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View Full Version : ESV B-IONIC salt systems users please check in.


pmrossetti
06/03/2011, 02:33 PM
How are you likin' it?

How does it compare to your previous salt/salts?

Worth the mixing?

thanks

snorvich
06/03/2011, 04:18 PM
Love it. No hassles. Will not change away from it either!!!

:lol2:

Bilk
06/03/2011, 04:26 PM
What snorvich said! :) It's really the best I've ever used. I don't know of another salt you can mix and pretty much immediately add to the tank without seeing any signs of stress from the inhabitants. And all the parameters are well balanced for UNLS too.

pmrossetti
06/03/2011, 06:42 PM
looks like issues with it on reef chemistry forum.

mozz
06/04/2011, 09:27 AM
I love it, mixes easy and crystal clear. No sludge lying in the bottom of my mixing tank.

pmrossetti
06/04/2011, 10:14 PM
more input?

rtparty
06/04/2011, 10:18 PM
Even with my recent alkalinity issues I really like it. It mixes super clear with no sludge of any kind. I am starting to think I got some fluke bad batch with mine. Bob at ESV is waiting on my test results and he is going to send me whatever components I need to fix the issues at no cost. He is even going to pay for me to ship anything back to him so he can test it all and see where something failed.

pmrossetti
06/04/2011, 10:34 PM
Even with my recent alkalinity issues I really like it. It mixes super clear with no sludge of any kind. I am starting to think I got some fluke bad batch with mine. Bob at ESV is waiting on my test results and he is going to send me whatever components I need to fix the issues at no cost. He is even going to pay for me to ship anything back to him so he can test it all and see where something failed.


wow,that's great rt, a class act. hopefully this is your salt finally.I wish there was one this good that you didn't have to mix together.

Pretty good numbers on the new Kent Reef Salt and mixes clear too.See my thread here on it. Let us know how the ESV drama plays out.

dublo8
06/04/2011, 11:13 PM
I'm not trying to start a salt war or anything but how do you guys call this no hassle when every component needs to be individually measured out? I'm a red sea coral pro guy myself and I thought about using the ESV system but it sounds like to much work to me. I know it's a great product and I trust everything else they make but just too tedious IMO.

pmrossetti
06/04/2011, 11:22 PM
I'm not trying to start a salt war or anything but how do you guys call this no hassle when every component needs to be individually measured out? I'm a red sea coral pro guy myself and I thought about using the ESV system but it sounds like to much work to me. I know it's a great product and I trust everything else they make but just too tedious IMO.

I agree d, salt should be a one step process. put it in the ro.

but with all the crummy salts we have this may be all we have.

see my thread on salt problems.

snorvich
06/05/2011, 05:35 AM
Benefits exceed costs. Mixes to parameters I like.

Bilk
06/05/2011, 08:51 AM
For those that feel mixing ESV is a hassle, well it really isn't. A batch can be mixed clear in about 5 minutes. I like knowing the components have been purified. Just posting this if you haven't seen it. Advanced Aquarist (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/5/review)

pmrossetti
06/05/2011, 06:49 PM
For those that feel mixing ESV is a hassle, well it really isn't. A batch can be mixed clear in about 5 minutes. I like knowing the components have been purified. Just posting this if you haven't seen it. Advanced Aquarist (http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/5/review)


the esv approach makes a lot of sense. look forward to reviews.

pmrossetti
06/05/2011, 07:23 PM
does it work ok with the scoopers or is the scale needed.

rtparty
06/05/2011, 07:44 PM
does it work ok with the scoopers or is the scale needed.

I have been using the measuring cups and beaker they provide. Bob said either will work but the scale will get more consistent results.

I have been thinking about running to the store and grabbing a cheap digital kitchen scale and trying that out.

I am performing the tests right now that Bob recommended. My Salifert test kit is off by 2dkh. It read RO/DI water at 2dkh and it read the check solution at about 9dkh which makes sense.

I am now finishing everything up on the tests. I will post again when I get my results.

pmrossetti
06/05/2011, 07:50 PM
I have been using the measuring cups and beaker they provide. Bob said either will work but the scale will get more consistent results.

I have been thinking about running to the store and grabbing a cheap digital kitchen scale and trying that out.

