Parents don't like seahorses

[asid61]

I need a list of reasons why dwarf seahorses are hard. Is it just because of their feeding requirements and water quality issues? My parents heard from a friend that seahorses are difficult, and I can't seem to convince them it's just because of the time it takes to feed them and the fact they aren't very understanding about water quality.
Thank you!

[Willster]

not only are they hard to feed, they're also not always good shippers. however, if you have a tank of the right size, a refugium (to keep alot of pods for them to eat) and stay on top of water, sea horses can be a great pet. they are also very shy, and you need to watch what you put in the tank with them. I would do a lot of reading before you just jump into getting a sea horse or group because "they look cool"

[asid61]

Well, shipping doesn't matter, as my parents will only let me buy locally at the LFSs. :sad1: :)
Thanks!

[AlexS95]

How do they think they end up at the LFS? lol

[SaylorsReef]

Seahorses actually ship very well if packaged correctly and over night shipping is used. I've shipped them without issue.

If it were me I would by captive bred and have them shipped to me before I would buy them from the LFS.

Dwarf seahorses do well with brine shrimp. You will have to hatch your own. Take some time to learn the requirements, then checkout www.seahorsesource.com.

[asid61]

How do they think they end up at the LFS? lol

They get shipped there. I told my mom that it's better to buy online, because your buying from the source, but she doesn't understand.

[Kay Tickle]

Seahorses actually ship very well if packaged correctly and over night shipping is used. I've shipped them without issue.

If it were me I would by captive bred and have them shipped to me before I would buy them from the LFS.

Dwarf seahorses do well with brine shrimp. You will have to hatch your own. Take some time to learn the requirements, then checkout www.seahorsesource.com.

+1, +1 and +++++1

Wouldn't buy from anywhere else!

Things that make them harder: lots of food, so lots of cleanup. I couldn't imagine my tank without a skimmer. Good water quality and lower temperatures (this has been argued, but I agree with keeping the water colder to prevent bacterial infections). Raising fry would be a challenge. If that's an issue, a same-sex pair is ideal. However, not sure how that works with dwarves since you usually keep a lot in one tank.

They are definitely worth the effort!

[TwistedNerve]

I would not by seahorses from my LFS. They don't even know what species that they get in on occasion let alone even know if they are trained to eat frozen. At least when you order from the breeders, you'll be guaranteed a true captive bred horse that is eating frozen. Dan and Abby are great folks to talk to about any questions or concerns that you or your parents may have about keeping seahorses. I spent nearly a year researching info about seahorses before I finally got a tank set up and ordered from them.

[rayjay]

Seahorse keeping in not always a difficult task as some people just seem to luck in and have no problems.
However, I've been reefing for going on 18 years now and I find that seahorse keeping is definitely more challenging and more work.
I have been able to raise and sell H. reidi seahorses but at the moment, none of my seahorses are producing fry and I've not been able to find anyone with fry to spare for me.
Don't count on automatically being able to do everything right the first or even second time and expect some losses, and that's if you do everything keeping in mind the recommendations to give your seahorses the best chance of surviving.
I've had less trouble with my dwarfs than the standard seahorses but I haven't had them all that long yet and still I lost 2 of the 20 I started with.
They are definitely more work than standard seahorses gallon for gallon and some find that their short life span is a big turn off.

[namxas]

I heartily recommend larger species SH (erectus or reidi) for first-timers. However, since the question was asked, this list is for zots only:

Pros

Can be kept in smaller setups.
Fry can be raised in the same tank as parents.
They're cute.

Cons

"Sterile" setups are best, esp. for noobs. The reason is that hydroid outbreaks can kill zots (they can be stung to death), and 'droid outbreaks are common when lots of small. live food is present in a system.

Zots need live food every day, period. This means either BBS, enriched older Artemia, or copepods. This also means that you need to hatch out BBS at least once a day.

Zots are lazy little SH (they spend most of their time hitched waiting for food to swim by) and you need a fair amount of them (say at least 20) in a 10 gal to really be able to see anything in the tank.

Having fewer zots doesn't necessarily mean you feed less, as there needs to be a certain "food density" for them to get enuff food swimming by them.

