too low nutrients in my system?

[redhanded77]

Whats up folks, I need a lil bit of input and suggestions.

For the past couple of months, Ive been thinking my tank is too "clean" because of my pale sps and lackluster of color. I did a couple of tests today and judging by the numbers I got, I think I need more nutrients. Here's a little bit of background on my system.

Its a 120g total water volume system with about 150lbs of live rock. Lighting is leds, and I run GFO, carbon and bio pellets. I would consider my livestock bio load to be on the light side (small fishes). I have about 8 or so clams if that matter. Top off water is 0 tds. I feed about 3 cubes (mysis, brine and spirulina) a day.

I tested nitrates via salifert. I tested about 5 times and had a few different people read the color results to be sure. We all agree'd that there was no color and readings are 0.

I also borrowed a friend hanna phosphate meter, and we tested 3 times and everytime it came up 0.0. We then tested another tank in the house that hasn't been maintained and got readings of 2.08 and 2.06.

I want to bring nitrates up a lil and Im wondering if I should feed more or maybe take the bio pellets offline? Sorry for my grammar, as its late and Im just trying to get my thread posted. Any input, suggestions or comments are welcomed.

[dan-in-gr]

Hi, I stripped my water too clean and now feed more (actually need more fish), I say you are fine with the amount of fish food you are putting in and having zero nitrates. Mine read about 2.5ppm and also run bio-pellets. My tank is 100 percent SPS and Acro's and everything is doing perfect. The only changes I am doing is adding carbon and more fish this month.

[dixiedog]

Yeah three cubes a day sounds like enough food to me.

Other possibilities might be too LITTLE phosphates (it is possible to over-do GFO) or excessive lighting/photoperiod.

But I have the same problem and haven't figured it out yet either.

[redhanded77]

Thanks for the replies! For my system I have a 75g display that houses all my sps and clams. I then have a 40b that houses a few anemones, LPS and zoas. On top of that I have a 10g cube that I have a bunch of small clams inside. All three tanks share a 40b sump.

In the 75g here is my is my fish list....
-flame hawk
-4line wrasse
-4 pajama cardinal
-small kole tang
-small yellow tang
-lawnmower blenny

In the 40b....
-pair of black clowns
-4 banghai cardinal

In the sump/refugium/prison....
-clarki clown
-kleins butterfly (started to nip at sps and clams)

Im going to lower my photoperiod to about 8 hours dusk/dawn and 6 hours of full lighting (all leds and t5's on) and see if that makes a difference.

Before I go and start trying to change all kinds of things, Im going to start with one thing at a time and give that a few weeks to see if there is improvement.

[Alex T.]

Take the GFO offline. You'll probably see increased polyp extension and coloration coming back within a a couple of weeks. I did the same thing when carbon dosing. When carbon dosing, GFO can aggressively strip the water column quickly, even with 3 cubes of feeding. It's not that you're not feeding enough, it's that by the time it breaks down it's getting stripped from the water faster than your corals can take it up.

[evoi19]

Since you're running BP's, are you dosing any bacterial supplements like mb7, zeobak, zeofood?

[Breakbeats2334]

this is alittle bit of a shock to me.. do you mean to tell me too clean water is acutally a "Bad" thing for sps?i was in debate about getting gfo and putting it in a filter sock but now im second guessing it any commets?

[redhanded77]

I think Ill give the no GFO thing a try. Seems like a simple thing to do, and if need be, an easy thing to put back if it doesn't work.

What would be more ideal for sps? a little bit of phophate or a little bit of nitrate?

evo - no, I don't dose any of the things you mentioned. Should I?

Breakbeats - I was always thought that "cleaner" was better, but if it means lack of color, or pale, I think I rather have my water "dirtier". In my past systems, I had much better color when I had 5-10 nitrates.

[Cultivatedcoral]

You are starving your corals. You have a light fish load so not enough poop to Generate some food or nitrates and phosphate. You can have nitrate of 5 ppm or less and phosphate of .05 or less and you sps will be fine

Take your Gfo offline and dose amino acids and food like coral vitalizer from zeovit. If your nitrate and phosphate get too high you can put your Gfo back online for a short period.

Here is a pic of my sps with 2-3 nitrate and .04 phosphate.


http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/goldwindow53/Reversesunset-1.jpg


I think Ill give the no GFO thing a try. Seems like a simple thing to do, and if need be, an easy thing to put back if it doesn't work.

What would be more ideal for sps? a little bit of phophate or a little bit of nitrate?

evo - no, I don't dose any of the things you mentioned. Should I?

Breakbeats - I was always thought that "cleaner" was better, but if it means lack of color, or pale, I think I rather have my water "dirtier". In my past systems, I had much better color when I had 5-10 nitrates.

[Cultivatedcoral]

More sps pics with some nitrate and phosphate.

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/goldwindow53/Sunsetmille.jpg

http://i5.photobucket.com/albums/y165/goldwindow53/Redmille.jpg

[Toadally]

I agree with taking the GFO out. I had the same issue this past year while running the bp's. I took them offline and the tank made a complete recovery. I use GFO and carbon but just a small amount in a media bag in the sump. Even though my tank shows zero PO4 and NO3 the corals look really good.

[allsps40]

I agree water to clean. I have the same problem 0 po4 and 0 no3.

[jjmg]

The problem I see that isn't answered is lighting with LEDS. What does that mean? I understand 440 watts of VHO with certain bulbs or 400 watt MH with certain bulbs but how can you judge the water is to clean (?) without knowing if he has enough light?

[Snookster]

++ on the taking GFO offline. Easy enough to bring back if needed.

[redhanded77]

I just took the gfo offline, and I will measure phosphate in a couple of days to see if there is a difference.

I don't think having enough light is a problem. When testing PAR with my fixture, at about 75% full power, Im hitting 250ish on the sand bed. My led settings are 50% white and 50% blue. My tank has been up for over 6 months, and my sps was started at 25% power and slowly I raised the power by 5%ish every week.

[Toadally]

The first six months is the hurdle with SPS tanks. Your tank won't start taking off until about a year.

[redhanded77]

The first six months is the hurdle with SPS tanks. Your tank won't start taking off until about a year.

Well if thats true, then my tank should be amazing with growth! haha, the first 6 months, I have had awesome growth and color. My growth is still awesome, its just that I loss some pop as my system got "cleaner". Everything I had was started from frags.

Here is my tank now, sorry for the bad phone pic.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/redhanded77/IMAG0044.jpg

[redhanded77]

After taking the GFO offline for a day or two, I re-measured my phoshates and its at .05. What would be an ideal phosphate level considering my bio load might be on the light side for my system?

Im going to recheck in a couple more days to see how high the phosphates rise.

[JG1]

After taking the GFO offline for a day or two, I re-measured my phoshates and its at .05. What would be an ideal phosphate level considering my bio load might be on the light side for my system?

Im going to recheck in a couple more days to see how high the phosphates rise.

From what I understand, PO4 you want undetectable. NO3, 1-5ppm seems to be good.

[110galreef]

2 days no gfo & po4 went from 0 -.05. thats a big jump quick. ~ .01-.04 seems ideal. Assuming the test are accurate enuf

[Toadally]

Well if thats true, then my tank should be amazing with growth! haha, the first 6 months, I have had awesome growth and color. My growth is still awesome, its just that I loss some pop as my system got "cleaner". Everything I had was started from frags.

Here is my tank now, sorry for the bad phone pic.
http://i636.photobucket.com/albums/uu84/redhanded77/IMAG0044.jpg

I guess your tank is amazing! Your tank looks great! Good job!