Losing all color...please help

[Bruce Wayne]

I have a 60 gallon, standard dimensions, about a year old. Equipment: Octopus extreme 160, Quiet1 4400 HH return, Vortech mp10 (full blast), phosphate reactor, carbon reactor (might have too much carbon, is that a problem?), about 60 lbs of LR in display and sump. I had Icape 660 4x80w overdriven T5s (just changed the bulbs 2 months ago), last week a friend said I had too much light too low to the water so I went to a regular 4x54w T5 fixture (is there another ballast I can switch out so I can keep my canopy?) I am trying anything, all my corals, not just SPS have lost tons of color

Parameters: CA: 420; Alk: 8.3; Nitrates and Phosphates: Undetectable; salinity 1.026; temp 77-80

water changes: 10 gallons every week (esv bionic salt mix w RO...I think the RODI needs new filters)

Livestock: yellow tang, midas blenny, pair of ora clowns, lawnmower, mandarin dragonette, and a little dottyback, yellow tang is 3.5 inches, the rest are tiny...
acros, milies, birdsnests, monitporas, acans, zoas...mostly frags but some mini colonies

Is that too much light too close to the water?
<a href="http://s39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/mogphotobucket/?action=view&amp;current=IMG-20110422-00125.jpg" target="_blank"><img src="http://i39.photobucket.com/albums/e197/mogphotobucket/IMG-20110422-00125.jpg" border="0" alt="Photobucket"></a>

thanks :wave:

[Chris Lakies]

Water perams? U cant have too much light unless the corals were new and not acclimated. How old r the bulbs ur using?

[Bruce Wayne]

info updated*

[Chris Lakies]

Have u tested magnesium?

[Bruce Wayne]

1350 MG the crazy thing is that my corals are growing, and they have NO color...I think I may have too much carbon in my reactor...

[Chris Lakies]

How much are you feeding? Maybe not enough nutrients for them.

[Bruce Wayne]

I feed very little because there is algae...about 1/6th of a mysis cube, sometimes less...

[sanchoy]

not enough light. t-5 aint gonna cut it. is my opinion.

Sps will lose color due to:

- excessive nutrients (nitrates,phosphates)
-not enough food
-not enough light
-too much light when acclimating (bleaching) -I don't think this is the case though

[aquavista99]

I would recommend taking a water sample from your reef to your local fish shop to verify if your parameters are good for sps. Most difficult to keep acropora corals require super clean water, with lots of light and flow and constant or stable water parameters(Calc, alk, etc). In other words, if you have excessive nutrients and/or do not provide enough light and random, indirect flow, your acros will be the first corals in you reef to let you know they are not happy (ie, loss of color, bleaching, etc). Maintaining stable water parameters is also very important for SPS success.

[Dog boy Dave]

Healthy corals in good water will show decent color under t5s. They may not pop like they do under halides but they wont be brown. Leave your lights alone until you get the corals healty under the t5s. Go after your water quality all the way. That doesnt always mean "low" nutrient. In your case you may have the nutrients too lo.
Good water quality is a function of a properly established nitrogen cycle in your tank. Whether you decide to tackle the cycle by driving the waste out with carbon dosing and heavy stripping or choose to do so with deep sand beds and live rock you still need some waste to establish an active cycle. While we say we are trying to establish a lo nutrient environment for our tanks, what we are really trying to do is establish a complete nitrogen cycle. Problems will be manifest when we have a part of the cycle where it "stalls". This leads to the build up a some component of the cycle which causes problems in the system.
Do some research regarding the different strategies to establish a nitrogen cycle. While I sometimes have trouble trouble shooting my own system right here in my living room and hesitate to do so unline to someone elses system, in this case it looks like you may have too little nutrient in your cycle. Based on the info you posted, your system may be a candidate for carbon dosing.
In the long run, you can get the same results by adding enough grazers to eat the algae that will grow in a healthy reef environment but honestly, most reefers today dont have the patience to manage a system that lags most changes you make by 14 to 30 days. Do some more homework, dont start adding a bunch of $tuff$ to your tank. There is no magic bullet to make corals get color. Decide on how you wish to establish your nitrogen cycle and formulate a strategy to make it happen.

[smokey30]

I was having the same issue with my corals forever, I was trying all these different ways of ULNS thinking that would help my coral issues. Then I was thinking it was my lighting, too much? not enough? raising the light up and down moving corals around etc etc. Not the case I was running carbon through a reactor with a mj1200 and it was stripping too much to fast out of my tank causing slow growth and faded colors. I was told from a local reefer that the best way to use carbon is in a bag and not a reactor. So I recently changed to this method after not running carbon at all for a couple days to try and dirty up the tank a bit. Not sure this is your issues but may be worth a shot.

[lukinrats]

Just curious, but have you added any kind of bacteria to that tank. Biodigest, or any other kind of 24 hr cycling additive?

other than that, I would say an alk swing

[JG1]

Some of the nicest tanks I've ever seen were lit by T5's.

[lukinrats]

Some of the nicest tanks I've ever seen were lit by T5's.

My tank is lit with T5, though I am sure it is not in your category of the nicest. Serve me well though

[Jfannin]

Unless I over looked somthing. All I saw for flow was a MP10. If hat is the case, I would up the flow. I have a mp10 and mp40 in a full SPS 40g breeder lit with 4 t5's. 4 t5's have been fine but wish I had 6 sometimes and sometimes glad I have 4. But water flow is so often over looked. I would simple heck that first being that it wouldn't cost you a thing to check. But 1 mp10 isn't enough for a 60g SPS tank.

