Bacterial Bloom all over

[abhishek@1985]

Hi all,

Have been dosing vodka in my 25 gal nano tank for the last 9 months.. Vodka dosage went upto 3 ml per day.
Was able to keep nitrates down to 0 . However , for the last 2 weeks, there has been an algae outbreak with cyano and hair algae..

Started running GFO. However , theer is a huge bacterial bloom (I suppose) in my tank . All the rocks have been covered in white dust like substance..

Have stopped vodka...

Don't know what to do ..It looks so pale with all rocks covered in white dust like substance...

Please help....

[abhishek@1985]

Found this thread..
Well the algae type things I have in my tank looks exactly like the ones in the thread pics...

Also I have huge bacterial bllom....White dust all over my tank..

The corals are turning pale but however , my acros still have good PE..

Boomer , Cliff ..where are you guys? Help needed sir.

[abhishek@1985]

Forgot the thread...

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590050&highlight=fungus

Also have thought of stopping vodka and get Microbacter 7 or some bacterial source....

Is that a good plan to start with..

[abhishek@1985]

Anyone please provide some help or atleast same experience ...Its really frustrating to see the tank in this shape..

[HighlandReefer]

Could be a bacterial bloom from your discription or it could be a snow storm event (calcium carbonate precipitation) from too high a pH perhaps from too much high pH alk additive.

When vodka dosing it is recommended to cut your dose by 1/2 once your nitrate is undetectable.

Make sure your tank pH is not higher than 8.5.

Running a filter bag will help collect both calcium carbonate precipitants and bacteria from a bloom.

[abhishek@1985]

Thank God Cliff , you have atlast chimed in. Well I donot think its calcium carbonate precipitate as yesterday I did testing with new Salifert test kits...

Ca :- 450
Alk :- 8
PH :- 8.1

Well I am running Carbon and GFO and have undetectable nitrates and phosphates.. My acros are thriving with polyp extension . But most of the corals look pale in colour especially the zoanthids..

Could it be due to low nutrient in the tank....

Also there are patches of the similar kind of white transparent thread like long white strands of hair all around the tank..

So please tell me what should be done..

As of now I have planned the below activities :-

1. Cleansing the sump and the tank and siphoning as much as possible from the rocks.
2. Change the carbon and the GFO.
3. Stop vodka or any other carbon dosing.
4. Scrub the rocks and the powerheads off the green and white like strands.
5. Do a 25% water change.
6. Again repeat the same activities on Saturday or Sunday....

Anything more I could do please let me know....

[HighlandReefer]

Sounds good to me. As I stated before, running a filter bag will help clear up your tank water quicker.

Bacterial blooms in tanks do not seem to be very detrimental as far as I can tell from past events posted. Make sure you have plenty of water circulation at the surface area since these blooms can rob oxygen from the water column resulting in heavy breathing of fish. ;)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You changed nothing in the past week?

Maybe something accidently spilled into the tank or overdosed?

What do you normally dose?

[abhishek@1985]

Yeah it might not be too bad for the tank..But it has killed all the looks ..

All over its just like white dust and the tank walls and substrate are filled with white long threads...Even my return line has the green turf thread like shown in the atached mail...

Moreover , all my corals are pale in colour except for the Montipora and the acropora formosa..

Its so frustrating to look at the tank...

It may sound funny but by running a filter bag you mean to attach a micron sock like in the drainage line from the tank to the sump..Sorry the silly question asked..

Also I have very heavy surface agaitation and an oversized skimmer...

[Mike247]

from what ive read when dosing you ramp up your dose each time until you get the white bacterial bloom. then you just cut back your dose 1/4-1/2 and let the skimmer/bacteria do its job. ive been experimenting with sugar dosing, on a QT tank. it did the same thing, after a 2 weeks of ramping my dose i got the white cloud cut back a 1/4 and everything cleared up.

[abhishek@1985]

Randy... great for you to chime in..