If you go on vacation, you need to have someone trained to feed your zots, which means that you either provide bottles of live pods for them, or your sitter must know how to hatch BBS and feed them out. There are no short-cuts to feeding these fish (such as those "hatch-n-feed" BBS hatcheries), and you can't just dump Artemia cysts into the tank.

IMHO/IME, larger species SH from a breeder like SH Source is the best way to go if you're a SH novice, but even if you get zots, get them from Dan & Abby. If you get your SH from the LFS, your experience will likely be negative and short-lived.

Just want you to go into this with your eyes open...

[asid61]

IMHO/IME, larger species SH from a breeder like SH Source is the best way to go if you're a SH novice, but even if you get zots, get them from Dan & Abby. If you get your SH from the LFS, your experience will likely be negative and short-lived.

My mom is adamant about shipping. She thinks it's cruel because they are in bags for almost 24 hours. Once, she let up so I could order some fish, but the shipping was delayed for a day and it died en route. So I have to get seahorses from my LFS. Fortunately, I have a legit LFS near me that can probably get CB dwarves, or at least a species name.

[SaylorsReef]

You may be able to find a local breeder.

[jrp1588]

Does your mom really think they get magicked to the LFS? A teleporter perhaps? They are going to be in a bag for 24 hours regardless. Is your mom paying for them? If not, it's your money, spend it how you want.

[timinnl]

Come on now. Lets go easy on (her/him?) The OP is someone in middle school.

Besides asid61 could be living under the *** my house/my rules*** Then what the parent wants they get.

[pico-reefer]

Does your mom really think they get magicked to the LFS? A teleporter perhaps? They are going to be in a bag for 24 hours regardless. Is your mom paying for them? If not, it's your money, spend it how you want.

x2

[namxas]

Come on now. Lets go easy on (her/him?) The OP is someone in middle school.

Besides asid61 could be living under the *** my house/my rules*** Then what the parent wants they get.

+1000

One also needs to remember that many parents are cautious about the internet too since there are those sickos out there who prey on kids. I've offered to answer a parent's questions before regarding venomous fish and they didn't trust me enuff to even ask me what they're kid had been trying to answer.

[jrp1588]

I'm not knocking the OP, sorry if it sounded that way. Trust me, I'm only a few years out of my teens (23.) I remember quite well the "my house, my rules" argument. I especially hated it in instances such as these where the parents clearly have no idea about the things which they are applying rules to.

Since you are in middle school, I assume mom is footing the bill for this. If all else fails, offer to pay for them yourself if you can get them from your source of choice. Go mow some lawns or something, knowing you earned that money yourself will make looking at the seahorses that much cooler.

[AGYDAL]

I've never had sea horses but I did have a Dad that wasn't too happy about my fish hobby (okay, more like obsession)...so here's some advise:

- You're parents have it in their head this hobby is negative...telling them more negatives are just going to convince them more you don't need sea horses.

- Aquariums are better than furry pets: they don't make messes on the floor, chew up stuff, dog holes in the yard, sharpen claws on furniture...etc.

- Aquariums are a great way to make learning fun! Marine tanks are garanteed ways to learn some math & science in a way that is interesting to you.

- Aquariums teach RESPONSIBILITY! Parents absolutely love that word :) I bet part of the reason that your parents are against you starting this tank is that they are worried you'll lose interest and they'll have to care for them. Maybe don't go sea horses right away...start small, see if they would let you get the sea horse environment ready (microalgae, clean up crew and such) and care for those things for awhile to prove that you are committed to what it takes to care for these guys properly.

- It's summertime, get out there and find a summer job of some sort...once again you're showing responsibility by working so YOU can be RESPONSIBLE for the cost of your new pets.

- Find an aquarium club in you're area and get one or both of your parents to go to a meeting with you, who knows maybe someone there has sea horses and can help you educate your parents on how great this they and this hobby can be.

Hope you can think of and add more to my list of positive influences an aquarium hobby can have on your life as a whole...and if all else fails you can always try the way my Mom would convince my Dad my tanks weren't such a bad thing for me to be interested in...she'd always say, "Would you rather our child be interested in dating?" He never agrued back on that one lol!

