DDC-01 PWM Controller question.

[Jimmy54]

Rapidled has got the DDC-01 PWM Controller and I think this controller is doing just everything I am looking for.
To aviod a bunch of MW 60-48P's I've decided to go for two MW HLG-150H-36B (4.2A) to drive 48 XM-L LEDs (2x2 parallel strings of 12 in series)
and one HLG-185-30B (6.2A) to drive 8 parallel strings of 8 XR-E Royal Blue's in series. Both drivers have PMW dimming capabilities

Would the DDC-01-PWM controller work on those drivers to, or is this controller only suitable for the 60-48P as stated in the Detailed Description (http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-159/DDC-dsh-01-PWM-Controller/Detail)?

[LargeAngels]

The DDC-01 controller outputs a 0-10V pwm signal so anything that accepts a 0-10V pwm signal will work.

[iziko]

We want some pic's!!!

Good luck!

[Jimmy54]

@ LargeAngles; thanks a bunch, that will make things a lot easier - I hope ;)

@ iziko; I haven't started yet.
The only things that I am waiting for are the XR-E RB's from RapidLed,
but it seems that customs is very interested in stuff from the U.S. so it might take a while before the courier comes knocking on my door.
And that's not really a problem, it will give me some extra time to cut, strip an pre-solder all the wires
and test, check, double-check and re-check all the stuff I have gathered so far :D

But I will post some pics - in a new thread - as soon as I've got something to show :)

[iziko]

don't forget to PM me when it's start :-)

[Jimmy54]

Because I am not sure about the settings of these controllers, as soon as I plugged them in and push the powerbutton, I would first like to test-drive the fixture using the resistor option.

If I read the datasheet correctely, does that mean I need a 100K resistor? and could I use a regular 100K potential meter to do that, or do I need another special kind of resistor?

[Jimmy54]

I'm a little disappointed with the PWM controllers.

I thought they were 0-10V.
The 10V is spot-on, but they don't seem to get below 3V.
Even with the Meanwell switched off I still read 2.7V on te dimming circuit.

Anyone familiar with this problem? or how to get around this so I can dim the lights a little more?
I don't care much about the max 10V intensity as I am not going to run all LEDs @ the max output of 10V. But I sure would like to have the possibility to dim the lights to 0 - or at least to 1 volt.

[Doahh]

Thats not how PWM works.

There are two different versions of dimming, 0-10v and PWM signal.
the 1-10v is just that, 1v its something like 10% 10v 100% etc.
a PWM signal just switches that 10v signal on and off really, really fast.

[Jimmy54]

Yes, I know, but fully up the dimming-circuit reads 10V and 3V when it's fully dimmed, so my "logical way" of thinking was; there might be some relation there.
According the datasheet of the HLG-185-30B, which I use to run 64 RBs from, the output should be 10% when the signal is 100Hz -
and 100% when that signal is 3KHz. The driver is doing 6.2A, so 8 strings of 8 royal blues should be running at ~760 at full power which they do,
but checking the strings when the contoller is fully dimmed, it seems they're running at ~250mA.
10% of 6.2A is 620mA and I'm getting 250*8 strings is 2A , that's more like 30% instead of 10%.
When 10v corresponds with 100% I figured 10% would be corresponding with 1V, so 3V would've make sense since I have 30% dimming.

However - is there a way to solve this problem. 250mA doesn't exactly give me that sunrise and sunset effect.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

This is a manufactured, off the shelf product from a reputable vendor - I would suggest that you might get better answers by contacting their customer service vs. asking us. There may be many people on this forum knowledgeable about LED controllers and embedded computing in general, but none of us know anything about the guts of that particular device.

[LargeAngels]

From talking to RapidLEd the DDC-01 was designed for the MW 48P. The MW 48P starts dimming at 11% (one of the reasons I went with the CAT's) so instead of having the controller starting at 0 and just going through the motions with nothing happening until 11% they have the controller output start around the 11%.

[Jimmy54]

While I'm still looking for a solution and considering an Arduino at the same time, I found this statement and diagram from "katchupoy".


And for those people who want to buy "P" driver now but will not do arduino now? Then go ahead but the "P" since it will also work with the 10v (non PWM) and pot configuration. You can still dim it via a POT. So its a win win situation.

When I replace the Arduino in the diagram for a PWM controler from Rapid, could that be the solution I'm looking for?


http://66.213.194.54/__caddnima/MYREEF/IMAGES/2011-01-30%20-%20ARDUINO/WiringDiagNPN.jpg

[ronsonol]

Jimmy, the setup in that picture only compensates for the fact the arduino cannot supply more than 5v directly to the drivers. Instead, the arduino is used to ground the signal to the transistor, and the transistor supplies 10v from the wall supply to the drivers. Swapping to an arduino only gives you control over the PWM singal since you have to code it.

