Defining the "perfect" onyx percula

[BonsaiNut]

Let's give this a try. Based on our discussion about grading clownfish, we need to have narrow descriptions of what defines each clownfish "type".

Let's keep these comments focused on body markings - i.e. striping, marking, coloration, etc. Assume that the fish we are describing has perfect conformation - i.e. perfect health, perfect body with no flaws in shape, fins, or other structure.

[this is me]

For me an onyx Clown has to have all black between it's stripes. That's the minimum.
Having the dorsal fin black and tail is a super onyx which are rare or takes a long time to mature to this level.

[Samcro]

i agree on the black covering and touching all three stripes. i would also add that the other white and orange colors be bright and vivid as well. should there be a specific section for well known breeders like Sanjay's black Photons and Rods Onyx? I have a breeding pair of Rods and they are amazing. I love this thread cause i have 150 and counting Rods Onyx babies. hehe i would love to know how to grade them when its time to move them out.

[MelloW33]

I'll contribute my thoughts on the perfect Onyx when I get home from work. Working a half-day today! I'll also try to get a picture of my onyx percs as I think they're pretty close to perfect.

[Creetin]

Super onyx eh? Does she qualify?

Heres a pic of it from the original owner. Its mine now, Just picked her up sunday.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v214/mi_reefer/onyx2.jpg

[this is me]

Yeah. That's the kind of I'm talking about!
How old is she you know? Usually, to get this much black, it takes a really long time.

[MelloW33]

I don't know what is considered a "super Onyx" but I wouldn't call that the perfect onyx. No offense.

[this is me]

I don't know what is considered a "super Onyx" but I wouldn't call that the perfect onyx. No offense.

Perfect is just a point on the scale based on your reference point. But why wouldn't it be a perfect onyx?

[Reloadeddevil]

What kind is this?

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee436/reloadeddevil/Atlantic%20City%20and%20biocube%20shots/DSC_0757.jpg

http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee436/reloadeddevil/Atlantic%20City%20and%20biocube%20shots/DSC_0756.jpg


http://i1227.photobucket.com/albums/ee436/reloadeddevil/Atlantic%20City%20and%20biocube%20shots/DSC_0758.jpg

[this is me]

Those are black and white ocellaris. Totally different species of clowns. Onyx are Percula.
The thing that's striking about the onyx is the yellow head and small part of the fin against the jet black contrast.

[Creetin]

Yeah. That's the kind of I'm talking about!
How old is she you know? Usually, to get this much black, it takes a really long time.

I believe the original owner had it for 2 years. He originally had a pair and lost the male, and gave up searching for one to match her in quality..
She is paired up with my wild onyx that is no where as black as her, But meets the minimum requirements for a onyx,
The only thing i would not rate perfect on her is the banding, But other than that i think she is the closest a breeder is going to get to perfect. JMO
This is a cquest clown.

[MelloW33]

Perfect is just a point on the scale based on your reference point. But why wouldn't it be a perfect onyx?

I personally do not like the black extending forward of the first stripe.

[this is me]

I believe the original owner had it for 2 years. He originally had a pair and lost the male, and gave up searching for one to match her in quality..
She is paired up with my wild onyx that is no where as black as her, But meets the minimum requirements for a onyx,
The only thing i would not rate perfect on her is the banding, But other than that i think she is the closest a breeder is going to get to perfect. JMO
This is a cquest clown.

Thanks. I had a feeling it would be of the C-Quest line. Great find!

[Creetin]

I personally do not like the black extending forward of the first stripe.

I think it adds flavor like the chops on a picasso. Just my pref though. I would love to see an onyx with chops. LOL

[this is me]

I personally do not like the black extending forward of the first stripe.

I think the black do actually bleed toward the head when it reaches the Super onyx stage(black dorsal and black tail). Can you show me a picture of an onyx with black dorsal and tail without this?

[MelloW33]

I think the black do actually bleed toward the head when it reaches the Super onyx stage(black dorsal and black tail). Can you show me a picture of an onyx with black dorsal and tail without this?

