View Full Version : help me add water without raising my salinity
collie man
06/09/2011, 08:22 PM
I accidently left my ATO off all day and my salinity is at 1.024/5 on my calibrated refractometer. how can i add water so my sump level isnt so low without raising or lowering my salinity?
should i just add a half gallon of ro and a half gallon of salt? or add both as needed until i reach my level?
chuckdallas
06/09/2011, 08:31 PM
Just make up a batch of your salt water and check the salinity. You don't want to go from 1.024 to whatever you had (say, 1.028) in one move, so just add some 1.026 to make it 1.025 today then tomorrow add some 1.027 to make it 1.026, and so on until you get back to what you want. If you make a batch of salt water and it's 1.028 or 1.029 add more RO/DI until it's at 1.026 and conversely if you want to raise the salinity of the new batch.
tkeracer619
06/09/2011, 08:31 PM
your ATO doesn't supply salt. Salt doesn't evap. If your ATO was off all day just turn it back on.
As far as your salinity is concerned. It was lower then that to start with. It isn't a problem at all. The swing won't hurt anything.
If you want to keep it the same mix up a batch of 1.024 and top off with that.
EllieSuz
06/09/2011, 08:32 PM
If you add water that is exactly the same as your tank, the salinity will stay the same. However, 1.024/5 is still a little low. The ocean is a tad over 1.026, so you could leave it where it is or even raise it gradually.
Is this a trick question?
collie man
06/09/2011, 08:36 PM
well my salinity was a little low at 24 when it normally is at 25 or 26 rock steady. i was holding fish to drop of at a client yesterday. im pretty sure any salt at all will raise the salinity. but regardless i just dont want a swing at all if i can.
tkeracer619
06/09/2011, 08:37 PM
Many people keep reefs at 1.023/1.024. It has not been shown to cause any ill effects. I'll say it again. It is not a problem. Some of the most amazing tanks I have ever seen run that SG. I used to run mine for years at that level but recently started to slowly raise it to see if I could get better skimmer production.
collie man
06/09/2011, 08:38 PM
jcw no it isnt why do you say that? if i add ro the salinity will drop. on the other hand if i add salt water my salinity will rise. i simply need the water in my sump to be another inch higher so my ATO doesnt dump ro in.
Anemone
06/09/2011, 08:42 PM
jcw no it isnt why do you say that? if i add ro the salinity will drop. on the other hand if i add salt water my salinity will rise. i simply need the water in my sump to be another inch higher so my ATO doesnt dump ro in.
No, if you add saltwater at the same Specific Gravity as your current water, your salinity won't rise.
Kevin
collie man
06/09/2011, 08:49 PM
so then why does everyone top off with ro instead of saltwater. if you compensate for evaporation with saltwater wont it rise? only if it is at a high salinity?
tkeracer619
06/09/2011, 08:52 PM
because as water evaporates your salt goes UP. Your salinity went up. Adding water back will put it back how it was this morning. You already had a swing.
When you say you were holding fish for a client. Are you servicing other peoples tanks?
apuhl20
06/09/2011, 08:53 PM
salt water does not evaporate. the salt that you put in your tank is always in your tank. if you keep topping off with salt water you will slowly raise your salinity, because the salt is not evaporating. once you have the salinity where you want it you just top off with ro and it is just replacing the pure water that evaporated. by keeping the water level constant in your sump with your ro top off your salinity will stay the same.
disc1
06/09/2011, 08:57 PM
:lol2:Is this a trick question?:lol2:
If you add water at the same salinity then the salinity will stay the same. If you then let that evaporate down to the line, it will make the salinity go up. So topping off is done with RO because you are replacing evaporation. If you are just raising the level that the ATO keeps the sump at, then you use salt to get it to the new level and continue doing RO to top off. If you are replacing water that evaporated while the ATO was off, do RO.
What confuses me is how your salinity went down if the ATO was off. As water evaporates, salinity rises. It should be high in that case right? Or did I misunderstand the situation?
Anemone
06/09/2011, 09:02 PM
What confuses me is how your salinity went down if the ATO was off. As water evaporates, salinity rises. It should be high in that case right? Or did I misunderstand the situation?
Nope, you didn't misunderstand. The OP's salinity went up when the ATO was left off. To return to the previous salinity, simply turn the ATO back on.
