and is more of a decoration in big fish tanks.

[zhewitt04]

Thanks Uncle! I will look them up.

Syrinx
I know on the skimmer I need to upgrade but what is a fluidised bed sand filter? I looked them up on you tube and such and not quite sure what it takes to make one and what exactly they do. Please tell me more

Sump pictures are coming.

[zhewitt04]

Here are the pictures. Sorry they are not the clearest I am using a camera phone.

[zhewitt04]

The second one is the inlet to the sump. That hose to the left is the water supply. Then that is the homemade skimmer you see. Then the first baffle. Then there is a center chamber that you can see better in the first picture behind the UV sterilizer. It is the fuge area with macro (not very much. The the last chamber with the broken baffel is the return chamber with nothing other than a pump.

[duncantse]

I say get a cannister filter and fill it all up with ceramic rings. This way, the nitrifying bacteria will have a place to colonize and that will deal with the ammonia and nitrite. You say your fish are heavy eaters so they will produce a lot of waste. With the cannister filter, you can feed 2 times daily, I just don't think feeding every other day will be enough for your fish.

Forgot one thing, I would squeeze some bags of ceramic rings in your sump too.

[zhewitt04]

I am hearing so many contradicting things. What should I do? I like the idea of a fluidized bed sand filter. I would like to even possibly taking out more live rock to add additional swimming area and this would allow that. I just need to understand what it is that it is doing and what I need to know to make/buy one. The canister filter scares me due to the fact that all that happens is the nitrates and ammonia are setting in there and when I go to clean it out they are released when I fumble the trays around. Could get huge spikes in no time. I thought i liked the ATS due to the fact i could cut down on the size of the skimmer i need since i will be replacing my current one.

I feel like i have more questions now than before.

Thanks to everyone so far. The advice and pointers are greatly appreciated.

[Uncle Salty 05]

I would put one of these on the drain line to the sump:
http://www.tbaquatics.com/shop/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=880&source=CashbackShopping

Fluidized bed filters are kind of old school but they are effective if you can keep them from clogging (that's where the filter sock comes in). They have a very large surface area for bacteria to populate but they are not as high oxygen as bioballs so they don't produce nitrate quite as quickly.

http://www.aquariumguys.com/fluidizedbed1.html?gdftrk=gdfV2226_a_7c1209_a_7c6562_a_7c199010

[syrinx]

Sorry I lost track of this thread. I am pretty sure the company that made them was sandstorm- although its easy enough to design something. I had one built by a friend for a indoor koi display that had 40lbs of sand in it- and kept over 100 koi healthy and happy. Restarting after power failures was only issue with that one. Concept is simple use a pump that outputs down into the sand chamber to keep the sand fluidised- and have the rate of flow such that the sand remains in the filter! PM if you want further conversation on this.

[duncantse]

The second one is the inlet to the sump. That hose to the left is the water supply. Then that is the homemade skimmer you see. Then the first baffle. Then there is a center chamber that you can see better in the first picture behind the UV sterilizer. It is the fuge area with macro (not very much. The the last chamber with the broken baffel is the return chamber with nothing other than a pump.

Cleaning the filter media will not cause an ammonia spike. You wash it in tank water so the bacteria will not die off.

If your only doing a fowlr tank and no corals, nitrates will not be a problem for fish. If your adding some kind of invert (CUC), then try getting nitrates <20ppm.
With weekly water changes, nitrates will not be a problem.

[syrinx]

An ATS can help but IMO they are more trouble than they are worth and much more difficult to maintain than a skimmer which they are in no way a substitute for.
Rather than using a canister I would recommend one or maybe two of these:
http://www.marineandreef.com/AquaClear_110_Power_Filter_Hagen_p/rhg10620.htm
They are more efficient and easier to work on than canisters.
For an ATS you pretty much must have a sump.
If you plan on adding a sump then I would skip the power filters as well as the canister, it will set you back more money but will give many more options on your filtration methods.
If you plan to remain sumpless the AC 110s and a good HOB skimmer should meet your needs.

Go back an read dr addeys study which was the creation of the turf scrubber- it was never intended to be in a sump- and required gravity feed of the effluent to make the system work as he invisioned. The sump ATS is only part of the system- which is why it really doesn`t do any more than cheato.- I don`t disagree with the ac110s and hang on skimmmer- just wanted to point out the ATS thing.