What defines a black tail? My female onyx has a similarly black tail to the one in the picture. Still some orange in it. But the black hasn't bled so far forward on the head. Maybe that's something that comes with age?

[MelloW33]

I think it adds flavor like the chops on a picasso. Just my pref though. I would love to see an onyx with chops. LOL

That would be neat, I'd like to have one that had normal bars but had the helmet like Doni's picassos tend to have.

[NirvanaFan]

How is my female Onyx?

[jt_milstead]

Both pictures are great looking. It's really all about personal preference.

[trueblackpercula]

I have posted this picture before some say its an onxy others say its a real nice percula.....Ill let everyone decide what they should call it. Yes they were wild caught and no i dont own them anymore sold the pair.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=213&pictureid=28909
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=213&pictureid=29719

[this is me]

How is my female Onyx?

I really like the female. It would be on "my" perfect list.

[MelloW33]

I really like the female. It would be on "my" perfect list.

Agreed

[NirvanaFan]

I agree with having all black on the body between the stripes of the fish. Fins don't necessarily have to be black though.

Trueblackpercula, it looks like yours aren't full mature yet. In your first picture it looks like there is orange just above the anal fin. Therefore, I wouldn't call yours true Onyx (yet). We have to remember that Onyx clowns tend to get more black with age. I'd be willing to bet yours will darken up into a full Onyx though.

[MarineBioHSU]

Creetin: I could tell that was a C-Quest Onyx from a mile away. Don't get me wrong, it has some nice black and is a cool fish in its own right, but I would not use that as a breeder.

I have owned over a dozen breeding pairs of C-Quest Onyx and sold them all, sure they have great black, but I am not convinced they are pure Percula, additionally they are severely inbred and it shows. Faces are smushed in, body confomity does not resemble a WC clown and stipes are also typically not great.

I love Onyx, in fact I am an Onyx freak, which is why I have gotten rid of all my Onyx and begun my own project on establishing an Onyx line. I have been working on it for some time, and anticipate that it will be a few more years until I am comfortable releasing them as an Onyx strain. But, the nice thing about my fish is that I will be able to track and show lineages back to the original broodstock, colleceted from four different locations. Additionally, there will be no sibling breedings what-so ever.

My goal is to produce a fish that looks like a WC percula in form and finnage, while selecting for fish that will darken up and stay dark regardless of lighting/diet/host etc.

Frankly, my personal feeling is that too many breeders have gotten some C-Quest onyx pairs, raised some babies and started selling them as their own Onyx, when in-fact they are still just C-Quest strain Onyx, which again can be spotted from a mile away.

That being said, I am happy for anyone that is pleased with their Onyx, however I do not think they should be bred unless they meet certain criteria.

[Creetin]

If you can get a perfect onyx that you cannot tell from a wild caught i would buy a pair. As of yet i have not seen any bred clowns that are perfect as the wilds.
This was my last perfect onyx,(wild) Forgive the pic it was when the fish was a juvi. It darkened up very well. I don't see many fish like it, and i am still looking for a replacement since its death. The male is close to this way in markings. With age i would think it would be a close match. IMO
I am no clown authority so take my ramblings with a grain of salt, :)
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/realcreetin/IMG_3323.jpg
http://i135.photobucket.com/albums/q128/realcreetin/IMG_3312.jpg

[phender]

..........additionally they are severely inbred and it shows. Faces are smushed in, body confomity does not resemble a WC clown and stipes are also typically not great.......


IME, these are not so much inbreeding problems as they are husbandry problems.

As far as my perfect onyx, I actually prefer not to have the black spill over onto any fins except for the first dorsal. To me the black on the fins makes them look dirty/messy. I guess I am a "color between the lines" kind of guy.

