Same Zoanthid/Paly --- different names? Driving me NUTS

[returnofsid]

Okay, so this is driving me BATTY!!

I'm finding, what I believe are identical Zoanthids/Palys, with different names and I'm going BONKERS. Someone help me clear this up. OR, are new names being given, to older "high end" polyps, once the hype is over, to start the hype all over again??

Examples:

Mohawks/Chong Bongs/Variable Stars/Everlasting Gobstoppers/maybe even Date Nights

Armor of God/Devil's Armor/Armageddons

Blue Eyed Dragon/AOI/Blue Steel

Eagle Eye/Whammin Watermelon

Flamingos/Miami Vice

Some new one I've just seen, but can't remember the name of/Valentine Day Massacre

Another new one I've seen recently but can't remember the name of/Magicians

PHE (Purple Hearted Zoanthids)/Joker Palys

I could go on and on and on, but my fingers are tired...lol.

Am I just nuts?
Some look identical to me. Some look slightly different, but only slightly, as in different photography.

Before someone says, "they're all different, buy each and you'll see the difference," I HAVE!

I have bought some of the same, all from reputable sources, and they look identical in my tank. I've even seen a reputable vendor, who's also a sponsor on a lot of forums, this one included, who's used the exact same photo, to sell Mohawks and Chong Bongs...lol

I honestly believe it's all about sales. Sales on Mohawks start to decline, so let's change the name to Variable Stars, to create a "new" product, with more hype...lol.

[Herk]

some of the ones above are synonymous and others are slight variations. Say for example you have a lunar eclipse frag and in your tank the starry center turns more of an orange because of either more intense lighting or less lighting then in turn you could say it was a variation.

[KafudaFish]

some of the ones above are synonymous and others are slight variations. Say for example you have a lunar eclipse frag and in your tank the starry center turns more of an orange because of either more intense lighting or less lighting then in turn you could say it was a variation.

But how does that define two color morphs?

If company A has more lighting and more orange and sold orange lunars and company B has less lighting and less orange and sold them as orange stars does that mean the reefer now has two morphs or just one with variations?

Not arguing just asking btw.

[MDP]

Good post and proves why naming zoas is a waste of time and ultimately money.

[LPSGurl]

This has always been a concern with me, Many look exacly alike, others there are slight variances, such as the AOG's, and Goochsters, upon first glanse they look the same, but under closer inspection the AOG's have a second dark ring to them... Same thing with the Eagle eyes/Watermelon, I have both and the watermelons have more of a red center, with the bright green skirt, the Eagle eyes not so bright, under the same lighting....


I agree totally though. If a Zoa is totally off the wall, either by color combination, or what not, such as Rasta's, I'm going to buy it whether it has a name or not. Got to remember, they all came out of the ocean some time or another!

I say if the color combo is something awesome, get it. Some of the high end name Zoas and what not are pretty boring... Such as the Mohawks.. I think they are pretty boring, and wouldn't pay squat for them!

I think it's all about sales also!

That's just me though!



Christina

[8-ball]

Some of the ones are in fact identical but others are similar with some variations this can come from regions or even morph due to light, parameters, depth, ect. I think the trick is to not get hung up on the name if you like it buy it b/c it will be different in your tank anyway from what it looks like in someonelses tank. One interesting thing, the HPE (Happy people eaters) look alot like magicians however the polyp size is way different magicians are tiny and HPE's are large, but no variation in color or look.

[BeanMachine]

Some of the ones are in fact identical but others are similar with some variations this can come from regions or even morph due to light, parameters, depth, ect. I think the trick is to not get hung up on the name if you like it buy it b/c it will be different in your tank anyway from what it looks like in someonelses tank. One interesting thing, the HPE (Happy people eaters) look alot like magicians however the polyp size is way different magicians are tiny and HPE's are large, but no variation in color or look.

Yeah my HPE's are humongous but would have to say they are different in that the center has contrasting lines darker and lighter red... they also have those white striations when the polyps are closed, unlike regular magicians. I've read the white markings on certain zoas are indicative of a different species.

