Canisters

[Dubbs]

Hey RC, I aked this question in the filtration threads. And got 3 responses.

I'm just getting my tank plans together, and I have a filtration question?

Ive been doing a lot of research and found out that you could use virtually any type of filter, and run a great aquarium. As long as maintance is kept up with.

So I was wondering, would a canister filter and protien skimmer be ok for a 55 gallon tank? Ill buy one that's rated well over my tank size.

My plans are too keep peaceful fish, such as clowns. And some corals. Such as zoos and torches.

Is that enough filtration? What if I get two large canisters? Change the media once a month.

[Michael]

You don't need a canister, 50-70 pounds of quality live rock and 1200 gals per hour of flow around it plus a skimmer rated at 100 gallons will be more than adequate for your 55, you could add a canister to run carbon or phosban if you really want to, but no need really, most of us cope very well without one, although in certain circumstances they can be useful.


Mike

[tmz]

Yes, a canister filter and skimmer should do fine. A skimmer only with a reactor for granulated activated carbon will work quite well too.Running granulated ferric oxide might be in our future too if it builds up in the tank. You don't need to run the ceramic media etc or sponges in a canister filter if you have adequate live rock for nitriation. Are you planning a sump set up?

[Dubbs]

Just those two. If I just had a canister, rated higher then my tank.
And good slimmer, and maybe a HOB. Lots of Live rock.

Would that be ok? I'll clean the filter weekly during cycling, and change it completely after it's cycled. And clean it weekly.

[tmz]

I think a large hob or canister would be equally good. Don't think you need both but it wouldn't hurt.

[Crawdawg]

I run a canister on my tank also, but would like to replace the media with carbon and other chemical filter media, and was looking for suggestions for what to put in it. Not trying to thread jack, seemed a good extension of the topic. Are GFO and phosban necessary, or are there any other suggestions for what I can put in it. I also have a BAKPAK skimmer, and about 75 lbs. of live rock in a 65 gallon breeder.

[Michael]

My understanding from your post is you intend to use just a canister and a skimmer and nothing else even no live rock? if so you won't be able to change out the media in the canister as it will be your only source of biological filtration, and it will get detritus in it and you will get nitrate issues and your corals won't do well in that type of set up, unless I have missed something in your first post (apologies if I have) you won't do well with that 1970s set up.

[tmz]

As I read it the OP plans" lot's of rock".
I agree surface area suitable for nitrifying bacteria and denitrifying bacteria is necessary outside teh canister filter,usually rock and some substrate.

The canister is nothing more than a closed sump with some containment ares for media in flowing water .
If there is room, a sump is more convenient for a skimmer heaters reactors etc. I use a sump , skimmers and reactors for granulated activated carbon(rox 8), granulated ferric oxide ( BRS HC). I also use a canister filter for extra carbon and purigen but do not use ceramic media ,bioballs etc since flow through them creates high oxygen environments not suitable for denitrification.

I also run a separate 65 gallon with just a small hob skimmer and a canister filter holding carbon, purigen and some ferric oxide in it but no nitrifying media ( ceramic beads ,bio balls etc).

[Sk8r]

No cannister. Run an Aqua C EV 120 skimmer or equivalent in the sump, set up a fuge there, too, and you'll do more than fine. Cannisters are a mountain of work for no benefit at all to a reef, and they produce an up-down cycle of crud relative to when they were last cleaned, which, for a reef needs to be as close to daily as you can manage. Live rock only, with a sandbed---medium grade aragonite is my favorite---is never cleaned and does a far better job. Medium doesn't blow about and get in the specimens. Lighting is also major. I use Ushio 10000k on my lps tank and get wild growth.

[Michael]

As I read it the OP plans" lot's of rock".


Sorry Tom, I missed that bit, and still have, I expect it's there in the first post somewhere, I will get my glasses on.

[Michael]

just saw it in his second post, fair enough :thumbsup:

[Crawdawg]

I have a skimmer, plenty of live rock, a 2-3 inch sand bed, and a canister that I would rather not just throw in the closet, so my thought was to replace all nitrifying media with chemical media. It sounds like gfo, and purigen are in order. Does anyone have any experience with things like magnavore nitrate lock? I only keep easy corals, zoas, palys, mushrooms, etc. There are also a pair of juvenile percs, and a pair of yellow watchmen. This is a 65 breeder.

[Netofficer3710]

Skip the canister. It will steal food from your corals and the waste it removes would just end up skimmed eventually anyway. The canoster will filter things out but they produce nitrates untill the filter is cleaned. It is better to have things skimmed out because once somethings in the collection cup it is no longer adding nitrates to the tank.

