Clownfish with Broklynella, new tang added Help me please!!

[badstraw]

Hi guys this is my first post,well first, let me talk about my set up, I got a 64 gallon main tank, and my sump is 37 gallon.
I got the ASM g4 in sump skimmer, two koralias evo, and 2x54 watts ATI bulbs, my system is 6 months old, I had 2 clownfish back in november and both died because of the same problem, brooklynella.

I left the tank alone since january, but about 10 days ago I exchanged corals for a pair of clowns with one of my friends. He actually told me that both of them were swimming properly and eating like horses and they were living in his tank for the last 6 months.

This is my tank:

http://img685.imageshack.us/img685/5986/tanquel.jpg


First I didnt think about a quarantine tank because they were playing around in my display tank and eating properly, and i never thought they would get sick so quick!
Yesterday they were fine, they looked normal, but today one of them was swimming erratically and showed a big white spot across his fin, he was covered with a thin layer of mucus, like if it was little white dots on his whole body.
Sadly the clown died like 30 minutes ago, and the other clown is covered with mucus, he is eating but I dont know if he will survive for tomorrow.

Today I exchanged soft corals for an 11 month yellow tang with another friend because I didnt know that the clowns were sick, so I put him in a 16 gallon quarantine tank with a pump and a heater.

He looks fine, a little stressed but fine.

Im using water from my display tank in my quarantine tank.

Now my questions are:

Do I transfer the clown to the quarantine tank? if so, is there a possibility for my yellow tang to get sick?

Where do I get formalin? I live in Mexico.

Do freshwater water dips work?

What is the best treatment for my clownfish, I need help, I´ll post pictures of anything if you guys need them..

Help me please!!:hmm2:

[steelhead77]

If it is brook, you must treat in a hospital tank - by itself - with formalyn. This is the ONLY thing that will cure brook. Unfortunately if you can't find it locally within the next 24 hours, your fish is probably a goner. They must be treated immediately, otherwise survival is rare. You can buy formalyn from www.drsfosterandsmith and get overnight shipping. Since this is the second time you've gone thru this, you should probably order some for the next time - just in case.

Good Luck.

[MrTuskfish]

If you used DT water in the QT, the yellow tang has been exposed and should be treated. Formalin is the only reliable treatment I know of for brooklynella; but FW dips are used too. Funny that you can't get formalin in Mexico, you can't buy it in Canada either. Did you try a Vet? It may be Rx only. Also, be sure it isn't velvet (search this site & google), it doesn't sound like it, but they are often confused and you can cure velvet with copper. You may also find more suggestions for brook. What's the world coming to? I used to go to Mexico often; bonefishing & diving, I could find anything I wanted. Now, you can't even get formalin.
Edit; I re-read your post and may have mis-understood. Is formalin not legal in Mexico? If it isn't, any dealer should have it. Pharmacies often have it too.

[badstraw]

Thank you so much for your help guys I really appreciate that.
I bought formaldehyde but it´s made of copper, (100 ml = 4.5 grams of copper + 22 grams of formaldehyde)

http://img846.imageshack.us/img846/6059/20110415006.jpg

It says that I must add 1 drop per gallon..

Should I put him in a hospital tank to attempt the bath and then send him back to the quarantine tank?

What is the maximum dose recommended?

This is my clown:

http://img42.imageshack.us/img42/9011/clownn.jpg

[MrTuskfish]

I see the med is recommended for oodium (velvet) & crypt, (ich). I sure can't give a suggestion for getting the proper amount of formaldehyde (formalin). I would be afraid of a dip--because of the copper. I'm afraid I can't tell for sure if this fish has brook or velvet and I suspect you're running out of time. IMO, I'd dose in QT and hope it works. The copper is for velvet and the formaldehyde is often added to many meds. It may be enough to get the brook. But that is just my best guess. Clowns are hardy, so I'd dose on the heavy side. Again, that is just my best guess. I hope someone can give you more exact info before its too late. I feel I'm on the right track, but its still just my opinion and some experience. Maybe 50-50 chance of it working??