:debi:
Kevin
noahm
06/09/2011, 09:05 PM
In your case you are wanting to add water and maintain salinity. Think of it this way. If you had 100 gal of 1.024 and you added it to yours, you would just have more 1.024, so you just need to make a batch of 1.024 and add until it is full. You are correct in saying that straight RO would lower salinity. Adding 1.026 or higher would slightly raise it in a small tank, but adding exactly the same salinity water will keep it exactly the same.
As apuhl20 stated, during normal top-off, the RO just maintains the salinity that keeps trying to rise due to evap. It is only during this special case when you need to raise the water level, but maintain salinity that you add water of the same salinity.
collie man
06/09/2011, 10:34 PM
yes i do. i recently found RC. and ya my tank is small so adding salt makes my salinity rise. i was just looking for a quick answer. i also know that salt does not evaporate. i just know if i add a gallon of saltwater to my tank my salinity will go up thats all im trying to avoid. and yes i know i had a swing because the water evaporated and salt does not evaporate. thanks for the help ill stick to the SPS forum lol
Anemone
06/09/2011, 11:06 PM
thanks for the help ill stick to the SPS forum lol
You'll get the same answer there.
Kevin
Madjamey
06/09/2011, 11:31 PM
This thread made my head hurt ! It's simple , for example , if you keep you Salinity @ 1.025 and you don't top off for one day , add a little RO/DI until you reach your origanal 1.025.
Well the op won't be servicing my tank if this was difficult situation for them. Man that was painful :hmm3:
pmrossetti
06/09/2011, 11:52 PM
whew, can't wait to follow this on the sps forum. :strange:
collie man
06/10/2011, 08:12 AM
you guys are great!
NoahM-thank you for the straight forward answer without the [profanity].
Bilk- you dont even know me how can you say things like that? it was a simple question deserving a simple answer.
Just so everyone knows i added a gallon of salt at 1.024 to my tank at 1.024 and my new salinity is at 1.025/6... thanks again for the help, espeacially you noahm.
you guys are great!
NoahM-thank you for the straight forward answer without the [profanity].
Bilk- you dont even know me how can you say things like that? it was a simple question deserving a simple answer.
Just so everyone knows i added a gallon of salt at 1.024 to my tank at 1.024 and my new salinity is at 1.025/6... thanks again for the help, espeacially you noahm.
What did you use to measure the salinity? Hmmm?
I'm sorry if you took offense collie, but this is a basic chore in maintaining a saltwater system. It's one of the first things one needs to understand in keeping FOWLR and reef aquariums and you stated that you do tank maintenance for others.
I also don't understand how your SG would rise if you used the same concentration of water at the same temp the tank is running. But I don't want to offend you further. I'm sure you have a good grasp of things and this was just an anomaly. Really. I'm sorry.
Palting
06/10/2011, 09:14 AM
Just so everyone knows i added a gallon of salt at 1.024 to my tank at 1.024 and my new salinity is at 1.025/6... thanks again for the help, espeacially you noahm.
Can someone explain this to me? Add 1.024 saltwater to a 1.024 tank, and you get 1.025/6?? New math? :)
Useful_Idiot
06/10/2011, 11:17 AM
If the new salt water he was adding hadn't fully dissolved it would read low then fully dissolve in the tank increasing salinity.
disc1
06/10/2011, 11:20 AM
Surely someone who maintains tanks for a living would dissolve the salt all the way. Then again until yesterday I thought surely someone who maintains tanks for a living would understand how salinity works.
If the new salt water he was adding hadn't fully dissolved it would read low then fully dissolve in the tank increasing salinity.
That and the use of a swing arm hydrometer or refractometer and not accounting for temperature during mixing.
collie man
06/10/2011, 11:49 AM
i did re calibrate my refractometer before doing the addition. Bilk thank you for the clarification and i did not take any offense. some people on this site seem take offense very quickly but im not one of those. i was just looking for a simple answer and i got it. and as for disc1, your subtle rudeness is noted, thanks that little quip. i truly did learn a few new things...especially about my fellow members lol.
i guess i had a brain fart and thought adding salt to compensate for my evaporation would increase my salinity but i guess i was wrong. thanks for the help everyone ill post some pics of the tanks i service so youll understand im not a total dimwit....just lose my marbles every once and a while.
thanks again, especially Bilk for being a cool person
collie man
06/10/2011, 11:50 AM
oh and noahm thanks as well
Anemone
06/10/2011, 12:46 PM
just lose my marbles every once and a while.
As do we all.
Kevin
i guess i had a brain fart and thought adding salt to compensate for my evaporation would increase my salinity but i guess i was wrong. thanks for the help everyone ill post some pics of the tanks i service so youll understand im not a total dimwit....just lose my marbles every once and a while.