This is not a great pic, but I like the sharp contrast of the orange fins and nose, white stripes and black in between.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=678&pictureid=29775

[shabreeson]

that looks really nice phil, i if it was up to me i would label it as the perfect onyx and grade all others on how closely they resemble that photo.

would also like to say that the first dorsal should be all black as opposed to a brown

[trueblackpercula]

Dammmmm I guess my fish are less the perfect :)

[this is me]

Dammmmm I guess my fish are less the perfect :)

They are your fish. They're perfect at least to you. I hope. :D

[this is me]

These are my C-Quest line onyx(Rods).
Had them for over 2 years and they're the same size. Don't know which is the female or male. One of them has the full onyx coloring but the other one still working on it.
Might not be the perfect onyx for some people. But they're mine! :D
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144630&stc=1&d=1302044929.jpg.jpg
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=144631&stc=1&d=1302044929.jpg

[Dan]

Dug through some old photos to find some pics of percula clowns I have had over the years. I include some non-onyx types for comparison. "F" and "G right side" are the same fish.

http://raptormountain.net/100_1391B.jpg
http://raptormountain.net/100_1393B.jpg
http://raptormountain.net/100_2221B.jpg
http://raptormountain.net/100_2225B.jpg

http://raptormountain.net/100_0211B.jpg
http://raptormountain.net/100_1008B.jpg
http://raptormountain.net/100_1009B.jpg


I think "A" would make a decent color standard for A. percula (not onyx). Stripes not as straight as others I have seen, however.

"H" seems a good candidate to pick on for the onyx strain (breed). Still small in the photo (about 1.5 inches). The center stripe has good symmetry around a horizontal line. Straight tail stripe. I agree, a black dorsal fin really makes an onyx. I also like the onyx that have orange faces. It keeps the "clown" in clownfish. But just my taste.

"F" I would drop a few points due to the lack of a "knob" on the center stripe.

All stripes should connect on top and bottom. No headlights, tail lights, blue-eye, Montana Green, blah, blah, blah. And just to reiterate, nothing against Montana Green clownfish. Just not as a "standard'.

You folks have some seriously gorgeous fish.

Dan

[this is me]

btw, they're usually in the gigantea. It just that I can't get a good picture when they're in the gigantea because the flow in that section is so strong. They tend to stay more still when they're in the haddoni where the flow is much less and is protected by a barrier of rocks.

[this is me]

Dug through some old photos to find some pics of percula clowns I have had over the years. I include some non-onyx types for comparison.
Dan

To me, F,G, and H are all onyx and the rest are not.

[NirvanaFan]

Faces are smushed in, body confomity does not resemble a WC clown and stipes are also typically not great.


I think this has to deal with breeders more than anything. IMO there are lots of captive bred fish that should be culled that are sold. Anyone who has bred more than a couple fish knows that culling is something you have to do. In order to preserve the best possible traits of the fish, you have to eliminate the fish who aren't perfect.

It kind of irritates me actually. People say that captive bred fish aren't as good as wild caught because they see fish that should have been culled. I guess this is a whole different topic though.

Everyone who has posted pictures has beautiful fish. I wouldn't hesitate to put any of them in my tanks, that's for sure.

I don't think we're going to come up with a standard for Onyx though. Some like lots of black, some like the areas near the anal and caudal fins to be more orange. We're never going to come to a consensus what the perfect Onyx clown is, but it's fun to deliberate and see everyone's beautiful clowns.

[shabreeson]

i think defining a "perfect" onyx, or any other fish is very possible. sure, many have their own opinions but dog breeds have set definitions of perfect. imagine the strong opposing opinions they had to deal with.

posting top pictures and taking a poll could be a great start.

[MarineBioHSU]

Those were some gorgeous percs!

It is true that a lot of the issues seen in CB Clowns are a result of husbandry, however there are a handful where inbreeding is also a largely contributing factor....C-Quest Onyx being one of those.

[Gary Majchrzak]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/nov_perc4.jpg

[Gary Majchrzak]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/desktop3.jpg

[MarineBioHSU]

The fish on the bottom in the first picture is amazing, one of, if not the best looking Onyx I have ever seen.

[Gary Majchrzak]

The fish on the bottom in the first picture is amazing, one of, if not the best looking Onyx I have ever seen.thanks. That's the male. His dorsal was orange when much younger. For a long while I preferred the markings on my female :lolspin:

[reefdragon1086]

<a href="http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/saltwaterdragon1086/?action=view&current=529c8df3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/saltwaterdragon1086/529c8df3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

How about this wild one....