[jjmcat]

lineage is all you need to determine the real name and true color of the zoas and palys.Since they all came from the ocean it might be hard on a few of them lolololololololol

[650-IS350]

LMAO this has been the same issue with Z's and P's for years and the pet peeves of older reefers in regards to same freakin polyps, different lighting schemes, tank parameters, slightly different look ( but same polyp ) slight morph due to new conditions then BLAM new designer name, LITTLE TIMMY ( coined from a buddy ) buys it cause it's new and want to be the first then price sky rockets, new fad, forum pimpin then next thing ya know... 150 a polyp with a crazy name. SAME ISH' for me doesn't change...thank goodness I no longer collect or buy corals anymore ( this thing killed reefing to me )

Don't gotta deal with that game anymore.

[returnofsid]

LMAO this has been the same issue with Z's and P's for years and the pet peeves of older reefers....


Hey, who are you calling old???!!! :beachbum:

[NyReefNoob]

alot of the one's you named are truelly different, stores might not have the right name though example

Mohawks-diff then ->Chong Bongs/and these/Everlasting Gobstoppers/maybe even Date Nights

Armor of God-diff-Devil's Armor-diff -Armageddons


and the lineage thing, not like you get a certificate, ive seen people trying to pawn tyree stuff off that isnt tyree, even though it is the same coral, same goes for jason fox stuff, and funny part to me is how their name attached to it makes it worth more, and especially seeing i have the same corals they do and even some of the one's who they got theirs from especially on some of the tyree stuff he got from members in CT

[650-IS350]

Sorry but Lineage corals dont mean jack to me. All of these corals come from the same place or collection area. Just because Tyree / JF got their chalice first and named it and I got my same exact chalice a month later but didn't get it from them or from someone that got it from them means that my SAME coral aint ISH' is BS too me...

Corals and naming IMO is strictly a fad and more to drive up price... and yes... put do want those high prices cause it pays for their own private costs and allows them to make more money to buy the next big named thing and start the same ISH' over again.

BTW- I see the same polyps from 1 vendor who carries it first for a good decent price per FRAG, then another vendor gets a hold of the same type polyps, puts super macro shot ( using a nice DSLR ) blasted with LED's/attinics, blasted with 400-600watt radiums to get a better reprentation of the same polyp but 50 times its original size or how you would see it in your own tank but with a PER POLYP PRICE @ around 50-150 a piece or 100 for 2-3 polyps on a WHITE clean frag plug. Tell me if you guys don't see this around now.

[bluenassarius]

Sorry but Lineage corals dont mean jack to me. All of these corals come from the same place or collection area. Just because Tyree / JF got their chalice first and named it and I got my same exact chalice a month later but didn't get it from them or from someone that got it from them means that my SAME coral aint ISH' is BS too me...

Corals and naming IMO is strictly a fad and more to drive up price... and yes... put do want those high prices cause it pays for their own private costs and allows them to make more money to buy the next big named thing and start the same ISH' over again.

chuck, are you saying that all the corals come from the ocean originally and not tyree's tank?

[650-IS350]

LMAO Sam.

BTW- there are some good vendors out there and there are also some shady ones

[derekdelisi]

Corals and naming IMO is strictly a fad and more to drive up price... and yes... put do want those high prices cause it pays for their own private costs and allows them to make more money to buy the next big named thing and start the same ISH' over again.

BTW- I see the same polyps from 1 vendor who carries it first for a good decent price per FRAG, then another vendor gets a hold of the same type polyps, puts super macro shot ( using a nice DSLR ) blasted with LED's/attinics, blasted with 400-600watt radiums to get a better reprentation of the same polyp but 50 times its original size or how you would see it in your own tank but with a PER POLYP PRICE @ around 50-150 a piece or 100 for 2-3 polyps on a WHITE clean frag plug. Tell me if you guys don't see this around now.