Well I generally dose 3 ml of vodka to keep my nitrates and phosphates low.. Have been watching the whuite dust build up for quite a long time but thought it to be reason for some phosphates in teh water.. Hence started with the GFO..

It hasn't solved the problem and while going htough RC found that it is a case of bacterial bloom..

Please do advice what should be done ..

Also will using products like Micobacter 7 of any help?

[HighlandReefer]

"you mean to attach a micron sock like in the drainage line from the tank to the sump..Sorry the silly question asked.."

Yep. ;)

As Randy stated above you didn't increase feeding or any other supplements besides the vodka?

[abhishek@1985]

Yes Mike,
That's the mistake . I didn't cut back thinking that nitrates were 0 but phosphates are still high... Its my mistake and now the tank has to suffer..

All my zoanthids and mushrooms have also become quite pale..

[abhishek@1985]

Well I dose only Randy's 2 part solution that too not regularly as I donot have high demanding corals..

Nothing else other than feeding cyclopzee to fishes and corals...

[HighlandReefer]

The bacterial blooms seem to clean-up fairly easily over a few days.

I see no reason to dose bacterial supplements. You have plenty in your tank now. :)

I would hold off on feeding your tank until the bloom is over in a couple of days. ;)

[abhishek@1985]

Well I donot think the bloom will be over in a couple of days...

Its all white in my tank.. its actually driving me crazy.

Well what about the softies all becoming pale especially the zoanthids?

[HighlandReefer]

Not much else I can think of you can do other than to skim wet and to run a filter bag to remove the bacteria. Water changes don't seem to help much. Others have complained about zoanthids becoming pale, but for the most part it seems they do ok.

I'll keep my fingers crossed for you. :)

[abhishek@1985]

Have done 25% wc, cleared the sump of all detritus, started wet skim.. will get a micron bag today..

Cliff, do you think I should use Algaefix... or some kind o famino acids to feed the corals..

[maynardjames]

some zoanthids & softies like a little more nutrients then other corals in my experence. but i may be wrong

[abhishek@1985]

Forgot to mention I have only 2 fishes in my tank... a yellow watchman goby and a 6 line wrasse..

Will increasing the number of fishes and feeding more help the cause..

Also please do specify what food to use for the zoas and the lps along with an acro and a monti? All we get here are kent and TLF products in India..

[HighlandReefer]

Cliff, do you think I should use Algaefix... or some kind o famino acids to feed the corals..

No, I would not use AlgaeFix or add any ammino acids for your problem.

[abhishek@1985]

So no feeding for the softies? I was under the impression that the system needs some nutrients... All my zoas are more or less pale in colour as the system hardly has any nutrients...

Was thinking if feeding them will bring back the colour...

[HighlandReefer]

Has your water cleared yet?

[abhishek@1985]

Well have done 25% wc yesterday..
Removed all detritus from the sump and brushed out as much as white strands possible from the tank glass..
Changed the Carbon and GFO..

Still there are rocks which are covered with white detritus and green strands ...

Will do another brushing on saturday..

Water is always quite clear, Cliff.. Its the tank walls and the rocks which are covered with the dust..

It doesn't make me worry if my tank walls are dirty but it pains to see the zoanthids and the LPS loosing their colour and turning pale..

As example :- I have a brown zoanthid with deep orange eyes but now its yellow zoanthid with orange eyes..

Similarly, a brown palythoa with green inner circle is now almost white palythoa with light green inner circle..

And the worst is one local deep brown zoanthid which is almost light brown in colour....

But all the polyps are open...

[abhishek@1985]

Forgot to tell the parameters measured :-

Ca :- 450.
Alk :- 7.7.
Mg :- 1300.

Will bringing up the Alkalinity help a bit ..I have even stopped Randy's 2 part solution ...

