biopellets suggestions for my tank.

[Anthony.Luciano]

ok so i dont really know what information to give about my system so anything you need please ask. basically i want to use biopellets for my tank but ive heard reviews saying there amazing and other reviews saying they make the water so clean it kills everything. if i do go this way i like the bulk reef supply bio pellets and reactor so please give me any suggestions if i should do it or not.

PLEASE DO NOT START A WAR ABOUT BIOPELLETS!!!!!

[helpinsmepls]

I personally use them but you need to have a reason why you need them. If it's not broke don't fix it.

What's your nitrate phosphate lvls?

Overgrown with nuance algae?

You will need a hunk of a skimmer also if you don't already have one.

[Anthony.Luciano]

my nitrates are not a problem its just my phosphates. i use ro di water crazy amounts of gfo and phosphate remover i dont know why also. my water is always cloudy. i can go a week without touching the tank and doing a 50 gallon water change before the week starts and its coudy. i dont know why it just is. so mainly im going to be using it to get rid of phosphates. and i have a reef octopus sro 2000 rated for 180 gallons.
I personally use them but you need to have a reason why you need them. If it's not broke don't fix it.

What's your nitrate phosphate lvls?

Overgrown with nuance algae?

You will need a hunk of a skimmer also if you don't already have one.

[helpinsmepls]

How is your rockwork, can water move freely throughout it? Sometimes just having spaces in between your rockwork and enough flow can help this.

Also depends on your bioload from fish and feedings. There is no reason for you not to use biopellets and because you are using gfo and you are still showing phosphates I would defiantly give the pellets a try.

[Anthony.Luciano]

i barley have any rock is my tank. its 200 pounds but its like the base of the reef so its real heavy and its only about a 2ft length of rock work and yea the water gets around it because i see my fish going back and forth at night from the vortech short pulse mode when they sleep behind the rocks. i have 8 or 9 fish i think and feed mysis rinsed in ro water every other day to try to reduce the phosphates and still i get algae on the glass daily. but no hair algae. so yea i really want to try the pellets. but will it kill anything during the seeding process? and can i use a fluval 405 as a reactor of should i just buy the 50 dollar reactor. it makes no difference it would just be cool if i can save 50 bucks.
How is your rockwork, can water move freely throughout it? Sometimes just having spaces in between your rockwork and enough flow can help this.

Also depends on your bioload from fish and feedings. There is no reason for you not to use biopellets and because you are using gfo and you are still showing phosphates I would defiantly give the pellets a try.

[helpinsmepls]

I would just get the brs reactor, you need the tumbling action of it to get the pellets to work correctly. I have not seen a fluval with this option.

As far as killing everything. Don't change anything else you usally do, some will say don't use gfo and carbon, but just run them imo.

Small amounts of pellets to start. You can't do too few but you can do too much. So start with just a few pellets and add to them every few days until you reach the limit on the instructions or you see the phosphates start to drop.

[Crkbaby]

if you are going to run biopellets make sure you get a reactor that will tumble them well most base reactors wont. Super reef octopus has a sweet one that works awsome. also make sure you start with half recommended dose and tumbling slowly for a solid month. I tried using them but they cloud my water due to a bacterial bloom that doesnt seem to go away. I know the bacteria is good and is due to it out competing bad bacteria for food. I was running them with gfo and the water was cloudy as hell so i know I wont do that again lol. In all honesty right now I run neither due to my constant weekly 20% water changes there really is no need to my phosphates and nitrate never register. I might try them down the road again since I have this sweet reactor and the pellets lol.

[dzhuo]

Hi Anthony,
I have a few suggestions:

1. Find out what's causing your tank to be cloudy. You need to know what you are fighting for before anyone can offer any sensible solution. For example, would it be possible to get a picture of the cloudy tank? Is it caused by bacteria bloom? Algae bloom? Sand storm? Tiny microbubbles? Film algae on glass? It's really not a good idea to throw money into the dark hoping it will work; this hobby doesn't work like that.

2. Bio-pellet is normally not an ideal solution for phosphate. You will be disappointed both on expectation and result. If you are truly having only phosphate issue, the best solution is phosphate binder such as GFO. If GFO doesn't work to reduce phosphate, bio-pellet is probably not going to help either.

3. If your tank is cloudy and you are having high phosphate reading, most likely you are having nitrate issue as well so I would double check that.

4. Is your skimmer performing?

5. Are you running carbon? Would carbon clear up your tank faster?

[Anthony.Luciano]

ok cool thanks the brs reactor is out of stock till like july so im getting this other reactor off ebay. it looks pretty good but it cost more but no big deal. oh and how do you know when to replace the pellets to they like dissolve or something and is the amount of pellets the amount of bacteria that can live in them like lets say i put half the amount recommended does that mean they just get consumed faster of that only half the amount of bacteria can live in them?
I would just get the brs reactor, you need the tumbling action of it to get the pellets to work correctly. I have not seen a fluval with this option.

As far as killing everything. Don't change anything else you usally do, some will say don't use gfo and carbon, but just run them imo.

Small amounts of pellets to start. You can't do too few but you can do too much. So start with just a few pellets and add to them every few days until you reach the limit on the instructions or you see the phosphates start to drop.

[helpinsmepls]

Like the other poster said it would be nice to find out what exactly the problem is, but me personally I could not find any issues so I used the pellets and I am happy with them.

That being said, some of the pellets will pretty much denigrate after about 6 months then I just add more. I don't take anything out, just add more. I am using Warner Marine pellets so I do not know about the brs, but they should be pretty much the same.

[Anthony.Luciano]

i can only get the skimmer to work sometimes. other times it either doesnt stay at a constant level and goes to low or goes to high and starts to go over the edges onto the floor. ill go take a picture of the tank now. i do 20 gallon water changes weekly and when the tank is cloudy like this i do 2 times a week. ive tried 2 pounds of gfo and still i have algae growing on the glass idk why its rediculous. my lights are leds so it cant be a bad spectrum. and its not even like its bad like i cant see the algae on the glass unless i look through the side because its to light of a layer. it just ****es me off how the water is always cloudy. in 6 months of having this tank it was never clear. so now im starting to get aggravated.
Hi Anthony,
I have a few suggestions:

1. Find out what's causing your tank to be cloudy. You need to know what you are fighting for before anyone can offer any sensible solution. For example, would it be possible to get a picture of the cloudy tank? Is it caused by bacteria bloom? Algae bloom? Sand storm? Tiny microbubbles? Film algae on glass? It's really not a good idea to throw money into the dark hoping it will work; this hobby doesn't work like that.

2. Bio-pellet is normally not an ideal solution for phosphate. You will be disappointed both on expectation and result. If you are truly having only phosphate issue, the best solution is phosphate binder such as GFO. If GFO doesn't work to reduce phosphate, bio-pellet is probably not going to help either.

3. If your tank is cloudy and you are having high phosphate reading, most likely you are having nitrate issue as well so I would double check that.

4. Is your skimmer performing?

5. Are you running carbon? Would carbon clear up your tank faster?

[Anthony.Luciano]

here are some pics of my system. as you can see it looks clear but through the side view its pretty cloudy.
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010381.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010383.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010384.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010385.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010386.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010387.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010388.jpg
http://i1192.photobucket.com/albums/aa340/electronkid710/P1010389.jpg

[dzhuo]

If I were you, I wouldn't go out and spend money on bio-pellet and another reactor hoping it will work. I don't think this is your problem and you don't seem to understand the benefit and application of bio-pellet like many of the newer reefers. In short: A bio-pellet reactor is used to culture bacteria. It's a carbon source (assuming your tank is carbon limited) to grow bacteria. When bacteria grows, it consumes nitrate and phosphate. However, the ratio of nitrate and phosphate consumption is not linear. In other word, very little phosphate is removed from the water compare to nitrate. Eventually, the bacteria will need to be removed from the water and most people use a good skimmer for that. So there are 2 problems:

1. Bio-pellets aren't known to be a good phosphate reduction media.
2. If your skimmer isn't working right, it won't be able to remove the bacteria.

Please get a picture and let's figure out where the cloudiness is coming from. Or you might consider running a little carbon which is known to polish water much better than bio-pellets.

[Anthony.Luciano]

i put up pics and yea i guess i wont waste my money then. thanks for convincing me and saving me 200 bucks :) should i get more rocks and make like 2 islands in the tank to get more flow? and what do you think about the fuge should i take out the sandbed and put high flow for the cheato? and for the skimmer i think im going to lower it a little more into the water because when its high like that its to hard to maintain and i cant see where the foam is.
If I were you, I wouldn't go out and spend money on bio-pellet and another reactor hoping it will work. I don't think this is your problem and you don't seem to understand the benefit and application of bio-pellet like many of the newer reefers. In short: A bio-pellet reactor is used to culture bacteria. It's a carbon source (assuming your tank is carbon limited) to grow bacteria. When bacteria grows, it consumes nitrate and phosphate. However, the ratio of nitrate and phosphate consumption is not linear. In other word, very little phosphate is removed from the water compare to nitrate. Eventually, the bacteria will need to be removed from the water and most people use a good skimmer for that. So there are 2 problems:

1. Bio-pellets aren't known to be a good phosphate reduction media.
2. If your skimmer isn't working right, it won't be able to remove the bacteria.

Please get a picture and let's figure out where the cloudiness is coming from. Or you might consider running a little carbon which is known to polish water much better than bio-pellets.

[Crkbaby]

how old is that tank it looks like a diatom bloom almost. And alot more live rock wouldnt hurt I am sure.

[dzhuo]

Sorry. Your post came before mine so I didn't see your pictures. Looking at the photos, the cloudy seems to be just debris. Here is what I would suggest:

1. Figure out why your skimmer isn't working. You still have the Reef Octopus? I assume it's internal? It's a good quality skimmer so there is no reason for it not working especially with the tank you have. When is the last time you check the skimmer pump? Air line? Is it sitting in a constant water level? How depth is it sitting in? If possible, talk to the vendor who sold you the skimmer and make sure it works 100% of the time. This should be your #1 goal.

2. Are you running any filter socks? If not, I would consider running it to catch larger debris. Many people run it as long as you clean it every 3 days. This should help clear up your tank significantly.

3. Consider running carbon. I would suggest ROX .8 from BRS. This would significantly improve water clarify.

4. I would continue to siphon left over debris from your sump for each water change. Many people have sand in their sump so I don't think this is your problem. I personally don't use any sand in my sump or fuge because it makes it difficult to take out crap / debris. This is your decision to make.

5. I would up the flow. I don't think you have enough. Flow is really part of filtration: You want dirty water to get to your skimmer as fast as possible. When you don't have enough flow, debris settle on the sand bed (look at the right side of your tank) and continue to decay and mess up your water.

6. I would definitely try to grow chaeto in your sump. I think it will help and it's cheap.

[Anthony.Luciano]

like 4 months
how old is that tank it looks like a diatom bloom almost

[Crkbaby]

Its probably a diatom bloom that occurs near the end of its cycle I would maybe add some more rock. get a filter sock suck up as much as you can like doing a water change reuse the water with most of the algae taken out. use a filter sock on your sump down pipe as well so your skimmer can work more efficiently do this for like a week and I think you will be ok. By the way biopellets are usually added to more established tanks at least get some live stock to get a good biological filter going in your rock before even thinking about them.

[Anthony.Luciano]

ok thanks. would dual mp40's be enough flow? because right now i have an mp40 and a koralia and the skimmer is about 5 inches submerged under water. and yes i have cheato it just doesnt grow fast because if i put any powerhead in the sump it kicks up all of the sand
Sorry. Your post came before mine so I didn't see your pictures. Looking at the photos, the cloudy seems to be just debris. Here is what I would suggest:

1. Figure out why your skimmer isn't working. You still have the Reef Octopus? I assume it's internal? It's a good quality skimmer so there is no reason for it not working especially with the tank you have. When is the last time you check the skimmer pump? Air line? Is it sitting in a constant water level? How depth is it sitting in? If possible, talk to the vendor who sold you the skimmer and make sure it works 100% of the time. This should be your #1 goal.

2. Are you running any filter socks? If not, I would consider running it to catch larger debris. Many people run it as long as you clean it every 3 days. This should help clear up your tank significantly.

3. Consider running carbon. I would suggest ROX .8 from BRS. This would significantly improve water clarify.

4. I would continue to siphon left over debris from your sump for each water change. Many people have sand in their sump so I don't think this is your problem. I personally don't use any sand in my sump or fuge because it makes it difficult to take out crap / debris. This is your decision to make.

5. I would up the flow. I don't think you have enough. Flow is really part of filtration: You want dirty water to get to your skimmer as fast as possible. When you don't have enough flow, debris settle on the sand bed (look at the right side of your tank) and continue to decay and mess up your water.

6. I would definitely try to grow chaeto in your sump. I think it will help and it's cheap.

[Anthony.Luciano]

ok so i think im going to go in this order...
1. buy 100 pounds of dry rock and make 2 islands to increase flow around the rocks.
2. lower the skimmer to a more efficient height
3. add filter socks
4. add carbon
5. take the sand out of the sump and increase flow to maximize chaeto growth.
6. add carbon.
7. keep up with regular 20 gallon weekly water changes.

[Crkbaby]

just so you know if you add that much rock at once there is a chance that later on this might happen again due to another cycle ending, filter socks if not clean regularly will become nitrate/phosphate factories I have 14 of them I swap one daily that way you can just wash them all at once. adding alot of rock at once can spike ammonia also but with nothing in the tank who cares go nuts now its the only time you really can.

[manvsfish]

I agree with DZ somewhat. Right it's not going to remove phosphates like it will with nitrates. But then again removing .25, .50 or even .75 phosphates is a big improvement. I would much rather have a .25 compared to .75 or even a 1. I run the NPX biopallets by two little fishies. I spent $28 on pallets and another $50 on reactor. Not that bad IMO for something that will help remove nitrates and phosphates. And even if I don't like pallets I still can run carbon in reactor as well as a phosphate sponge. I had trouble at first with the bacteria bloom. I also had trouble with the pallets tumbling in reactor after a week or so. They were sticking together like pasta sticks togther when cooking. I just took out reactor and rinsed again then run in 5 gl bucket for a day. Durning that day I just hit the side of reactor and/or shaked to get tumbling going again. I put back into sump and I've noticed a big difference. I'm also going to take out the filter sponge in reactor and replace with knittting backing. I'm getting a lot of bacteria clogging up my sponge. I would do a little more reseach and personnel I do suggested getting them. But again that's IMO... Good luck

[dzhuo]

I think adding another MP40 will definitely help but you might also consider Tunze. Looking at the length of your tank, I don't believe MP40 would have the reach you needed. In a long tank like yours, Tunze might be a better application. I don't think adding more rock will help but I don't think it will hurt either so it's your call. Everything else looks good. I am positive that if you do all these, I will definitely help improve water clarify. I am happy that you decided to take sand out from your sump but I would not necessary add another powerhead. If I were you, I would just let debris settles in this lower flow chamber and siphon them out during water change.


I would do a little more reseach and personnel I do suggested getting them.


Doing more research is always a good idea. It's just a carbon source; nothing magical about it. It does, however, have its advantages over other types of nutrient control which is why it becomes so popular. We have been running tanks successfully without bio-pellets for decades. It's more important to understand what it's and how it works than looking at it as a magical cure for every tank and every problems.

[Anthony.Luciano]

well its dry rock so theres no die off, would that still cause an ammonia spike. and i have 8 fish in there and a few corals. the reason there not in the pics is because my lights were off and i just turned them on to take pics then put them back off.
just so you know if you add that much rock at once there is a chance that later on this might happen again due to another cycle ending, filter socks if not clean regularly will become nitrate/phosphate factories I have 14 of them I swap one daily that way you can just wash them all at once. adding alot of rock at once can spike ammonia also but with nothing in the tank who cares go nuts now its the only time you really can.

[Anthony.Luciano]

well the tank really does look bare thats why i want more rocks. also i want to make the rocks in an island to get more flow around the rocks
I think adding another MP40 will definitely help but you might also consider Tunze. Looking at the length of your tank, I don't believe MP40 would have the reach you needed. In a long tank like yours, Tunze might be a better application. I don't think adding more rock will help but I don't think it will hurt either so it's your call. Everything else looks good. I am positive that if you do all these, I will definitely help improve water clarify. I am happy that you decided to take sand out from your sump but I would not necessary add another powerhead. If I were you, I would just let debris settles in this lower flow chamber and siphon them out during water change.



Doing more research is always a good idea. It's just a carbon source; nothing magical about it. It does, however, have its advantages over other types of nutrient control which is why it becomes so popular. We have been running tanks successfully without bio-pellets for decades. It's more important to understand what it's and how it works than looking at it as a magical cure for every tank and every problems.

[manvsfish]

We have been running tanks successfully without bio-pellets for decades.

That's true but back in the civil war they amputated arms and legs of Soldiers without any anesthetic. Sure it was successfully but damn it had to hurt. Point is this, this is really a new hobby and in the last fews years there as been a vast improvement on equipment and such. Sure there's a lot of gimicks out there that want to take your money that don't really work. Why not use something that will only help and improve this hobby rather than just because it's been done a different way for decades? If we stay with status quo then we'll never progress! IMO....

