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Authentic
06/13/2011, 04:00 PM
30 gal tank live sand,25 lbs of live rock,purchased water.I've been checking the ammonia and it's off the charts but its only been running about 4 days. How long does it usually take to cycle?..

lordofthereef
06/13/2011, 04:03 PM
It will take as long as it takes. I know that sounds like a "smart" remark, but it's the truth. Generally it should be done in six weeks or less though. What did you do to kickstart the cycle (if anything)?

Authentic
06/13/2011, 04:52 PM
Live rock,live sand,live water,is there anything else to do?

lordofthereef
06/13/2011, 05:02 PM
Nope. Just ride it out and be patient. Where did you get the rock? If it was in an established system along with the sand, I would think that the sand is what kicked up a cycle.

TheDon
06/13/2011, 05:09 PM
I used live sand, cured rock, and natural seawater and my cycle was like 4 days. I basiclly moved and tank over and no need for a cycle.

msaleem
06/13/2011, 05:09 PM
some people buy a damsel to cycle the tank. its probably NOT going to survive.

lordofthereef
06/13/2011, 05:23 PM
some people buy a damsel to cycle the tank. its probably NOT going to survive.

This is completely unnecessary and, IMO, bad advice. :deadhorse1:

briankmarsh1980
06/13/2011, 06:03 PM
I would just test once a week for right now once the ammonia starts to drop then your nitrates/nitrites will rise once all 3 are reading 0 you should be good to go. Just remember when you are ready to add fish just add 1 at a time and give a week between fish.

Authentic
06/14/2011, 05:03 AM
What about adding anenome and coral? Does it have to be done as slowly as fish?

bdr
06/14/2011, 05:11 AM
a piece of shrimp is good for getting the cycle going well

pentrix2
06/14/2011, 05:59 AM
i would add them slowly as well. the anenome are sensitive so those will be roughly 6 months later. a lot of folks recommend to wait 8-12 months later to add them.

depending on the coral, i say 3-4 months

Pen

Chromey316
06/14/2011, 06:37 AM
Take your time.

And advice on adding a animal just to watch it die... Not so smart. and cruel

chris31
06/14/2011, 06:51 AM
during the cycle should a UV sterilizer and or a skimmer be run or no?

pentrix2
06/14/2011, 06:56 AM
IMO for the cycling UV sterilzer isn't needed and a skimmer is not needed as well because the water is too new, there's nothing in the water to skim nor bacteria to kill off. also, you don't want to skim or UV sterlizer good bacteria.

just my 2 cents.

Pen

Manta034
06/14/2011, 07:53 AM
If I were you I would use your skimmer and conduct frequent large water changes as well. From the articles I have read, skimming along with frequent water changes (the linked articles suggests a 25% water change every day of the cycle) will reduce the length of the cycle and keep your levels from spiking. This will prevent further die off of your live rock.

When I cycled my tank I ran my skimmer the entire time and conducted a 15-25% water change every 3 days or so. The tank cycled in about three weeks with little die off. This method seemed to work great for me!

Article on myths of reefkeeping. Myth #1 Water changes prolong the cycle.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/newbie/index.php

pentrix2
06/14/2011, 09:49 AM
If I were you I would use your skimmer and conduct frequent large water changes as well. From the articles I have read, skimming along with frequent water changes (the linked articles suggests a 25% water change every day of the cycle) will reduce the length of the cycle and keep your levels from spiking. This will prevent further die off of your live rock.

When I cycled my tank I ran my skimmer the entire time and conducted a 15-25% water change every 3 days or so. The tank cycled in about three weeks with little die off. This method seemed to work great for me!

Article on myths of reefkeeping. Myth #1 Water changes prolong the cycle.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/newbie/index.php

that link is a good read. i enjoyed reading it entirely.

Pen

Mr.Tan
06/14/2011, 09:59 AM
my cycle took about 2 weeks from start to finish. I used liverock and live sand along with dumping something called special blend in to help kick it into gear. I checked my levels frequently and still do (because people told me i moved to quick) and everything is perfect and has been. Most people will tell you to wait a couple months before adding fish or anything, but I've had great luck with my green chromis which i added 2 weeks after the tank started, and they are both doing fine and as healthy as can possibly be

NirvanaFan
06/14/2011, 10:07 AM
IMO for the cycling UV sterilzer isn't needed and a skimmer is not needed as well because the water is too new, there's nothing in the water to skim nor bacteria to kill off. also, you don't want to skim or UV sterlizer good bacteria.

just my 2 cents.

