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View Full Version : Is a sump the only way to go??


Fish Dad
06/07/2011, 11:17 PM
Ok what is the best setup a 55 gal (seems to be a lot of debate)…:debi:

I bought a 55 gallon tank and it came with a CPR Overflow and a ProClear Wet Dry system. I was also planning on running a Fulval 405 Canister filter which also came with it.
Now after reading information in the forums I’ve found that the canister is just a bad idea? Is there no use for these things in a salt water tank?

Further reading I’m learning that my Wet Dry isn’t much better as the Nitrate problem will still occur. :headwallblue:
So what is it a Sump or nothing?

Nothing set up yet so now the time to get it right.

pmrossetti
06/07/2011, 11:40 PM
is a sump the only way? no

Don't really need one on that size tank.

on a 55g all you need is live rock, a hang on the back skimmer, power heads and some sort of filter for carbon, gfo, or whatever. you could use the Fluval for that.
I prefer Aquaclear filters because they're easier to use and won't leak and drain your tank.

and away you go.

peppie
06/08/2011, 12:00 AM
There are many ways to set up a reef tank. Do you need a sump? No. Will it add stability to your system? Yes. Is there more chance for a flood with a sump? Yes. Can you have a healthy reef without a sump? Yes. This can go on an on an on. It is all up to you. What do you want?
If it were me setting up a new tank I would drill the DT and add the largest sump I could fit in my stand.

Pumped
06/08/2011, 12:49 AM
I had a 75 without sump with 0 nitrate. My filtration consisted of live rock and sugar fine sand, roughly 3" That was all I needed when I first started up.

Later when I got a sump I realized how much better it was. You can hide everything in there, and a great place to do water changes at or any thing else in it. It also give better aeration, and flow.

A sump that is setup right will not overflow.

A canister filter seems like a waste of energy...

bandr1002
06/08/2011, 01:24 AM
LR is going to be your primary filtration anyway, this is what i would do....
use the sump with out the bio balls. I would use it for the simple fact that you can, as stated already, hide all of your ugly equipment in it. the LR will act as a natrual biological filter to the system anyway. I would not use the fluval as they are horrible about nitrates. also don't go cheap on a skimmer when the time comes. and when i say cheap i mean do your research on the one you are interested in. I made the mistake of getting a cheap one and wound up spending more money just to replace the darn thing lol.

dzfish17
06/08/2011, 07:51 AM
^^^ all excellent advice. The only thing I can add is if you already own the canister filter you can use it for chemical filtration or for more flow. I use 2 canisters for flow only because I already had them before going to SW. +1 on a good skimmer.

artman18944
06/08/2011, 08:56 AM
i am now on my third reef tank and this is the first time i have used a sump and i wish had done it with my other tanks...sump gives you a great place to place all your equipment with makes your display look much nicer....water only evaporates from your sump so the display never looks low....adds extra water volume to help keep parameters stable....if setup properly floods are rare....so if i were you i would seriously consider using one

charleneatkins
06/08/2011, 01:18 PM
I came back into the hobby after a long hiatus and boy did things change!
I have found it depends in what you can afford at the time and what you are interested in looking at. My tanks currently run with the assistance of HOB filters and protein skimmers and have no problems. Eventually I would like the sump method just because of the clean look it gives the tank. SO, its up to you to make the decision. Stay with this forum and they will give you honest information and guidance. Don't always trust the advice from your LFS. Charlene

Dyzio545
06/08/2011, 01:21 PM
I run a fluval 405 with Carbon and GFO ONLY on my 55 gallon reef. I also have a temporary HOB skimmer. I'm going to get a 10 gallon sump soon and get rid of the fluval.

lazyrhino
06/08/2011, 01:35 PM
My 75 has been up for about a year now without a sump. I have 0 nitrates and have never had a problem maintaining water quality. It can certainly be done.

That said, I am getting together everything I need for a 40B sump right now and it will be up & running in the next month. It will make many things easier & give me the advantages of increased water volume but the real reason I'm adding one is to be able to move all my equipment into the sump so I don't have to look at it in my display tank. I've also always had issues with microbubbles with my HOB skimmer.

It can certainly be done either way but I'm switching for mostly aesthetic reasons. But then again, I obsess about the small details.

EllieSuz
06/08/2011, 02:02 PM
A sump is not the only way to go, but certainly the best way for a variety of reasons as mentioned by other responses. I started without one six years ago and upgraded pretty quickly when I learned their value. It's easier to install one now than change to it later.

Dyzio545
06/08/2011, 02:26 PM
My 75 has been up for about a year now without a sump. I have 0 nitrates and have never had a problem maintaining water quality. It can certainly be done.

That said, I am getting together everything I need for a 40B sump right now and it will be up & running in the next month. It will make many things easier & give me the advantages of increased water volume but the real reason I'm adding one is to be able to move all my equipment into the sump so I don't have to look at it in my display tank. I've also always had issues with microbubbles with my HOB skimmer.

It can certainly be done either way but I'm switching for mostly aesthetic reasons. But then again, I obsess about the small details.

Did you have any easy or hard to keep sps while being sumpless? This is a question that I had for a long time...Can you be sumpless and have sps success.

geccles
06/08/2011, 02:28 PM
My current tank does not have a sump.

My next tank & any after that definitely will have a sump. The tank looks so much nicer without all the equipment hanging in the back and a sump gives you many more options when it comes to equipment.

Fish Dad
06/08/2011, 05:08 PM
Thanks for all the info it’s greatly appreciated, -Since I have the time to get this setup I’ll lean towards the sump, just don’t tell my wife the canister and Pro Clear that came with my awesome deal are not going to be used

For sump size I was thinking of a 29 or 30 gal, but not sure either will fit the stand.
What better height or length?? 29 gallon 30 x 12 x 18 30 Gallon 36 x 12 x 16
Installing baffles doesn’t look to be very difficult and brand new 29 are all over CL.
Can’t measure inside of stand until I get home, but thinking I’ll be lucky to have 12” wide inside.
Also once in place , I’m won’t be able to remove the sump without draining the 55gal.
So how often do I need to do an entire tear down of the sump?

I also have a CPR Overflow which I will use to supply the sump
Need to figure out what to do with the ProClear Wet Dry system as I don’t think its big enough to be a sump.

WaterKeeper
06/08/2011, 05:28 PM
I've alway felt that a sump was a valuble addition to any tank as it:

Improves circulation
Adds water volume
Is a good place to hide unsightly equipment
Is a convienient place to do water changes

True you can run a tank without one but it sure a handy addition to any setup.

cloak
06/08/2011, 06:51 PM
Sump, no sump, it's in YOUR hands one way or the other...

Bedroomgangsta
06/08/2011, 07:02 PM
Dont just set aside the canister filter, get some tubing to adjust the length and run it under your sump into your sump and use it for a mix of carbon and gfo, its close to the same thing as a "reactor" and according to my wallet everything is useful! As for the HOB filter, if you ever need to sift the sand in the DT and you get a bit of a haze going on, throw that puppy up on the tank for an hour or so and let er rip! I make use of whatever I can and if it includes a bit of fabrication so be it!

walkerbrody
06/08/2011, 07:08 PM
I would use a 30 gallon for a sump. You can use the length more than the depth. Personaly I would have a 3 chamber sump with skimmer and incomming water from the overflow section on one side, return on the other and the largest possible fuge area in the middle.

duncantse
06/08/2011, 07:17 PM
Dont just set aside the canister filter, get some tubing to adjust the length and run it under your sump into your sump and use it for a mix of carbon and gfo, its close to the same thing as a "reactor" and according to my wallet everything is useful! As for the HOB filter, if you ever need to sift the sand in the DT and you get a bit of a haze going on, throw that puppy up on the tank for an hour or so and let er rip! I make use of whatever I can and if it includes a bit of fabrication so be it!

