Beginner seahorse for a 10 gallon

[asid61]

Could I keep 5 dwarf seahorses in a heavily planted 10 gallon with ~18 lbs live rock? I have 1 sargassum 5" tall, 1 medium sea lettuce, 1 tennis ball-sized chaeto, and 4 5-6" gracilaria (One is right next to the protein skimmer and wall of the tank). I have maintained a saltwater tank at school for a few months without any help ("Do what you want with it" my teacher said). I am running a fluval 104 with carbon, rated for 25 gallons. I have a glass heater;
temperature is 74 F. I have a 1 inch sandbed.
Currently not carbon dosing or using any other additives.
Ammonia=0, nitrite=0, nitrate=10.

Sorry for the long post, I always end up not giving enough info.

[rayjay]

I would probably keep 40 to 50 in a ten gallon tank myself. You would have a hard time seeing just 5 in that size of tank.
Even with 18 dwarfs in my 5 gallon, it's hard to find them. It would also be problematic for the high density feeding needed as you need to have enough density to provide sufficient food passing by where ever they hitch in the tank. Most of them won't hunt the food down but rather snick up something passing by them.
You need the same density pretty well for 5 as for 50.
You have to be prepared for a lot of daily cleaning as you need to remove uneaten food after each feeding.
To feed, you need to decap and hatch brine shrimp cysts and then grow out the nauplii for a day so they develop their digestive system, and then enrich them in two 12 hour stages with new water and new food for each of the two stages, preferably using Dan's Food for the enrichment process.
Removal of food after feeding is to prevent them from later feeding on brine shrimp that have lost their enrichment and are not capable of providing near as much nutrient for the seahorses.
You need to turn off the filter while feeding, and even after feeding you need to protect the intake of the filter so that the dwarfs cannot be sucked against the intake.
I don't use a heater in mine and temperature until summer usually runs 69° to 70°, but in summer I need a fan blowing on the tank to maintain 74° or lower, or, turn on the A/C when my larger seahorse tanks start to warm up too much.
You have no need of carbon dosing, nor any additives at all as frequent partial water changes provide anything needed.
You need to remember also that whoever is fish sitting while you are away, are capable of maintaining the hatching, enrichment, and feeding of the live brine to your seahorses, and then following up with proper husbandry.
Don't let them go more than a day a week without feeding.
Are there any tankmates in this tank or have their been any livestock that may have left behind pathogens that may be detrimental to your proposed seahorses?

[asid61]

Well, it's a used tank, but it's been dry for awhile and I washed it out before using it. I make about $20 a week through babysitting, so I can feed them with money left over, but I can't afford more than 8, and that's stretching it.
I thought I could just hatch the brine over a 24-hour period, then feed them to the seahorses. They take 18-24 hours to hatch, right?

[rayjay]

I'd suggest buying a 2 1/2 gallon tank,setting it up separate and working with that as it will provide plenty of room for 5 dwarfs. Cost of replacement salt water used for water changes would be a lot less as well.
For brine shrimp cysts, hatchout is dependent mostly on temperature, but can be affected by other things sometimes. Room temperature means longer hatch times.
Occasionally I have, like right now, find that a can of cysts takes longer to hatchout even at 82°. These ones I have at the moment take almost 2 days.
Now, it's recommended that you decap the cysts before you hatch them out.
Not doing so will increase the likelihood of getting hydroids in the tank.
If you don't enrich the bbs then chances are they won't live as long, and dwarfs typically live an average of about 1 1/2 yrs give or take a bit.
When you don't know how old they are when buying wildcaught, you don't know just how much longer you will have them anyway.
The best source of enrichment is Dan's Food from seahorsesource.com and, they sell captive bred seahorses as well, including the dwarf H. zosterae.
Seahorses aren't the best fish to keep as they often require medications/treatments that someone on a tight budget may not be able to afford.
I typically only hatch brine about once a week or every 10 days as they can eat larger than newborn.
I decap, hatch, enrich and feed, but all the excess I place in a growout container where I feed them on blended spirulina powder or greenwater for as long as there are any there, removing sufficient each day to enrich for the next days feedings.

[asid61]

Are enriched brine the only way to go? Can I feed them tigger pods and arctic pods instead, with enriched BBS every week?
And unfortunately, I can't order fish online because my mom thinks it's cruel. :sad2:
How much brine would I need? Could I use your system and hatch out brine once a week, or as often as one hatchery can do? I can them store the brine in a 1 gallon bottle and give them phyto-feast and the enrichment from seahorsesource.com.
Thank you!

[TwistedNerve]

If you bought your horses from a breeder online the horses go through less hands than a horse that you purchase in a store. I got my dwarves from seahorsesource and they arrived in excellent shape. One of the males actually gave birth en route. I'm not sure that arctic pods would be a good food source as they are dead/preserved. The tigger pods may work.