Good luck, just be patient, understanding and respectful with your parents about this issue and hopefully your parents will start to understand your interest in this hobby...who knows they might even learn to love the hobby themselves if educated about it prproperly...sea horses could be a cool & fun family bonding experience.

[asid61]

+1000

One also needs to remember that many parents are cautious about the internet too since there are those sickos out there who prey on kids.
Both my mom and brother don't trust any of you online, :( even though I sure most of you have seahorse/saltwater experience. So I'm going to the pet store today so we can talk to an employee about how and why seahorses are difficult.

[asid61]

Besides asid61 could be living under the *** my house/my rules*** Then what the parent wants they get.
Exactly. I tell my mom, "They acclimate the fish just like I do!" but she thinks I can't acclimate the fish as well as they can.

[asid61]

- It's summertime, get out there and find a summer job of some sort...once again you're showing responsibility by working so YOU can be RESPONSIBLE for the cost of your new pets.

- Find an aquarium club in you're area and get one or both of your parents to go to a meeting with you, who knows maybe someone there has sea horses and can help you educate your parents on how great this they and this hobby can be.
I babysit and make about $20 a week as a job year-round, but she still doesn't consider me responsible.
I live in the bay area, and the closest aquarium club has their meetings in Hayward, 2 hours away.

[Kay Tickle]

Both my mom and brother don't trust any of you online, :( even though I sure most of you have seahorse/saltwater experience. So I'm going to the pet store today so we can talk to an employee about how and why seahorses are difficult.

This is scary. You MUST report on what the store tells you. The people on this forum have been doing this for so long and have so much experience.

[asid61]

The guy at the pet store told my mom that they're difficult, (no duh) and recommended that I start off with some easy corals and clownfish. If I keep these alive for 3 months, then I can keep a seahorse, he said. Unfortunately, the pet store only carries black and yellow banded pipefish, and they don't get in seahorses because they can't take care of them.
So, I will go for some black and yellow banded pipefishes in my teacher's aquarium at school next year.
My home aquarium will probably be converted in a nano reef, until my LFS gets seahorses in.
Thank you for all the info!

Also, the staffmemver at my LFS said there was a quiz online I can take. He said it was on seahorseriders.com or something, but I can't find the link. Can anyone tell me what the site is?

[SaylorsReef]

Nano reef, corals, and clownfish are all things that need to be looked at when thinking about seahorses. If you tank is to small, and if it has a hood, it is not a good idea to keep seahorses in because of heat issues. Depending on species, a nano may be too small for horses. For dwarves, you tank may be too big.

A lot of coral can not be kept with seahorses because they will get stung. Clownfish can out compete the seahorses for food. Seahorses don't have to be difficult. They do have special requirements. Once the requirements have been met, regular maintenance and feedings is basically all you need. They are not like other fish though, where you can go away for a few days and expect them to be doing well when you get back. You will need to have someone come in and feed them if you are going away.

[namxas]

Both my mom and brother don't trust any of you online, :( even though I sure most of you have seahorse/saltwater experience. So I'm going to the pet store today so we can talk to an employee about how and why seahorses are difficult.

I get that part, as I'm a dad of three (my youngest is 14), however, I've also made some wonderful friends and contacts all over the world from the internet and the hobby, so just as there are bad things about it, there are also great things about it.

As far as experience goes...let's see now, I have a good 21 years of SW experience and about 53 years of FW.

Unless you have a LFS employee who has actually KEPT SH, they won't know much, if anything...seriously. SH are one of the worst fish in terms of old, outdated information, and simply WRONG info.

[AGYDAL]

Bummer. Maybe you could start a club at your school? I bet if your teacher has a fish tank they would be happy to mentor a student aquarium club? You might be surprised about how many students who are interested in aquariums...also, starting a club like that are good things to put on job applications and later on college applications.

I babysit and make about $20 a week as a job year-round, but she still doesn't consider me responsible.
I live in the bay area, and the closest aquarium club has their meetings in Hayward, 2 hours away.

[asid61]

My school does have clubs, so I might start one. Thanks for the idea.

[chrisv]

If your teacher is a marine aquarium enthusiast, maybe you should have this conversation with him/her and then have your parents discuss it with them.

+! on the comment about outdated info on seahorses. It really is amazing how much has changed in this hobby and how much has been learned. When i was about 13 and I started my first reef, I saw a picture of a purple Acropora gemmifera in veron's book but at the time NOBODY could keep acropora alive in a tank. It was honestly believed that it couldnt be done. one of the most commonly seen corals was Goniopora-- which is currently (with the exception of a few aquacultured strains) is considered to be about as long lasting as a cut flower. Hell, they used to sell "ricodea rock" by the pound!.

[Kay Tickle]

[QUOTE=asid61;18905392]The guy at the pet store told my mom that they're difficult, (no duh) and recommended that I start off with some easy corals and clownfish. If I keep these alive for 3 months, then I can keep a seahorse, he said. QUOTE]

This is reassuring that your LFS wanted you to start off easier. However, remember that you probably won't want a clownfish with a SH. So, if you are going to start off with something simpler, make sure it will be a suitable tankmate for seahorses, if you are still planning on keeping them.

[Elysia]

Wait a minute! I know that parents aren't always logical, but ... if your parents aren't convinced that you are responsible, and they don't trust people on the internet, then why are they permitting you to use these sort of sites?

Did I understand correctly that a pipefish was recommended for a classroom aquarium? Pipefish also need a lot of care. They aren't the type of fish that I could see leaving for holidays in a classroom...

Do you have an aquarium already? If so, what size is it?
Both you and your parents should do some research this summer. The number one thing that should be done: go to the LFS when they get their fish shipment in. If they are like most shops, they open the boxes on the floor and both you and your mother can get a realistic picture of fish mortality when fish are shipped from wholesellers. This will also give her the idea that wholesellers ship with price (i.e. weight) in mind, not the welfare of the fish. I was shocked when I saw freshwater betta fish shipped in tube-like bags with barely an inch of water in them -- in fact, at first I thought the fish were in the bags because they were dead, as it was just a hundred little bags with air all thrown inside one large garbage bag. The kid who was about to unpack them told me that this was actually better shipping conditions than most bettas receive -- often they are shipped on wet paper towels.
Next, if you are still interested in dwarf horses, there is a book that was written all about their care. You may even be able to find it in your local library. Perhaps both you and your parents should read it. It covers everything you'll need to know about successfully keeping dwarves. Of course, my copy isn't at this house and I don't remember the author's name off hand, but I think it is the only dwarf seahorse book published in the last decade.
If you have a smaller tank and would like a similar experience, but one that would be a bit easier, I would look into getting a single blue stripe pipefish. Although the pipe would likely need the addition of freshly hatched brine shrimp (which you would need to hatch, just like for the dwarves), the pipe can and will hunt down the brine and will appreciate live rock in its tank (which will help with filtration.) So you would still have the responsibility of the food (which is a major part of owning dwarves), but some of the husbandry issues would be easier, and there is a chance that you could get the pipe onto frozen foods. Plus, the pipe could live with other peaceful fish -- perhaps a goby or two.
Good luck.

[namxas]

I'd say that most pipes are harder to keep than SH, since there are no CB pipes available commercially in the US, and IIRC, Mick Payne in Oz has gotten out of the biz.

The book Elysia mentioned is The Complete Guide to Dwarf Seahorses in the Aquarium by Alisa Wagner Abbott. You can get it from Amazon.com.

[asid61]

Wait a minute! I know that parents aren't always logical, but ... if your parents aren't convinced that you are responsible, and they don't trust people on the internet, then why are they permitting you to use these sort of sites?

Did I understand correctly that a pipefish was recommended for a classroom aquarium? Pipefish also need a lot of care. They aren't the type of fish that I could see leaving for holidays in a classroom...