+1

Don't let that canister filter go to a waste. Run some LR rubble/Carbon/GFO in there.

MAVX
06/08/2011, 09:36 PM
+1

Don't let that canister filter go to a waste. Run some LR rubble/Carbon/GFO in there.

Makes me wish I hadn't sold my canister a year ago...

pentrix2
06/09/2011, 05:29 AM
I came back into the hobby after a long hiatus and boy did things change!
I have found it depends in what you can afford at the time and what you are interested in looking at. My tanks currently run with the assistance of HOB filters and protein skimmers and have no problems. Eventually I would like the sump method just because of the clean look it gives the tank. SO, its up to you to make the decision. Stay with this forum and they will give you honest information and guidance. Don't always trust the advice from your LFS. Charlene

+1 on "don't always trust the advice from your LFS." If anything, don't trust them at all. :debi:

Pen

RocketSurgeon
06/09/2011, 01:04 PM
I've alway felt that a sump was a valuble addition to any tank as it:

Improves circulation
Adds water volume
Is a good place to hide unsightly equipment
Is a convienient place to do water changes

True you can run a tank without one but it sure a handy addition to any setup.


Sound advice.

pnavarro170
06/09/2011, 02:06 PM
i have a 4 ft 120 sps tank. probably my 3rd or 4th main tank. Ive never had a sump in my life. just seems like its not necessary for me but i do see the advantages. All i have is the best hob skimmer i can get. and a large cpr refugium. and the tank is flourishing and i couldnt be happier. so simple.

RocketSurgeon
06/09/2011, 02:21 PM
i have a 4 ft 120 sps tank. probably my 3rd or 4th main tank. Ive never had a sump in my life. just seems like its not necessary for me but i do see the advantages. All i have is the best hob skimmer i can get. and a large cpr refugium. and the tank is flourishing and i couldnt be happier. so simple.

For $186, I just assume have a 30 gallon long tank underneath. Keep everything out of sight, out of mind.

http://www.amazon.com/CPR-AquaFuge-Hang-Refugium-Large/dp/B001EU3QBU

To each his own, I guess. Just another example of, "A sump is not required".

I would encourage newbies to have a sump. I believe the system would be more forgiving than a sumpless set up. After a couple years keeping a system, if one chooses to go sumpless, then by all means: Less is More. :-)

Paul B
06/09/2011, 02:55 PM
I have never had a sump and never will. But it will hide the equipment if you have any.
I don't use any equipment that would go in a sump so it would not do me any good. My DIY skimmer is hanging on the back of the tank so you don't see it and in the tank are 2 powerheads for circulation, they would not go in a sump anyway.

RocketSurgeon
06/09/2011, 03:20 PM
I have never had a sump and never will. But it will hide the equipment if you have any.
I don't use any equipment that would go in a sump so it would not do me any good. My DIY skimmer is hanging on the back of the tank so you don't see it and in the tank are 2 powerheads for circulation, they would not go in a sump anyway.

But Paul, you are in no way a newbie. Are you recommending against it?

Here are two negatives:
1 More cost (another tank, plumbing, water, return pump)
2 More space required.

Do you have specific reasons as to why a newbie should not utilize a sump?

WaterKeeper
06/10/2011, 11:31 AM
Paul plumbs his tank directly into Long Island Sound. Never needs a water change that way. ;)

mwilliams62
06/10/2011, 12:29 PM
I have a 55gal and I use to have a hob filter system and changed to a Eheim Canister Filter rated for up to 125gal so far all my corals and fish are growing. I would have done the sump thang but I was and still worried about it causing a flood in the apartment plus the noise if plumbing not done right and I am no plumber to know how to keep the pipes quite.

Paul B
06/10/2011, 02:19 PM
But Paul, you are in no way a newbie. Are you recommending against it?



I am not for or against a sump. The original question was if a sump was the only way to go. I believe a sump does nothing to benefit or detract from a tank, it is just extra water and a place to put stuff if you are using any.
But it is definately not the only way to go.

