Xraying my fish tank... :-/

[jaws021]

So verizon wants to Xray my condo so our building can get fios. They have asked me to remove my fish, coral, and invertebrates.
All living creatures within 30 feet of the machine must be removed.

So my concern,.. Should I also remove the sand? As much water? Will the Xray ruin what one year of having the tank has done? Will it be like starting over?
Its a 75 gallon.

[unbelievable]

Pardon my ignorance but wth is fios and why would they need to xray your place?!????

[ultimatedc]

Fios is, I believe, there internet service. It's a fiber-optic based connection, supposedly pretty fast.

Dunno why they need to xray your house though. To be on the safe side, I'd try to get a couple buddies over and make a day out of it. Ultimately not worth losing anything, or some-how triggering a huge cycle, at the expense of a cellphone corporation.

[jaws021]

Yes fiber optic. They are trying to figure out where they can drill.

[Netofficer3710]

tell them no...

[gveng]

tell them no...

seriously!!

[xdannyxrocksx]

+1 on NO!

[bdr]

seeing as how its a condo he probably doesnt have a choice... how much could one xray do? and tell them to bring some lead if that harsh of an xray they should have equipment to shield sensitive equipment that isnt normally movable.

[T Diddy]

x-ray sounds extreme...I doubt your fish/corals would actually be harmed though. You could always stack cinder blocks around the tank lol :hmm5:

[Fishfish0001]

I mean they can xray fish that are alive. I can't imagine the macine is some death-to-all machine that will kill everything.

That or you will have sterilized (sexually) fish :P

[peppie]

+1 on the lead covers. They must carry them to do that type of work. If not send them a bill for your work.

[cody6766]

the power needed to x-ray a wall is way higher than the power needed to x-ray a living critter. Because they're cranking out a lot more energy they need to be more cautious.

I would also call them and tell them to bring lead blankets. There's no way they don't have them.

[MattAndKim]

The lead loading necessary to provide one or two tenth-thicknesses for a fish tank would exceed the floor's loading capacity. It would not be possible to shield the fishtank significantly. You need two linear inches of lead to attenuate the flux by ~10%. There is no way they could attach lead blankets anyways, you would have to build tube-and-coupler scaffolding around the tank. I think that you have never handled lead shielding, it is amazingly heavy! The amount of lead necessary to shield your tank would have to be craned in or carried up by a team of workmen. If you are required by contract to move the animals, verizon is not going to provide shielding because the radiographers are going to charge them a huge amount to shield the tank.
(I managed radiological maintenance for many years and have been involved in industrial radiography, but only using gamma sources)

If the tank faces the x-ray source, you will gain significant shielding from the water between the source and the animals.

Good luck!

[MattAndKim]

Cinder blocks will provide almost no shielding, as the coring factor is significant, they are mainly air, and the average atomic weight is very low.

[jaws021]

Do you guys think they will be ok? The process takes about 15 minutes. Trying to catch the fish, coral, and cleaning crew.... Few hours.

I wouldint mind mutated corals,.. Lol.
But I am worried about the fish...

[MattAndKim]

If they aren't establishing an exclusion area out to the other side of the street or in adjacent buildings, with 15min of exposure I think there will be absolutely no effect.

[benzreef]

I always plan for the worst possible situation, as that is what usually occurs for me. I would just nip it in the butt and remove anything of concern. Think of it as a large water change and re-aquascaping project. As for the lead shielding, think about something as ubiquitous as a lead-acid car battery and how much that weighs (relative to the amount of Pb it contains) and how much effort would be required, as MattAndKim excellently described. The lead shielding most of us are familiar with are the bibs or jackets in dental offices, and those are not capable of shielding us from direct X-rays. They are only for protecting one from any stray and usually insignificant radiation. Mostly for reassurance (my old man has been a dentist for 20+ years). Better to be safe than sorry!

[MattAndKim]

Do you have any more information as to the procedure and equipment they are using, specifically predicted exposure rates and emitted energy? Are they scanning the walls with hand-held backscatter equipment? Google just turns up this thread.

[dogstar74]

Wouldn't the x ray device be columnated so tight that the only x rays they get would be back scatter?

It's just easier for them legally to say, "move your fish" than for them to fight a wrongful death suit. Truth is, you'll probably do more harm to the fish by moving and stressing them out than by just leaving them be.

Put a couple of wraps of aluminum foil around the tank when their there. I know it's not lead, but what the heck. Can't hurt. Just don't wrap your sandwich in the the foil after wards. It might keep it warm.

[MattAndKim]

Collimation tightens the beam but if the target is co-linear with the coral, then they will be exposed to the source at near full intensity, if not energy.

[MattAndKim]

Do not wrap your tank with aluminum foil unless you just want to get a laugh out of the techs. You would get similar shielding by wrapping your tank with said cheese sandwiches.

[Netofficer3710]

don't let them in...

[billdogg]

I've been an Radiologic Technologist for 25 years. Unless they are putting the xray tube up against your tank and shooting through it to get a picture of your wall, I would not even think twice about leaving everything where it is.

[Whisperer]

Be prepared to see flies with legs in their head.

[cody6766]

^^^I've seen this happen. It was through intentional genetic modification though, not accidental ninja turtle mutations.

Hey! That's an idea...what if your fish developed an affinity for pizza and began fighting crime?

[Create]

I don't get why they need to xray a building? If this is for running the fiber, wouldn't blueprints be good enough? What are they looking for?

A route to install the fios?

[sjwitt]

I'm also surprised by this... if they are asking you to remove your fish/coral are they insisting ALL lifeforms are out of the building? ... Like other pets and, um, humans!? Seems very weird to me. They should have to have some type of environmental permit to do this, wouldn't you think?