The naming may not be the only reason for price increases. Everything relative is also getting more expensive. I agree, certain people do go too far, but I don't mind it. The price increase is creating larger profit for many owners, but it has also attracted many more small-time vendors to the market. I've personally noticed that within the past 5 years the availability of corals online has seriously increased. I no longer need to rely on 2-3 vendors, but I can choose from 50+ different vendors from around the world. What has also increased is types and kinds of products available. For the longest time at reef-shops in Montreal (in terms of zoanthids) I had a choice: brown or yellow. More people selling zoanthids means more people striving to do better than their competition. That's why we have a greater selection; AND that's also why the prices are slowly decreasing.

A jump in pricing is exaclty what we needed. It has created interest in our field, and this interest has contributed to articles, studies, new findings and so much more. The prices will settle. For the time being, when you shop, look at pictures and the prices, ignore the names and I'm sure you'll be just fine.

[650-IS350]

pricing is exaclty what we needed. really? :uhoh2:

That is what brought out every new chop shop in the last several years and has brought up the name game, Hyping, Photoshopping, price gouging to the extreme of what it is now.. cause people see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Get a colony for 75-100, chop it up to single polyp frags, hype it up on every forum, get a couple folks to team up with you to hype and talk about it, place a for sale thread on every online coral forum, ebay/CL then next thing you know 100-300 for a single polyp of a newly discovered polyp that doesn't have the longevity or survivability in peoples tanks yet... ya I know, people buy in bulk to get a chance to have the distributer give them a couple pieces that have nice colors, but to do that lets pass that cost into the consumer right.. then once that hype has died down, with the money you made get the newest discovery and start the whole process over again and again.....

[djkms]

really? :uhoh2:

That is what brought out every new chop shop in the last several years and has brought up the name game, Hyping, Photoshopping, price gouging to the extreme of what it is now.. cause people see $$$$$$$$$$$$$$.

Get a colony for 75-100, chop it up to single polyp frags, hype it up on every forum, get a couple folks to team up with you to hype and talk about it

We call this place Reeef2Reeef :debi:

[650-IS350]

It's actually prevalent on various forums/places not just RC... no one specific. sometimes it takes a trained eye to see it.

[bluenassarius]

LMAO Sam.



chuck, why you laughing? i'm devastated, absolutely devastated with this new found knowledge. thank you for shining a light.

We call this place Reeef2Reeef :debi:

reek2reek is all about hyping up the boutique corals

[650-IS350]

Long time no see u in there forums bud

[noobtothereef]

LMAO Sam.

BTW- there are some good vendors out there and there are also some shady ones

well i believe ALOT of the vendors are shady, many of them are into this fad and have been in the business for less than 2 years......

The main one i currently like is liveaquaria, i can go to divers den, pick out $200 of zoas and have them shipped for free and have probably 1500 polyps.......... any other vendors zoa's are around $2.00 polyp minimum........ for basic green zoa's....come on 5 polyp frags for $30??? Through L.A. i can cover the bottom of my tank with zoa's for $400... here youd be lucky to find a "mini colony" (thats what the new kids call a frag) for that.... I remember seeing a purple hornet frag with i think 16 polyps for $1000 shipped..... thats silly... Our local coral trading sucks anymore because of this, people are chopping up theyre entire tanks and making makeshift frag tanks and selling everything... for huge profits, i also wonder how some of these guys get away with posting hundreds of frags a month and arent considered "commercial selling" some are selling more than most vendors.... 5-30 pc frag packs??? When your selling $1000's of dollars of coral monthly its definately commercial and tax evasion...

I think im gonna start a website selling zoa frags with "new names" for a $1 a frag, buy $50 colonies and chop them up into 100 frags each and flood the market............

[noobtothereef]

More people selling zoanthids means more people striving to do better than their competition. That's why we have a greater selection; AND that's also why the prices are slowly decreasing.

A jump in pricing is exaclty what we needed.

WOW you are brainwashed or just filthy rich. the prices wont go down with more competition, look at the vendors prices, they are all high and sell 2-3-4-5 polyp frags.... for huge money and are laughing all the way to the bank... all these names like tyree and such..... he made his name by buying corals and selling them for HUGE prices, not because he has anything LE, collector etc...... Its funny i see some newcombers order soooo many corals spending tens of thousands of dollars for bragging rights, they know every "name" of every coral in theyre tank for bragging purposes for how much money they spent, little do they know ive seen many tanks where people have spent less than $200 on corals for theyre entire tank and are breathtaking....