Paul plumbs his tank directly into Long Island Sound. Never needs a water change that way.



I changed 10 gallons from the Sound last week thank you very much. It's the only way to go. :wavehand:

dryad001
06/10/2011, 03:38 PM
I built my own sump for my 55, search my name and theres a thread on it in the DIY section.

beatle
06/10/2011, 07:24 PM
Like most people I started without a sump and later upgraded to a larger tank that included one. It was great. When I started up again a couple years later I attempted a setup without a sump again. This time it took a shorter amount of time before I upgraded again. A sump offers way too many advantages to not have one.

Fish Dad
06/11/2011, 09:32 AM
Looking at putting a 30 gallon tank under the 55 gal standard stand, any advise on clearance above the sump. Concerned about access to the protein skimmer and pump and what ever else I need to pull out.
30 gallon is 36 x 12 x 16 leaves me 7” of access between top of cabinet door and top of tank, another 4 to display tank bottom.
Thinking a 20 long is to shallow at only 12 “ deep?
I will also have to modify the stand as it 1" short for width, but thats simple, 2X4 bracing the back of the stand I can gain a couple inches. Once the 30 is in wont be able to come out with out a removal of the DT tear down???

Fish Dad
06/11/2011, 10:19 AM
Also found a 20 gal sump set up on CL, is that big enough???? asking $15 would run that and leave room under for a Aquaripure and still be able to run Canister when needed. 30 would leave no room under cabinate??

mcdonaldtj
06/11/2011, 10:55 AM
For People that like the minimized look in the display, the sump allows a place to put the live rock needed for filtration. I have done both and will always have a sump just because the in sump skimmers are better than the HOM iMHO.


V/Tim

WaterKeeper
06/14/2011, 01:57 PM
Fishdad;

With any sump clearance is important. One is alway needing to check and clean equipment in the sump and if you can't get your hands in (or the equipment out); tank maintenance becomes a real pain (decorum makes me refrain from stating where :) ).

There is no hard and fast rule so put you prospective sump in the area you wish to have it and see if you can live with the location. If not, op for something smaller.

mwilliams62
06/16/2011, 08:16 AM
I have been wanting to use a sump but have been reading to many threads that when the owner leave for a vacation or work only to come home to a flooded house with dead fish and corals...The last one I read was a 240 tank and the electricity had been cut off. So if you chose to go with a sump turn off your power and turn it back on and watch it to make sure that it want overflow.

ed102475
06/16/2011, 08:48 AM
There you have it , Paul B says " Not needed ":hammer: the verdict is in , Case closed . It makes me feel better I'm going with out a sump on my 120 this time .:thumbsup: Happy Reefing .
:fish2::fish1::fish2::fish1::fish2::fish1::fish2::fish1:

RocketSurgeon
06/16/2011, 09:07 AM
I am not for or against a sump. The original question was if a sump was the only way to go. I believe a sump does nothing to benefit or detract from a tank, it is just extra water and a place to put stuff if you are using any.
But it is definately not the only way to go.



I changed 10 gallons from the Sound last week thank you very much. It's the only way to go. :wavehand:

There you have it , Paul B says " Not needed ":hammer: the verdict is in , Case closed . It makes me feel better I'm going with out a sump on my 120 this time .:thumbsup: Happy Reefing .
...

And he also has his tank "plumbed into the Sound"...

Although I agree that a sump is not "REQUIRED", I do feel that it is an added benefit to beginners with tanks 75 gallons or less. The added water volume, plumbed correctly, would make water parameters more stable in my opinion.

Paul B
06/16/2011, 11:07 AM
Although I agree that a sump is not "REQUIRED", I do feel that it is an added benefit to beginners

True but the question was is a sump the "Only" way to go? It is not. But yes, better

WestChesterReef
06/16/2011, 11:27 AM
Not the only way, but I wouldn't do without one, my 70 has a 30 gallon sump, and my currant build is a 120 in wall with a 125 sump.