Algae Control / Phosphates Part 3

[travis32]

Numerous months ago, I had posted my saga on my Hair algae outbrake.

Summary: Rock went through mass ammonia crash / die off. Scrubbed rock down, reused rock.

1 month later, mass algae cycle, diatoms, briopsis, and massive hair algae outbrake. I implemented NUMEROUS measures to control the HAIR algae including but not limited to starting an ATS (algae scrubber).

The results so far are that I have successfully irradicated around 90% of the hair algae. What pops up I do my best to hand pull.

However...... My madness to defeat this has led to a new problem.... Remember the whole survival of the fittest thing. Well, my tank said screw you. If HA can't live, then something else will. Well, the Briopsis took over where the HA left off. It's not nearly as bad as the HA was.... (I lost site of entire corals because they were burried in HA and had HA growing off them.)

A majority of that is rosolved now.. The briopsis is persistant, but my scrubber has only been up around 2 months now. So, I'm in the hopes that another 2-3 months and the briopsis will recede.

I was just wondering if an algecide would be useful in restricting growth of briopsis. I realize it would kill the scrubber too... DOH... But, something like lanthenum chloride, would that cause the algae to die off in the display for long enough for the scrubber to pick up before the display could take off again?

Kinda like starting over on both, but giving the ATS a head start. I happy with the results of the scrubber so far, just trying to help speed the process along. I realize nothing happens fast, but 6-8 months to clear up something that happened in less than 2-3 weeks seems extreme..

Part of that is my ignorance. But, hey, I'm still learning. :)

[Reefer33]

Lanthenum chloride will only tie up your phospate and does nothing for nitrate. I don't know if you're having trouble with Nitrates too? Sounds to me like your rock might be leaching phosphate back into the water. Correct me if I'm wrong Chemists, but every time you get a lower concentration of phosphate level outside of the rock the rock will leach back out phospate to get back into equilibrium and this can be a viscious cycle. Strip out phosphate, export phosphate, lower phosphate concentration in tank water, leach back out to equilibrium from rock and this goes on and on and on until you deplete your rock of all bound up phosphate. Sounds like you've gotten to the point though where maybe your rock isn't leaching out so much phosphate since your HA is getting under control but that could be b/c you have ATS? As for byropsis, I've heard of keeping your magnesium level elevated at 1500ppm+ can help alleviate byropsis. Might give that a try?

[bertoni]

Some people have luck with dosing Kent Tech-M to control Bryopsis. Something like AlgaeFix might be worth checking, but I'm not sure that it works on Bryopsis. There is a long thread about it, though.

I agree that live rock can adsorb and then release phosphate, and that's likely a continuing issue. Is any of the Bryopsis easy to reach by hand? If so, spending a few minutes each week pulling out what's easy to get might help. The pruning will eliminate nutrients over time, but the timespan required might be very large.

[MaLi]

Some people have luck with dosing Kent Tech-M to control Bryopsis. Something like AlgaeFix might be worth checking, but I'm not sure that it works on Bryopsis. There is a long thread about it, though.

I agree that live rock can adsorb and then release phosphate, and that's likely a continuing issue. Is any of the Bryopsis easy to reach by hand? If so, spending a few minutes each week pulling out what's easy to get might help. The pruning will eliminate nutrients over time, but the timespan required might be very large.

Jon is right. Tech-M will eventually help with Briopsis. Mind that the common knowledge is that THIS particular brand of Mg additive is the only one that works. So, may not be only Mg but also the trace elements, no one knows at this time. Mind also that high Mg is really dangerous for inverts. Take them out if you care about them.

hope it helps,
Marian

[travis32]

I run my MG regularly at elevated levels with mixed corals. I've got everything from Softies, LPS, to SPS. SPS growth has slowed some recently, but, it's not receding, great coloration, and continues to have growth patterns. My LPS - Acans, frogspawn, couple torches, all show rapid growth rates. I have a wall of frog spawn that have easily doubled in heads over the last 2-3 months. I started out with mabey 10-12 heads 5 months ago. It's well over 20 heads now.

I have softies that are growing great. I can't complain about the corals. I have one coral showing signs of recession. That's a nice lobo. Most of the flesh shows awesome color, but one end that was closest to the sand shows signs of bleaching and receding. However, I didn't know how to feed it. I've started feeding it and it's got color again, the flesh seems to have stopped receeding. We'll see.

All that to say, this all happening with me keeping my MG elevated at around 1450. (Just tested it Sunday.)

Snails seem to be doing great as well as Crabs. Anemone is awesome. Clams appear well.

I know it's all circumstantial, but, maybe they've adapted to the higher MG levels?

I have no doubt it's leaching from the rock. I was hoping the scrubber could compete with the rock leaching and more or less "suck it out" of the rocks over time.

Some of it is reachable by hand. but It's much better anchored than the Hair algae, I may get a few tufts and twice as many escape to relocate in the water column. ......

The fish pull on it and actually chew on it. But, there's just too much for anything to make a dent. Some of it because it's so well anchored, I've ended up toppling my rock structures trying to pull it off..

I'll check on tech M, and monitor MG more closely if I go for it. I wouldn't want to raise it much over 1500, but I do have Macro algae that use MG. (In theory). So if it does get too high, it will easily be brought down within a few days. My 6 mangroves are doing awesome in my sump. One of them is finally leafing out. It's pretty neat. The others have very nice looking roots, so they'll start leafing soon too.

[MaLi]

I run my MG regularly at elevated levels with mixed corals. I've got everything from Softies, LPS, to SPS. SPS growth has slowed some recently, but, it's not receding, great coloration, and continues to have growth patterns. My LPS - Acans, frogspawn, couple torches, all show rapid growth rates. I have a wall of frog spawn that have easily doubled in heads over the last 2-3 months. I started out with mabey 10-12 heads 5 months ago. It's well over 20 heads now.

I have softies that are growing great. I can't complain about the corals. I have one coral showing signs of recession. That's a nice lobo. Most of the flesh shows awesome color, but one end that was closest to the sand shows signs of bleaching and receding. However, I didn't know how to feed it. I've started feeding it and it's got color again, the flesh seems to have stopped receeding. We'll see.

All that to say, this all happening with me keeping my MG elevated at around 1450. (Just tested it Sunday.)

Snails seem to be doing great as well as Crabs. Anemone is awesome. Clams appear well.

I know it's all circumstantial, but, maybe they've adapted to the higher MG levels?

I have no doubt it's leaching from the rock. I was hoping the scrubber could compete with the rock leaching and more or less "suck it out" of the rocks over time.

Some of it is reachable by hand. but It's much better anchored than the Hair algae, I may get a few tufts and twice as many escape to relocate in the water column. ......

The fish pull on it and actually chew on it. But, there's just too much for anything to make a dent. Some of it because it's so well anchored, I've ended up toppling my rock structures trying to pull it off..

I'll check on tech M, and monitor MG more closely if I go for it. I wouldn't want to raise it much over 1500, but I do have Macro algae that use MG. (In theory). So if it does get too high, it will easily be brought down within a few days. My 6 mangroves are doing awesome in my sump. One of them is finally leafing out. It's pretty neat. The others have very nice looking roots, so they'll start leafing soon too.

1450 ppm is not considered elevated. To fight Briopsis people went up close to 2000 ppm. At this level you will see your inverts knocked down.

cheers,
Marian.

PS. I don't think 1450 ppm Mg level will help you fight Briopsis. Search this forum for guidance.

[travis32]

I thought between 1500 -1700 was the range most went to. I could be wrong, I agree, 2000 seems a bit excessive and I'm not looking for creative ways to kill livestock. other than algae.