[HighlandReefer]

Since the water column has cleared this is a good sign. ;)

The reduced color can be due to too much dissolved organics in your water (from the bacterial bloom) or could be from a sudden reduction of nitrate and phosphate available to the coral.

Running the GAC and doing water changes will reduce the dissolved organics. Normal feeding may be enough to return nitrate and phosphate levels to normal. Overfeeding can cause more problems.

I would not do anything drastic from what your were doing before the bloom. It may just take time for the coral to re cooperate.

[HighlandReefer]

I would maintain your alk and calcium at the appropriate levels.

[abhishek@1985]

Well reduction of nitrate and phosphates is not drastic...moreover if it was so , the change willbe first reflected in my acros..

Thanks for all the advice Cliff.. Will try and update in a couple of days unless today i see some great improvement once I go home...Also will try and post some pics if it anyways help you to identify...

So is my Ca and Alk look fine to you?

[HighlandReefer]

You're welcome. ;)

Your parameters listed look fine. I would not let alk drop more than where it is at. There can be error in test kits, I prefer to keep the alk at least above 7, perhaps 8.5 is safer.

[abhishek@1985]

Hmm.. I am using Salifert testkits.
Will raise the Alkalinity upto 8.5 as you have said over the next 2 days..

Lets see what happens.. Also I am supposed to pick up a pair of perculas.. Will it be a safe move to pick them up now?

[HighlandReefer]

I personally would wait until you get done cleaning all the bacterial masses from your rock and such. Adding new fish can be stressful on them & if you are in there scrubbing and cleaning it may add to their stress. ;)

FWIW, I always recommend placing new fish and coral in a quarantine tank for a while. :)

[abhishek@1985]

Well things have cleared out a bit after the water change..
Yesterday also I have siphoned some and have scrubbed the rocks ..

Will do another WC this sunday...

However, it seems quite stressing for the corals to keep on scrubbing the rocks..

Have also slowly started to raise the alkalinity.

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

You've stopped the organic carbon dosing, right?

[abhishek@1985]

Yes Randy...

However, it would have been great if I could post some pics ..But have no cam as all my extra money goes to my tank. Will try and arrange some cam to post the pics..

However , wanted to ask I have never dosed Magnesium but I feel that its low.. There's little coralline algae all over my tank..

So wanna know if it would be helpful if I get Mg tested properly using Salifert and then dose Mg,will it help in bringing back the colours of the zoanthids..

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

What salt mix do you use? That may impact the need for magnesium monitoring as some have excessive magnesium already and won't likely need more.

[Daniel Name]

Guys..

I'm having the same problem.

It's been a month now that my water is milky white. All my acros have died. I did a research and found nothing...

My tank was going ok but the corals didn't seem to be very nice. They were getting some colors but didn't grow. Than cyanos (i'm not sure if it is cyanos.. it took over inside the plumb too.. very strange) too place.

I cleaned everything.. skimmer, pumps, plumb and added gfo.

The next day it starts to get milky white and it remains the same until now.. yesterday was better, but today it's very milky again.

There's no cyanos anymore.. the rocks now has some transparent film now.

I was thinking about a uv filter.. but the tank should work without it..

The tank is in my room, that is close during the night because of the cold right now. I don't know if this changes anything.

Thanks!

[abhishek@1985]

Randy,here in India you get either Red Sea or Aquacraft salts .. I am using the Red Sea as its cheap and I can go for easy water change weekly...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Red Sea salts seem pretty close to NSW in terms of magnesium, so over time it may have gotten depleted, but I've not heard of any particular connection between magnesium and zooanthid coloration.

[Genetics]

I'm not sure why your tank is still turning milky white after water changes.

Do you find string-like material attached to your rocks in the morning?

Are you still dosing two part?

If you take out the milky water does it precipitate to the bottom?

I used Red Sea Pro and found that the alkalinity preferred to stay lower.