I started with a canister and a skimmer. When I removed the canister my tank suddenly needed less mantinence.

[Crawdawg]

I think im going to remove the biomedia one tray per week, and replace with purigen, carbon, and GFO. I guess make it a reactor of sorts. I like the flow it provides, and with the spray bar outlet it lets me somewhat direct the flow. It's an eheim G160, so it's pretty big, should more than hold the amount of media needed.

[dzfish17]

I think im going to remove the biomedia one tray per week, and replace with purigen, carbon, and GFO. I guess make it a reactor of sorts. I like the flow it provides, and with the spray bar outlet it lets me somewhat direct the flow. It's an eheim G160, so it's pretty big, should more than hold the amount of media needed.

I guess you officially stole this thread from the op but it doesnt look like he cares. There is nothing wrong with using a canister filter for flow or chemical filtration. I have 2 canister filters left over from when my tank was FW... they work great for added flow.

[Netofficer3710]

I guess you officially stole this thread from the op but it doesnt look like he cares. There is nothing wrong with using a canister filter for flow or chemical filtration. I have 2 canister filters left over from when my tank was FW... they work great for added flow.

sounds like awfully large and expensive powerheads!

[huggybear1000]

i had an ehiem canister filter with live rock and a protein skimmer. The canister filter just ended up being a nitrate factory and couldn't lower them until i got rid of it

[Crawdawg]

I guess the point is using what I have available and making it work for something rather than just removing it from the system. I don't think it continues to be a nitrate factory without biomedia in it. I don't have space for a sump, and throwing a bunch of media bags in the DT doesn't sound like a good idea. I'm not an overly agressive stocker either. The tank has a pair of YWGs and two very small clowns.

[muitroc]

Can anyone elaborate on some specific tests and events about the negative uses of a canister filter?

For example john smith started with a 55, skimmer, some rock and sand and a canister. After all cycling was done john noticed param spikes. Afterwards he removed said canister and now his params have been level since removing the canister. (Only an example). Anybody have real life instances to share for further proof?

[Netofficer3710]

could anyone actually say what a canister can do for a tank that is helpful aside from running carbon or GFO (which can be done in a reactor)

[Michael]

If I had a small tank, say under 15 gallons and had no room for a sump I would run a canister empty to (1) aid water volume for general parameter stability and (2) aid temperature stability, that is without the advantage of chemical filtration and water movement, however they are not needed generally and IMO only useful for very small sumpless systems.

[dzfish17]

sounds like awfully large and expensive powerheads!

The canister filters offer a little more than a powerhead. I have one hooked up with a uv sterilizer (also left over from the FW days) and the other I use for chemical filtration and added filtration if desired. The canister filters were almost brand new when I decided to go SW so why not integrate them into the system.

[abrian]

I use a Fluval 405 on my sps tank, nothing in it but one bag of GFO and one of GAC. I find it increadibly easy to unplug it, pop the top off and swap media out regularly using it. If you already have a canister, by all means go ahead and use it as a media reactor subsitute that adds some flow to the tank.

[tmz]

could anyone actually say what a canister can do for a tank that is helpful aside from running carbon or GFO (which can be done in a reac

Not much .

Moves water.

Provides containment spaces in high flow water for a variety of things .

Can be used as a mechanical filer for cleaning the water when needed.Some use them to vacuum through detrituts etc. or hook them up after striing up a tank for cleaning. I have 3 from fresh water days and use two on for carbon purigen and some gfo and the third for cleaning from time to time.

[Crawdawg]

Thanks for the insightful posts, it sounds like theres more than one way to skin a cat...
It seems that using the canister as a makeshift reactor is reasonable. I think something that will also effect using a canister is what you actually keep in the tank. As im new, I'd say im years away from a zero nutrient sps reef tank, it's also my understanding that some of the easier corals (mushrooms, xenia, etc.) actually benefit from a small amount of nutrients in the water.

[Dubbs]

Thanks for all the Canister reply's! It seems like the debate is in between. Some say ok, some say NO! The only reason I'm asking about a canister, is because the risk of a flood is low.

I'm in a apartment, and don't want to risk a flood.
Now, if I was to get a continuous Flow overflow box , does that lower the risk of a flood? If I was to get s wetdry?

[fishchef]

I have a 125 Mixed Reef set-up for the past 3 years. It was put together with some corals and LR from a system of 8 years. We have all the same problems as I read with sumps. This system has 100 pounds LR, an FX5 Canister, PS, and a TLF 150. My PO4 is .02 and Nitrates are 12.5. I'm using a polymer agent to carbon dose. My system performs and my corals thrive. I just don't have the room for a sump and I'm no plumber. Yes, it takes a lot of time. Its the Hobby. Have fun!