Pen

IMO, you want to use a skimmer. Your cycle is caused by decaying organics. The skimmer helps remove them.

Uncle Salty 05
06/14/2011, 10:17 AM
When your nitrites reach zero, do a 50% water change and then you can start slowly adding hardy inexpensive fish.
If you wait more than 2 weeks after your nitrites reach zero before adding fish, the beneficial bacteria you were culturing during your cycle will begin to die off in the absence of a food source.
I would not advise adding any corals for at least 2-3 months after your initial cycle, and you should test at least twice weekly during those 2-3 months to be sure all of your parameters are solid.

pentrix2
06/14/2011, 11:33 AM
IMO, you want to use a skimmer. Your cycle is caused by decaying organics. The skimmer helps remove them.

I didn't know that, that's a good point. Even with 4 tanks I still consider myself a beginner. I wish I would of known this when I started out. :wave:

Pen

Authentic
06/14/2011, 11:36 AM
thanks for all the help.i did add some beneficial bacteria/reef safe,now ill sit and wait

briankmarsh1980
06/14/2011, 12:24 PM
you don't need the bacteria, unless you have some major die off due to baking your rocks or something......

right now just sit back and play the waiting game :)

this would be a good time to make a fish list and a coral list.
www.LiveAquaria.com
www.bluezooaquatics.com
those are good web sites make a list of what you like and post it in a new thread with your tank size and lighting all that good stuff so we can let you know what you can keep/have.

mjwz06
06/15/2011, 08:21 AM
IMO, you want to use a skimmer. Your cycle is caused by decaying organics. The skimmer helps remove them.

If the DOCs cause the cycle, why would you want to remove them with a skimmer?

I'm sorry if this comes across as argumentative - it's was not my intention. Just trying to understand your reasoning.

hyperge
06/15/2011, 08:41 AM
Sorry to hijack the thread, but I am in a similar position, week 2 of cycling.

I started with 35 lbs LR, 30lbs LS and a mix of old/new water in a 35g display with sump 10g (and a rubble refugium with like 1.5 g).

I am using normal daily light cycle (roughly 7h white + blue, blue for total of 11.5h), skim and have normal currents.
I also have a minimum of 4 crabs (<= 1") that came with the LR, + 1 hermit and 2 hitchhiker snails (all three very small) as well as a few unIDed minor shrimps. As I will go on vacation in 1 week, I hesitantly introduced 5 larger hermits (1-2") and 5 Tectus snails to fight algae 2 days ago (as the hitchhikers are doing well and levels were good after one week).

I also use a bacteria system, zeolith and some adsorber to prevent excessive phosphate levels.
Is this too much bioload to cycle the tank? Any foreseeable problems during my 18 day vacation? I have (untrained) friends that will check the skimmer and ATO level during my absence.
Any tips for adjusting the system during my absence?

thanks for you advice

Lynnmw1208
06/15/2011, 09:22 AM
you don't really have to do anything but wait for the cycle to end. I didn't do water changes or anything. I had a short light cycle at 6 hours a day and cleaned out my skimmer when necessary. My tank cycled in 18 days. Not messing with it is what I think helped.

Have fun and go SLOW with adding things. I'd add a clean up crew first before fish.

thegrun
06/15/2011, 10:28 AM
If I were you I would use your skimmer and conduct frequent large water changes as well. From the articles I have read, skimming along with frequent water changes (the linked articles suggests a 25% water change every day of the cycle) will reduce the length of the cycle and keep your levels from spiking. This will prevent further die off of your live rock.

When I cycled my tank I ran my skimmer the entire time and conducted a 15-25% water change every 3 days or so. The tank cycled in about three weeks with little die off. This method seemed to work great for me!

Article on myths of reefkeeping. Myth #1 Water changes prolong the cycle.
http://reefkeeping.com/issues/2009-04/newbie/index.php

I do run my skimmer during cycles, but making frequent water changes will not speed up the process. If your live rock has some nice corals growing on it, water changes to keep the ammonia levels at 1.0 maximum will increase the odds of the coral surviving. Frequent water changes will also mean a less robust cycle which means at the end, your fish additions will need to be smaller and less frequent until the bacteria levels increase with bio-load. In general, I almost never make water changes until the tank has cycled.