[Create]

If you own this condo, you should own all of everything inside your 4 walls including what happens in them. I wouldn't think just because it is a condo, you "have" to do anything.

Now if this was a roof structure I could see where you would have to grant access to get it fixed as it is part of the building, but this is running lines for a new service. I wouldn't think they would have to xray the building. Perhaps that is the cheapest way of figuring out where to run the fiber, but most likely not the only way.

[collie man]

can you ask for a copy of the xray? that would make a cool picture. imagine seeing and apartment with a fish tank and all the fish are skeletons!

[unbelievable]

I'm a union electrician and I've never heard of a building being xrayed to figure out where to drill. This is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of....... unless we are all missing something fiber is extremely small in diameter so what exactly are they planning on running?

[jaws021]

Our condos are 4 stories tall. I believe they were built in 1991. Why they need to Xray instead of using blue prints,.. I don't know.
I did speak to our home owners association and asked them to speak to the techs. Catching 5 fish in a reef tank will not be easy,..

I googled and search this topic with no results.
For the one that asked earlier,.. Yes it's for fios. Everyone on our building is excited about it.

I should be speaking to the techs sometime today. At this point I think I'll be removing zoas and Sps corals that are fragged. I'll try and catch what ever fish I can. I'll do all of this during the tank "night" cycle. My tank doesn't turn on until 4pm. The xray process takes 15 minutes.

Sjwitt.. Yes they are requiring all life forms be removed. Anything within 30 feet of the machine.

[jaws021]

can you ask for a copy of the xray? that would make a cool picture. imagine seeing and apartment with a fish tank and all the fish are skeletons!

Hahaha would be nice,.. Especially if I end up with xmen type fish that watch TV and eat dinner with me after. Lol

I've been an Radiologic Technologist for 25 years. Unless they are putting the xray tube up against your tank and shooting through it to get a picture of your wall, I would not even think twice about leaving everything where it is.

I'll ask and see what where amd how they are planning on Xraying

[spieszak]

They are going to x-ray to see where they can drill? Seriously, this is more cost effective than requesting the blue prints? Companies have been running cable for as long as I can remember, and they either used their knuckles or a "fancy" stud finder. Seems like a LOT of overkill here to run some cable... I can't imagine signing off on this even if I didn't have a fish tank, or even a plant in the condo... Maybe it's just me, but it sure looks like a situation here where they have found the least cost effective, most dangerous solution to ensure they can be totally lazy.
Sign me up for one of those coral morphs tho.

[risika67]

I'm a union electrician and I've never heard of a building being xrayed to figure out where to drill. This is probably one of the stupidest things I've ever heard of....... unless we are all missing something fiber is extremely small in diameter so what exactly are they planning on running?

My husband is also an union electrician. His last job in a hospital that he worked at xrayed the floor so they would make sure there were no pipes cut. It is done. That being said, he said they were all standing right next to it while it was happening. This was more than a year ago and he is still around.

[Bluecheese]

I doubt the amount of energy they'll use will be enough to harm anything in your tank. If it was really that high they would have to take drastic measure outside as well as the energy particles would bounce and beam around all over the place.
Weird procedure though!!
this is probably a legal issue , that they have to warn you so that if anything would happen you would not go after them.
If you are really concerned, I would just remove the fish...and take them to the park for the day!

[unbelievable]

My husband is also an union electrician. His last job in a hospital that he worked at xrayed the floor so they would make sure there were no pipes cut. It is done. That being said, he said they were all standing right next to it while it was happening. This was more than a year ago and he is still around.

I guess I should have been more specific. That happens all the time so when u core through the concrete you don't hit any pipes in the deck but like you said you can stand right over the unit as its going on. I've never seen anything else other than that type of xray for coring purposes.

[bdr]

Union electricians seem to be coming out of the woodwork here as i too am one. We xray walls and floors all the time when we are working in hospitals and plants where if you hit a pipe, a life line or process could crash and cause a huge amount of chaos. We dont xray so we miss the rebar in the concrete we xray so we use a core drill (a drill that drill a hole from 2- 24") we miss pipes im assuming they want to run a pipe for their fiber and would rather not drill through the feeders to your apt or your neighbors. As for the lead 2 years ago i installed a whole new diagnostic imaging department (x-rays) in a hospital. cinders blocks wont do a thing and as for lead being to heavy not at all. the walls around the suite were lined in 1/8" lead. now a whole roll that would go around your tank 10 times took two people to lift. If they think its that much of an issue they can bring in a shield and block it from the side they are shooting the picture from.

[ezerasurfr]

Maybe there is a rat infestation the condo association doesnt want the owners to know about and they told Verizon they didn't have the plans. This way, they would have to xray and deplete the rats too...

When fios was installed in my old apartment (build circa 1860), nothing was xray'd. They just core-drilled down all 3 stories in one of the closets. This seems ridiculous with new condos - it's no wonder TV and Internet cost so much.

[karm40]

x-ray + rats = BIG MUTANT RATS!

[frankpayne32]

This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen on here...lol.

[cody6766]

master splinter!

[Enjoy]

http://media.tumblr.com/tumblr_ljm1yhduMz1qaj502.jpg

[mwilliams62]

This is one of the most interesting threads I've seen on here...lol.

I agree please let us know how this turns out.... I have lived in Apartments for well over 30+ years and they have never had to xray the buildings to install cable lines.
Sounds kind of "fishy" to me.

[MattAndKim]

Any update?

[BigRick]

interesting thread