I am performing the tests right now that Bob recommended. My Salifert test kit is off by 2dkh. It read RO/DI water at 2dkh and it read the check solution at about 9dkh which makes sense.

I am now finishing everything up on the tests. I will post again when I get my results.


great, I'm with you.

blue736
06/05/2011, 11:30 PM
does the 200 gallon kit make 200 gallons?

Bilk
06/05/2011, 11:56 PM
does it work ok with the scoopers or is the scale needed.

I've been using the supplied measuring scoops and beaker too and I get consistent results.

snorvich
06/06/2011, 05:01 AM
I've been using the supplied measuring scoops and beaker too and I get consistent results.

Likewise.

pmrossetti
06/06/2011, 05:31 PM
waitin' on rtparty to check in with his findings.

tankfly
06/06/2011, 05:39 PM
+1 for ESV
As long as i can get it I will never use anything else. I work as a chemist for a pharmaceutical company, Baxter Healthcare. I have tested the calcium and magnesium by atomic absorption. I like the fact you can adjust the components to whatever target concentration you want. I can mix it as fast or faster than any blended salt and use it immediately. I use a scale and graduated cylinders for the liquids and don't even have to check salinity.

pmrossetti
06/06/2011, 05:54 PM
+1 for ESV
As long as i can get it I will never use anything else. I work as a chemist for a pharmaceutical company, Baxter Healthcare. I have tested the calcium and magnesium by atomic absorption. I like the fact you can adjust the components to whatever target concentration you want. I can mix it as fast or faster than any blended salt and use it immediately. I use a scale and graduated cylinders for the liquids and don't even have to check salinity.


esv is lookin' pretty good. a trustworthy company.

what do you mean you don't check salinity?
how do you know what it is then?

tankfly
06/06/2011, 05:58 PM
I checked it until I got the right amounts of each component. And then if I weigh the same amount of NaCl and Mg sulfate each time and use the same volume (or weight) of liquid A and B and dissolve in the same volume of water the SG has to be right.

lordofthereef
06/06/2011, 06:13 PM
I did a quick search on this stuff. Is it really $30 per 50 gallon batch?

Postal
06/06/2011, 06:46 PM
I did a quick search on this stuff. Is it really $30 per 50 gallon batch?

I pay about $75 for the 200g size at my LFS. Of course, their prices are often as good or better than online prices on dry goods.

snorvich
06/06/2011, 06:53 PM
I pay about $75 for the 200g size at my LFS. Of course, their prices are often as good or better than online prices on dry goods.

Same here. I buy it online and get free shipping. Great salt. Once you have the formula down, it comes out the same every time. SG, Mg, Ca, etc.

pmrossetti
06/07/2011, 10:04 AM
I have been using the measuring cups and beaker they provide. Bob said either will work but the scale will get more consistent results.

I have been thinking about running to the store and grabbing a cheap digital kitchen scale and trying that out.

I am performing the tests right now that Bob recommended. My Salifert test kit is off by 2dkh. It read RO/DI water at 2dkh and it read the check solution at about 9dkh which makes sense.

I am now finishing everything up on the tests. I will post again when I get my results.


how's it going?

rtparty
06/07/2011, 01:45 PM
how's it going?

Quick update:

My time is super thin anymore. Started school yesterday and working full time. I will update as I can.

I mixed up one gallon of water and added just component B to see what alk reading I would get. My test came in right at 10.2dkh which is the advertised alkalinity for ESV. Bob retested his saved batch and got 10.1dkh on his sample.

There are a couple theories

1) I'm an idiot and messed up on the recipe at least 3 times.
2) The additional alkalinity is coming from somehwere else, more than likely component A. That is almost impossible because the alk and calcium would precipitate being that concentrated together.

Bob highly doubts it is coming the nacl or mg sulfate because they are guaranteed batches from his supplier. They are super pure.

Theory 1 makes the most sense in theory, but I don't think I messed up that many times. Especially with my wife helping on the final batch.

Bob is sending me a whole new unit from what I know and I am shipping him samples of the dry ingredients. Over 100 other hobbyists received my exact batch and not a single complaint.

The whole thing is odd but for now I am still a huge ESV fan and their customer service is top notch! I am going to make one more batch and see what happens.