Uncle Salty 05
06/15/2011, 12:03 PM
I do run my skimmer during cycles, but making frequent water changes will not speed up the process. If your live rock has some nice corals growing on it, water changes to keep the ammonia levels at 1.0 maximum will increase the odds of the coral surviving. Frequent water changes will also mean a less robust cycle which means at the end, your fish additions will need to be smaller and less frequent until the bacteria levels increase with bio-load. In general, I almost never make water changes until the tank has cycled.

+1
By doing water changes and removing the food source for your bacteria you decrease their numbers.

Ceebuano
06/15/2011, 12:15 PM
i've been cycling for about 6weeks now..and im seeing algae grow in my tank (red,brown,green), haven't really tested the params yet..but would this be a good sign to go and add stock?

T.I.A. :)

organism
06/15/2011, 12:18 PM
i've been cycling for about 6weeks now..and im seeing algae grow in my tank (red,brown,green), haven't really tested the params yet..but would this be a good sign to go and add stock?

T.I.A. :)

You never know, better to check the parameters first...

thegrun
06/15/2011, 12:19 PM
i've been cycling for about 6weeks now..and im seeing algae grow in my tank (red,brown,green), haven't really tested the params yet..but would this be a good sign to go and add stock?

T.I.A. :)

By both duration and algae growth, it is likely the cycle is complete. Test for ammonia and nitrites, if both are at zero, you are ready to add (slowly) fish. But please do test rather than guess.

Uncle Salty 05
06/15/2011, 12:25 PM
i've been cycling for about 6weeks now..and im seeing algae grow in my tank (red,brown,green), haven't really tested the params yet..but would this be a good sign to go and add stock?

T.I.A. :)

If your tank cycled in three weeks, and there has not been a food source available for your bacteria most if not all will have died off and adding livestock will begin the cycle all over again. :reading:

Ceebuano
06/15/2011, 12:34 PM
By both duration and algae growth, it is likely the cycle is complete. Test for ammonia and nitrites, if both are at zero, you are ready to add (slowly) fish. But please do test rather than guess.



If your tank cycled in three weeks, and there has not been a food source available for your bacteria most if not all will have died off and adding livestock will begin the cycle all over again. :reading:


wow thanks for the quick reply guys.

thegrun : -> yes i'll go and test this later after i get off from work hehehehe.

uncle salty : would adding conditioned water from my 80g tank in the past help in keeping these bacterias alive?

i also installed a skimmer today and it hasn't been producing much of a skimmate, also would adding additives (ammovec and biostarter) bring me back to cycling the whole thing again?? or it should be good to go from its present state?

t.i.a

Uncle Salty 05
06/15/2011, 12:47 PM
Have you been putting any food or anything in the tank?
Is there anything living in the tank?
If the answer is no to both questions, you will likely need to cycle the tank again.
No water from an established tank will not help.
The beneficial bacteria grow on all surfaces that the water comes in contact with, but not in the water itself.
Water from an established tank should have zero ammonia and nitrite and would therefore not provide any food source for the bacteria.
Drop a shrimp in there for a few days and begin testing for ammonia and nitrite.

Ceebuano
06/15/2011, 01:07 PM
Have you been putting any food or anything in the tank?
Is there anything living in the tank?
If the answer is no to both questions, you will likely need to cycle the tank again.
No water from an established tank will not help.
The beneficial bacteria grow on all surfaces that the water comes in contact with, but not in the water itself.
Water from an established tank should have zero ammonia and nitrite and would therefore not provide any food source for the bacteria.
Drop a shrimp in there for a few days and begin testing for ammonia and nitrite.


okay thank you so much for the tip, we'll for your question i actually dropped in about 1/16 of a tsp. of tetra marine flakes 2wks ago..nothing living though..would adding a goby do the trick? shortage of fishes on my LFS gives me enought trouble to get shrimps.ehehehe

Uncle Salty 05
06/15/2011, 01:26 PM
That little bit of food might have saved you from cycling twice, but testing is really the only way to know.
By shrimp I mean the raw frozen ones you buy to eat from the grocery store.
But be sure it is raw. (white not red)

Ceebuano
06/15/2011, 01:37 PM
That little bit of food might have saved you from cycling twice, but testing is really the only way to know.
By shrimp I mean the raw frozen ones you buy to eat from the grocery store.
But be sure it is raw. (white not red)


hahaha okay sorry for the mix_up, i'm gonna go test it once i get out from work, and yeah ill try to post pics of the tank as well.this is my first venture in the nano biz so i want it to be successfull hehehehe