With your PWM controller not connected to dimming wires (or meanwell off), on the lowest setting, if you still read 3 volts...then the problem is with the PWM controller. Contact rapidled and ask if this is by design. I can see them coding 1-10v as a starting point to keep it inline with documentation but not 3-10v.

If you recall the problem I had was the reverse, where my PWM controller would output as low as 0 volts, but the meanwell dim wires still had 1.75v on them - from the drivers itself. I jumpered a 1k resistor across to drop that to about 0.2v.

[Jimmy54]

I don't think I'm going to contact or "bother" RapidLed with this ... yet. I'm sure their answer will be clear.

Dispite the fact that both drivers have PWM dimming, the DDC controller is probably designed for just the ELN (P) series and not for the HLG (B) series.
Whit the controllers unplugged I still can see 0.5 volt,
8x8 RBs @ 85mA from an HLG 185, 4x10 CWs @ 75 from an HLG-150 and 2x8 NWs still @ 180mA also from an HLG 150.

I haven't test them yet but I have two ELN (P) drivers for a little expansion I'm about to make.
My guess would be that running 12,13 or 14 LEDs from an ELN and turn the SVR down to 700mA, you will get to see what the controller is supposed to do.
Dimming 4.2A, or even 6.2A is probably another story.

If it is what I think it is, I'm going to switch to arduino afterall.

[LargeAngels]

First get the data sheet for the HLG's and see if the drivers start at 1% or if they are just like the P and D which start at 11% and 5%. If they are just like the P or D then using the Arduino won't make a difference. I went with CAT's and Arduino to be able to take full advantage of the PWM capabilities.

[ronsonol]

Whit the controllers unplugged I still can see 0.5 volt,


Where is the 0.5 volts your testing. Is it the voltage on the dim wires of the meanwell, or the voltage on the PWM output from controller when at minimum?

The rapidled controller won't be designed just to work with the ELN-P, rather the slope of the voltage might just be tailored for it to start with manufacture specs. But we still need a verified reading of voltage on the output from the PWM controller with the dim settings at minimum.

What I've learned from my HLG setup, is that the minimum voltage on the meanwell dim wires with no controller attached will be the minimum it will let you dim. This was a big problem for me, because even with my arduino outputting 0v, the meanwell's still had 1.75v...making the lights run at 175ma.

In other words, since my meanwell had 1.75v minimum on the dim circuit...if my arduino was also outputting 0v I'd see I'd still have 1.75v on dim. If my arduino was giving 1v I'd see something like 2.75v on dim. Weird but true.

[Jimmy54]

Thanks for the answers.
@ LargeAngels,
Unlike the data sheet for the ELN 60-48, which shows a graph of the dutycycle related to the output current (t1 and t2),
the data sheet for the HLG 150 or HLG 185 says only;
10V PWM signal for output current adjustment
Percentage rated current 10%>100% and Duty value 10% >100%.
No further info on PWM dimming, and that worries me.

@ronsonol,
The 0.5 volts I'm testing is when the DDC dimmer is shutdown - completely dead -
and it's on the output of the DDC dimmer where the dim wires from the drivers are too. (duh)
When the DDC dimmer is at minimum it reads 3V.

I haven't test just the dim wires from the HLG, if that's what you mean.
I suppose I need to disconnect everyting from the driver in order to test just the dim wires. (I always thought it was a big no-no to power on the driver with no LEDS or anything on it)

[ronsonol]

When the PWM controller is completely dead, and you test and get 0.5v at dim wires, thats the same as disconnecting the controller from the driver.

I think its safe to say the PWM controller is programmed wrong. Maybe that is by design/hardcoded, or maybe its still user configurable. Since you have 0.5 default on meanwell dim wires, you'll add the voltage from the controller I think.

Unless you get get it down to 0v, the min dim levels you'll see are 0.5v + output from pwm controller. Fire off an email to rapidled, ask what min voltage should be. If its 1v, and you can configure it differently, then maybe you can try a resistor to bring the total voltage down even further like I have.

[LargeAngels]

Thanks for the answers.
@ LargeAngels,
Unlike the data sheet for the ELN 60-48, which shows a graph of the dutycycle related to the output current (t1 and t2),
the data sheet for the HLG 150 or HLG 185 says only;
10V PWM signal for output current adjustment
Percentage rated current 10%>100% and Duty value 10% >100%.
No further info on PWM dimming, and that worries me.


My guess is that all MW's do not go down to 0.

[LargeAngels]

This is from RapidLED on the PWM.

Sunrise is designed to begin at 11%, because the driver doesn't actually kick in until around then (if we started at 0% then you would have ~4-7 minutes of nothing actually happening at the beginning of the cycle) so you'll see the lights barely on. Sunset would be the same situation in reverse, so it would stop at the same 11%.

[Jimmy54]

Yes I know, that's exactly what the data sheet for the ELN-60-48 says.