Rookie07
06/07/2011, 02:20 PM
I love it as well. I switched back to IO Reef Crystals for a moth at some point, but did not like how the corals looked, so I switched back to ESV

I do 15 gl WC on each of my Solanas (I have 2 Solanas) every 3 weeks with ESV salt and I no longer add any chemicals/trace elements. I would dose with ESV 2 part in the past, but since using ESV salt, I no longer ad 2 part to either tank, and I still have nice growth in my zoas/palys and LPS.

pmrossetti
06/07/2011, 02:33 PM
Quick update:

My time is super thin anymore. Started school yesterday and working full time. I will update as I can.

I mixed up one gallon of water and added just component B to see what alk reading I would get. My test came in right at 10.2dkh which is the advertised alkalinity for ESV. Bob retested his saved batch and got 10.1dkh on his sample.

There are a couple theories

1) I'm an idiot and messed up on the recipe at least 3 times.
2) The additional alkalinity is coming from somehwere else, more than likely component A. That is almost impossible because the alk and calcium would precipitate being that concentrated together.

Bob highly doubts it is coming the nacl or mg sulfate because they are guaranteed batches from his supplier. They are super pure.

Theory 1 makes the most sense in theory, but I don't think I messed up that many times. Especially with my wife helping on the final batch.

Bob is sending me a whole new unit from what I know and I am shipping him samples of the dry ingredients. Over 100 other hobbyists received my exact batch and not a single complaint.

The whole thing is odd but for now I am still a huge ESV fan and their customer service is top notch! I am going to make one more batch and see what happens.

thanks Ryan, has the Mag level been ok. it's been questioned on other thread.

Glad you're busy, but sure will miss your regular input on here. I always check to see when your online. please post next batch numbers . thanks again

rtparty
06/08/2011, 10:25 PM
thanks Ryan, has the Mag level been ok. it's been questioned on other thread.

Glad you're busy, but sure will miss your regular input on here. I always check to see when your online. please post next batch numbers . thanks again


Well here is a great update for you!

I made another gallon today and the numbers were almost dead on! The salinity is a little low but my water temp was about 74F instead of the advertised 77-78F. I am not sure how much salinity changes with temp.

Alk - 10.1dkh
Ca - 440ppm
SG - 1.023-24
Mg - Don't have a test kit right now, sorry.

So I guess I was the error in the whole thing? Maybe letting the newly mixed SW sit in a container for a couple days is doing something? I don't know but my latest makeup was perfect!

I immediately changed a gallon on my tank and things perked up. I would not hesitate to change 50% of my water with this salt. I may even go crazy and do a nice 100% water change here in the near future.

Hope that answers some questions for everyone.

pmrossetti
06/08/2011, 10:33 PM
great news Ryan, thanks for the update.

Do you think you would get to the point where you wouldn't have to constantly test using this salt?
or it's just part of using this salt?

thanks again.

muffe
06/08/2011, 11:01 PM
$59.99 for the 200g That's why i use it. :lolspin:

AGYDAL
06/08/2011, 11:04 PM
How are you likin' it?
-very happy, my tanks look awesome.

How does it compare to your previous salt/salts?
-My tanks showed improvement with their FIRST regularly scheduled water change using this salt mix. I don't want to talk about my previous salt; if you can't say something nice, you just shouldn't say anything at all.

Worth the mixing?
-I'm just starting my second 200gal pack (paid ~$75.oo for it). The mixing isn't a big deal...no more tedious than testing your water, I like the ability to control the parameters. It's a very simple salt to use.

andyrm66
06/09/2011, 12:28 AM
$59.99 for the 200g That's why i use it. :lolspin:

Where?

I love this salt, takes 2 mins more to measure, but beats the crap left behind plus letting it sit in my way for 24 hours mixing.

rtparty
06/09/2011, 10:49 AM
great news Ryan, thanks for the update.

Do you think you would get to the point where you wouldn't have to constantly test using this salt?
or it's just part of using this salt?

thanks again.

Testing my tank or the new water?

I always advise testing your tank about once a week (maybe every two weeks). I don't follow that regime very well but I still recommend it.

As for testing the new water, I don't think I will test my next batch. I will go slow and add everything properly. I think what might have helped was that I added component B very slow. I literally let it drip in to the water. Maybe adding it quickly was causing issues? I am not a chemist and have very little knowledge when it comes to the chemistry side of things.

All I know is that there are "laws" when it comes to mixing things. If you add X grams of Sodium Chloride to Y amount of water, you get Z (salinity). (x+y=z)

Since I know that 38mL of Component A gets me to ~440ppm of calcium, I am not worried about testing for it, as long as I add it correctly. I also know that 19mL of Component B nets me an alkalinity of ~10.2dkh.

The measuring beakers and scoops are great to use but I see how a quality digital scale would benefit the results. I don't think there would be a huge difference in the end but something to consider.

rtparty
06/09/2011, 10:55 AM
I do want to point something out though that I have read on this thread and others.

This salt isn't really made for us to adjust the parameters. I talked to Bob about this exact thing. He told me that if you short out on the components, you aren't just lowering the Calcium or Alkalinity. You are also affecting other trace elements that are found in those components. The whole system is balanced out to whatever they test for.

I personally like to run my tanks around 8dkh so the 10dkh seems a little high but it isn't. A 20% water change isn't going to affect my alk that much. Also on a large, mature tank the extra alkalinity will be consumed pretty quickly.

Just wanted to clear that up.

muffe
06/09/2011, 11:00 AM
I see how a quality digital scale would benefit the results. I don't think there would be a huge difference in the end but something to consider.

I got my pocket digital scale online for only $10.00 shipped. Works like a charm, very accurate to a tenth of a gram. I've seen "pharmaceutical distributors" use them to measure "products" so they're well field tested and reliable.:lolspin:

rtparty
06/09/2011, 11:01 AM
I got my pocket digital scale online for only $10.00 shipped. Works like a charm very accurate to a tenth of a gram. I've seen "pharmaceutical distributors" use them to measure "products" so they're well field tested.:lolspin:

Awesome! Do you have a link for all of us?

pmrossetti
06/09/2011, 11:25 AM
good point about not adjusting parameters. it's supposed to be a balanced mix, right?

muffe
06/09/2011, 11:51 AM
Awesome! Do you have a link for all of us?

http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=150575929377 :wavehand:

That's the one I bought, there are many vendors selling that particular model for around $10.00:wavehand:

MakomekTVN
06/09/2011, 12:54 PM
If you have sensitive corals like SPS the best way to go is measure by weight.Measuring with those cups is not the same parameter on every mix. Eventho I've never weight but I heard positive feedback from others .

AGYDAL
06/09/2011, 01:51 PM
good point about not adjusting parameters. it's supposed to be a balanced mix, right?

Speaking for only myself, when I said I like the ability to control parameters; I was meaning by only combining the mixtures right before use, there is less of a chance of it going "funky" while sitting in the bucket...the reason I switched to ESV was that my previous salt went funky 3/4 of the way through a bucket. (by funky, I mean I have no clue what happened, could have been moisture, bad batch, Murphy's Law...who knows)


I do use a digital scale to measure my batches, and every time my salt mixes perfectly. I just finished my first 200gallons of this salt(I usually mix 15 gallons at a time), when I mixed my final batch I only had ONE of the mixes that was short by about half a cup (I had spilled a half cup on the floor during an earlier batch) and the other three measured out almost exactly :dance:

snorvich
06/09/2011, 01:55 PM
I do 40 gallons at a crack. Works perfectly for me. The high alkalinity compensates for lower dosing of alkalinity in my Balling Method. Love the salt.

pmrossetti
06/09/2011, 08:54 PM
what do you get for mg??

muffe
06/12/2011, 01:37 PM
Mixing a 5 gallon batch as per instructions with digital scale

1.024 specific gravity, 78 degrees temperature, aerated for 24 hours

CA 460ppm (Elos)
ALK 8.6dKH (Salifert)
MG 1335ppm (Salifert)

rkaires
06/12/2011, 02:11 PM
$59.99 for the 200g That's why i use it. :lolspin:

Wow that's a great price. May I ask where you purchase it?

BTW best salt I've used to date.

muffe
06/18/2011, 05:23 PM
Wow that's a great price. May I ask where you purchase it?

BTW best salt I've used to date.

$59.99 for 200g box set.

Pets Warehouse in
Carle Place
177 Glen Cove Rd
516.307.1525

rkaires
06/18/2011, 05:32 PM
Thanks! :rollface:

JG1
06/19/2011, 12:10 PM
I just tested my batch

9.2dkh (Hanna)
500 Ca (salifert)
1350 Mg (Salifert)


I'm a little disappointed the Ca is so high

JG1
06/19/2011, 12:16 PM
Just tried a different salifert Ca kit, still got 500 for calcium

rkaires
06/19/2011, 05:47 PM
I got 440ca on my last batch with Elos.

muffe
06/19/2011, 06:42 PM
If your calcium is too high just dilute with RO/DI water.

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/096/044/original/trollface.jpg?1296494117

JG1
06/19/2011, 07:04 PM
If your calcium is too high just dilute with RO/DI water.

http://cdn2.knowyourmeme.com/i/000/096/044/original/trollface.jpg?1296494117

LOL, then all the parameters drop, not just the Ca

JG1
06/19/2011, 07:05 PM
I got 440ca on my last batch with Elos.

Salifert sent me a Ca check solution and my kit reads about 10ppm higher then the checker...I dunno..

Bilk
06/19/2011, 09:35 PM
Salifert sent me a Ca check solution and my kit reads about 10ppm higher then the checker...I dunno..
So if the test of reference solution reads 10ppm higher then you know how to adjust your results of tank water.

JG1
06/20/2011, 07:03 AM
So if the test of reference solution reads 10ppm higher then you know how to adjust your results of tank water.

Yeah, still high though around 490ppm after adjusting.

Was under the impression that this salt mix was more balanced towards NSW in both Ca and Alk....both are high

orcus
06/20/2011, 10:27 AM
Sounds like there are some nice benefits with this salt. I'm going to try it out. One question though, how do you measure the water precisely?

With other salts, I just fill up a Brute trashcan to roughly the right level and add salt mix until it checks out with the refractometer.

It sounds like maybe the exact amount of water is part of the formula with Bionic. What am I missing? Thanks.

muffe
06/20/2011, 05:58 PM
One question though, how do you measure the water precisely? Thanks.

I just fill the jug up to the same line on the neck every time. Since the neck is tapered, a few millimeters + or - won't make a significant difference.:thumbsup:

http://image.made-in-china.com/4f0j00MCOaSTgFbucf/5-Gallon-Water-Bottle-PC-Bottle.jpg

rtparty
06/20/2011, 06:09 PM
Yeah, still high though around 490ppm after adjusting.

Was under the impression that this salt mix was more balanced towards NSW in both Ca and Alk....both are high

This salt isn't balanced towards nsw. The parameters are printed on the box.

500ppm calcium isn't high to me. Most hobby grade kits are off around 50ppm, so your 500 could easily be 450. It could be 550 too, lol.

I trust ESV's machines and testing more than my test kits.

Wolfgang
06/20/2011, 06:13 PM
I used roughly a bit over 200 gals of this Salt mix total on my 65G SPS Reef.
Mag tested low (1000 mg to be exact). Tested with two different Elos kits, one newly purchased from BRS just to verify low readings.
Brother in Laws 180 SPS also tested low mag using this Salt.
Same test kits test Reef Crystals at proper Mag levels, and is the salt I switched back to.(Both kits Identical).
ESV Salt was weighed out with a quality digital Scale. Not sure why some report low Mag levels and, and some do not.
Other people have reported the same exact Low MAg readings as I got, 1000 MG.
-Wolfgang

muffe
06/20/2011, 06:33 PM
Boycott test kits!

Wolfgang
06/20/2011, 06:42 PM
Well if that's true, we may as well forget about the Sticky on Salt Mix data gathered by member Billybeau1, as pretty much EVERYONE refers to it, and guess what? He used Hobby Grade Kits, Elos being one, and most reported to there accuracy back then.. So what Changed?
And why does the same kits show Reef Crystals where it should be, But the ESV Low? I guess the ESV is the only correct mix, and everything on that list is then in serious error, and our Mag levels must be Sky High?
We better all switch to the ESV then!;)

afernandez
06/20/2011, 07:16 PM
Honest truth... I changed from evs to deltec h2o. Y ? B/c mixing and waiting wassent my thing ....a month later I'm back to esv ! My corals where doing way better with esv

muffe
06/21/2011, 08:23 PM
I'm back to esv ! My corals where doing way better with esv

This ^:thumbsup:

You can look at the numbers or you can look at your tank. I prefer the later.:lmao: