Bad day, lost a few...

[ezlight]

Lost 3 fish today, all I have left is my trigger. There's gotta be something in the tank that is causing this. My parameters are off, and we need to do another WC, but they're not THAT far off. (nitrite, ammonia, & Phosphate is higher than normal) Here are 3 pictures of the trigger, and a video (All are thumbnails, & the last one is the video, it's 80MB's, just warning the ones on slower connections). We noticed he has white spots all over. I think It's ich, but afraid it may be something more serious. Bad thing is, I have no QT tank. Once my other tank is up, this one will become the QT.

Lost the yellow tail damsel at some point during the night. Woke up to the trigger eating it. Also lost my domino damsel this morning, and tonight I come home to my yellow tang being gone. Now I just have the trigger, 2 snails, some hermits, an emerald crab, and I might have a mower in there if he is still alive. He hides allot.

Advice, suggestions, help??? This is a 55g tank. Tonight's testing was;
Nitrite 1
Nitrate 20
Ammonia .5
HiPH 8.2
KH 358
Copper 0
Calcium 600
Salinity 1.027
Phosphate 2
Temp 76

My baseline for fresh mixed saltwater (After 24 hrs & NOT RO yet)is:
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 10
Ammonia .25
HiPH 8.2
KH 358
Copper 0
Calcium 600
Salinity 1.027
Phosphate 0


http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/th_trigger009.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/?action=view&current=trigger009.jpg)
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/th_trigger002.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/?action=view&current=trigger002.jpg)
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/th_trigger001.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/?action=view&current=trigger001.jpg)
http://i267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/th_trigger024.jpg (http://s267.photobucket.com/albums/ii320/e-zlight/?action=view&current=trigger024.mp4)

[Josh_Canada]

maybe the trigger killed them? any ammonia is bad, your either not done cycling, or the bioload(fish) was added to quick.

[ColaAddict]

sounds like ich with the white spots, but damsels usually are resistant to it. toxic water could have caused ich also. Also could have been that the trigger killed them. Toxic water/ich/aggressive fish, could have been any of those. How old is your tank?

[LukFox]

That fish has a SERIOUS parasite load. Since the fish are dying so quickly and the coating looks very fine in the photos I would think velvet, but ich or velvet treat that fish with copper asap. There's nothing mysterious about these deaths... Your params are probably out of whack because of all the fish that had some time to rot.

[ColaAddict]

Whoa! Alexa what kind of eel is in your avatar pic. Looks awesome! Anyways, yeah, velvet or ich, same treatment, copper, hyposalinity. Your trigger is probably next to die if you don't treat. If you choose to wait and see, make sure you atleast throw in a pinch of minced garlic everyday in your tank. That might help some. If you go the copper route, make sure you get a copper test kit, as it's so easy to overdose with copper and kill the fish anyway.

[LukFox]

She is a fimbriated eel, thanks. :)

Hypo doesn't do anything for velvet though, so in this case the only option is copper, and I would recommend Cupramine if you can find it. When dealing with velvet though you need to act fast, so use whatever copper your LFS has... The trigger should be tough enough hopefully. I'm very sorry to hear of your losses and I really hope the trigger makes it!

[ezlight]

The trigger always left my yellow tang, and domino damsel alone. Those two messed with each other all the time.

I think this all boils down to a bad initial setup. I bought the tank as a whole running and transported it home. It had a few hermits, a snail, 2 emeralds, and a sailfin. Then I got a bunch of rock, and the trigger, yellow tail damsel, and a different domino. Lost the sailfin & domino in a novice mistake, and recently added a mower, 2 snails, and the domino that just died.

I got the domino & yellow tang out before they stopped breathing, but they were inches from death. Both were on their sides, and barely able to swim if provoked. The one I didn't catch was the yellow tail, he died in the night. I'm now actually thinking that the mower may be dead someplace, and is the root of this problem. I'll go looking for him now.

I can't treat with copper at the moment, I have inverts in there. I have my RO/DI setup, and processing water for me as I type. I'll have that mixed this afternoon with salt, and setup my other 55. I'll then take the trigger out tomorrow, and isolate him, and begin the copper treatment. Hopefully I will have enough time to treat this big guy.

What brand copper treatment should I get? I don't want to cheap out, I want something that will work.

[ezlight]

sounds like ich with the white spots, but damsels usually are resistant to it. toxic water could have caused ich also. Also could have been that the trigger killed them. Toxic water/ich/aggressive fish, could have been any of those. How old is your tank?