[SkullV]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/nov_perc4.jpg

This front fish (the male) defines my opinion of the perfect Onyx Percula.

[this is me]

<a href="http://s148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/saltwaterdragon1086/?action=view&current=529c8df3.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i148.photobucket.com/albums/s7/saltwaterdragon1086/529c8df3.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket Pictures, Images and Photos" /></a>

How about this wild one....

This is my definition of a super onyx. I love the black bleeding into the fins and tail.

[Gary Majchrzak]

how old is that fish and what anemone is it being kept with?




Phil- I'm in total agreement with your post and I love this one!
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=678&pictureid=29775

[hawgdawg]

MarineBioHSU,

what's with the change of heart? I remember not long ago you saying that the only genuine "onyx" clowns were those that came from C-quest, in fact I think you used to sell them for C-quest. Now you are saying that your "onyx" come from 4 different locations and that C-quest fish are inbred. I assume you are no longer affiliated with C-quest?

[DeathWish302]

Unfortunately until we collectively form a BOD, we will never solidify 'what' is considered the 'perfect' pedigree traits. While reading this entire thread, I could not stop thinking the majority of posts are subjective to individual likes.

Now I may be going off the deep end, but I personally do not care for Rod's clowns. I find they look 'mutant'. I have seen many C-Quest specimens and find those to not carry that same trait. So I would consider his clowns to be B1'+' IMHO. Not picking on Rod, as most of my Tomatos' I have bred in the last 5 years would be considered no better than 'A-'. There are very few 'perfect' fish from commercial breeders also, as I have grew out my broodstock for 2+yrs before deciding on what specimen made the broodstock cut. The BIG boys (SA, ORA, C-Quest, ProAquatix, etc.) are not producing 'perfect' broodstock either. I did find one Tomato female I grew out that I considered as close to perfect as possible, unfortunately she met her demise by her owner's hand in a rockslide about 6 months ago. :furious:

The next major stepping stone in this grading scale is setting up the orgaization that is the ruling body and convincing the BIG boys that it can help THEIR sales. W/O their support, the small sector of private 'home' breeders will not keep this campaign afloat. That being said, I as a sporadic home breeder would gladly pay the $20-100/yr fee to put the stamp on my fish so I may get a little more on return for my specimens. How many people are willing to spring a little more for an ORA grown coral when their neighbor has the same strain...? I know quite a few that have this mindset. Hopefully, a IMOBA (International Marine Ornamental Breeder's Association) would have this same hype and create a market that would support this coalition.

Currently there is a MI based webpage for breeder's (MBI - Marine Breeder Initative) or even MOFIB. We really need to escalate this to that level and the further. Maybe even piggyback on some similar non-profit organization that exists. Without leadership, this will go no where with only an RC-defined grading system.

This is just ramblings in my head at this point.... Anyone else with input?

[MarineBioHSU]

Hawgdawg:

You are right, the original name Onyx was coined by Bill at C-Quest. He used to the term to describe the "early blacks" which were essentially fish that showed black at an early age. After successive generations of inbreeding/selective breeding for dark coloration, we have the C-Quest Onyx.

And I did state that the true Onyx are from C-Quest, and what I mean by that is the only line of Percula that I am aware of that will produce Onyx offspring are descendants of the C-Quest fish. My frustration comes from people who have a good looking pair of WC Perculas exhibiting the Onyx coloration, who will then sell their offspring as Onyx before they fully color up. In other words, I think in order to call them Onyx by lineage, there needs to be substantial proof to back up the claim, having dark parents is not enough. In the past few years I have seen some other breeders putting out some nice Black Percs that were not from the C-quest line, and I would say they are close to being able to be called Onyx.

And to answer your other question, I think my tastes have just changed over time, as much as I love Onyx, I just can't compare any fish to a beautiful WC looking fish, and no amount of black on a fish that has a messed up looking body will please me. Maybe I am just stuck up lol.

And, you are also right that it is a bit hypocritical of me to assert that the only true Onyx come from C-Quest while then stating that I am working on my own Onyx line, thanks for calling me out on that.. :) Again, what I mean to be saying is that, IMO, fish should not be marketed as Onyx unless they have a clear lineage showing that they are from dark parents that meet the Onyx criteria, and that their offspring will exhibit the same coloration. So to that extent, what I mean by "my onyx strain" is that I am working on developing a line of perculas that will consistently produce "Onyx" colored percs, but that are not inbred, which is why I have worked so hard on obtaining broodstock from many different locals. Again, the hope is to avoid the inbred deformities.

That being said, I have to give Kudos to Rod for the way he raises his fish. To the best of my understanding he raises his juvie Onyx in a more natural setting that produces higher quality Onyx than are typically other wise being produced.

Geez...that was really long winded, sorry for that! :)

[Fig]

<a href="http://s246.photobucket.com/albums/gg81/fig1518/?action=view&amp;current=IMG_0564.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i246.photobucket.com/albums/gg81/fig1518/IMG_0564.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

Not sure if these are but were sold to me as Onyx. $50 for the pair

[chi]

Yes, she's about 2.5yrs old post hatch. Got a trio straight from c-quest and she's the only one that survived through the years (don't ask me, it was all because of dumb mistakes on my part, like not closing the top lid). She's one of the best looking onyx that I've managed to obtain, and I've had several throughout the years. She's in good hands now and I hope to see some babies soon :D.


I believe the original owner had it for 2 years. He originally had a pair and lost the male, and gave up searching for one to match her in quality..
She is paired up with my wild onyx that is no where as black as her, But meets the minimum requirements for a onyx,
The only thing i would not rate perfect on her is the banding, But other than that i think she is the closest a breeder is going to get to perfect. JMO
This is a cquest clown.

[jake levi]

Gary I really like your male, has he bred yet?

Also like the first two posts on the page, I like the dark black with first dorsal black and a good orange head.

Also I donot like the bulldogs and other should be culls that we see.

And, lastly would really like to see some of those hi-line Tomatoes, one of my favorite Marines.

[Creetin]

Yes, she's about 2.5yrs old post hatch. Got a trio straight from c-quest and she's the only one that survived through the years (don't ask me, it was all because of dumb mistakes on my part, like not closing the top lid). She's one of the best looking onyx that I've managed to obtain, and I've had several throughout the years. She's in good hands now and I hope to see some babies soon :D.

Thanks Chi! She is doing well, and has taken the male in. She approves of his home which is no where near the nem. LOL

[elegance coral]

What about those black/onyx perculas that change color? This is different from judging the "Picasso" patterns that don't change. The black color can come and go. Is an onyx always an onyx, or is it just an onyx while it's showing the proper coloration?

Just an example of what I'm talking about.
This is a pair of wild SI percs I had back in the day.
http://img208.imageshack.us/img208/7607/sn853369editedhr9.jpg

This is the same pair about a year later.
http://img353.imageshack.us/img353/8430/onyxediteddo6.jpg

[MarineBioHSU]

That is a good point elegance coral.

I personally propose the following defenitions:

1. An Onyx will be defined as a Percula exhibiting the "Onyx" pattern, but only called Onyx if it comes from a proven lineage where the black coloration is based solely on genetics.

2. A Black Percula will be defined as a Percula exhibiting the "Onyx" pattern, but its coloration may be dependant upon environmental factors such as host species and lighting etc.

That is just how I judge them, but its just my opinion.

[elegance coral]

1. An Onyx will be defined as a Percula exhibiting the "Onyx" pattern, but only called Onyx if it comes from a proven lineage where the black coloration is based solely on genetics.



Even in the C-Quest line of black/onyx/melanistic perculas, we've seen that the black isn't "based solely on genetics". This line has clearly shown a strong genetic trait of becoming melanistic, but it can come and go in these fish as well. There is an old thread around here somewhere about Rod's onyx losing their black when kept in BTA's. So, when a C-Quest percula, from this bloodline, isn't showing melanistic coloration, is it still an onyx?

[Arati]

This is my .02$

Onyx clowns are a product of c-quest breeding imo to qualify the fish must be from that stock. beyond that you have some with more black and some with less.

for the purpose of sales/ breeding. looking at a 1" fish no matter how much black thats on it or not on it. if its from that line I can be confident it had a high % chance to look a certain way.

since rods fish are c-quest .. they are onyx.

there are a few other people who breed really nice onyx , almost all are from that line.

when a png shipment comes in with some crazy looking all black percula, it should be describe as an onxy "type" clownfish. since there is no way to know if it will breed true or is just an anomaly in an otherwise mostly orange lineage.

If another breeder creates a lineage with a reliable coloring then those fish should be describes as " Name Onyx" like .. If I had a bred out wc line then call em Arati's Onyx.

saying just Onyx imo mean Bill Addison bred.

If you want to see what an A+ grade Onyx should look like , find Rods pictures of his pair.

[trueblackpercula]

Are we saying that the only way a fish can be an onxy is if comes from cquest? Onxy clownfish are man made or made from select breeding only???? I posted a picture of my perculas and they are wild caught. Now i am lost all together....

[elegance coral]

Are we saying that the only way a fish can be an onxy is if comes from cquest? Onxy clownfish are man made or made from select breeding only???? I posted a picture of my perculas and they are wild caught. Now i am lost all together....

The term "onyx" was coined to describe a line of melanistic perculas that were being bred by C-Quest. Before that, any percula that had a great deal of black would simply be called a melanistic percula. Some people believe that only the C-Quest line should be called "onyx". The problem is that we don't have a cool name to call all the other melanistic perculas, so people have been calling them all onyx, regardless of origin.

[jake levi]

Does Rod have a website?

I myself like the black body, and dorsal with fins lined in black and the orange face and points, to me that is very attractive.

I am looking forward for more on this thread.

[trueblackpercula]

The term "onyx" was coined to describe a line of melanistic perculas that were being bred by C-Quest. Before that, any percula that had a great deal of black would simply be called a melanistic percula. Some people believe that only the C-Quest line should be called "onyx". The problem is that we don't have a cool name to call all the other melanistic perculas, so people have been calling them all onyx, regardless of origin.

Got it......We could always call them by there name "Trueblackperculas" :)

[Gary Majchrzak]

Are we saying that the only way a fish can be an onxy is if comes from cquest? Onxy clownfish are man made or made from select breeding only???? ...
here's Bill Addison's full answer to that question (http://www.marinebreeder.org/phpbb/viewtopic.php?t=1586)

Getting back to the wild caught fish, I asked Bill point black - should a wild caught fish, bearing black flanks (black between headstripe and midstripe, and midstripe and tailbar) be called an "Onyx Percula"? Bill's answer was that there wasn't a correct answer to that question - "call it whatever you like" was Bill's ultimate verdict I suppose that falls exactly in line with the premise of "any fish showing the black coloration at 4-6 months is an onyx, if not, it's sold as a percula".

So.... there's onyx percula and the C-quest strain of onyx percula. (Or whatever you want to call them!)

Personally, I'm more interested in factors other than genetics that might influence development of black coloration.

Do people really believe lighting plays a part in it?

I tend to believe host anemone species is a much bigger factor.

[Gary Majchrzak]

Gary I really like your male, has he bred yet?
http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/IMG_4370keeper.jpg

[elegance coral]

Personally, I'm more interested in factors other than genetics that might influence development of black coloration.

Do people really believe lighting plays a part in it?

I tend to believe host anemone species is a much bigger factor.

There's no doubt in my mind that light and host play a part in this. I also believe diet plays a part. I have a clarkii thats been with me for years. I can change the amount of black she has simply by exposing her to different intensities of light.

Here she is under 250 MH's.
http://img260.imageshack.us/img260/6728/sn850836editedsj3.jpg

Here she is under one T5, with no real reflector, positioned about 2 feet above the tank. The black on her head has faded, and her soft dorsal has turned completely yellow.
http://img808.imageshack.us/img808/8550/clarkii002edited.jpg

[NirvanaFan]

I also believe that lighting plays an important role. I had a juvenile ocellaris in a small 10 gallon tank for a few months by itself. The tank received very little light in the basement. When I introduced it to the reef tank, it took it 2 months to regain it's bright orange coloration that it's sibling already had.

I think light plays a huge role in all fish coloration though.

[Gary Majchrzak]

fwiw: I had a juvi tomato (frenatus) raised in a "pea soup thick" phyto culture that received minimal lighting develop really intense coloration (and) it grew at a far faster growth rate than it's siblings.

I also had a black clarkii that remained almost totally black under 400w halides but was never bred.

Perhaps I should have asked if (specifically) does lighting have a direct effect on the amount of black coloration A. percula develops?

Does lighting play a direct or indirect role in the retention/development of black pigments?

[trueblackpercula]

Yes light plays a roll in color with out question.

[jake levi]

Hi Gary

It looks like he has bred ! Have you raised them up by him??

I asked earlier if anyone had a website for Rod, or a contact email??

Surely someone must have it.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I don't have contact info for Rod and I no longer raise clownfish.

[SkullV]

Hi Gary

It looks like he has bred ! Have you raised them up by him??

I asked earlier if anyone had a website for Rod, or a contact email??

Surely someone must have it.

Link To Rods Food Website (http://lmgtfy.com/?q=Rods+Food)

[jake levi]

Hi Gary

Wish you still were breeding them , I'd like some of his offspring.

Thanks SkullV for the link, I wrote him,I also interested in his foods but the nearest dealer is 4 hrs south of me, at gas prices that isnt normally doable, I asked if they do direct sales also,

his mixes are very similar on some I have used, but for discus and angel fish, I like what I read though, I will be interested in what his breeder mix is.

Thanks guys, its appreciated.

[elegance coral]

Hi Gary

Wish you still were breeding them , I'd like some of his offspring.

Thanks SkullV for the link, I wrote him,I also interested in his foods but the nearest dealer is 4 hrs south of me, at gas prices that isnt normally doable, I asked if they do direct sales also,

his mixes are very similar on some I have used, but for discus and angel fish, I like what I read though, I will be interested in what his breeder mix is.

Thanks guys, its appreciated.

I don't believe he's breeding any more, and I believe he's wholesale only.

[jake levi]

Well if he isnt I will be looking elsewhere for onyx, I do like the mixes on his food labels, very similar to what I used to make for angels and discus, but mine also had beefheart or chicken hearts and livers.

I am going to be looking again for fish roe, and possibly make my own to go along with the live foods.

[SkullV]

I don't believe he's breeding any more, and I believe he's wholesale only.

From what I understand he actually does have a batch about ready to go to us locals. Not 100% sure on that though.

[Banff]

From what I understand he actually does have a batch about ready to go to us locals. Not 100% sure on that though.

I was told there would be a batch this week.

[jake levi]

I wish the local folks well then, its a nine hour drive one way for me, the gas would be prohibitive. I sure hope some of these go to breeders.

[DeathWish302]

fwiw: I had a juvi tomato (frenatus) raised in a "pea soup thick" phyto culture that received minimal lighting develop really intense coloration (and) it grew at a far faster growth rate than it's siblings.

I also had a black clarkii that remained almost totally black under 400w halides but was never bred.

Perhaps I should have asked if (specifically) does lighting have a direct effect on the amount of black coloration A. percula develops?

Does lighting play a direct or indirect role in the retention/development of black pigments?

Interesting concept Gary about the Frenatus. These are my 'babies', as I have had this species always since my first SW experience. I have not had this same experience as you.

I've varied the phyto, dumped hoards of rots and grew phyto and rots together in an alternating larval raising tank and have always had the intense coloration. I have never had more than a small CFL above the larvae and usually tried using a blue bulb unless it was feeding time to control the intake of rots. The only brighter variants/strains I have seen are from ORA and C-Quest. I would expect all these fish grow in greenhouse style buildings that would let huge amounts of light in to eliminate an electric bill as much as possible. My main pair are under 400W radium and have never looked better, but the huge amounts of Cyclopeeze, shrimp, minced salmon & Spectrum pellet they are fed may account for that.

Culturing methods may improve coloration, as I have seen nothing but gross colored tomatos (if they were even true frenatus) from home breeders. This could be genetics driven and not environment. I believe when it comes to frenatus, nothing will beat diet for deep coloration IME.