[noobtothereef]

Sorry but Lineage corals dont mean jack to me.

me neither, i laugh when i hear "lineage" haha

[derekdelisi]

the prices wont go down with more competition, look at the vendors prices, they are all high and sell 2-3-4-5 polyp frags....[emphasis mine]

You've mixed tenses up, both in your brain and in the language.


for huge money and are laughing all the way to the bank... all these names like tyree and such..... he made his name by buying corals and selling them for HUGE prices, not because he has anything LE, collector etc...... Its funny i see some newcombers order soooo many corals spending tens of thousands of dollars for bragging rights, they know every "name" of every coral in theyre tank for bragging purposes for how much money they spent, little do they know ive seen many tanks where people have spent less than $200 on corals for theyre entire tank and are breathtaking....

I'm talking about economic theory, I have no idea what argument you're trying to make.

Long story short things cannot be other than they are. If you don't like it, you can keep goldfish. I'm trying to reason and predict what is actually happening, you're just complaining.

[russ13]

some corals are very close.other ones that you named look very different.i think the only thing a "named" coral does is help you get more money for it when you go to sell frags.i say go with what you think looks good in your tank.im a big fan of xienia myself and people give it away

[lilopop11]

Come to Indonesia, and i will give all zoa in the list for free ... Purple Hornets $1000 for 16 polyps ????:headwally:

Wow, i have a big colony, and i'll be rich if i live in US :spin2:

[rysher]

indosian people are not as money suckers as americans.
in indonesia you let your kids live with you for free, in america you ask your kids to pay rent.

[KafudaFish]

The naming may not be the only reason for price increases. Everything relative is also getting more expensive. I agree, certain people do go too far, but I don't mind it. The price increase is creating larger profit for many owners, but it has also attracted many more small-time vendors to the market. I've personally noticed that within the past 5 years the availability of corals online has seriously increased. I no longer need to rely on 2-3 vendors, but I can choose from 50+ different vendors from around the world. What has also increased is types and kinds of products available. For the longest time at reef-shops in Montreal (in terms of zoanthids) I had a choice: brown or yellow. More people selling zoanthids means more people striving to do better than their competition. That's why we have a greater selection; AND that's also why the prices are slowly decreasing.

A jump in pricing is exaclty what we needed. It has created interest in our field, and this interest has contributed to articles, studies, new findings and so much more. The prices will settle. For the time being, when you shop, look at pictures and the prices, ignore the names and I'm sure you'll be just fine.

That is a nice use of reverse psychology to get the point across. Most will just argue that over pricing is wrong and should not be encouraged. Instead you make it seem like you are all for the inflated prices and how they are a good thing.

Good job.

[gitsoe]

I have most of the Zoas you named and there is differences ex. devil armors and armor of gods, the devils armor hav a very pronounced bat pattern in the face of the polyp... IMO i think most of the people just have to accept that the "name game" is here to stay.and the whole price thing IS pretty crazy but all it takes is for one person to start selling a rare piece like lets say "sopranos" for $5.00pp then boom! its over... it actually helps me know which ones which i probably would never get the ones im looking for if ask around saying "anyone know where i can those red zoas with black stripes?" when i can just say im looking for some Darth mauls or whatever...

[Joshporksandwic]

Selling cheaper won't work. It has to do with people not paying those ridiculous prices. I've seen people selling god of wars frags with 5+ polyps in swaps for $20 and what happens is the big retailers at the swap bought them all and when people asked they were selling the frags for 50pp on freshly cut frags.
People charging their kids rent in the USA? LOL. When did this become a bash the usa thread?

[eg8r210]

Eagle Eye/Whammin Watermelon
This is an example of what I think I am seeing in my tank. I posted a thread about it recently with different colored skirts. All of my zoas grew from the same frag plug but a year and half later all of a sudden about 20 polyps or so started showing yellow skirts. Same zoa different color.