Bought the tank as a running setup 2 months ago. (maybe 3 months now?) The water parameters weren't right when I got it, and have been fighting it ever since. I added fish too quickly, and found out after the error I had made, but have been doing constant WC's since, trying to nip it in the butt. Someone told me to leave the tank alone, and let it cycle, but that didn't work either, so I started with the WC's again.

That fish has a SERIOUS parasite load. Since the fish are dying so quickly and the coating looks very fine in the photos I would think velvet, but ich or velvet treat that fish with copper asap. There's nothing mysterious about these deaths... Your params are probably out of whack because of all the fish that had some time to rot.

See my response without quotes.

She is a fimbriated eel, thanks. :)

Hypo doesn't do anything for velvet though, so in this case the only option is copper, and I would recommend Cupramine if you can find it. When dealing with velvet though you need to act fast, so use whatever copper your LFS has... The trigger should be tough enough hopefully. I'm very sorry to hear of your losses and I really hope the trigger makes it!

Thanks, I hope I have time to save him. Besides the sailfin, he's one of my favorites.

[ezlight]

I'm now actually thinking that the mower may be dead someplace, and is the root of this problem. I'll go looking for him now.


BINGO, the mower was dead under one of my rocks. Thats probably what caused the rest of the fish to go. Dang it!

1 $10 fish caused me to lose the rest. How friggin stupid. I hadn't seen the mower for a few days. Normally he's out and about periodically through the day. I thought he was a cool lil fish, not anymore. :headwally:

Now, I still have to help the trigger along.

[MrTuskfish]

She is a fimbriated eel, thanks. :)

Hypo doesn't do anything for velvet though, so in this case the only option is copper, and I would recommend Cupramine if you can find it. When dealing with velvet though you need to act fast, so use whatever copper your LFS has... The trigger should be tough enough hopefully. I'm very sorry to hear of your losses and I really hope the trigger makes it!
I agree. If this is velvet, you cannot wait. Google "oodium", you should be able to tell. You had WAY too many big fish in a small tank. A 55 isn't big enough for the trigger or any tangs. If I'm reading correctly, you had the trigger, a yellow tang, a sailfin tang, and other fish in a 55? This is a disaster waiting to happen. After this disaster is under control, do some serious research before proceeding. You'll then be involved in a wonderful hobby.

[ezlight]

I agree. If this is velvet, you cannot wait. Google "oodium", you should be able to tell. You had WAY too many big fish in a small tank. A 55 isn't big enough for the trigger or any tangs. If I'm reading correctly, you had the trigger, a yellow tang, a sailfin tang, and other fish in a 55? This is a disaster waiting to happen. After this disaster is under control, do some serious research before proceeding. You'll then be involved in a wonderful hobby.

I agree, I've been ordering, and getting things together to get my 180 up and going. I've been planning on making a sump out of my other 55, but that now needs to be setup into a bare bottom QT. I've been trying to hold over this 55 long enough to get the 180 on-line and cycled properly. Now I have to locate another tank suitable for a sump. Off to CL I go...


Like I said, I jumped in before doing all the research. Highly unlike me, but you live and learn. Bad part is, a few fish died in the process. :headwally:

[ezlight]

Well, Lost the good fight today. Woke up this morning and my trigger had enough. :angryfire:

I know for ich, you leave the tank fish-less for 8 weeks, and it's gone. If this was velvet, or the other one someone mentioned, can I do the same?

Or should I break it down, clean everything, and start over?

I have 1 emerald, a bunch of red & blue hermits, & 2 snails in there.

I guess we can look on the bright side now, I have a QT setup now.

[MrTuskfish]

Well, Lost the good fight today. Woke up this morning and my trigger had enough. :angryfire:

I know for ich, you leave the tank fish-less for 8 weeks, and it's gone. If this was velvet, or the other one someone mentioned, can I do the same?
.
Yes.

[ezlight]

Thank you sir.

Already marked on the calendar when I can introduce fish to the tank again. This gives me a few weeks to concentrate, and do my 180 right, and get that cycled. Find a perm home for my 30g QT, and my daughter can still enjoy her 10g fresh while we wait for new fish to join the family.

Now, off to do more homework on sump design, refuge, and lighting for the 180.

[ColaAddict]

Hey, while waiting for your tank to clear up, you can start quarantining a few fish atleast.