[rayjay]

Tell your Mom that the fish get to the fish store the same way the seahorses are shipped to you from an online supplier like seahorse.org.
If you buy wildcaught they should by rights be dewormed using a 3 drug treatment encompassing a 9 week period.
I believe tigger pods attach to dwarfs and irritate them, but I don't know about Arcti-Pods. However, with the densities you need, you probably can't afford them.
They might make a good supplemental food in addition to enriched brine shrimp.
Maybe Tim will see this post and help out as he knows a lot more about the dwarfs than I do (and more than most others)
Yes you can hatch maybe once a week and store them in a gallon jar.
Feed them on spirulina powder though as it's cheap from Brine Shrimp Direct. You put it in water in a blender and blend for two minutes. Store in the refrigerator.
Dan's Food also needs to be blended but don't use it as a food, just as an enrichment which can be done simplest in an inverted pop (soda) bottle with an open air line tube.

[timinnl]

May I ask how old you are? If you cannot order online where are they coming from? Ray is giving you some very good advice. May I suggest that you save a bit longer and buy CB ones?

I sell mine by referral. I normally have them set up a ghost tank for a couple of months. During that time I ask them to hatch, feed and enriched the artemia. I want them to see and realize how much work is involve. Around 40% of the people decided against owning them.

I think that is what you should do now. There is no way or any short cut that I know of around this fact.

It is almost midnight my time. I will go into more details in the morning.

Kind Regards,

Tim

[Anthony.Luciano]

wait, was that a joke? or can you seriously keep 50 dwarf seahorses in a 10 gallon?
I would probably keep 40 to 50 in a ten gallon tank myself. You would have a hard time seeing just 5 in that size of tank.
Even with 18 dwarfs in my 5 gallon, it's hard to find them. It would also be problematic for the high density feeding needed as you need to have enough density to provide sufficient food passing by where ever they hitch in the tank. Most of them won't hunt the food down but rather snick up something passing by them.
You need the same density pretty well for 5 as for 50.
You have to be prepared for a lot of daily cleaning as you need to remove uneaten food after each feeding.
To feed, you need to decap and hatch brine shrimp cysts and then grow out the nauplii for a day so they develop their digestive system, and then enrich them in two 12 hour stages with new water and new food for each of the two stages, preferably using Dan's Food for the enrichment process.
Removal of food after feeding is to prevent them from later feeding on brine shrimp that have lost their enrichment and are not capable of providing near as much nutrient for the seahorses.
You need to turn off the filter while feeding, and even after feeding you need to protect the intake of the filter so that the dwarfs cannot be sucked against the intake.
I don't use a heater in mine and temperature until summer usually runs 69° to 70°, but in summer I need a fan blowing on the tank to maintain 74° or lower, or, turn on the A/C when my larger seahorse tanks start to warm up too much.
You have no need of carbon dosing, nor any additives at all as frequent partial water changes provide anything needed.
You need to remember also that whoever is fish sitting while you are away, are capable of maintaining the hatching, enrichment, and feeding of the live brine to your seahorses, and then following up with proper husbandry.
Don't let them go more than a day a week without feeding.
Are there any tankmates in this tank or have their been any livestock that may have left behind pathogens that may be detrimental to your proposed seahorses?

[asid61]

I'm in middle school. I told my mom that it's better to order online from seahorsesource, because they breed them and ship them, but I had a bad experience shipping mysid before. She probably thinks the seahorses will eat each other or something.

[rayjay]

A.J., why do you think it's a joke to keep 40 or 50 dwarfs in a 10g tank?

[TwistedNerve]

Shipping seahorses is different than shipping live mysis shrimp. Usually you can ship mysis 2 day though I wouldn't do it. I've always had my mysis shipped overnight. No seahorses don't eat each other or their fry. If you could encourage your parents to do research on seahorses with you it would probably help dispell any concerns that they may have. If you can, get the info and show them so that way when they have free time to look over the info you get.

[namxas]

asid61,

you have PM

[Anthony.Luciano]

no sorry it was just my first reaction like 40 or 50 of anything in a 10 gallon then i thought about it a little more and realized how small they really are
A.J., why do you think it's a joke to keep 40 or 50 dwarfs in a 10g tank?

[TwistedNerve]

They are pretty small. My first group that I got a year ago I was really excited about. My husband thought I was completely bonkers:crazy1: staring at an "empty" tank oohing and aahing over nothing. He finally realized that I had dwarf seahorses in there.

[asid61]

Well, my LFS doesn't get seahorses, but they do have some black and yellow banded pipefish. I also keep a 29 gal at school, so seeing that I can't afford to buy 40-50 seahorses, I might wait a few months until school starts and put 1-2 pipefish in the school tank. Is that all right?

[timinnl]

Ok! Are you on the up & up or are you having a little fun with everyone? May I suggest that your mother sits next to you while you are on here. She can join in and ask more detailed questions.

You don't need to buy 40 or 50 of them. Start off with around 3 pairs or better yet save a little bit more and buy about 5 pairs.

One thing you need to learn is to have a little Patient in this hobby. Rushing into things is not a good way of starting out.

[asid61]

One thing you need to learn is to have a little Patient in this hobby. Rushing into things is not a good way of starting out.
You're right. Maybe I'll wait a few months until I can tell my mom, "Mom, I have plenty of experience, the LFS doesn't acclimate as well as I do, And I have 2 brine shrimp hatcheries and a BS raising jar. Can I keep some dwarves at home?"