[badstraw]

Thank you so much MrTuskfish, I dont know what to do, I think Im going to try a 5-10 min. dip to see if that helps, Im affraid to dose the QT because I dont have a copper test.
I have an airstone and a pump running with water from the DT.

What should I do? please heeeelp Im running out of time..

[MrTuskfish]

Thank you so much MrTuskfish, I dont know what to do, I think Im going to try a 5-10 min. dip to see if that helps, Im affraid to dose the QT because I dont have a copper test.
I have an airstone and a pump running with water from the DT.

What should I do? please heeeelp Im running out of time..

Again, this is my best guess...I'm just not familiar with that med. You know the capacity of the Qt and the med says a drop per gallon (strange a Spanish product would use gallons) so dose at that rate, or slightly more. Assuming the QT doesn't have LR or substrate, the copper level should stay fairly close to what you need....if its velvet. The formaldehyde should be close too, if its brook. (If it was brooklynella, I think the fish would be dead by now, my money is on velvet.) As far as a dip: Copper, IMO, would be lethal at dip strength. If the fish looks strong enough, a FW dip may help. About 5 mins, remove fish at signs of extreme stress. If you can get a copper test kit and the fish is still alive--you may save him. We're really grasping at straws, buts thats all we have. The med should list the required copper level and lenght of treatment. BTW, hows the tang doing?

[badstraw]

Thanks again MrTuskfish, I didn´t know what to do because the fish started looking a little lethargic, and he was swimming at the bottom of the DT, so i decided to put the clown in a hospital tank with a pump, airstone and water from my DT.
It was a pain in the a** to get him out of the tank, he didn´t let me catch him easily with the net.
Anyways I tried the bath for 15 minutes in a gallon of water from my main tank, i added a drop of formalin, after that, the fish was transfered to the QT.

Check this video, what do you think?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tLsRiDZQszw&feature=channel_video_title

Ohh i forgot, i changed liters to gallons so you can understand me better, we´re speaking english :)

So do you recommend to dose the whole QT? its a 16 gallon tank, so should i dose 16 drops?
I ran out of money, so I dont have any money right now to get a copper test.. :(

[sjwitt]

From the video the clown looks fine as far as his swimming pattern. Doesn't appear lethargic at all. I also can't really see any spots but maybe that's lighting. Is he still covered in mucus?

What are the water parameters?

[MrTuskfish]

I really can't see any big problem in the video, either. Fish this far into brooklynella or velvet would be very lethargic, he isn't.

[badstraw]

The clown looks worse, he barely uses one fin to swim, and the other fin looks faded, now he is swimming at the bottom.

Check out the pic:
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/1433/enfermo.jpg


His fin is tearing apart, damn this is so sad!!

Help please!

Should I increase the dose? What can I do?

He has been taking a formalin- copper bath for 20 minutes, and he looks fine. I added 2 drops in a gallon.

Should I add formalin-copper to the QT? How many drops?

[sjwitt]

I can see the spots in the last picture ... over his eye. You have to just follow the directions and wait it out. He's probably very stressed already from being transferred and treated so if you push the treatment too hard you might end up killing him anyway. Let him settle in a bit and see what happens.

I've never used the formalin-copper treatment so I'll leave the question of whether to add it to the QT to someone who has. Treatments I have used instruct to dose the QT based on water volume for a period of time and do water changes. Does the medication you purchased have directions?

[MrTuskfish]

Given what you have already done and what you have available; I think you have to just chose your best option (guess) and stick to it. As sjwitt said above; this fish is very stressed. Your QT has a place for him to hide, just keep him as comfortable as possible and hope. If you do lose this fish; know you did what you could and make sure you're ready if this happens again. The common SW parasites are really easy to cure in QT, so have what you need on hand, research and become familiar with the common parasites, and keep new fish in QT at least 4 weeks. IMO, you have really made an effort to save these clowns. We do lose fish, especially at first, and IMO; you have really made an outstanding effort. You'll make a great hobbyist, just keep learning.

[badstraw]

mm Lets see what happens

[PZengel]

On a side note, I live in California and we can't get Formalin shipped to California. What other products does anyone suggest?

