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View Full Version : UPS/Backup: can I do this with Apex?


gig
05/23/2011, 03:30 PM
OK, I think I can, but was hoping the experts can confirm?

I have an Apex with two eb8's and 2 Vortech MP40w ES's

I have each EB8 plugged into a different circuit (on opposite sides of the tank).

I want to plug one of the EB8's into a large APC UPS I have on one side of the tank. this eb8 will likely have both (or just the master) plugged into the UPS.

If the power goes out can/will it?

1) keep the main apex control unit and display alive?
2) can I control it so only the mp40's run while power is out, but other items plugged into the EB8 will be off?

Also, what if I only have the master mp40 plugged in, I assume it will run that one only (of course) but primarily keep my night mode settings.

kayl
05/23/2011, 04:47 PM
Do you have the WXM controlling the vortechs?

gig
05/23/2011, 05:01 PM
nope, right now the vortechs are plugged into the eb8's, just using the standard ecosmart stuff

rbredding
05/23/2011, 05:09 PM
yes.. you can do as you describe... just set the vortechs up to a controlled outlet and make sure that the base module's aquabus line is plugged into the EB8 that is on the APC..

the apc will power the EB8 and the base module (uninterrupted)... but here's the thing... you'll not be able to distinguish which outlets will or won't be able to work on that particular EB8 (because as far as the base module will know, there won't be a power out situation..)

gig
05/23/2011, 05:11 PM
thanks rbredding...I thought there was someway that the eb8 knew of the power failure and could tell certain outlets to remain on and other off?

RussM
05/23/2011, 06:28 PM
Let's say you have the 2 EB8 modules, designated as EB8_3 and EB8_4. EB8_4 is the one that is on the UPS. For those outlets on EB8_4 that you don't want running if EB8_3 has no power, use this:

If Power EB8_3 OFF 000 Then OFF

I only have one EB8, so I can't test this, but I don't see why it wouldn't work.

rbredding
05/23/2011, 06:34 PM
I thought the power on/off condition was global (base unit) not a particular EB8/4 ....

RussM
05/23/2011, 06:56 PM
There's both... If Power Apex and If Power EBx_x.

rbredding
05/23/2011, 07:04 PM
wow.. you REALLY CAN do just about anything with this controller.. (love mine!)

aquamanic
05/23/2011, 08:47 PM
Russ is correct - each EB8 reports their power separately so in the OP scenario, you monitor the unprotected EB8 and turn outlets on the protected EB8 ON/OFF as needed during a power failure.

gig
05/23/2011, 09:58 PM
thanks guys, just got done setting it up, worked like a charm!

RussM
05/23/2011, 10:40 PM
:bounce3:

Would you post your programming for the benefit of others?

gig
05/24/2011, 08:14 AM
Hey Russ, it's exactly like you said, I put the following statement in front of everything on the EB8 plugged into the UPS

If Power EB8_3 OFF 000 Then OFF

I have two, one is EB8_3 and the other one was renamed EB8_5 a while ago. The EB8_5 is plugged into the UPS.

so everything plugged into the EB8_5 has this statement first, except the outlet with my master MP40 plugged into it.

kayl
05/24/2011, 08:33 AM
Is the "If Power" Statement not affected by where it is in the program?

RussM
05/24/2011, 08:49 AM
Is the "If Power" Statement not affected by where it is in the program?

The usual statement sequential processing order applies.

gig
05/24/2011, 08:51 AM
Russ, should I be putting it first?

swearint
05/24/2011, 08:52 AM
Here is a technique you can use to 'power save' during an outage.

[Main Pump]
OSC 000/20:00/40:00 Then ON
If Power EB8_3 ON 000 Then ON

When EB8_3 has power, the main pump will run normally, ie constant. When power is lost on EB8_3, then the OSC will prevail and cycle the pump. This of course assumes the pump is on the EB8 that has backup power.

Todd

RussM
05/24/2011, 08:57 AM
Russ, should I be putting it first?Probably not. Since a power outage is an abnormal event, you'd probably want the If Power... statement last in the programming for each applicable outlet so that it takes precedence over all prior statements.

RussM
05/24/2011, 09:04 AM
Great idea Todd!

But this concept needs to be used with caution. AC-powered pumps may not run well on many UPSs, and even with the part-time operation, could run hot and/or quickly drain a UPS. See this thread for more on this: http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1961309

Here is a technique you can use to 'power save' during an outage.

[Main Pump]
OSC 000/20:00/40:00 Then ON
If Power EB8_3 ON 000 Then ON

When EB8_3 has power, the main pump will run normally, ie constant. When power is lost on EB8_3, then the OSC will prevail and cycle the pump. This of course assumes the pump is on the EB8 that has backup power.

Todd

gig
05/24/2011, 12:31 PM
ok, thanks Russ... so here's one of my lights now

Fallback OFF
Set OFF
If Time 12:30 to 21:30 Then ON
If Temp > 80.0 Then OFF
Min Time 030:00 Then OFF
If Power EB8_3 Off 000 Then OFF


one more question, for the outlet I have my vortechs plugged into, I just have the following, is this right? (I have it on manual on, so I guess it doesn't matter, but if I switch to auto:

Fallback OFF
Set OFF

If I want this on auto, should I switch to

Fallback ON
Set ON

Then always on, no matter what? would I do the same for my skimmer bum (GenX) or main pump (dart)?

gig
05/24/2011, 12:37 PM
ok, last question...the UPS is on a GFI the other EB8 is plugged into a seperate circuit that is on the ceiling above the tank but not GFI (it's pretty much well out of the way of water and my lighting system protects anything from falling into the tank).

what if the GFI trips causing the UPS to run and it's essentially powering my two external pumps (dart and genx) and some lighting, it'll run the UPS down in a matter of a few minutes, while the other EB8 has power, any ideas?

aquamanic
05/24/2011, 02:30 PM
program it to send you an email then remotely connect and look at the amp usage of the non-UPS protected EB8. If power is out it will be 0.

aquamanic
05/24/2011, 02:34 PM
Gig - a point about your GFCI comment. The GFCI is to protect a person from harm if there's a fault in your building ground. This means if current finds a way to ground OTHER than through your building wiring - like through your arm when it's in your tank. So as long as there's water, electric components and a person, you should have it running on a GFCI outlet.

I'd replace the outlet you have in the ceiling.

gig
05/24/2011, 02:42 PM
Thanks Alan, I'll definately look into replacing it.

on your first point about programming the email, not following?? :D

swearint
05/24/2011, 03:01 PM
Alan was suggesting that you add a similar power command to your email code. So that whenever one or the other EB8s lose power you will get an email notice. If the GFCI has tripped and run down the battery, the other EB8 will still have power and keep the base unit functional. The other critical piece of the puzzle is that you need battery backup to the modem and router and hope that your ISP is still operational.

Todd

gig
05/24/2011, 03:19 PM
Alan was suggesting that you add a similar power command to your email code. So that whenever one or the other EB8s lose power you will get an email notice. If the GFCI has tripped and run down the battery, the other EB8 will still have power and keep the base unit functional. The other critical piece of the puzzle is that you need battery backup to the modem and router and hope that your ISP is still operational.

Todd

gotcha, makes sense!

yep, I am going to either buy some cheapo battery backups for the wifi adapter and my modem/router, like these:

http://www.google.com/products?hl=en&q=Belkin+Battery+Backup+BU3DC000-12V+Power+Supply&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=9XMITPTINI3MNerEubUE&sa=X&oi=product_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4&ved=0CDkQrQQwAw

gig
05/25/2011, 08:30 AM
hey guys, this is my current email alarm setup, does this work?

Set OFF
If Temp > 81.8 Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then ON
If Temp < 76.0 Then ON
Defer 001:00 Then ON
If Power EB8_5 Off 000 Then ON
If Power EB8_3 Off 000 Then ON
If Power Apex Off 000 Then ON

Orcrone
05/25/2011, 08:57 AM
The Defer command refers to the outlet, not just a program statement. So you only need one defer command.

swearint
05/25/2011, 12:43 PM
The Defer is also evaluated last regardless of position. I prefer to place them at the end, just so it reads more easily.

The 'If Power Apex OFF 000...' probably won't do you much good since the Apex must have power to operate. But, if you change it from 000 to 001, it will send the email after it regains power.

Todd