It happens to everyone sometime. :)
We (I) just make fun to make ourselves feel better about... ourselves(?). :spin2:
MattAndKim
06/10/2011, 02:42 PM
i guess i had a brain fart and thought adding salt to compensate for my evaporation would increase my salinity but i guess i was wrong.
Adding salt to a system will increase the salinity for a given water mass. Top off with pure water. Adding water of the same salinity will not change the salinity for an increased mass of water, but once the system evaporates down to the old level, salinity will increase. This thread is hilarious.
disc1
06/10/2011, 02:49 PM
The original post said that the ATO went off and salinity went DOWN. That's not probable. It doesn't work that way which caused confusion. We tried our best to say if the level is low but the salinity is high use RO. That's the normal. But we were stumbling over the fact that you said the salinity was also low.
If you add water that matches you salinity, the salinity won't rise until that water evaporates. That's physics. That's also reefkeeping 101. Your refulsal to accept that fact led me to believe you were joking, given your position. So I cracked one back. Sorry if I offended you.
tkeracer619
06/10/2011, 08:42 PM
I hope you don't take offense but you need to seriously reconsider maintaining other peoples tanks. I cannot fathom anyone getting paid to take care of a saltwater tank who does not understand one of the most basic chemistry aspects of marine tanks. I understand what is involved and can confidently say you need more experience. I am not trying to be harsh just calling it how I see it.
I would be furious if I was a customer of yours and I ran across this thread.
I seriously hope you have business insurance so if you get sued it doesn't end up costing you a house.
Maivortex
06/10/2011, 08:52 PM
Mod , please move this thread. It should be in "advanced topics"
sassyfrassy
06/10/2011, 10:12 PM
Am I missing something? I don't have an ATO - I lose about 3g to evaporation a day - and add back fresh water (from RODI) to bring back to the line in sump. What I actually measure is SG, which doesn't fluctuate much at all.
disc1
06/10/2011, 10:45 PM
Am I missing something? I don't have an ATO - I lose about 3g to evaporation a day - and add back fresh water (from RODI) to bring back to the line in sump. What I actually measure is SG, which doesn't fluctuate much at all.
You're not missing anything. You're doing right. This was a very confused thread. If you wanted to move the line on the sump up higher for some reason, you would add up to it with salt water the first time, then go back to what you are doing now.
alienbob113
06/11/2011, 12:14 AM
mod , please move this thread. It should be in "advanced topics"
<3
Randy Holmes-Farley
06/11/2011, 09:03 AM
I agree that this is one of the most confused threads I've seen recently. Too many unclear statements and answers, people responding but not clear to which question, questions asked in ways that may reveal a lack of understanding of salinity implying they should not just be answered without digging deeper...
A simple issue made clear as mud. :(
That said, do folks with questions feel they have what they need?
Palting
06/11/2011, 09:35 AM
Well, it was/is entertaining :D.
psychadelicdrea
07/15/2011, 01:35 AM
lol oh come on...don't pick on the guy? isn't this site for teaching..not slamming...heh
His skimmer remove a certain amount of salt water and his salinity dropped. Could this be it?
disc1
07/15/2011, 07:25 AM
His skimmer remove a certain amount of salt water and his salinity dropped. Could this be it?
You didn't read the whole thread did you?
mjwz06
07/15/2011, 08:41 AM
My head hurts after reading all this.
That said, I'm following this trainwreck to see where it ends up!
disc1
07/15/2011, 09:44 AM
This train wrecked a month ago and we all walked away.
SaltwaterAdict
07/15/2011, 10:06 AM
i did re calibrate my refractometer before doing the addition. Bilk thank you for the clarification and i did not take any offense. some people on this site seem take offense very quickly but im not one of those. i was just looking for a simple answer and i got it. and as for disc1, your subtle rudeness is noted, thanks that little quip. i truly did learn a few new things...especially about my fellow members lol.
i guess i had a brain fart and thought adding salt to compensate for my evaporation would increase my salinity but i guess i was wrong. thanks for the help everyone ill post some pics of the tanks i service so youll understand im not a total dimwit....just lose my marbles every once and a while.
thanks again, especially Bilk for being a cool person
Your funny, tell me you're kidding when you say you maintain a service tank!! :eek1:
Salinity is something very basic in saltwater keeping..
If you understand saltwater stays in solution then all you would need to do is add RO water to make up for the evaporation just like an ATO would do.
Anyway, you seem like a very stand up guy who doesn't take offense easily! ;)
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