Do you have an aquarium already? If so, what size is it?
Both you and your parents should do some research this summer. The number one thing that should be done: go to the LFS when they get their fish shipment in. If they are like most shops, they open the boxes on the floor and both you and your mother can get a realistic picture of fish mortality when fish are shipped from wholesellers. This will also give her the idea that wholesellers ship with price (i.e. weight) in mind, not the welfare of the fish. I was shocked when I saw freshwater betta fish shipped in tube-like bags with barely an inch of water in them -- in fact, at first I thought the fish were in the bags because they were dead, as it was just a hundred little bags with air all thrown inside one large garbage bag. The kid who was about to unpack them told me that this was actually better shipping conditions than most bettas receive -- often they are shipped on wet paper towels.
Next, if you are still interested in dwarf horses, there is a book that was written all about their care. You may even be able to find it in your local library. Perhaps both you and your parents should read it. It covers everything you'll need to know about successfully keeping dwarves. Of course, my copy isn't at this house and I don't remember the author's name off hand, but I think it is the only dwarf seahorse book published in the last decade.
If you have a smaller tank and would like a similar experience, but one that would be a bit easier, I would look into getting a single blue stripe pipefish. Although the pipe would likely need the addition of freshly hatched brine shrimp (which you would need to hatch, just like for the dwarves), the pipe can and will hunt down the brine and will appreciate live rock in its tank (which will help with filtration.) So you would still have the responsibility of the food (which is a major part of owning dwarves), but some of the husbandry issues would be easier, and there is a chance that you could get the pipe onto frozen foods. Plus, the pipe could live with other peaceful fish -- perhaps a goby or two.
Good luck.

My mom lets me on these sites for general knowlege so that the guy at the LFS can confirm what you've already said.
I have a 10 gallon aquarium, but keep a 29 gallon at school.
Maybe a blestripe would be better, because I won't have to buy as many as dwarf seahorses, and I can ask my LFS if they get any in. What size tank does it need? Can it be fed tigger-pods? Arcti-pods? My parents will not let any fish-related stuff be in the freezer, except phyto-feast, so can freeze-dried brine freeze-dried mysid be fed? Do pipefishes need holdfasts?

[namxas]

A single blue stripe would do OK in a 10 gal, however, unless you want to be hatching Artemia or buying lots of live pods, you'll need to wean it onto frozen mysis, cyclopeeze, or ova, which if you can't keep the stuff in the freezer, you'll need to be prepared to feed the fish live foods for life.

Flagfin pipes don't require hitches since they physically can't hitch (only "pipehorses" hitch), altho they do appreciate rockwork to hide and swim amongst.

[asid61]

Thanks, naxmas. I will keep one blustripe in there iin a few months, once my parents are confident enough to let me.

[chrisv]

I think that the biggest disconnect here is that your parents dont understand two things:

1) most LFS staff know far less about reef husbandry than a well informed hobbyist.

2) The conditions at most LFS are WHY the fish mortality is so high. if you constantly bring in new fish under suboptimal conditions, you are constantly putting stressed fish in with sick fish. Most LFS dont have a QT system. Mail order is MUCH safer for the fish. frankly, if i wanted to buy a fish at my lfs I would be inclined to do so as a special order and ask them not to put it in their system...just buy it as it was packed before it got there.

HAving worked at a LFS when I was a highschool student myself, I can promise you that unless you have a LFS that really specializes in saltwater in a way that most do not, they are not keeping the fish under ideal conditions and the staff has probably read less about this than you have.

Just because the adult at your LFS is an adult does not make them right or intelligent-- and working at an LFS only means they know about SELLING fish.

[asid61]

I think that the biggest disconnect here is that your parents dont understand two things:

1) most LFS staff know far less about reef husbandry than a well informed hobbyist.



My parents only trust their facebook friends online. I think they just don't want me to get a seahorse because they think I will forget to feed them or something.

[chrisv]

meh... I feel like if your pet dies, nobody will be more upset than you. There are a lot of good lessons to learn from a marine aquarium.

[asid61]

meh... I feel like if your pet dies, nobody will be more upset than you.

Is that good or bad?

[chrisv]

neither good nor bad. a sense of responsibility is important. unfortunately if you are in this hobby long enough you are going to kill some fish.

[asid61]

My mom has relented and say I can keep a bluestipe in a couple months!!!
:rollface::):fun4::rollface::):fun4:

[TwistedNerve]

Glad to hear that she is letting you keep something. Please do more research on them. Are you keeping it at school?

[asid61]

No. I am going to keep it in a 10 gallon.
Probably a golden dwarf moray is going to go in the school tank.