[allsps40]

Your lighting was fine. If your corals are growing well but lack luster and color here are some things to look for. Nutrients or lack of, corals do need some food source. I find that a little no3 is the key. Water chemistry what is you alk, ph, ca, no3 and po4 at. Your fresh water source, are you using only RODI water? Stability in everything chemistry, temp, SG, light schedule ect. Flow is important also. Yes to much carbon can be bad, can make the water to clean if you run to much. You need to narrow down what is going on and make small changes, one at a time and give it some time looking for changes in your corals.

[rireuter]

curious as to what test kits you are using. you stated your phosphates were undetectable but you have an algae issue. if you had no phosphates you would not have an algae issue, for the most part. my personal experience with sps has led me to try and maintain about .5 ppm of nitrate. below that and i lose color. i have an 8 bulb ati sunpower 6" off the water on a 48"x24"x16" tall tank and i haven't had any problems with bleaching my corals. getting a second opinion on your test results sounds like a good idea to me. i use salifert kits because i like the low range capabilities of their kits. Also i feed my fish a cube and a half of brine everyday and i only have 6 fish, so upping your feeding will most likely help as well, and SPS don't change overnight, so whatever you decide to do, give it some time.

[Bruce Wayne]

I would love to add more flow but this is the most flow I can have without blowing sand everywhere, I haven't tried an mp40 but I have a koralia 4 and 2 koralia 1400s that are sitting in my garage because I could never get them to work without blowing sand...I don't understand too much carbon making my water too clean or too little nutrients...I have algae on the sand and all over the rocks...
I've decided to take my water to a LFS to see if my tests are wrong (doubt it) I'm also going to stop the carbon and gfo reactors all together (for a while) and I am going to go back to my overdriven T5s (yes, I will acclimate...I was thinking start w 2 bulbs then add 1 per week?), feeding a little more, maybe 1/3 of a mysis cube per day, and adding chaetomorpha algae again...what do you guys think?

[allsps40]

I would add a K2 and point it up so it does not blow the sand around. I have a K2 and an Evo 1050 in my 40B and they are great. I did have more flow 2 K2's and a modded MJ600 but I saw no difference with my current setup. I like the new Evos. I do have a large crushed coral sand bed though and it is hard to blow it around, but it does get moved a bit. I to have some algae mostly bubble and some cotton candy algae and I ran GFO and carbon. I also ran a fuge forever then took it down and saw no change. I am not running GFO or carbon now and I see no change in NO3 or PO4 but my sps have colored up a little more since removing all chemical filtration media. I just put my fuge back on line and will be keeping NO3 and PO4 in check with my fuge. I was running them all at once and carbon dose. I think my tank was way to clean and I could not feed it enough to keep up with nutrient needs. Simple is always best in the hobby. If you start to see PO4 then GFO needs to be used or if you know your tank always has some PO4 maybe because of a heavy fish load then running GFO all the time is good. I only like to use a little at a time now as larger amounts suck up the PO4 too fast and the corals cant use any. I would be feeding your size tank 1 cube a day you have enough fish to need more feeding. A weekly or bi weekly coral food feeding is good as well. Do you have a skimmer?

[Bruce Wayne]

yes, I have a SWC 160 (it's exactly like the octopus extreme 160) It hasn't been pulling much out lately though...it's foaming...I don't get it...also, you're saying you're tank was too clean AND you had algae? just wondering if that is possible, if it is, then that is my tank's issue for sure...

[allsps40]

Yes it is possible. I confirmed 0 no3 and po4 many times. I still have bubble algae and some CCA. Sound like you need to add nutrients to the tank. feed a bit more and keep carbon and gfo reactor off. You have a very good skimmer, over rated for your tank and can handle a heavy bio load. If it is not skimming but foaming well them there is not much to skim out. Water is clean. Feed your fish more and get a coral food. I like Reef Roids and Oyster Feast. See if this helps and remember it will take some time to see any improvements. I run a discontinued SWC NW110 copy of a Tunze and it rocks on my system.
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/corals084.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/corals086.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/corals085.jpg
I feed every day a home blended mixed food of several frozen and dry fish foods mixed together with some garlic, AAs and zooplankton. I also feed nori to my tangs 2 times a week and feed my corals 2 times a week. My sps are maing a come back from high tds RO water but here are some pics.
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-9-11007-1.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-9-11004-1.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-9-11002-1.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-10-11002.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-9-11005.jpghttp://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-10-11008.jpg
http://i473.photobucket.com/albums/rr93/intenseneal/5-10-11004.jpg

[Bruce Wayne]

I see you went with crushed coral, what was your thinking there? Everyone I know that has a reef (I admit are not that many people) go with live sand...what are the benefits of crushed coral?

[allsps40]

I have lots of water flow in my tank if I went with a finer sand then it would bed a sand storm all the time. Even this CC gets moved around a bit. I ahve had a few different substrates in this tank. I was using Caribbean Sea Fiji Live at first then I went BB. After getting sick of vaccing up detritus 3-4 times a week I added in the CC.

[Bruce Wayne]

I would love to have more flow in my tank but if I put any more in or even adjust what I have it will blow sand everywhere...also I don't like the look of bare bottom tanks but I have algae and dead spots, can you have a lot more flow than fine sand? any particular kind of CC you like?

[allsps40]

Try pointing a power head up to the surface.