[badstraw]

Today is the 4th day of treatment, thank you for your great advices MrTuskfish, this morning my clown finally ate pellet and surimi (crab) soaked in garlic, he is no longer swimming lethargically but he is still missing one fin, like nemo.

Ill post new updates soon

[MrTuskfish]

Today is the 4th day of treatment, thank you for your great advices MrTuskfish, this morning my clown finally ate pellet and surimi (crab) soaked in garlic, he is no longer swimming lethargically but he is still missing one fin, like nemo.

Ill post new updates soon

Glad to hear it!

[badstraw]

My clown is still alive! he is eating and swimming, Ill post a video tomorrow.
I don´t really know if I have to keep giving him formalin baths just to make sure that the parasites are gone. He has been in treatment only for about 4 days.

What do you guys recommend?

[badstraw]

Today is 04/30/2011 and the treatment began in 04/15/2011, I treated the clown only 5 days in formalin baths, so it has been 10 days without any treatment at all.
He is eating, swimming and everything, but it has a white stringy poop, check out the video please.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gMfEiDDHAKI

What should I do?
There´s no way I can get prazipro, should I feed him with metronidazole instead?
Should I wait to see what happens, or what?

I appreciate your help guys!

[sjwitt]

White stringy poop can be a sign of internal parasites. You may want to try treating for that now. If he's eating good then you could just wait it out. In the video he doesn't appear to be bloated or skeletal ... seems very active too, so you could just keep feeding and be patient and see if it doesn't right itself; sometimes that's the hardest thing to do.

[badstraw]

Thanks, my clown is still eating and swimming, Ill post an update about his health in a few days..

[badstraw]

Update:

Today is the 32nd day since I transferred him to the QT, he is eating but he is no longer swimming all over the tank, that was a little weird, so I tested the nitrate and it was over 50!!
I did a 50% water change and my fish is still hiding in the pvc pipe, there are no visible signs of illness because he is eating and there are no spots, mucus or anything.
After the water change I tested the nitrates again but I got the same result.

Then, I tested the nitrates using water from my DT and I get 0, so what should I do?

Should I transfer him to the DT asap? or just wait a little longer because of the brooklynella parasites that can cause a reinfection.

Please I need help ASAP!!!!

[badstraw]

Please I need some help!!!

[MrTuskfish]

Please I need some help!!!

Nitrate at 50 ppm will not bother fish (maybe an exception or 2), certainly not a clown. Next time you're in your LFS, grab a water sample and test it for nitrates; it will probably eliminate any fear you have of keeping fish with nitrate of 50ppm. But WCs are always a good idea in a small QT. There must be something else going on. He's eating and not showing any sign of distress; clowns become very territorial as they mature, he may just be "hosting" the pvc. What are you using to filter the QT? Did you test ammonia? Is he coming out to eat? Breathing OK? Is this the only fish in QT? Pic possible? Don't panic, I have a feeling you fish will be OK.

[badstraw]

Thanks for your reply, Like you said, he may just be hosting the pvc, I don´t know.
The QT only has a pvc pipe, a water pump and a heater, thats about it. I tested ammonia using a nutrafin-hagen product and I got .01, I know is not very accurate but that is the only test I have.
My fish comes out to eat, and he usually eats like 5-6 pellets each time I feed him, and I feed him twice a day.
He doesnt seem to have a hard time breathing, it looks normal to me, and he is the only fish I got in my QT, let me show you a video instead of pics cuz I think you´ll be able to see his behavior a little bit better.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-ggL_SmAwVs

Should I transfer him to the DT now? today is his 35th day of quarantine.

[badstraw]

i would appreciate any help...

[badstraw]

Is he ready to be transferred back to the DT?? today is the 36th day of quarantine.

[MrTuskfish]

I assume you have other fish in the DT. If none of them have shown any symptoms of parasites, I'd return the clown. Assuming he hasn't shown any symptoms of parasites for over 4 weeks.

[badstraw]

There are no other fish in the DT, so I think I'll return the clown to the DT today, thank you so much