[abhishek@1985]

Well update here...
Have stopped vodka for the past 8 days..
All the bacterial bloom has resided.
My zoanthids have got back their deep colouration..Not much effect on sps apart from one small frag of Acropora Formosa becoming brown but still with polyp extension.

But new problem has come up..

I am now getting long thread like brown algae all over my tank..

Don't know what's going on..What type of algae it is..

Here's the photo update :-

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0012.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0013.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0016.jpg

[abhishek@1985]

Randy,Cliff...what type of algae are these? I guess my phosphates are quite high now but my acros show not much change..

The green ones are all green with even better polyp extension..

Help me plzz

[HighlandReefer]

I'm not sure from your pictures what pest you have.

Do you have a phosphate & nitrate kit? If not I would suggest you get one to see where these levels are at. ;)

The bacterial bloom may have reduced nitrate and phosphate quite a bit.

I would concentrate on cleaning your tank up including all the pest. Get all the detritus out. Run a GFO type product. Run GAC.

The normal recommendations for algae type pest control:

There are a lot of hobbyists in your same position. Reducing your nitrate and phosphate levels to a zero reading will help in getting rid of many type of algae and/or cyanobacterial pests. IME, reducing nitrate and phosphate levels too low can kill or cause problems for many types of soft coral. Running GAC & GFO will all help in reducing the growth of these type of pests. In many cases they will not eradicate the pest even when phosphate and nitrate are extremely low. Vinegar and/or Vodka dosing will help reduce the nitrate and phosphate levels also, but will not necessarily eradicate the pest either.

A common problem is being able to identify your pest to a category correctly: true algae, cyano, dino, bacteria & other assorted pests that look similar. In many cases a micro look at your pest is best to properly ID it to one of these categories.

IMHO, if you are faced with an algal type pest problem, it is best to implement an algae pest control program strategy:


1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) Running a diatom filter which has been suggested by Boomer, makes a lot of sense to me. It will help remove a lot of organic material in your water column.

16) For some additional thoughts regarding switching an algae based system to a bacterial based system see this thread:
(Using a carbon source with appropriate bacterial dosing may possibly help to push your system to where you want it although this is controversial.)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781320

17) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.

[GlenG]

Do you RO/DI your source water? Is TDS at zero?

[abhishek@1985]

Thanks Cliff and Glen..

1. Well the nitrates are at zero but I find that after stopping the vodka its now at 5-10 ppm using API test kit..It seems helpful to bring the zoas back to colour.

2. I am sure phosphates are high but my salifert kit is old and hence showing wrong reading!!! Will start running GFO in a reactor from tomorrow as I am running them now in a HOB filter and its not helping things...

3. I am using RO/DI water with TDS 0.

4. Have only 2 fishes whom I haven't fed for the last 7 days...

5. Dosing only ALK and Ca according to Randy's Recipe 31.

6. Funnily, the acros are showing great colour and green green colouration after stopping vodka with great polyp extension!!!! I am confused!!!!

7. Will do a 25% water change tomorrow...

Everything put together I believe its low nitrates and high phosphates that causing the issue..

Wanna know if its cyano and is it possible to erradicate the problem without ripping the tank down...

I am all confused!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[GlenG]

Im surprised with only 2 fish in your 25 gallon your nitrates are above zero and you had to vodka dose. Do you have enough live rock? Big debate on how much, I have around 1 pound per gallon.

[HighlandReefer]

abhishek@1985,

How often do you siphon and clean your sand bed?

[abhishek@1985]

Well I have been feeding them heavily and also my tank when I had sun corals wit me.. I guess its the cyclopzee that's the culprit althpugh my corals love to eat them..

Well I have coral chips as the substrate and I do syphon it once a month

[HighlandReefer]

Coral chips, are they like crushed coral? If so, crushed coral is condusive to high nitrates since it allow more debris to fall down into it. Slowly replacing crushed coral with an appropriate reef sand, will work better IMHO. ;)

[abhishek@1985]

Hmm... so if I replace the entire coral sand with carib sea live aragonite .. Is it going to affect the bacterial system if I change my substrate all together

[HighlandReefer]

I switched out crushed coral for aragonite reef sand and this helped a lot to reduce nitrate. The coarser the substrate the harder it is to maintain and keep debris out of it.

Personally I prefer dead sand to live sand, especially the bagged live sand which is conducive to anaerobic conditions. In some cases bagged live sand smells strong of sulfur when opened.

[abhishek@1985]

So did you change the entire substrate at one shot.. And introducing aragonite in an established reef..did it have any harmful effects?

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Adding aragonite sand generally has little immediate impact on reef tanks. Maybe a slight dip in pH or alk, but that is minor and short term.

[abhishek@1985]

Thanks for all the suggestions..

Have vaccumed the sump..
Changed 25% of water..
Added a phosphate reactor..

Will change the substrate soon but before that wanna see if water change and gfo helps bit..

Will update you as it progresses

[abhishek@1985]

Ok Randy,Cliff... here's is the update :-

1. Have vaccumed the sump and performed 25% water change.
2. Have installed a TMC Phosphate reactor with 100 gms of GFO .
3. Tomorrow planning for another water change with scrubbing the rocks and the tank walls and substrate..

4. Have removed all the cheato and will get a fresh batch to start with.

Here is what I have observed :-

After stopping the vodka, the white thread like hair bacterial bloom is totally gone.
All my zoanthids have regained their deep colouration.
However, it gave rise to a bigger problem..
Tank is covered with brown thread like algae now as posted in the previous posts in Page - 2.
Chacked the nitrates with new API test kit - 0.
Phosphates are high but I expect them to go down now with 2 big water changes and GFO running..

Randy,Cliff - I know its difficult to say what pest I have in my tank from the pathetic pics I have posted .. But by any chance are they some form of Dinos in your knowledge..

Also how long should I keep the GFO running before changing the media?

Please help...

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

Could be dinos. Is it sort of snotty if you poke at it?

[HighlandReefer]

This is a picture of dinos from Randy's article:

Problem Dinoflagellates and pH
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/index.php


http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-11/rhf/images/DinosFigure2.jpg

[abhishek@1985]

Well its brown hair like as shown below:-

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0023.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0022.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0021.jpg

http://i578.photobucket.com/albums/ss229/abhishek1985_2009/Reef/Photo0020.jpg

This is the best photo i have....

Don't know what the hell are they...

[HighlandReefer]

When was the last time you cleaned your glass and scrubbed this stuff off your rock?

[abhishek@1985]

The rocks are scrubbed off a week before.. Ofcourse this part of the glass hasn't been scrubbed for the last 2 weeks...

[abhishek@1985]

Cliff, Randy.. Can I start with vinegar dosing ..

Like 1 ml for 25 gals for 1-3 days, 2 ml for 4-7 days and then increase the volume by 5 ml for every subsequent week..

Is there any harm as the bacterial bloom has resided..

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

The only risk is another one starting again. Watch closely as you begin dosing.

Do you have a refugium? Do you run GAC? You may want to dose in a way that encourages the bacteria to grow somewhere besides the main tank.

[sabbath]

The only risk is another one starting again. Watch closely as you begin dosing.
You may want to dose in a way that encourages the bacteria to grow somewhere besides the main tank.

I have been wondering how to do that. Is there any good effective ways to do that?

[abhishek@1985]

Yes Randy .. I have a refugium and am running GAC in filter sock in the sump..

So how to allow bacteria to grow somewhere else and not the DT ..

Are you referring towards the usage of Biopellets?

[HighlandReefer]

The rocks are scrubbed off a week before.. Ofcourse this part of the glass hasn't been scrubbed for the last 2 weeks...

Say no to this pest and debris in your tank. I would clean the glass more often. If your skimmer is not as good as it could be, I would run a filter bag to help collect scrapped off pest and debris from your water column. Siphon off all pest and debris from your rock and sand bed. ;)

[abhishek@1985]

I don't blame the skimmer ..its good enough..may be I should scrap pff the glass once in 3 days..

Have carried out another 20% water change today with removing as much as I could..

[abhishek@1985]

Cliff, Randy..
Had a great day studying all yours old posts in RC chemistry section.

Well had a peculiar idea..

We know that bacteria is proven to fix nitrate faster than phosphates in the ratio of 10:1 to 30:1 depending upon the strains( forgive me if I am wrong).

Now my tank and many others have the common problem with vodka dosing..

Nitrate 0 but phosphates still high.

So inorder to make the bacteria consume more phosphates why can't we introduce nitrates in very small amount in the tank.. Like potassium or sodium nitrates..
Like if I raise my nitrates to 10 and then see if the bacteria is able to fix the remaining phosphates..

Please let me know your views on the same..

[HighlandReefer]

Personally, I would use GFO to reduce the phosphate down to an undetectable reading if your nitrate is undetectable as well. At that point, perhaps carbon dosing can maintain phosphate after that. If not, you will need to run GFO. It will depend on the amount of food phosphate you add to your tank. ;)

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

We know that bacteria is proven to fix nitrate faster than phosphates in the ratio of 10:1 to 30:1 depending upon the strains( forgive me if I am wrong).


The ratio of nitrate used can be far higher for growth in anaerobic/hypoxic areas where nitrate can be used as a source of oxygen and not just as a source of nitrogen. Excess nitrogen can be released as N2.

IMO, that is why organic carbon dosing usually leaves some phosphate behind, and why so many folks find other methods like GFO a good combination with organic carbon dosing of all sorts. :)

[abhishek@1985]

Ok.. will keep you updated on the progress..

Its about 1 week since I have started to use GFO in a reactor..

How long should I keep it theer before changing it..

[Randy Holmes-Farley]

I'd replace it in 1-2 weeks in your situation. :)

[abhishek@1985]

Ok will do so in a week's time.. However , do you feel 50 gms is enough for my tank of 25 gals.. I have now used 100 gms but I feel its a lot..

[sabbath]

I wonder if we put rubble rock in a media reactor if it would work like a zeolite media. We could mix it once a day...? This way It might give the bacteria from the Vinager a place to do it's thing. Then rotate it out with clean rock every 6 weeks while giving the spent rock
a acid bath.

[sabbath]

Not tring to hijack...Maybe this is not the place. I will start new thread about reactor.

[Genetics]

Cliff, Randy..
So inorder to make the bacteria consume more phosphates why can't we introduce nitrates in very small amount in the tank.. Like potassium or sodium nitrates..
Like if I raise my nitrates to 10 and then see if the bacteria is able to fix the remaining phosphates..

Please let me know your views on the same..

This has been discussed in the past. The problem is people usually end of over adding nitrates back into the aquarium causing more harm that benefit. How is the TDS of your RO unit?

[abhishek@1985]

TDS i suppose is 0 as I am using packaged RO water from Kinley...

[Genetics]

TDS i suppose is 0 as I am using packaged RO water from Kinley...

What is Kinley? I used to buy RO until I bought a $20 TDS meter and realized my DI unit on the fridge had a lower score.

[abhishek@1985]

Well guys, have got an update but its certainly not a good one..

Have done 3 20% WC in a week with regular siphon of the algae for the past 7 days..

Updates :-

1. Thread like brown algae is almost gone.
2. Have replaced the GFO after using for 10 days.
3. No Nitrates and phosphates measured with API and Salifert...
4. The bad news is :- The tank is getting covered with brown dust like substance. Will try and post the pics. It appears much strongly and vigorously after each water change and after everyday photoperiod.

It much less in the morning but gets too worse after 10 hours of photoperiod.

Its covering the rocks and the substrate and the tank walls.

No adverse effect noticed on corals.

Upon much study for 2 days have came up this link :-

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?threadid=1620464

It seems exactly it matches my condition!!! Yes, its the worst nightmare .. Dinoflagellates..

Even have found 2 dead snails in the tank yesterday which confirms it on my part..

So according to the article and even Julian Sprung's book..

The way to erradicate Dinos is not to do watrer change.. Its much different from what we believe in..

But this article shows the reason.

However, I want an expert opinion from Cliff or Randy on this :-

1. The article says that if you increase the nitrates to a point of 2-3 ppm, the bacteria inside the dinos start to multiply to a point where it makes the dinoflagellate explode and so it kills it.

It now makes sense why Julian refers not to do a water change...To raise the nitrates ..

However, I am not too sure in this aspect so want an expert opinion from Cliff or Randy!!!

2. The article states that dinos use trace elements for them to survive. So by stopping water change you are basically making them to starve and die of trace elements..

I guess I would start with a 3-day light off period followed by no water change for atleast a month..Maybe introduce a couple of fishes more to raise the nitrates..

Randy, Cliff.. If dinos are bacteria can't we not restrict them by adding zeobac or mb7 which introduces beneficial bacteria and make the dino bacteria compete for food....

[HighlandReefer]

Other hobbyists have posted claims that water changes increased their dino problem. It could be that some of the micro-nutrients found in salt mixes like iron add to the problem.


"Randy, Cliff.. If dinos are bacteria can't we not restrict them by adding zeobac or mb7 which introduces beneficial bacteria and make the dino bacteria compete for food.... "

Dinos are not bacteria. ;)

However, there is a possibility that dosing bacterial supplements can help bacteria out-compete the dinos for nutrients.

[abhishek@1985]

So .. what is your best plan to start with the fight against the dinos?

Also please let me know if my sps would die if I do go for a 3-day light out...

[HighlandReefer]

You should be implementing all the different things one can do to reduce nutrients available to the dinos. Dinos produce some nasty toxins, so running GAC and changing it often is important. I can't stress the need to keep the dinos out of your tank, to allow other friendly organisms to take over. ;)

1) Wet skimming with a good quality skimmer. Clean your skimmer cup at least once per week.

2) Reduce your nitrates and phosphates to a zero reading using the hobby grade test kits. See Randy's articles regarding this:

Phosphate and the Reef Aquarium
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2006-09/rhf/index.php

Nitrate in the Reef Aquarium
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/issues/august2003/chem.htm

3) Proper lighting. I find that the higher wavelength bulbs are less conducive to algae growth. I now run 20,000 K bulbs from using 10,000 K bulbs.

4) Proper day length is a good thing also. I would not run your lights for more than 12 hrs total. Keep in mind that light entering from a window nearby is added to this figure.

5) Running GAC is a good practice in my book. It will help reduce the total dissolved organic carbons in your tank water and this is a food source.

6) Proper 30% per month total water changes will help export the DOC as well as some of the pests in the water column. It will help maintain the micro-nutrients as well.

7) Physical removal of the pest by hand, scrubbing and siphoning is important as well. If the amount of pest in your aquarium is overwhelming, perhaps dealing with one section at a time is a better idea.

8) Proper water circulation in your tank to prevent dead zones. When dealing with cyanobacteria pests increasing the flow where it grows seems to help.

9) Use RODI water for all top-off, salt mixing, additive mixes... etc.

10) Dosing iron may have benefits for macro-algae, but if you are experiencing algae pest problems than I would stop dosing it as it can add to the problem in many cases.

11) If you are dosing other supplements such as vitamins, amino acids, or others that contain a mix of supplements other than the basic alk., calcium and magnesium, I would stop these until you gain control of your pest. This includes many of the store bought products with unknown ingredients. Dosing Vodka or sugar to reduce your nitrates and phosphates would be an exception in my opinion.

12) Proper feeding habits. This can be the number one problem when trying to reduce your nitrate and phosphate levels. Use low phosphate fish foods.

13) IMHO, lighted refugiums may be a problem when trying to deal with an algae type pest problem. They are wonderful when it comes to reducing nitrates and phosphates. However, the light over most refugiums is conducive to the microalgae type pests. If the refugium becomes infested with a microalgae pest, I would clean it throughly of all pests as best as possible, remove the macro and turn off the lights until you gain control of your pest. Re-using the same macroalgae later may serve as a source for re-infestation of your pest.

14) Adding fish and other creatures that will eat your algae pest will help.

15) Running a diatom filter which has been suggested by Boomer, makes a lot of sense to me. It will help remove a lot of organic material in your water column.

16) For some additional thoughts regarding switching an algae based system to a bacterial based system see this thread:
(Using a carbon source with appropriate bacterial dosing may possibly help to push your system to where you want it although this is controversial.)

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1781320

17) There are other items that can be added to this list if others care too share and some of the items listed may be disputed.
____________________________________________

[abhishek@1985]

Cliff.. have followed all your rules and have reached 0 nitrates ( Salifert and API) and 0 phosphates( 0 on Salifert using two different batch).

Have done a couple of days of light out with heavy wet skimming and filter sock changing..

Coupled with heavy brushing..

Today I have switched on the lights for 4 hours .. It looks like a new tank with no speck of dinos..
Am sure they will come back... Will update on he progress..

[HighlandReefer]

:thumbsup:

If they come back, jump on them and scrub and siphon them out. ;)

[abhishek@1985]

Cliff, its 3 days now and the dinos haven't returned yet..
Have been scrubbing day and night if I find a single speck of algae ..
The filter socks have been of great help and are thoroughly cleaned everyday..
The lights are now on for 5 hours a day ony... Do you think it should harm my sps a lot or should I slowly increase the time to 7 hours..

[Aquarist007]

Cliff, its 3 days now and the dinos haven't returned yet..
Have been scrubbing day and night if I find a single speck of algae ..
The filter socks have been of great help and are thoroughly cleaned everyday..
The lights are now on for 5 hours a day ony... Do you think it should harm my sps a lot or should I slowly increase the time to 7 hours..

just read through this thread--alot of great information and reads like a science experiment:thumbsup:

Increasing your lights would depend on how much light you are getting from other sources such as windows. I find I have to cut back in the summer here in Canada as I will start to get nuisance algae on the glass that I do not normally get even with carbon dosing.

[HighlandReefer]

Cliff, its 3 days now and the dinos haven't returned yet..
Have been scrubbing day and night if I find a single speck of algae ..
The filter socks have been of great help and are thoroughly cleaned everyday..
The lights are now on for 5 hours a day ony... Do you think it should harm my sps a lot or should I slowly increase the time to 7 hours..

I agree with the remarks made by the Capn. :)

In nature you do get daily flucutations in the amount of light from cloud cover. It would not hurt to increase your lighting back to nomral over a period of time. Watch for any increases in growth of your pest. If it starts growing you could cut back at the point and see how it goes. ;)

[abhishek@1985]

Cliff.. can't thank you much enough for all the support you people have provided me through this frustrating phase..

Well the good news is that the dinos haven't been back for 4-5 days.

Also your suggestion of aggressive GFO and GAC worked great. And the filter sock idea was the best.. Everyday now I clean the sock atleast 2-3 times and have seen tremendous improvement in my corals.

The birdsnest which was not doing so well has all its polyps wide open for the first time since buying it 2 weeks back..

Things are looking better in my tank.

[sahin]

Please do update in another week or two and let us know how things are doing. That will provide good confirmation that this worked. It may help others. Thanks.

[abhishek@1985]

Sure.. will continue with the updates of anyhting going wrong in the tank or not..