[Gary Majchrzak]

I believe when it comes to frenatus, nothing will beat diet for deep colorationme too. I saw no correlation between light intensity (or photoperiod duration) and coloration in Amphiprion frenatus and this is why I wondered if lighting truly has a direct (or indirect) effect on the amount of black one of these percula will ultimately develop.

[MarineBioHSU]

Melanism is influenced by multiple factors, and it seems to differ in all species, however nematocyst toxicity, UV radiation, genetics and perhaps diet are the most likely factors.

There is lots of anectdotal evidence showing to correlation between host anemone species and UV light, but it still needs a lot of research.

I am really interested in genetically melanistic populations, such as the McCullochi and Black Ocellaris. My understanding is that there are a very large number of melanistic animals in the Darwin region, so it would stand to reason that this is why the Melanistic mutation in Ocellaris from that area is so prevalent, additionally the rubrocinctus from that area are fairly dark as well.

I would love to know what other factors contribute to melanistic populations, any thoughts/ideas? Like I said, from what I understand, in most populations of clowns UV exposure and host species seem to play a large role in melanin production, and as we have all seen Black Perculas often lose a lot of black when imported and kept in captivity, where-as Black Ocellaris etc do not, at-least not in a single generation.

Very cool stuff. (Another cool factoid, from what I have read, there has never been a documented case of melanoma in any saltwater fish...but it is often found in many species of freshwater fish....)

[deangelr]

I have a theory that the melanism we see in the darwin islands is to keep fish in these cold waters warmer.. i just pulled that outa my a$$ though

[stickleback]

This one is pretty much perfection in my eyes :inlove:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=150004&d=1306568299

:):spin2:

[stickleback]

This one is pretty much perfection in my eyes :inlove:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=150004&d=1306568299

:):spin2:

Strange, my pictures gone:confused:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=150007&stc=1&d=1306579480

Corrected the format???

[Gary Majchrzak]

http://i7.photobucket.com/albums/y270/gary334/percula_onyx.jpg

[rickyjai8]

Strange, my pictures gone:confused:

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=150007&stc=1&d=1306579480

Corrected the format???

WOW so nice even the face is about to turn black love it

[t4zalews]

My female before the tank crash of 2011
http://i626.photobucket.com/albums/tt350/t4zalews/DSC_0010.jpg

[schabiazabi]

I am shocked no one has listed the color of the belly as the criteria for the perfect Onyx. Try finding an Onyx with black belly between the first and second stripe and you'll see how few there is. Of course the black belly is just one of the features, but I believe it's the first on the list as everything else follows once the belly is black.

Two days ago I purchased my first pair of Premium Onyx (at least to me). I will post pictures once they acclaim better.

This is a premium Onyx from SA:

http://alphacorals.com/store/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/800x600/040ec09b1e35df139433887a97daa66f/o/n/onyx18left_copy.jpg

[ezhoops]

Eyes look photo shopped

[D-Nak]

The face looks a bit deformed to me. Has the bulldog snout. Could be the angle of the photo. As for the eyes, I'd expect to see more black, but I'm guessing the redness could be a result of the flash.

[k.tran]

All the onyx I've seen (roughly 10 pairs) from SA all have deformed faces...

[elegance coral]

I have a theory that the melanism we see in the darwin islands is to keep fish in these cold waters warmer.. i just pulled that outa my a$$ though

I like that.:thumbsup: You may have just pulled it out of your bum, but it is a very logical explanation. One that I've never thought of before.

[ezhoops]

My onyx at 1.5" from ibluewater
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/ezhoops/00000111111AAAAAAA13.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v654/ezhoops/00000111111AAAAAAA14.jpg

[Abominable Reef]

Here's my wild caught male (seller said from SI, but I think maybe PNG instead?) from about five years ago:
http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh468/Abominable_reef/newmale1_edited-1.jpg
And here he is today, tending the brood:
http://i547.photobucket.com/albums/hh468/Abominable_reef/Papa3-11-12.jpg

Solid black belly, BTW