[dzhuo]

I am not saying bio-pellets don't help. They are popular and there is a reason. DSB used to be very popular as well (and still is to some degree) but as we learn more about it, we are starting to realize they aren't for everyone or every tank. If you are truly un-bias about bio-pellets, you should already know the success and failure of reported tanks. For every person who said it helped, there is another who said it completely crashed his/her tank. Bio-pellet isn't a magic pill and certainly won't help OP's problem so there is no reason to suggest the OP go out and spend another $200 in disappointment. Once OP figure out his skimmer problem and the tank has mature a little more, he can look into bio-pellet to control N & P; that's what bio-pellets are for.

[Anthony.Luciano]

ok well a i chose not to go with the pellet for all the reasons that everyone stated here and thanks for all the help from you guys. but a little status update. today i really worked on the tank a lot. first i moved all the rocks in like an island so the flow is maximized and theres no dead spots behind the rocks since they used to be sitting against the glass. then i said to myself oh the heck with it the waters already non visible because of the sand stir up so i drained the whole sump washed the skimmer and made a new mounting thing for it so it sits lower in the water and after cleaning it its working amazingly so far so i now know i need to clean it more often. then i took out all of the sand and lr out of the fuge and just put a powerhead with cheato. there wasnt that must sand and rock so there was no point in doing it slowly because it would just make more work for me and its not an amount that will hurt anything either. so i cleaned out tat whole thing. changed about 35 gallons of water and i also put a powerhead under the skimmer mount thing because when i pulled it out there was thick horrible smelling smudge all over the bottom of the tank and the old mount so now i hope that powerhead keeps everything suspended. now one question. can i go without filter socks i really never liked them and the fact that i have to change it every 3 days.

[dzhuo]

now one question. can i go without filter socks i really never liked them and the fact that i have to change it every 3 days.

If your goal is to polish the water for clarify, I would suggest you run them. At least use them for a few days to get most of the floating particles out. If you really don't want to use filter socks, having a slow chamber somewhere in your sump will accomplish the same thing: Most of the crap will settle in that area so you will have to siphon them out during water change. The point, though, is to make sure you have adequate flow so these debris end up in your sump rather than your main display.

1. Have you fix your skimmer? Is it working better?
2. Are you planning to run carbon?

[Anthony.Luciano]

yep i fixed my skimmer and its working great, and im going to buy some carbon when i go to my weekly visit to the lfs on saturday.
If your goal is to polish the water for clarify, I would suggest you run them. At least use them for a few days to get most of the floating particles out. If you really don't want to use filter socks, having a slow chamber somewhere in your sump will accomplish the same thing: Most of the crap will settle in that area so you will have to siphon them out during water change. The point, though, is to make sure you have adequate flow so these debris end up in your sump rather than your main display.

1. Have you fix your skimmer? Is it working better?
2. Are you planning to run carbon?

[dzhuo]

yep i fixed my skimmer and its working great, and im going to buy some carbon when i go to my weekly visit to the lfs on saturday.

That's great. Between the skimmer, filter socks, and carbon, I am positive that your water clarify will improve drastically in days. I know online shipping is pretty ridiculously for small items but BRS ROX .8 carbon is considered by many to be the best so you might want to look into that as well.

Good luck!

[Anthony.Luciano]

ok well then ill get that stuff on brs and then ill get all my new test kits so its in the same shipping thing along with the filter socks.
That's great. Between the skimmer, filter socks, and carbon, I am positive that your water clarify will improve drastically in days. I know online shipping is pretty ridiculously for small items but BRS ROX .8 carbon is considered by many to be the best so you might want to look into that as well.

Good luck!

[manvsfish]

DZ I just want to apologies if I came off like a know it all. I'm far from an expert in this and would consider myself a rookie. I see you've been a memeber since 2002. I hope you didn't take offense because a lot of what I've learned is from hobbist like you. I just wanted to encourage new ideas and products. So thanks for sharing your knowledge and hope you understand what I was trying to express.

[dzhuo]

DZ I just want to apologies if I came off like a know it all. I'm far from an expert in this and would consider myself a rookie. I see you've been a memeber since 2002. I hope you didn't take offense because a lot of what I've learned is from hobbist like you.


Definitely no offense taken and no need to apologize either. :) I don't think you have said anything out of line.


I just wanted to encourage new ideas and products.


This is the only way for this hobby to advance. Many advancements and technologies were started with this basic idea. Do not be afraid to speak out because you are new. Constructive discussions are always welcome even if they represent opposing views.