In-tank refugium for pod production

[summitk]

I am thinking about starting a seahorse tank, and want to have an attached refugium for pod production and possibly a sump-incorporated refugium for nutrient export and to increase the total volume. I know that the consensus is that seahorses are not to be kept in refugiums, and I understand this reasoning (besides, it isn't really a refugium with a predator in it). What I'm talking about is a true refugium that is partitioned off of the main tank that is specialized for pod production so that the seahorses can have a constant food supply (supplemented with frozen mysis). I'm trying to look online for folks that have tried this, but I can't find any schematics. I'm just wondering if:

a) this can be pulled off in an aesthetically pleasing way
b) what size of a fuge and what contents/feeding regimen can maximize pod production for food
c) what size total tank I would need to supply 2 pairs of erectus

I was thinking of opaque acrylic with holes drilled in it (no need for reverse lighting or anything, as there would be another fuge for that) fed by an intake powerhead to "pull" water from the main tank and "push" it out through the holes. Another possibility would be to feed the return through this chamber to constantly push water from this pod fuge into the display. I like this idea because I think that the return would supply nutrients for pod production preferentially into the fuge rather than the display in general.

In the end, I am wondering if, in the perfect situation when I can get things running just as I would wish, all of this is actually worth it and the seahorses would be better off with this setup.


Thanks,
Summit

[mikencarol]

I don't want to discourage you...some of these folks that have been around along longer than me will chime in hopefully, but for me the Cpoepod production is nearly as hard as rearing the fry. I have several 5 gallon bucket cultures for pod production and I still can't depend on them. I keep my Seahorses in pairs and I would need a HUGE fuge to make much difference. PE Mysis is my main food, supplemented with some Brine and Cyclopeese, and an occasional live mysis. I love the Copepods for babies...and the pods grow and do reproduce...just not at a very rapid rate. I would like to have enough to rear some fry completly on pods, everyone says they have a much better nutritional profile than BBS or Rotifers. If I'm not mistaken, Jim Welsh in California has done this. It is a great idea if you can get enough info to pull it off. I'm gonna tag along cause I'd like to do it too!!!!!

[DanU]

In many ways this is a great idea but it does have it's caveats.

First you should be thinking frozen mysis as the main staple. What little pod production you can get is no where near enough to sustain the seahorses. The problem with copepods for larger seahorses is they don't have enough mass. Kinda like eating rice, 1 grain at a time. Their primary diet is larger prey items such as small shrimp.

Many of the larger seahorses will ignore small copepods. If you get a population of larger pods such as amiphods, this will probably be more enticing to the seahorses.

I have also had customers who have run into issues where the seahorses have slowly starved themselves because they did go after the pop population and stopped eating frozen foods. They spent all their energy going for the pods but there wasn't enough to sustain them.

Still, I think if it is set up right, it does have it's benefits. My preference though would be to set up the whole tank more like a refugium than the typical reef style tank, especially if it is larger such as a 55 gal or so in size. This becomes more like their natural habitat.

Dan

[summitk]

Yeah, I was thinking about the refugium only to supplement the frozen mysis shrimp (staples), though the story of the horses refusing frozen foods is disturbing enough to make me think twice of even encouraging this.

The reason I am even thinking about this is I have a fuge in the sump of my reef, and it's all chaeto and large amphipods (comparable in size to mysis), and it's a damn waste, because there's a large pump in between the pods and the display tank, and I never see them in the main tank (even at night). Aesthetics and practicality prevent me from having a gravity-fed setup, and I like the idea of incorporating a feeder ecosystem if it can benefit the system.

In thinking about tanks, I thought that a potential could be my current 65 gallon tank with a partition, though it's really tall. A 55 gallon would be rather narrow in a front to back direction to have a partition, and I don't want to partition in the side to side direction for aesthetics. I was also considering a cube setup (possibly a 60 gallon cube) with a trapezoid shaped fuge in the back with the base on the back, giving full viewing space from the sides and front, while using some of the back space for the pod rearing.

There are many thoughts I had after I set up my current system (which I got mostly used off of Craigslist) about what I'd do differently next time I had the chance to build a system from the ground up. I'm just trying to get all of the practical (and experimental) ideas out there so that this next setup can be more intelligently constructed.

Thanks,
Summit

[mikencarol]

The first time I had Erectus have babies was years ago. I have always been into live foods and I had a 15 gal aquarium absolutly choked full of amphipods. 3 or 4 came in on some Macro and I cultured them from that...anyway, I didn't know squat about Seahorses but about 3 or 4 months after I purchased them, and probably 2 months after starting to feed the amphipods, I had a tank full of Erectus babies...if you've got them in your existing fuge and you could somehow export them to your SH tank without going thru the powerhead a couple of pair of Erectus would be really happy with you...............

[timinnl]

If you think in a factor of 10 it will help you work out the size of your culture tanks.

I once counted out 500 live mysis (Not a lot of fun I tell you.) and added them to my 180liter tank with 8 H. reidi in there. I wanted to see how long they would last in the tank. Well two days later, they were all eaten up.

Live food is a great way to condition your seahorse or any other fish you are looking to breed.

The mysis and/or gammarus is a good choice of the larger seahorses. If you want dwarfs, I can give you a list of easy to culture copepods.

Tim