[Orcrone]

Hey, while waiting for your tank to clear up, you can start quarantining a few fish atleast.

I probably wouldn't do that. One of the worst things to do in this hobby is rush. The DT was not fully cycled. I don't know if the QT is cycled. I'd make sure your ammonia and nitrites are 0.0 in both tanks before getting anything. Also, 8 weeks is a bare minimum for letting your DT sit fallow. Nothing wrong with lettnig it sit that way a little longer. And my advice is to start off slowly. After what you went through I'd start with one hardy fish, QT it for 6 weeks and then place in the DT. Make sure all is good before continuing.

Best of luck to you!!!!

[ezlight]

Man, i tell ya. My crabs are all way more active today than they have ever been. I have some ground up seafood that I fed my other guys, I put a small amount in, and they all scattered and really liked it. How often should I feed those guys? I used to feed the tank twice a day, but had fish that primarily ate it. So I'm thinking every other day would be sufficient. I have 10 red leg hermits, 10 blue legged, 1 emerald crab, and 2 large snails.

Also, Man. I see these lil white things floating all around my tank, and sticking on the glass. Quick lil effers too. Is that the ich not attached to the fish? If so, man my poor trigger.

Situation has changed. I'm holding off on my 180 setup. May have a move in my near future. Until the decision is made, I'm going to keep my 55 fallow, and let the bad guys die off. Until I decide if she has to come down or not.

[MrTuskfish]

The little critters are probably pods, good things. You can't see ich. Is the trigger in the same tank that held fish that were killed by a parasite? If so, he needs to be in a QT and treated.

[ezlight]

The little critters are probably pods, good things. You can't see ich. Is the trigger in the same tank that held fish that were killed by a parasite? If so, he needs to be in a QT and treated.

No, unfortunately, the trigger gave up the fight. Woke up one morning, and he was gone. :thumbdown

Sucks too, him & my sailfin were my favorites.

Right now that tank is empty accept for the crabs I mentioned above.

[hollister]

I see a bubbler and not sure why.

Whats used for water flow?

[ezlight]

I see a bubbler and not sure why.

Whats used for water flow?

Honestly, it's setup the way I bought it, and I've questioned the bubbler myself.

I have a wet/dry filter setup with a 550 GPH pump. and I have two powerheads in there for additional water flow. One comes on during the day, and the other is always on. Don't know the power rating on those

I was thinking about taking it all down tomorrow, & throw the crabs in a bucket. Clean everything real good, go through the sand and rinse it. Clean up the sump. Take the bio balls out, and cut an opening for a sock filter. Put egg crate in the bottom, use different rocks, and re-setup the tank. Get a pump for the HOB skimmer I have, and give it another go.

Or is that going overboard? LOL

Although, the crab & snail activity is cool, and my daughter really enjoys it.

[hollister]

The power rating is important. Salt water get oxygen from a gas exchange at the surface created from good steady water flow....

[ezlight]

Figured I'd update all. I am still fishless. I can't add any fish to the tank until the end of July. (10 weeks fallow)

BUT, I restarted the tank, and corrected a few things. The back of the tank is now painted black, I added egg crate to the bottom, added 40lbs of sand, took the air bubbler out of the tank, got rid of the bio balls in the wet/dry and am now using berlin socks, moved the heater to the sump, Cleaned everything really well, and found out I have bristle worms. Got an arrow crab to take care of those. My tank is now ready for fish minus a couple things, I still need a pump for my HOB skimmer, and I need a wave maker for my two pumps.

Losing all the fish put my 180 build on hold. No need for it right now. I have a 30 gal I'm going to setup as a QT tank. I'm now going to do this right.

My 55 gal is now stocked with 10 nassarius snails, 4 bigger snails that are for cleaning the glass, last count was 19 hermits, but I think I'm down to about 15 now, an arrow crab, and my original survivor an emerald crab.

One very interesting thing I found the day after restarting the tank, is on my back wall I saw what appeared to be a baby sand sifting starfish. It had two tiny arms, and 3 nubs. I also see what appears to be baby shrimp. BUT, I've seen 2 in the claws of the arrow crab, so I don't think I'll end up with any of those surviving.

edit:As I got up after finishing this post, I went and looked at my tank (Lights don't come on till 10am) and the starfish is on the front glass. He now has 3 nubs, and is definitely a baby sand sifter. :dance::rollface::dance: