LED Recommendation Thread

[Felixc395]

LED's are quite common and are becoming even more popular. So to cope with the rising market, there has to be a thread to help inquires out. So why not let this be the place.

If you have any questions on LED's post them here. Others will hopefully help you out. I've been waiting for an LED Q&A thread for a while, so why not start one. As a new LED enthusiast, I can't get enough information. And what better way to learn then from others.

Pictures are always helpful and will be of great use to others. LED's are a great form of lighting and are extremely versatile. Considering that both T5 and metal halide have had Q&A threads, LED should too.

Just got a new fixture, post it! New brand that you just found out about? Post it! Need help finding the fixture that works best in your situation, feel free to ask! Have some awesome coral pics under LED's? Post them!

So ask, comment, and post away everyone!

[bif24701]

AI's seem to be the best all round, I like the blue models.

Are AI's really the best?

[Felixc395]

I wouldn't call AI's the best, however I would call them the best in reliability. They've been around long enough for people to know they do in fact work and there's a plethora of experience that people have shared to confirm it.

I believe that any fixture with 3 watt cree's is manageable. Fixtures like acanlighting or the new maxspect mazarra, that people just don't know too much about could really be quality fixtures, there's just less experience there.

[symon_say]

Why they have to be cree LED's, cant they be from anonther brand??

[Devaji108]

yes great idea for a thread as I am sure lost of people are looking in to LEDs for there tanks.
I just a new tech. that I think alot of people are having trouble justifying the price tag of LED. one day you spend 1k on lights and three months later the next best thing some along, or there a even better upgrade.

[Felixc395]

Why they have to be cree LED's, cant they be from anonther brand??

For the moment, cree's have the highest luminous output, if other manufactures can match the technology of Cree, then they would be great too. Cree is just very advanced and the moment.

yes great idea for a thread as I am sure lost of people are looking in to LEDs for there tanks.
I just a new tech. that I think alot of people are having trouble justifying the price tag of LED. one day you spend 1k on lights and three months later the next best thing some along, or there a even better upgrade.

You have a good point, but the best thing about LED is their upgradibility! Hey, a new Cree bulb comes out that's revolutionary, just switch out a puck or strip of LED's and your setup. Firmware upgrades also keep the fixtures up to date. But I understand where you're coming from. And also, a lot of people switching from high energy fixture like metal halide really get a quick payback time that is totally worth it for sure!

[brassmonkyballs]

I assume DIY is not an intended topic of this thread? It is a viable option for those 'handy' types who like to tinker a little. Talk about maintainability, serviceability, and cost savings....

[Felixc395]

I wish I was handy enough. But I'm terrible with DIY projects.

[Felixc395]

I assume DIY is not an intended topic of this thread? It is a viable option for those 'handy' types who like to tinker a little. Talk about maintainability, serviceability, and cost savings....

But of course DIY talk is welcome here. For others, DIY is a great recommendation that is an extremely valuable option for price and quality. So DIY talk away! Haha.

[bif24701]

With DIY can you get the some results as AIs? How much cost savings are we talking about with DIY vs AIs?

If AI aren't the best "All in One" the whom is?

[bif24701]

I had a few AI's. I got replaced them with an Illumina. Couldn't be happier.

What makes you happier with the Vertex Illumina??

[brassmonkyballs]

But of course DIY talk is welcome here. For others, DIY is a great recommendation that is an extremely valuable option for price and quality. So DIY talk away! Haha.

Well then here's a snapshot from a large DIY thread I participate in....copied and pasted to here. The thread title is DIY LEDs-The Write-up but its a few hundred pages long :) I believe I would need 3 AI Sols to light my tank. I did this for slightly more than the price of 1. Ask away and I'm happy to answer....and excuse the bare tank...its a new tank build too :)


Thought some folks might be interested in some PAR readings from my build. Recap:
120G 4x2x2 Oceanic Tech tank
36" fixture
18 Cree CW
6 Cree NW
50 Cree RB
MW HLG 120-42B running the whites and 6 RBs
MW HLG 185-42B running 44 RBs

THERE ARE NO OPTICS ON THIS BUILD

Overall I am very happy and i think in the perfect range and in fact all my corals are responding very nicely...no burnout or bleaching! With optics there is no doubt the top of the tank would be too high. Thats not to say I couldn't add some 60 degree lenses on the very front row and the ends to focus a bit more on the sand and the sides of the tank.

The bottom row of measurements are on the sand next to the glass with the end readings in the corners so well away from the fixture. The ends of the center and top rows were taken just outside the fixture ends but the middle is under the fixture. I also am led to believe that the sensor reads the RB ~20% low due to the narrow spectrum but who knows.

Here they are
http://api.photoshop.com/v1.0/accounts/567068d3474345caa0cecf0bfe24becb/assets/b7c9fa463a774ae39b3e7bcdd022e9c3/renditions/1024.jpg?md=1309387979000

[luisagos]

For me, the LED system needs to be control by a controller, like a Profilux.
I need, want full control of everything attach to my aquarium, so it be control anytime, anywhere.

I think the only ones are AI and Pacific Sun that can be controlled by a controller?

I know Pacific Sun are coming out with some new models later this month.
Waiting to see what they have before I buy a my LED system for my new build (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2039381).

[snorvich]

For me, the LED system needs to be control by a controller, like a Profilux.
I need, want full control of everything attach to my aquarium, so it be control anytime, anywhere.

I think the only ones are AI and Pacific Sun that can be controlled by a controller?

I know Pacific Sun are coming out with some new models later this month.
Waiting to see what they have before I buy a my LED system for my new build (http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2039381).

Well, I know that those two can since I have both and I do use a Profilux.

[Bedroomgangsta]

I want to build a new DIY fixture soon and have been following EgKids build as he has the same setup I have been pondering. It is a supreme 24 3W cree LED w/ 60* optics on a 4.25"x23" drilled and tapped heat sink. He did dimmable drivers and price wise I would like to do constant for the health of my wallet and funds. Now would this setup from rapidled.com be enough lighting to keep softies/lps and maybe a few sps in my 40B? Should I choose different optics? Perhaps 80*? Worry about shadowing?

[brassmonkyballs]

I want to build a new DIY fixture soon and have been following EgKids build as he has the same setup I have been pondering. It is a supreme 24 3W cree LED w/ 60* optics on a 4.25"x23" drilled and tapped heat sink. He did dimmable drivers and price wise I would like to do constant for the health of my wallet and funds. Now would this setup from rapidled.com be enough lighting to keep softies/lps and maybe a few sps in my 40B? Should I choose different optics? Perhaps 80*? Worry about shadowing?

Would go with the 80 degree optics but it depends how high your fixture will be....if 8" or less you won't need any optics. I think that kit would be fine for what you want to do. by the way...go with the dimmable drivers....they give you infinite capability to mix your color....and I suggest you ask them to trade out for more RBs...like 16 RBs and 8 CWs...they'll do it no problem...great guys.

note also....DIY builds using dimmable drivers do connect to those with controllers every wants the ability to use.

[Felixc395]

Would go with the 80 degree optics but it depends how high your fixture will be....if 8" or less you won't need any optics. I think that kit would be fine for what you want to do. by the way...go with the dimmable drivers....they give you infinite capability to mix your color....and I suggest you ask them to trade out for more RBs...like 16 RBs and 8 CWs...they'll do it no problem...great guys.

note also....DIY builds using dimmable drivers do connect to those with controllers every wants the ability to use.

Well said, good advice. And I didn't know that about DIY controlling capabilities, interesting. Thanks.

[Felixc395]

And thank you brassmonky for those PAR readings and specs. It's interesting to see the difference between optics and no optics.

I'm also surprised that you can get such high numbers, without optics, over a 120 with only 74 LEDs. Proves how strong LEDs really are. Thanks for the information, it will benefit many people I'm sure.

And not a shabby tank in any respect either! Very clean, elegant, and beautiful :thumbsup:

[Felixc395]

Now for the most part, I've heard LED's are great. But there's still some that report color loss or browning.

I was wondering if this was due to either
- a large increase in PAR over their previous non-LED light that is just too much for the corals to take, resulting in fading.
- but I still can't figure out the browning part. I feel like at times this is a result of a non-light aspect as maybe water quality of flow isn't supposed to be.

Now LED's have been around a while, and I've also heard they don't cover the spectrum well. Based off some fantastic LED tanks, I don't believe it for a second.

But could someone clarify this to me? Does LED do an adequate job covering the proper spectrum, say an AI module for instance???

[x19]

The Vertex Illumina also has a controller, its a wireless dongle that you program from your computer.

[brassmonkyballs]

Now for the most part, I've heard LED's are great. But there's still some that report color loss or browning.

I was wondering if this was due to either
- a large increase in PAR over their previous non-LED light that is just too much for the corals to take, resulting in fading.
- but I still can't figure out the browning part. I feel like at times this is a result of a non-light aspect as maybe water quality of flow isn't supposed to be.

Now LED's have been around a while, and I've also heard they don't cover the spectrum well. Based off some fantastic LED tanks, I don't believe it for a second.

But could someone clarify this to me? Does LED do an adequate job covering the proper spectrum, say an AI module for instance???

I don't know about the browning but the bleaching is just too much light IMO. Before I went whole hog LED I bought a 14g cube and retro'd the hood solely for experimental purposes. Initially I had a 50/50 cool white/Royal Blue mix. The Royal Blues are in the 450nm range which we've learned is beneficial to our coral. i grew several monti caps which grew very fast, a branching hydnaphora, a couple chalices, and zoas like bam bam, eagle eyes, and some no names. All grew very very well...even fast. With the 50/50 mix the greens got very bright but the reds were not quite as vibrant. The chalices while growing lost a tinge of purple but the green rim on one really darkened up.

Earlier this year a friend brought over an ORA Tri Color Acro to put in it for a test. After a month the purple tips washed out to green but the thing kept growing. We became suspect that the color was too white so I took out half the whites a replaced them with the royal blues. A month later the purple tips came back, the chalices colored back up, and the bright greens got brighter. Now we had it figured out.

The Cree XPG cool whites (DIY, AI) are about 8000k temperature. When I did my 120g build I mixed in a few Cree Neutral Whites (~4000k) to throw some yellow into the mix and I went 2-1 Royal Blue to total white. I have since sold off the small cube and the pieces I had in there are part of my 120 and I can happily report that the tri color has really taken off and the purple has really exploded. The Chalice has doubled in size suddenly and colored up a nice purple with green rim and green eyes. Every SPS i picked up has colored up better than were they came from.

To me some zoas look very different though. Under blues they all look great but when my whites come on a few of them are not as vibrant but look healthy.

So with all that said I believe it really has to do with the power of the fixture with regards to bleaching and the color temp with regards to color.

I do not have 1st hand experience with the AIs but since they use Cree then I think highly of them but would opt for their 'blue' version which I think is the 2-1 blue to white which is what my experimenting over the last year has proven to be a winner for me on my DIY.

[Bedroomgangsta]

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

[Bedroomgangsta]

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

[Felixc395]

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

Go dimmable, that's for sure. Also 70 or 100 degree optics would spread the best without sacrificing PAR. And the tapped heatsink will probably save you some time, probably worth the extra money IMO.

[bamf25]

Well then here's a snapshot from a large DIY thread I participate in....copied and pasted to here. The thread title is DIY LEDs-The Write-up but its a few hundred pages long :) I believe I would need 3 AI Sols to light my tank. I did this for slightly more than the price of 1. Ask away and I'm happy to answer....and excuse the bare tank...its a new tank build too :)


Thought some folks might be interested in some PAR readings from my build. Recap:
120G 4x2x2 Oceanic Tech tank
36" fixture
18 Cree CW
6 Cree NW
50 Cree RB
MW HLG 120-42B running the whites and 6 RBs
MW HLG 185-42B running 44 RBs

THERE ARE NO OPTICS ON THIS BUILD

Overall I am very happy and i think in the perfect range and in fact all my corals are responding very nicely...no burnout or bleaching! With optics there is no doubt the top of the tank would be too high. Thats not to say I couldn't add some 60 degree lenses on the very front row and the ends to focus a bit more on the sand and the sides of the tank.

The bottom row of measurements are on the sand next to the glass with the end readings in the corners so well away from the fixture. The ends of the center and top rows were taken just outside the fixture ends but the middle is under the fixture. I also am led to believe that the sensor reads the RB ~20% low due to the narrow spectrum but who knows.

Here they are
http://api.photoshop.com/v1.0/accounts/567068d3474345caa0cecf0bfe24becb/assets/b7c9fa463a774ae39b3e7bcdd022e9c3/renditions/1024.jpg?md=1309387979000

You have the same tank as I have and you are running a very similar led build!! I have 13 cw, 13 nw, 4 blue, and 39 rb running of 5 eln's all retrofitted into a 48 inch fixture, no optics, about 4 inches over the water. Works awsome.

[brassmonkyballs]

You have the same tank as I have and you are running a very similar led build!! I have 13 cw, 13 nw, 4 blue, and 39 rb running of 5 eln's all retrofitted into a 48 inch fixture, no optics, about 4 inches over the water. Works awsome.

Awesome...4" off you are getting alot of PAR! In retrospect I wish I went with more nw to cw just because the cw are so baddass powerful and throwing a little warmer nw is probably pretty beneficial. I was playing around this evening and holding some 60 degree optics over certain LEDs and noting the difference which is shocking. When I wake up in the morning I'm going to put some on the front row only and only the RBs for my next experiment....get that penetration down to the sand! I don't need them but I have to experiment man! :)

[brassmonkyballs]

No optics at all? So just basically the white pad with the led on it? What would be best to get the most spread/least spotlight effect for my 36" tank on a 24" heat sink? Do you think going dimmable is the best right off the bat because I can control the color or if I did ask for more RB leds and less CW on a constant driver @ less cost would that be as effective? The cost is my main issue so Im trying to conserve, granted they pay for themselves in short time.

Also, would you recommend the drilled and tapped heat sink, or the one that is not? With a 15$ price difference is the D&T sink easier to put together or would I be fine with the solid one? I wanted to try and keep this under 250$ for the build and eventually add on to it, such as a controller, more led's etc...

I'm not using any optics on a large build and the fixture is 8" off the water and the tank is 24" deep. I suggest more RBs AND dimmable drivers. Dimmable drivers are a MUST in IMO. You will want to adjust the color mix...you just have to believe me on it. If anyone else here has experience they can chip in.

I don't recall how much that D&T heatsink cost but if you are a little bit handy and own a drill you can get the same size undrilled heatsink from heatsinkusa.com and drill it yourself. I don't tap anymore. I found that a #40 drill makes a perfect hole for a #4 sheet metal screw. They screw right in with no tapping. I'm pretty sure you could save a bunch of money that way. Tapping yourself is a major pain and i've done but this way is a snap.

If you want to use optics get the 80 degree but as I said before it really depends how high off the water your fixture will be.

[goby1kenobi]

Recap:
18 Cree CW
6 Cree NW
50 Cree RB
MW HLG 120-42B running the whites and 6 RBs
MW HLG 185-42B running 44 RBs


Good grief. Can you please translate? What are all the acronyms?

[brassmonkyballs]

Good grief. Can you please translate? What are all the acronyms?

Sure...that was copied from the DIY thread I posted in and we all use those acronyms...sorry.

The numbers are the quantities.

Cree is the LED manufacturer.

CW - Cool White is the color temperature (although there's multiple temps within cool white that the LED manufactures call Bins.....but we won't go there :) )

NW - Neutral white - another temperature

RB - Royal Blue - specific color that emits a wavelength in the 450nm range which is a good thing and provides actinic coloring

MW is short for Meanwell which is the manufacturer of the drivers (ballasts) we use to power the LEDs

HLG 185-42 or HLG 120-42 are the model of the drivers manufactured by Meanwell

Hope that helps....didn't want to get techy on this thread but just pitch in as a viable alternative.

[clowndude]

BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

[Bedroomgangsta]

Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

[Bedroomgangsta]

Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

[brassmonkyballs]

Thank you guys so much for the excellent input. I wouldnt mind hanging the fixture close to the surface but my only concern is I feel like I may have to hang it higher considering its a 36" tank with a 23" heat sink. Unless not using optics counteracts the spread by putting it that much closer to the surface...which in a sense would result in more PAR would it not?

You want a heatsink shorter than your tank. The LED spread around 100 degrees without optics so coverage is not really an issue unless you hang it high....in which case you need tighter optics to focus the light down. I like to go 4-6" shorter on each end of the fixture. So my 48" 120g has a 36" heatsink. Though I probably should have done 40 but its lit all around just some shadows on the ends from the rocks. Don't be too concerned about PAR...you will have more than you need. maybe a 28" heatsink for you.

Also, on heatsinkusa.com would I be better off getting a 8"x36" and spacing the LED's out more with 24 of them, or getting a 8"x24" and keep them closer together? Is it completely necessary to hold them in place via bolts/screws? Does the thermal epoxy work or is it just a PITA? Heatsinkusa.com has wicked cheap prices and with a little bit of work I could drill and tap it in no time for way less cost. Whats the best plan? Sorry about all the questions but this is my first DIY LED and I want it to be done right and not invest a bunch of money into a POS.

Keep the LEDs about 2" apart and each row about 3" apart...seems to always work well for me. Again....I don't tap I just drill a #40 hole and use #4 sheet metal screws with little #4 nylon washers under them which I get at Ace hardware. The thermal epoxy works fine but then think if you ever want to replace, remove, change colors, etc....you can't get them off (though some people will tell you a hammer and screw driver works for that which makes me cringe)...but its totally up to you....epoxy is the fastest way to put them on.

Take your time and ask the questions and it won't be a POS but rather a real nice light fixture.

[brassmonkyballs]

BrassMonkey, if you don't mind me asking what did the entire DIY project cost?

Sure its not like I got special places to get stuff from but I just hunt for the best prices.

With the sources I use I got all the LEDs for under $300, the drivers were around $110 each, and I think the heatsink was around $100 so call it $600 not counting the odds and ends of screws, fuses, wire, solder, etc which depends on what you have laying around...call it another $50 if you don't have any of it.

[Lipitor]

People are still using XR-E but every year CREE has something new it seems. XP-G and now XM-L.

Here is some data on the 3 main CREE models. The XR-E Q5 CW, the XP-G R5 CW, and the XM-L T6 Cool White

As you can tell, the new models use less power but put out more light. In the long run, they will be cheaper than the older models.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/Ranger69/lumen-cree.png

As you can see from the above graph, as more amperage is used, there is less and less light given out by the older CREE models. The XR-E Q5 at 1 amp puts out only 67% of what the XP-G CW would at 1amp and only 60% of what the XM-L CW. That means you have to use almost twice the number of XR-E CW to match an XM-L cool white. This is not taking into consideration how much voltage you have to pump into that little XR-E just to get 60% of the XM-L light which is show below.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/Ranger69/vf-cree.png

You can tell quickly by the graph as the amperage goes up, the XR-E uses much more voltage than the XP-G and XM-L. At 1 amp, the XR-E uses 3.7v which is 10% more than the XP-G and a whopping 23% more than the XM-L. That means if you have a 48V driver running at 1mp you can only put 12 XR-E CW or 14 XP-G CW or 16 XM-L CW. That means for the same cost of powering 12 XR-E CW which give you 2824.8 lumen you could be powering 16 XM-L CW which would give you 6208 lumens. See how quickly this adds up? Less power, more light, that is what LEDs are all about. This is why efficiency is so important. Every minute you have a non efficient LED wired up, it is costing you money.

Now this is just the CREE LEDs. Other non CREE LEDs are often much less efficient than the oldest CREE LED

Sfiligoi is the best pendant in the market now. They are using Cree LED and T5 combine (Hybrid). They also have RGB LED install in the fixture for the option. It can control by Apex or Profilux, it also comes with their SFILIGOI controller. It can control every thing as well as like AI controller. T5 & all LEDs are dimmable.

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/Ranger69/genesist55x2.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/Ranger69/GE-T5-150-4-1.jpg

http://i265.photobucket.com/albums/ii226/Ranger69/GE-LED-324-2.jpg

[Lipitor]

LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket (http://s919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/redfishnc/LED%20TESTING/?start=all)

here is the best thing you can read

[brassmonkyballs]

LED TESTING pictures by redfishnc - Photobucket (http://s919.photobucket.com/albums/ad39/redfishnc/LED%20TESTING/?start=all)

here is the best thing you can read

Lipitor that is an awesome link....i need to look at it closer but Thanks!

[moondoggy4]

Tagging along

[brassmonkyballs]

Good info you're adding here Lipitor. I made a Royal Blue only supplement bar for a friend who added it over his 150 with his T5s and it looks very nice and he's raving to anyone that will listen. So its a good point on that combo of LEDs with T5's.

The tricky part of the XMLs is that to get the most out of them you really have to up the current. True you can get more than an XPG at the same current but the cost difference doesn't justify it unless you push them....and then they are so bright I wouldn't know what to do with them. I know someone is just finishing up a build with some of them at 2000ma so it will be interesting to get his thoughts. He's actually using XPGs and XPE RBs as well.

[Felixc395]

Thanks lipitor, good stuff!

Anyone who needs help with ideas in LED's post them here! Let's keep these good conversations going. Anything LED related is welcome!!!

[bif24701]

Good info you're adding here Lipitor. I made a Royal Blue only supplement bar for a friend who added it over his 150 with his T5s and it looks very nice and he's raving to anyone that will listen. So its a good point on that combo of LEDs with T5's.

The tricky part of the XMLs is that to get the most out of them you really have to up the current. True you can get more than an XPG at the same current but the cost difference doesn't justify it unless you push them....and then they are so bright I wouldn't know what to do with them. I know someone is just finishing up a build with some of them at 2000ma so it will be interesting to get his thoughts. He's actually using XPGs and XPE RBs as well.

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

[Bedroomgangsta]

Yeah thats why I have been asking so many questions. I think I will go with no optics then and try to keep it a little closer to the tank. I may just drill the sink myself just as you said, seems easy and maybe with the little money I save on the sink I can add a couple more LEDs to my order :D

[Bedroomgangsta]

Can a meanwell/led's be controlled with a potentiometer or will that only work on the dimmable drivers?

[brassmonkyballs]

Can a meanwell/led's be controlled with a potentiometer or will that only work on the dimmable drivers?

You a dimmable driver AND a potentiometer

[Felixc395]

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

I believe LEDsupply.com has them. I'm not sure if I said that in this thread yet, so sorry if I'm repeating myself and being rude. That isn't my intention at all.

But I couldn't see a better DIY LED setup then with cree's and the XM-L is just really awesome.

If you build a fixture, make sure to post pics here, I would be more than eager to see! :thumbsup:

[Jerad]

I believe the cree bulbs from rapidled have 120 degree optics as default and not 100 degree

[brassmonkyballs]

I believe the cree bulbs from rapidled have 120 degree optics as default and not 100 degree

I think whites are 100degree and royal blues 120....

[brassmonkyballs]

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

Yes but they are $10 vs $5 for the XPG. That was my point in not being able to justify them. I'm not saying don't use them just for the cost difference they are not for me unless I ran them up in the 2000ma range. I'm not worried about life either because LEDs are rated for a very long life already. Keeping them cool is the key.

[Scott70454]

Hey guys,

I have been reading for about two days and come to the assumption to once again, ask the experts...

Current Set up =
29 Gallon Tank - Clownfish & anemone only
30L x 12-1/2" W x 20 T
2 (ea) T8 "white light" bulbs
2(ea) T5 "blue light" bulbs

LFS says I need a LED Moonlight strip too.... SO here is the question, my current set up is part of the hood so I don't really have anywhere to put another LED light Fixture. Please guys, can you point me in the right direction? I was under the assumption my current lighting set up was a good set up, but it does lack the luster of the color the LFS LED lighting provided.

Can anyone give me a solution that keeps my current setup, but provides a good "moonlight" alternative?


Scott70454

[reeferstace]

Can someone recommend a link for "LED's for dummies"? I know NOTHING about them except I may want to put them over my 300g. :)

[reefermad619]

Hey BMB. Got any actual power consumption reading for your build? There was a thread awhile back stating that some DIY rigs were using much more power that they should be. A friend of mine as a 24 LED setup using all 3 watt crees and his rig is pulling 125 watts of juice. I was just wondering if you experienced anything like this. Thanks.

[BigKahuna]

My LED journey is as follows:

I have my only current tank in my office so while I like the look of a fixture suspended over a tank sans hood I don't want people throwing stuff in the tank when no one is looking so I decided a hood is a must. I used to have a 3x48" VHO set-up which was fine but they got hot and raised my tank temp somewhat even with a fan and I hated having to swap out the bulbs when they reached their EOL. I added a Reef Brite blue 48" strip for a little actinic supplementation and loved the blue highlights it added so much I decided to go all LED and eventually added another 50white/50blue model along with a couple of big 36w 5500k PAR38's to add a little yellow balance to the decided blue look.

Recently I added a new Reef Brite XHO model 50/50 with the goal of eliminating the PAR38's but I found they actually work even better together because the shimmer coming off the PAR38's is nothing short of MH-like and the yellow cast give a more balanced look IMHO. The only problem I had was mounting the three RB's in my hood made it difficult to do any work in the tank w/o removing the hood. I came up with a solution that involved using the 3-way RB mount sliding on some aluminum T-Track held in place with some quick release cam locks so I can instantly slide the whole RB set-up back into the hood for more clearance when I want to and then slide it forward when done. It works so well in fact that I leave the lights far more forward than I had ever considered mounting them because the light looks better more toward the front angled back into the tank.

I really like having four distinct lights hooked up to my Neptune controller too. The blues are the first to come on (and last to go off), along with a fan to cool the hood. Then an hour later the standard grade 50/50's come on followed by the XHO's a little later and then finally the PAR's come on for a midday sun effect for about 5 hours. Then they all go off in reverse order.

I guess the whole point to my post is that how you start setting up your lights may not be how you end up and there is nothing wrong with building a component at a time and flesh it all out to your own taste. I couldn't be happier with how my lights all turned out but it did take a while to getting them where I wanted them to be.

[Felixc395]

Thanks bigkahuna, nice little review!

This is quite similar to my situation. I'm getting two AIs that I just ordered today and will be adding depending on how I like the look of two over a 75 gallon. Lets just say I'm really excited and am very anxious for them to get to my house! It's really an advantage over traditional forms of lighting that you can add modules and save money so easily.

[brassmonkyballs]

Hey BMB. Got any actual power consumption reading for your build? There was a thread awhile back stating that some DIY rigs were using much more power that they should be. A friend of mine as a 24 LED setup using all 3 watt crees and his rig is pulling 125 watts of juice. I was just wondering if you experienced anything like this. Thanks.

no i haven't measured it. What did he use for the measurement? Couple thoughts...assuming he used 2 Meanwell ELN 60-48 drivers....each one is 60 watts...2 X 60 = 120W so if he used all of it then yeah its possible...the other thing is do you know what Cree's he is using? are they XRE or XPG/XPE?

You have to take the 3 watt rating with a little grain of salt sometimes. If a Cree XRE were running at 3.5V and pushed to 1.3A thats really 4.55 watts, if that were what he was running at then 24x4.55=109 watts. SInce we don't know which Cree 3w he is using and what his parameters are its hard to say whats going on...but you can see theoretically its possible. But take that same rig and run it off one driver with 2 parallel strings of 12 at 700ma and you just halved the power.....

It would be interesting if he could measure the voltage and current of each string at the LEDs and compare that to whatever he used to measure the total...probably a kill-a-watt or something.

I'm using XPGs and XPEs and they tend to run about 3.1V at about 1A so around 3W times 74 is about 220W theoretically.

[fns]

I was wondering what the correlation between PAR and Lux. I assume the more lux, the more par, but I'm not sure.

Also, have there been any reports of those aluminum U-channel's used in place of heatsinks causing heat problems? I have access to a bunch of scrap sheets of aluminum, and was wondering if I could just cut strips and bend them to make my own U channels. If I do, what thickness is ideal, and how long should the fins be?

One more, I plan on using the ELN-60-48D and running 13 XM-L's in a series, and plan to dim with my Apex. Do I still use the 10v AC to DC power adapter to dial in my driver, or does the Apex take care of it?

Thanks!

[WingoLED]

Response in Blue

I was wondering what the correlation between PAR and Lux. I assume the more lux, the more par, but I'm not sure.
YES and NO. The NO part:- Lumens are based on eyes but our eyes are not linear reacting to the light energy in different color(spectrum) even though the light energy may be the same. To better indicate what human beings feel visually, we use a formula in the Lux meter to express them what we human beings think the brightness is. Now that goes for PAR too, but this time they are formulated to be used for plants' photosynthesis. So the reading is designed to reflect better what the plants reaction is. The YES part:- Unless the light is very tight in the spectrum like LED, most commercial lighting technologies are a mix of spectrum and thus both the human eyes react to some of them while the chlorophyll of the plant react to some of them too, even though not necessarily the same. So in real frequently we find that higher Lumens bulb also yield higher PAR. Problem becomes even more complex-the meter you use. A lot of PAR meters also register green significantly in their readings but as scientists will tell you they are not of much use by chlorophyll in plants(hence the Zoa in coral), so the PAR value for coral growth is also an rough collectively assumption(not really exact) but yet yielding close results to what we expect them to be.

Also, have there been any reports of those aluminum U-channel's used in place of heatsinks causing heat problems? I have access to a bunch of scrap sheets of aluminum, and was wondering if I could just cut strips and bend them to make my own U channels. If I do, what thickness is ideal, and how long should the fins be? To calculate the proper surface area you need to know the total power of your LEDs, the heat co-efficient of the heat sink material and ...... I would just try to over do it than doing the math. If it's an passive heat sink design, you should not have the fins too tall as it will create channeling. The thickness of the aluminum base is to help the initial heat sinking when the diode fires up. There is a lot of heat energy when the LED is fired up, so you want thicker base over thinner base to quickly transfer all the heat energy away from a focal point and then let the fins to re-transfer than to the air. I myself would not trust an U channel thing from Home Depot as a heat sink unless you are using a fan to make it an active heat sink.

One more, I plan on using the ELN-60-48D and running 13 XM-L's in a series, and plan to dim with my Apex. Do I still use the 10v AC to DC power adapter to dial in my driver, or does the Apex take care of it?

Thanks!

[bif24701]

Were can you get CREE XM-L LEDs? I googled it but got nothing but forum threads and stores that have CREEs but not XM-Ls. Please help, lol

[fns]

Were can you get CREE XM-L LEDs? I googled it but got nothing but forum threads and stores that have CREEs but not XM-Ls. Please help, lol
try LEDgroupbuy

[bif24701]

Goggled clay-boa and got a dead link,

This is the fifth time I've posted the question no real link, or shop. Please help....

[Felixc395]

LED supply. I believe I've mentioned this before...

http://ledsupply.com/creexml-w280.php

[Felixc395]

From what I understand however occupied run the XMLwith a lower current you can get more lumens with less energy add more life, correct? That is why I am looking for CREE XM-L LEDs

I believe LEDsupply.com has them. I'm not sure if I said that in this thread yet, so sorry if I'm repeating myself and being rude. That isn't my intention at all.

But I couldn't see a better DIY LED setup then with cree's and the XM-L is just really awesome.

If you build a fixture, make sure to post pics here, I would be more than eager to see! :thumbsup:

Yep. Maybe you skipped over this post, I do it all the time! So no need to worry, I'm not trying to be rude.

[brassmonkyballs]

Goggled clay-boa and got a dead link,

This is the fifth time I've posted the question no real link, or shop. Please help....

Yeah RC blocks the link for some reason so I hope I'm not violating something but if you type in as all one word without the quotes "led group buy" .com then you will not get the dead link. I'm just trying to pass on the best prices for Cree LEDs. I've used them many times.

[Felixc395]

Anyone who has an LED tank, please post pics for others' reference. We need some pics in this thread! And who doesn't love pics.

[fns]

ya i thought i fixed the link, but it kept changing it to clay boa. I think its because the site isnt a sponsor. maybe thats why they block it.

[fns]

this was my tank when I first set it up. Everything was moved form my 120 into the biocube. The 120 had 800w of radiums on it
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/fridaynightswings/photo.jpg

this is my tank 6 months later
http://i559.photobucket.com/albums/ss35/fridaynightswings/IMG_8976.jpg

[brassmonkyballs]

Nice

[Felixc395]

More info fns! Lights are??? That's more like it!

[fns]

Ya I just realized that I didnt say what lights I had on mine. I did this a while back, it has 10 Cree XRE col whites, and 14 Cree XRE Royal blues. I am running 4 buckpucks with a wired in potentiometer, so I can manually dim them. I also have 2 Kai domain UV leds in there. I'm not sure if they really do much, but it's kinda neat to see the tank with all the other lights dimmed down.

[Mental1]

Anybody have experience with this fixture?

http://www.championlighting.com/product.php?productid=73003&cat=1592&bestseller

[TheFishMan65]

Bridgelux are not as efficient as Cree so you will pay more for electricity. In terms of spectrum 2:1 white:blues IMHO will be too white. Also I would double check that the blues are royal blue not just blue. And finally they need to work on their math:
Power 300W (144x3W)

Oh the picture does not have 144 LEDs either, but that may just be the picture.

[brshriver]

I am doing a build for a 110. It is 60x18 and 24 inches deep with a really deep sand bed. It has been running for 5 years.

I Ordered a 10x52 heat sink, 52 RB (E line), 19 CW (L line) and 7 NW(L line). A Meanwell HLG 185-48a and a Meanwell 120-48A drivers. I also went with the pre-shaped self adhesive thermal adhesive pads to speed up the build I hopefully they can be removed with a scraper in the future if needed. If not, so be it.

Do I need two or three fans fans mounted on the heat sinks? Are people still doing that?

[roni]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I've got a 300 DD I'm setting up. I was going to go with T5s and probably still will but I was wondering how many AI sol modules I'd need to reasonably cover the tank. SPS would be concentrated in bommies immediately under the modules with the last 3" on each side completely clear of glass and about 6" in the front completely clear.

[bif24701]

Yep. Maybe you skipped over this post, I do it all the time! So no need to worry, I'm not trying to be rude.

That you Felixc, I got it, lol.

[cs12109]

I ran through a quick design for my 300 gallon tank LED system. Using the mid tank depth as a reference for the requried lux level I calculated the following:

Height over tank: 18 inches
Surface to Mid Tank depth: 15 inches
Distance to Mid Tank: 33 inches
Illumination Spot Size: 24 inch radius (assuming 40 degree optics (+/- 20 degrees))
Total lumens per LED: 500 lumens assuming CREE XM-L driven at 750 ma (Note I used slightly less than the 560 lumens for design margin)
Total Flux density: 430 lumens/m or 430 lux for a single LED
Number of LEDs required:
12 " spacing = 16 LEDs (doubles the Flux density to 860 lux due to overlapping radation pattern)
8" spacing = 36 LEDs (1290 lux)
4 " spacing = 144 LEDs (six times flux density to 2580 lux)


Now the question is what level of flux density do I need for SPS corals?
Also I need to account for the reduction in flux density for blue LEDs.

Any comments and/or recommendations would be appreciated.

[Felixc395]

Thanks for starting this thread.

I've got a 300 DD I'm setting up. I was going to go with T5s and probably still will but I was wondering how many AI sol modules I'd need to reasonably cover the tank. SPS would be concentrated in bommies immediately under the modules with the last 3" on each side completely clear of glass and about 6" in the front completely clear.

No problem. Thanks for posting! With a 300 gallon tank, it might tank quite a few modules. It's very hard to say... But if I were you, I would start with 4 modules and work my way up to 6 or even 8 if you really want that many. At first, you don't really need that many fixtures. Right now, I'm only going to use two modules until my tanks need expand. Eventually I'll use three or four, but not needed now. Hope this helps! Any other questions, just ask here!

[brassmonkyballs]

I am doing a build for a 110. It is 60x18 and 24 inches deep with a really deep sand bed. It has been running for 5 years.

I Ordered a 10x52 heat sink, 52 RB (E line), 19 CW (L line) and 7 NW(L line). A Meanwell HLG 185-48a and a Meanwell 120-48A drivers. I also went with the pre-shaped self adhesive thermal adhesive pads to speed up the build I hopefully they can be removed with a scraper in the future if needed. If not, so be it.

Do I need two or three fans fans mounted on the heat sinks? Are people still doing that?

I'm using 2 120mm fans mounted on top of my hood both blowing straight down onto the heatsink...works like a charm.

[brassmonkyballs]

I ran through a quick design for my 300 gallon tank LED system. Using the mid tank depth as a reference for the requried lux level I calculated the following:

Height over tank: 18 inches
Surface to Mid Tank depth: 15 inches
Distance to Mid Tank: 33 inches
Illumination Spot Size: 24 inch radius (assuming 40 degree optics (+/- 20 degrees))
Total lumens per LED: 500 lumens assuming CREE XM-L driven at 750 ma (Note I used slightly less than the 560 lumens for design margin)
Total Flux density: 430 lumens/m or 430 lux for a single LED
Number of LEDs required:
12 " spacing = 16 LEDs (doubles the Flux density to 860 lux due to overlapping radation pattern)
8" spacing = 36 LEDs (1290 lux)
4 " spacing = 144 LEDs (six times flux density to 2580 lux)


Now the question is what level of flux density do I need for SPS corals?
Also I need to account for the reduction in flux density for blue LEDs.

Any comments and/or recommendations would be appreciated.

i don't know how to use lumen output to correlate to coral growth but on page 1 or of this thread I posted PAR readings on my 120g and I have them dimmed back from those readings and growing SPS very nice.

[Felixc395]

Keep posting everyone! Keep it up!

[Felixc395]

I'm sure others have questions, pics, or comments to post! Don't be shy anyone!

I'll make sure to post pics when my 2 AI Sol blues get here on tuesday!

[madweazl]

I started a 20long build a couple weeks ago and want to use LEDs. I'm handy in the DIY world and wiring these up is no problem but I just dont know what lights are "right." At only 12" deep, it wouldnt seem like I'd need anything crazy in the intensity department but I just dont know. Is a 24" pendant wide enough to cover a 30" long tank?

My budget is ~$500 and I'd really like a dimmable setup (preferably one that is electronically controlled as I head to work before the sun comes up). What do I look for in LEDs? The LFS wanted to sell me Panorama/Stunners today but I knew nothing about them so I passed.

I'd like an SPS or two, same for LPS, and some stuff like toadstools and xenias. Oh, gotta have a small crocea in there. I had a 40 reef for about 10 years while living in AZ but took it down when I moved to CA so I have a fair amount of experience in the hobby. Appreciate any info, I'm just a bit overwhelmed in the LED department. I find the shimmer from them irresistible (had VHOs on my last tank).

[Felixc395]

I started a 20long build a couple weeks ago and want to use LEDs. I'm handy in the DIY world and wiring these up is no problem but I just dont know what lights are "right." At only 12" deep, it wouldnt seem like I'd need anything crazy in the intensity department but I just dont know. Is a 24" pendant wide enough to cover a 30" long tank?

My budget is ~$500 and I'd really like a dimmable setup (preferably one that is electronically controlled as I head to work before the sun comes up). What do I look for in LEDs? The LFS wanted to sell me Panorama/Stunners today but I knew nothing about them so I passed.

I'd like an SPS or two, same for LPS, and some stuff like toadstools and xenias. Oh, gotta have a small crocea in there. I had a 40 reef for about 10 years while living in AZ but took it down when I moved to CA so I have a fair amount of experience in the hobby. Appreciate any info, I'm just a bit overwhelmed in the LED department. I find the shimmer from them irresistible (had VHOs on my last tank).

Welcome! For your situation. I would recommend one AI module. Do you have a canopy? You could hang the AI module high with enough spread and you'll have no problems with PAR. Just turn the module sideways.

Anymore questions, feel free to ask. The AI's will give you control like you are hoping for.

[brassmonkyballs]

I started a 20long build a couple weeks ago and want to use LEDs. I'm handy in the DIY world and wiring these up is no problem but I just dont know what lights are "right." At only 12" deep, it wouldnt seem like I'd need anything crazy in the intensity department but I just dont know. Is a 24" pendant wide enough to cover a 30" long tank?

My budget is ~$500 and I'd really like a dimmable setup (preferably one that is electronically controlled as I head to work before the sun comes up). What do I look for in LEDs? The LFS wanted to sell me Panorama/Stunners today but I knew nothing about them so I passed.

I'd like an SPS or two, same for LPS, and some stuff like toadstools and xenias. Oh, gotta have a small crocea in there. I had a 40 reef for about 10 years while living in AZ but took it down when I moved to CA so I have a fair amount of experience in the hobby. Appreciate any info, I'm just a bit overwhelmed in the LED department. I find the shimmer from them irresistible (had VHOs on my last tank).

This DIY kit will over light your tank but they are dimmable drivers and you will be able dim them back and and mix your colors as desired.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-54/24-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

I would recommend this heatsink at 24" long.

http://www.heatsinkusa.com/categories/5.886%22/

My preference is to screw them down to the heatsink using a #40 drill bit and #4 x 3/8" sheet metal screws...no tapping required. If you like you can use the thermal epoxy supplied with the kit to glue them down but then you can't get them back off. If you want to screw them down Rapid will swap it for thermal paste.

You can do it for under $300 total and keep anything you like in the tank.

I just put my drivers on different timers but if you want it to ramp up and down here's a cheap purpose made controller for that purpose. You can run multiple drivers off one but you would need 2 if you want the colors to ramp at different times...this increases your total of course.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-Daylight-Lighting-Controller/Categories

Feel free to ask any questions that come to mind.

[madweazl]

This DIY kit will over light your tank but they are dimmable drivers and you will be able dim them back and and mix your colors as desired.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-54/24-Ultra-Premium-LED/Detail

I would recommend this heatsink at 24" long.

http://www.heatsinkusa.com/categories/5.886%22/

My preference is to screw them down to the heatsink using a #40 drill bit and #4 x 3/8" sheet metal screws...no tapping required. If you like you can use the thermal epoxy supplied with the kit to glue them down but then you can't get them back off. If you want to screw them down Rapid will swap it for thermal paste.

You can do it for under $300 total and keep anything you like in the tank.

I just put my drivers on different timers but if you want it to ramp up and down here's a cheap purpose made controller for that purpose. You can run multiple drivers off one but you would need 2 if you want the colors to ramp at different times...this increases your total of course.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-Daylight-Lighting-Controller/Categories

Feel free to ask any questions that come to mind.

I had found that website while searching last weekend and thought I had my mind made up to do it but wasnt sure about the length and number of lights. Saw the earlier posts on easier ways to mount them (ie the screws you mention). The drivers in the kit looked to be capable of power 14 LEDs (of the same type the kit ships with) but you only get 12, does these mean I could run less as well? If I run less, how will the spread be over 30"? Is 2:1 the generally consensus on blue to white (I've seen this mentioned in a few friends)? I dont care for the overly blue look this can create but realize this is done for the inhabitants vice my personal preference.

To answer the previous question, no, I do not have a canopy. I had planned on sort of unit like the SOL comes with (whether I build it or buy a setup like that).

[brassmonkyballs]

I had found that website while searching last weekend and thought I had my mind made up to do it but wasnt sure about the length and number of lights. Saw the earlier posts on easier ways to mount them (ie the screws you mention). The drivers in the kit looked to be capable of power 14 LEDs (of the same type the kit ships with) but you only get 12, does these mean I could run less as well? If I run less, how will the spread be over 30"? Is 2:1 the generally consensus on blue to white (I've seen this mentioned in a few friends)? I dont care for the overly blue look this can create but realize this is done for the inhabitants vice my personal preference.

To answer the previous question, no, I do not have a canopy. I had planned on sort of unit like the SOL comes with (whether I build it or buy a setup like that).

Yes those drivers clamp the voltage between 24v and 48v....they are constant current and adjust the voltage based on number of LEDs. So you can run less on them...no less than 8.

I was going to suggest you run 18 LEDs but then the 30" has me a little concerned on coverage as you suggest. Alot depends on how high you will mount the fixture. On my 4x2x2 120g I am running 4 rows of 18 and the fixture is about 8" above the water and am using no optics...(though I just added some 60 degrees to the front row only and on the blues only...as an experiment). Thats how I arrived at the 24 kit and 2 rows of 12 as a recommendation.

The higher you hang it the more spread you get so if you went with 18 LEDs and hung it up 12"+ I think you'll get plenty of coverage. If you're going to hang it higher then you need tight optics if only to prevent from lighting the room around the tank as much as the tank.

Then the next question is do you want to dim the colors separately (normally yes)...but you can use just one of those drivers and wire it in 2 parallel strings if you wanted and run them around 700ma. I made an actinic only fixture for a friend with 28 LEDs off one of those drivers. In this case i would recommend more RB to CW because you can't change them. If 2 drivers you can mix the color to your satisfaction.

[madweazl]

I want to get the LEDs closer to the tank to prevent light creeping into the room but the canopy can be designed to help mitigate that as well. I had planned on running 2 drivers and was even thinking about wiring in a few LEDs in the red spectrum (I've seen a few setups with these and it was very appealing to the eye). Speaking of drivers, how do you control them to produce an evenly graduated sun up/down scenario? It seems most people are just powering up a specific number/type of light vice reproducing a nice gradual effect?

[brassmonkyballs]

I want to get the LEDs closer to the tank to prevent light creeping into the room but the canopy can be designed to help mitigate that as well. I had planned on running 2 drivers and was even thinking about wiring in a few LEDs in the red spectrum (I've seen a few setups with these and it was very appealing to the eye). Speaking of drivers, how do you control them to produce an evenly graduated sun up/down scenario? It seems most people are just powering up a specific number/type of light vice reproducing a nice gradual effect?

That last link I gave you up above is a PWM controller for sun-rise/set. Cheapest way to do it short of a total reef controller. You would need 1 for each color if you wanted to say start sun up with blue only....

[MattyO]

FelixC395, I am waiting for a 72 bowfront to come in and have been looking at the AI Sol Blues... I would run them 8-14 inches AWL and mounted sideways. I am not sure about the shadowing due to only having 2 units plus the center brace but I will play with that and might have to order a 3rd unit. My question to you is, due to the bow (13 inches at the sides and 18 in the middle) I was thinking of playing around with the optics. I was thinking somehting like having the 70's in the on one end (the middle ends) and the 40's on the outside ends. I figure this will cut down on light spilling out and let me keep a clam/ a few sps in those outside areas and LPS in the middle of the tank. Anythought?

BTW you going with the standard optics?... Looking forward to your pictures!!

[Glo]

I want to get the LEDs closer to the tank to prevent light creeping into the room but the canopy can be designed to help mitigate that as well. I had planned on running 2 drivers and was even thinking about wiring in a few LEDs in the red spectrum (I've seen a few setups with these and it was very appealing to the eye). Speaking of drivers, how do you control them to produce an evenly graduated sun up/down scenario? It seems most people are just powering up a specific number/type of light vice reproducing a nice gradual effect?

driver with 1-10v dimmer can do gradual dimming. you will need a reef controller to make it auto. for leds, i would go with wingoled 's the revolution strips rs1.0 (http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/wingo-led/99975-led-diy-revolution.html) that has six cree xpe on them. I would use nanotuner's thomas research driver TRC-040S070DS (http://www.nanotuners.com/product_info.php?cPath=81&products_id=751).

2 x rs1.0 = $100
1 x 30" heatsink = $65
2 x TRC-040S070DS = $80
2 x fan and power supply = $30
total around $275 plus shipping

[madweazl]

driver with 1-10v dimmer can do gradual dimming. you will need a reef controller to make it auto. for leds, i would go with wingoled 's the revolution strips rs1.0 (http://www.manhattanreefs.com/forum/wingo-led/99975-led-diy-revolution.html) that has six cree xpe on them. I would use nanotuner's thomas research driver TRC-040S070DS (http://www.nanotuners.com/product_info.php?cPath=81&products_id=751).

2 x rs1.0 = $100
1 x 30" heatsink = $65
2 x TRC-040S070DS = $80
2 x fan and power supply = $30
total around $275 plus shipping

Is there any better info out there? His website is a waste of bandwidth.

[Felixc395]

FelixC395, I am waiting for a 72 bowfront to come in and have been looking at the AI Sol Blues... I would run them 8-14 inches AWL and mounted sideways. I am not sure about the shadowing due to only having 2 units plus the center brace but I will play with that and might have to order a 3rd unit. My question to you is, due to the bow (13 inches at the sides and 18 in the middle) I was thinking of playing around with the optics. I was thinking somehting like having the 70's in the on one end (the middle ends) and the 40's on the outside ends. I figure this will cut down on light spilling out and let me keep a clam/ a few sps in those outside areas and LPS in the middle of the tank. Anythought?

BTW you going with the standard optics?... Looking forward to your pictures!!

I'll try my best to help. I am going with the standard optics. And I'm actually going to be mounting them about 3" off the water line. Eventually I'll use three modules. And the thing is with my aquascape, I really only need to light 30" of rock. So, I'll only need three modules at most, but two for right now. Your optic specs sound good to me, however I don't know how the spread will be until I get my own units.

The great thing about AI for your tank is that you can use three if you want mounted sideways, kind of like this,

------ -------
------ -------
------
------

To get spread for your entire bowfront if two do not suffice. Hope this helps, and I'll make sure to post pics as soon as I can.

[Felixc395]

The diagram thing didn't work, so sorry... But I hope you kind of understand what I meant. My bad.

[Mental1]

So to get proper coverage over a 180g it would require 6 AI units at $529, rails at $79.95, controller at $79.95, and hanging kit at $34.95 soooo $3,368.85? Hmmm 10 times the cost of replacing T5's -- short term of course.

I am wondering if I could get away with 5 -- one end of my tank has the overflow but there are corals growing there. Just a big waste of money putting lights over the overflow. This is a peninsula tank so the overflow is like an island at one end of the tank. It would be better to put strips of lights on each side versus across the top of the tank on the overflow end. Actually I am thinking 4 and a couple of strips? Would that work?

[boxer385]

I'm new with the LED systems but i have a 60x36x27, i would think four would be plenty for you. I'm looking at the Al's and i'm going with 3-4 max from what i hear these modules put out a ton of light, i don't want to waste money. My system is SPS dominate.

[Mental1]

I just don't know what to do about the overflow end that's all. I have SPS and LPS -- just wondering what to do. My constellation is going through bulbs like crazy so I am abit fed up with it. Probably would have to have the lights pretty high to begin with so the corals don't get burned.

They say on the sites to put one every 12 inches but you don't need it up against the end I guess.

[mrfi57535@msn.com]

like all you guys and girls looking to upgrade,i also would like to cut down my lighting bills,i have age tank 72x30x30.75 deep like to upgrade to cree XM-L i have a canopy,like to keep the lights high 18inchs min,sps tank,like other posts need to know length width drivers and how many leds and spacing like to use dimmable drivers,and how many heat sinks,and optics,thanks for any and all help

[brassmonkyballs]

Does anyone familiar with the AI controller have any info on type of output control and connection method? Is it 0-10v or PWM? I'm wondering why I couldn't hook this controller up to my DIY fixture.....

[madweazl]

I really like the look of this (http://cgi.ebay.com/Aquarium-LED-120w-Reef-Live-Coral-Hydroponic-Light-Hood-/150578875038#vi-content) enclosure but is the light setup any good?

[madweazl]

Do the Panorama Pros produce enough light for a shallow tank? Would be nice to buy a couple every couple of weeks. Where can you find hoods less the light fixtures? I've been digging all over and cant find them.

[Mental1]

Okay -- I just had a chat with the guy at Aquacave and ordered 3 AI fixture kit but I got 3 12 inch set of hanging rails so that I can hang the lights the long way over my tank versus the way the longer rails make you hang the lights. As my tank is a peninsula most of my corals are in the center. They will come next week... bye bye aquatinics fixture.

[Glo]

Is there any better info out there? His website is a waste of bandwidth.

it's so true that most members in that forum talk more than action. hehe. did you download the two pdf instruction files in the first post. it tells you how to make different setups with one to two RS1.0. i found them very helpful. the cree xp-e can be found direct from cree website http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxp-e.pdf

for the ebay 120w, isn't it over kill for such a small tank? how are you going to handle the light glaring at you if you were to set it high? it does not have lens to limit the light spill. also. how are you going to create the gradual sunset and sunrise with it?

[Glo]

Okay -- I just had a chat with the guy at Aquacave and ordered 3 AI fixture kit but I got 3 12 inch set of hanging rails so that I can hang the lights the long way over my tank versus the way the longer rails make you hang the lights. As my tank is a peninsula most of my corals are in the center. They will come next week... bye bye aquatinics fixture.

keep us posted, i want to hear how well 3 units of ai will perform over a 180G.

[Mental1]

It actually looks like I will be getting them on Thursday .. so sooner than I thought! Will keep you posted.

[brshriver]

Ok. The LEDs came today from the group buy site. Very pleased.

The solder pads are smaller than I expected. What gauge wire are people using for their led interconnect?

[brassmonkyballs]

Ok. The LEDs came today from the group buy site. Very pleased.

The solder pads are smaller than I expected. What gauge wire are people using for their led interconnect?

22 gauge. Tin the pads 1st, then tin the wire...will solder like a charm.

[brshriver]

Thanks!

[Felixc395]

It actually looks like I will be getting them on Thursday .. so sooner than I thought! Will keep you posted.

Yes, please keep us updated! Pics are always better!

And I get my two sols tomorrow! Im so pumped!

[igadget56]

Anybody think these would work? http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-PAR-Bulbs/Categories

I have a 125 gallon 72" long 24" deep. I'm wondering if these would work and
how many I would need? You could make a rack with sockets in it for however
many you need. That way you could buy one every couple weeks. Say I started
with 2 That Way maybe I could get my first piece of coral. If they would work
how far from the surface should they be. Probably a Hair brain idea but I would
try it anybody thought I could get by with six of these. Could always split them
later. Anybody give me your thoughts.

[TheFishMan65]

Does not say what type of lenses are on them. BUT from what I understand PAR bulbs tend to be more spotlight than most fixtures. So if you want even coverage you actually need more LEDs than with most fixtures. No if you only want a few corals or in limited location maybe that would work for you.

But a standard 72 will need 50-100 3 watts LEDs (according to the DIY numbers) that would be 7 to 14 of these PAR 38s.

[brshriver]

So what have DIY folks done for splash shields to prevent salt spray from getting on the electronics? I was thinking of using a few standoffs from the heat sink and mounting a sheet of acrylic to it that is an inch all of the way around larger than the eat sink.

[TheFishMan65]

That would work, or mount them 2 or more off the surface and uses lenses.

[fns]

Anyone have any experience with the Thomas Research drivers? I saw on their website they make a driver thats 0-10v dimmable in the 200w Series (TRC-200S140DT). I was looking to try and wire one of these up with some XM-Ls in series. Also, if at all possible, I want to avoid wiring in parallel since I really don't want to balance out strings, use fuses, etc etc etc. Any good high voltage drivers out there that would let me do this? Also, what are the draw backs to using a high voltage drivers besides the obvious that if there were a short, I could get zapped pretty good. On that note, could I run a wire down from the heatsink to a ground to prevent me from getting zapped if I touch the heatsink?

[madweazl]

it's so true that most members in that forum talk more than action. hehe. did you download the two pdf instruction files in the first post. it tells you how to make different setups with one to two RS1.0. i found them very helpful. the cree xp-e can be found direct from cree website http://www.cree.com/products/pdf/xlampxp-e.pdf

for the ebay 120w, isn't it over kill for such a small tank? how are you going to handle the light glaring at you if you were to set it high? it does not have lens to limit the light spill. also. how are you going to create the gradual sunset and sunrise with it?

I did read the 2 .pdf files. No clue on those setups, that is why I'm asking. Looks like to get what I really want, I'll just have to build it myself. Gonna start mocking things up in the next few days. Thinking I'll go with the Profilux II entry level setup to control the lighting but I just started researching it.

[TheFishMan65]

fns,
not just a good zap, but maybe death. kcress did a good post on the danger of high voltage. But basically the way I (and I think most) took it was that anything over 50 volts we need to be really careful with. So IMHO that would me covering each connection, grounds, fuses (still, but really really very fast blow), and who know what else. Thanks, I will just balance the strings. But some here did a real nice one, but he understood all the risks.

[brshriver]

On that note, could I run a wire down from the heatsink to a ground to prevent me from getting zapped if I touch the heatsink?
It is a good idea to ground the heat sink no matter what.

[brassmonkyballs]

Danger is the thing and not recommended...just use Ohms law and solve for I, use 1 Ohm, and change the voltage between 48V and 200V and you will see the danger.

You could get zapped pretty good with 48V....200V can be fatal.

Anyone have any experience with the Thomas Research drivers? I saw on their website they make a driver thats 0-10v dimmable in the 200w Series (TRC-200S140DT). I was looking to try and wire one of these up with some XM-Ls in series. Also, if at all possible, I want to avoid wiring in parallel since I really don't want to balance out strings, use fuses, etc etc etc. Any good high voltage drivers out there that would let me do this? Also, what are the draw backs to using a high voltage drivers besides the obvious that if there were a short, I could get zapped pretty good. On that note, could I run a wire down from the heatsink to a ground to prevent me from getting zapped if I touch the heatsink?

[brassmonkyballs]

It is a good idea to ground the heat sink no matter what.

it won't matter

[Glo]

I did read the 2 .pdf files. No clue on those setups, that is why I'm asking. Looks like to get what I really want, I'll just have to build it myself. Gonna start mocking things up in the next few days. Thinking I'll go with the Profilux II entry level setup to control the lighting but I just started researching it.

probably due to my technical background, i understand the diagram pretty alright. you just have to follow mode 3 and you will get 6 royal blue and 6 white xp-e on 2 tr dimmable drivers. you then connect the control wires of the drivers to your profilux to get your sunset and sunrise effect.

[Glo]

Anybody think these would work? http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-PAR-Bulbs/Categories

I have a 125 gallon 72" long 24" deep. I'm wondering if these would work and
how many I would need? You could make a rack with sockets in it for however
many you need. That way you could buy one every couple weeks. Say I started
with 2 That Way maybe I could get my first piece of coral. If they would work
how far from the surface should they be. Probably a Hair brain idea but I would
try it anybody thought I could get by with six of these. Could always split them
later. Anybody give me your thoughts.

I have seen a demonstration in a trade show, audience can actually play with the meter and the competing bulbs in various situtations. the par value of the one in your link is no where near the par38 from wingoled. some differences are as high as 40 percent! the selling price are similar. these lights actually go on track light heads that can tilt and swivel, so I would just go to home depot and a get track and end plugs and get track light heads from wingoled because they have a brushed nickle color track head matching the light for only $18. you should be ok with 8 of them. you will need a minimum of 12 to go with rapid.

[Felixc395]

Good topics! Keep it up!

Just got my AI sols today! They're really awesome! I'll post pics ASAP.

[Glo]

So what have DIY folks done for splash shields to prevent salt spray from getting on the electronics? I was thinking of using a few standoffs from the heat sink and mounting a sheet of acrylic to it that is an inch all of the way around larger than the eat sink.

make sure you make the hole on the acrylics bigger so that it can move around. the splash guard of my first build with standoffs cracks because acrylics expands upon absorbing moisture.

[Crazy_Beaver]

Hello everybody!I am on the planing stage of my new setup!

I am digging the dimension of ELOS XL but dont have the money so probably I ll diy my tank based on the dimensions of ELOS !

What fixtures would you suggest for a tank this size!Going to be an Lps/sps tank!

Thanks in advance!

[Felixc395]

Hello everybody!I am on the planing stage of my new setup!

I am digging the dimension of ELOS XL but dont have the money so probably I ll diy my tank based on the dimensions of ELOS !

What fixtures would you suggest for a tank this size!Going to be an Lps/sps tank!

Thanks in advance!

So what are the dimensions? Do you want DIY or a full fixture?

[vder]

I have been reading all the LED threads and it’s time for me to upgrade my lighting system. The AI fixtures look great. The DIY route also looks good. Going the DIY route what would I need for my tank which is listed below? Thanks in advance.

Current Set up =
135 Gallon Tank – Tangs and some angel fish & mixture of corals
60L x 18" W x 24 T
12 bulb T-5 39 watt Aquactinics Fixture

[Amnezik]

Is 48 Cree LED too much for a 55 gallon (30x18x24) with ratio 1:1 and 4 UV ??

[TheFishMan65]

Amnezik, I have 48 over a 75 at half power and they seem ok. Get dimmable drivers and you will be able to make it work. 36 might work. Lenses also play a role, but I am not sure what kind yet.

[brshriver]

Originally Posted by brshriver
It is a good idea to ground the heat sink no matter what.

it won't matter

Grounding the heat sink will not help you if you touch a hot wire, but it is still a good idea. In a corrosive environment with lots of salt spray and potential for things to corrode and short out, grounding the heat sink ensures that you will never get shocked from touching it if something shorts.

[brshriver]

make sure you make the hole on the acrylics bigger so that it can move around. the splash guard of my first build with standoffs cracks because acrylics expands upon absorbing moisture.

Thanks! I would not have thought of that!

[Crazy_Beaver]

So what are the dimensions? Do you want DIY or a full fixture?

Oups sorry forgot to mention Elos 120XL
so dimension are 48Lx31WX20H

I am looking for a full fixture as my electronic skills are not that good!The usnit must be available in europe as I come from Greece and I have a budget of 1000 euros!

So far I have checked key led that comes to a total of 700 euros postage included!

Any suggestions

[Felixc395]

I'd go AI, I love mine. Thoseare great dimensions! Sweet. Aquaillumination will probably be more than 1000 euros, but I'm not positive at all really. You could get away with three unit hung higher at $1600 or so...

[Felixc395]

So far I have checked key led that comes to a total of 700 euros postage included!

Any suggestions

I've heard mixed reviews of the KEY fixtures. But their is a model I believe with Cree that might be promising, you never know.

[Crazy_Beaver]

I'd go AI, I love mine. Thoseare great dimensions! Sweet. Aquaillumination will probably be more than 1000 euros, but I'm not positive at all really. You could get away with three unit hung higher at $1600 or so...

I am looking into these and I am really diging them!They are considered to be one of the best choices out there and this is reflected on the price !:eek1:

I am trying to get the best possible quote to my door!


I've heard mixed reviews of the KEY fixtures. But their is a model I believe with Cree that might be promising, you never know.

I am talking about the cree model!The guy that runs them talked about the k3 48 wide model surrounded by two sps bars!



I know there are quit a few people using them in the UK with very good results!They have a thread in UR

Thanx for taking the time to answer!

[WingoLED]

I've heard mixed reviews of the KEY fixtures. But their is a model I believe with Cree that might be promising, you never know.

Besides the controller, I think Key is better than AI. The LEDs are spread more than the AI thus giving more even intensity over the tank. They have more metal and the heat dissipation is so good that I have never heard my fan turning on.

I modified mine with optics. Their newest model should come with them.:headwallblue: I bought them one month too early.

The programming of Key is very confusing but nevertheless work.

[Felixc395]

Crazy Beaver, go with the AI's! They will not let you down and they will make you very, very happy! :)

[Jerrick]

I have read, read, read, read, about LED and have found so MANY options! one thing that works for one does not for another.......So I know know one will know for sure but just wondering if anyone could give their opinion on this light..

http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-120W-provide-natural-sunlight-seaweeds/dp/B0058RXPOS/ref=pd_rhf_p_img_1

I will first try one over a 29 gallon and if I have success will put two over my 65. I have nothing in the 29 so can experiment my 65 has now 2- 150W MH and 2 30W blue Actinic....and all coral types, Softie, LPS, SPS...

Thanks for your suggestions in advance....

INFO on LIGHT http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0058RXPOS/ref=dp_otherviews_4?ie=UTF8&s=garden&img=4

[TheFishMan65]

I wish they said whose LEDs. They say 3 watt, but I wonder because later they say 630 ma or it looks like it. So 3 watts / 630 ma is 4.76 volts. If this is true sound like real old technology. Most are much better. The old model Cree (XR-E) is only 3.5 volts at 700ma. Now maybe they are not running at full power. Oops they are 3 * 55 would be 165 watts. So 120 / 55 / .63 is 3.46 volts. Ok reasonable. The only last thing I can identify is lux of 2200 or 40 per LED. Lux is lumens/area. So that means 40 lumens/square meter so unless we are talking spreading it over3 square meter (seems large for a fish light) they sound pretty inefficient.

That is my best analysis. Hope it helps.

[Felixc395]

I wish a high quality fixture would drop down to that price, but I don't see that being high quality really. I would stay away from that light if I were you.

[boxer385]

With all that i have seen it is not doubt that i will be going with AI LEDS.
I'm going to start off with 3 units and eventally end at 4 for my system
250DD gal.

[Felixc395]

Sounds great boxer! You'll love them! Make sure to post pics and keep us updated!

[SammyJ916]

I have experimented with, and built many LEDs and hands down aqua illumination is the best, people talk about spread not being good I have 2 of them on a 120 hanging from my canopy sideways and they are awesome, with plenty of coverage!

[kevinrf]

How many AI's would you need for 24x24x18?
1 or 2?

[Felixc395]

How many AI's would you need for 24x24x18?
1 or 2?

1 hung a reasonable height over the tank. Could always turn it sideways, but not might do a great deal better.

[kevinrf]

1 hung a reasonable height over the tank. Could always turn it sideways, but not might do a great deal better.

Thanks!

[Mental1]

Anyone heard anything about the long term impact about the lack of UV? A reef friend said that after 2 years SPS can start to fade because they longer have to protect against UV? Anyone else heard anything about this? His point was that you have to supplement with T5?

[TheFishMan65]

I have never heard that UV is needed in a way I took as definite. Lots of comments like yours. However, even with MH much/most/all of the UV is blocked by glass/quarts filters not sure exactly how this works but you get the idea. Did your friend have problems?

[ctreefer]

I have read, read, read, read, about LED and have found so MANY options! one thing that works for one does not for another.......So I know know one will know for sure but just wondering if anyone could give their opinion on this light..

http://www.amazon.com/Aquarium-120W-provide-natural-sunlight-seaweeds/dp/B0058RXPOS/ref=pd_rhf_p_img_1

I will first try one over a 29 gallon and if I have success will put two over my 65. I have nothing in the 29 so can experiment my 65 has now 2- 150W MH and 2 30W blue Actinic....and all coral types, Softie, LPS, SPS...

Thanks for your suggestions in advance....

INFO on LIGHT http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/images/B0058RXPOS/ref=dp_otherviews_4?ie=UTF8&s=garden&img=4

I've seen this listed on Ebay as well by the same seller and other sellers with the same light. Their description is very confusing. The listing and initial specs state 3W led's (55 total x 3W = 165) but later in the listing it lists the description as 2W led's (55 total x 2 = 110).
I sent the seller a question regarding this but didn't get an answer but lo and behold I just looked at their latest auction and the 2W description has been removed so I'm still not sure....

[Mental1]

I have never heard that UV is needed in a way I took as definite. Lots of comments like yours. However, even with MH much/most/all of the UV is blocked by glass/quarts filters not sure exactly how this works but you get the idea. Did your friend have problems?

I will have to check with him to see if it was anecdotal -- I know he personally does not have any LEDs but he does aquarium maintenance.

I understand what you are saying about MH -- the same with T5s I guess. I don't know what to think. Do I need to add T5's into the LEDS?

[TheFishMan65]

I don't know. I don't think so. IMHO we are rally just coming up on the 2 year mark for LEDs. Yes, they have been out longer, but not many and not very reliable IMHO.

[Crazy_Beaver]

Hey guys.anyone using the pacific sun metis?is pacific sun getting good reviews?any known problems?

[Mental1]

I don't know. I don't think so. IMHO we are rally just coming up on the 2 year mark for LEDs. Yes, they have been out longer, but not many and not very reliable IMHO.

Well I will see if I can get more details. I was supposed to see him this afternoon but we missed each other so next week I will ask.

[Felixc395]

I would have to argue that there are reliable LED fixtures such as AI, vertex, acanlighting, pacific sun, reeftech...

Quite a few nowadays that really have some proven track records. But everyone has different opinions, that's just the way it is.

[Mental1]

I am so stoked to put up these LEDs. I finally have time to sit down and play with the controller. It is fun. They got to get those hanging rails to me! The cool thing is that you don't have to worry about shading or raising and lowering the lights as you do when you change bulbs, you just have to play with the intensity. I am sure someone here has gone from T5s to AI's -- if you did -- what did you start your intensities with?

[Felixc395]

I didn't go from T5, but I started my AI's at 35% at the max. I'm very afraid of how bright things can be! I prefer my corals not fried!

[reefermad619]

I thought everyone might find this info useful. Shows the lumen output of different models of Cree LEDs and at different currents.
http://flashlight-wiki.com/Cree

[anoob]

A noob question. I'm looking at ELN-60-48D specifications and I see that it says:

Input Current: 1.2A/115Vac 0.7A/230Vac

On the output side, we have max load of 1.3A x 48V = 62W. On the input you'd think the amps would be much lower. But it goes 1.2A x 115V = 138W. Now, maybe I don't get it right, but it seems to me there are some 76W being consumed by the device itself!? Please let me know what's wrong with my calculations (I know this can't be true, they say 88% efficiency).

[WingoLED]

I thought everyone might find this info useful. Shows the lumen output of different models of Cree LEDs and at different currents.
http://flashlight-wiki.com/Cree

Pretty handy summary!

[ggrillo]

I'm upgrading to a 55 and am on the fence between LED and a TEK T5ho fixture. Has anyone been using LEDs for more than a year? I've read that they start out great but at about the one year mark the corals usually being to die off.
Also with LEDs the color separation you get really drives me crazy lol! Would it be a good idea to get something like solid cool white PAR38 bulbs and supplement with actinic T5's like you would with MH lights?

[Felixc395]

Has anyone been using LEDs for more than a year? I've read that they start out great but at about the one year mark the corals usually being to die off.
Also with LEDs the color separation you get really drives me crazy lol! Would it be a good idea to get something like solid cool white PAR38 bulbs and supplement with actinic T5's like you would with MH lights?

I'm not sure where you read that, but that is quite innacurrate...

And by color separation do you mean in the shimmer? That does take a little getting used to, but LED's are well worth it IMO!

[Felixc395]

Double post

[WingoLED]

I'm upgrading to a 55 and am on the fence between LED and a TEK T5ho fixture. Has anyone been using LEDs for more than a year? I've read that they start out great but at about the one year mark the corals usually being to die off.
Also with LEDs the color separation you get really drives me crazy lol! Would it be a good idea to get something like solid cool white PAR38 bulbs and supplement with actinic T5's like you would with MH lights?

I would do the reverse if I were to go a combo.

White and pink with T5 and Actinics Blue/Royal Blue with LEDs.

[helitaiwan963]

Hey guys,

I have a buddy that works at a place that works with High intensity led's. He says they are about 3watts each but i have yet to find out more details on what led's he has. He says if i found out how many i need and what type, he can make me a fixture for my tank for pretty much next to free...

I'm starting to read more about LED's so i'm wondering what setup would you guys recomend for my 29gal standard nano reef? Right now i have softies only but would love to have a fixture thats capable of supporting SPS/clams. I'm only running 72watts of T5 lighting right now. with 1 bulb of 10k, 1 bulb of 12k, 2x 460nm actinics

My main questions:

-how many LED's would i need if they are 3watts each
-whats a good blue/white combo
-what "k" rating should the whites be and should i be lookign at about a 450nm blue?
-how high would i want to mount these lights?
-Should i be looking into optics? if so, how many degrees?

I'm also wondering whats a good place to get heatsinks for the fixture? my friend can make the fixture, but nothing else like the casing or anything. just the LED's and wiring.

and the question above has me wondering. How longs do LED's last before they need to be replaced?


Thanks
Eric

[eferna]

Nobody recommending Orphek

http://www.marinedepot.com/24_Inch_Orphek_Power_Reef_PR156_LED_Light_Fixture_24_Inch_LED_Light_Fixtures-Orphek-UG1111-FILTFILDTF-vi.html

[brassmonkyballs]

Hey guys,

I have a buddy that works at a place that works with High intensity led's. He says they are about 3watts each but i have yet to find out more details on what led's he has. He says if i found out how many i need and what type, he can make me a fixture for my tank for pretty much next to free...

I'm starting to read more about LED's so i'm wondering what setup would you guys recomend for my 29gal standard nano reef? Right now i have softies only but would love to have a fixture thats capable of supporting SPS/clams. I'm only running 72watts of T5 lighting right now. with 1 bulb of 10k, 1 bulb of 12k, 2x 460nm actinics

My main questions:

-how many LED's would i need if they are 3watts each
-whats a good blue/white combo
-what "k" rating should the whites be and should i be lookign at about a 450nm blue?
-how high would i want to mount these lights?
-Should i be looking into optics? if so, how many degrees?

I'm also wondering whats a good place to get heatsinks for the fixture? my friend can make the fixture, but nothing else like the casing or anything. just the LED's and wiring.

and the question above has me wondering. How longs do LED's last before they need to be replaced?


Thanks
Eric

It extremely difficult to answer your questions not knowing what the LEDs are. Every manufacturer is different. If its Cree vs a Chinese like FEDY the answers are different

The blues should be Royal Blue @ 450nm

Depending on the K rating of the white the ratio to RB varies tremendously.

You should ask you friend for some more information...what make are the LEDs, what are the specs, what does he have available to work with?

[Felixc395]

Orphek really seems like a big spotlight. It's PAR is great, but very focused! I also don't like how they are not controllable and they have huge ballast boxes!

[TheFishMan65]

Felix, not trying to start a big discussion, but to clarify. IMO there are reliable fixtures now, but few that exist from 2 years ago (what with patents and a few poor designs). The question of UV being needed and not showing up for 2 years is a question that I don't think can be answered yet.

[eferna]

There have been a lot of good reviews on the orphek and yes the price is steep compared to others, but the PAR rating on them is just amazing. the PR-156 has about 60 LEDs with a 70-30 of white to blue and can be customized. They have been working really hard to market themselves as a leader in LED lighting. Not too sure about how long they have been in business an all, but their product out now kicks some butt.

[AC2020x]

I am making a DIY fixture using cree's from Rapid LED. I've done a lot of research over the last couple weeks and I think I finally have just about everything I need figured out. I got a heatsink from heatsinkusa and have created a hanging fixture for it.

The biggest thing I have left to decide before ordering is what combo of LED's I want. I am getting 24 LED dimmable kit to go over my 30" 29g tank. This comes with 2 mean-well dimmable drivers.

Currently I'm thinking 14 RB which I can put on 1 driver and run at 750mA. Then I want 10 whites. (Here is where it gets tricky) I've heard that adding in some neutral or warm whites helps a lot with the color spectrum and making certain corals more vibrant. I was thinking of getting 6-8 CW and the other 2-4 neutral or warm white. The neutral whites only go up to 1000mA so that will limit my CW as well if I put them all on the same driver.

Then I am going to get a moonlight driver where I can run 2-4 RB LED's at 350mA. I am also considering getting another moonlight driver to add 2 RED LED's to the mix to vary the spectrum. I've heard that the red can make some colors stand out more.

Let me know what you think and what you would suggest!

Thanks,
-AC

[brassmonkyballs]

I am making a DIY fixture using cree's from Rapid LED. I've done a lot of research over the last couple weeks and I think I finally have just about everything I need figured out. I got a heatsink from heatsinkusa and have created a hanging fixture for it.

The biggest thing I have left to decide before ordering is what combo of LED's I want. I am getting 24 LED dimmable kit to go over my 30" 29g tank. This comes with 2 mean-well dimmable drivers.

Currently I'm thinking 14 RB which I can put on 1 driver and run at 750mA. Then I want 10 whites. (Here is where it gets tricky) I've heard that adding in some neutral or warm whites helps a lot with the color spectrum and making certain corals more vibrant. I was thinking of getting 6-8 CW and the other 2-4 neutral or warm white. The neutral whites only go up to 1000mA so that will limit my CW as well if I put them all on the same driver.

Then I am going to get a moonlight driver where I can run 2-4 RB LED's at 350mA. I am also considering getting another moonlight driver to add 2 RED LED's to the mix to vary the spectrum. I've heard that the red can make some colors stand out more.

Let me know what you think and what you would suggest!

Thanks,
-AC

Sounds like you've got it figured out pretty well with the CW to RB ratio and right on with the NW, the right drivers, etc. I haven't used reds so let us know how it works out.

[AC2020x]

The neutral whites only go up to 1000mA so that will limit my CW as well if I put them all on the same driver.



Sounds like you've got it figured out pretty well with the CW to RB ratio and right on with the NW, the right drivers, etc. I haven't used reds so let us know how it works out.

Ok will do. I've heard from some people who run them that it makes a huge difference as to a few colors that it brings out.

Also I was wrong about the Neutral whites.. They can be driven up to 1500 mA but the Warm White is only up to 1000. I'm having a tough time trying to decide what to use. Because the options are so limitless I guess I'll just need to choose and see how I like it.

[brassmonkyballs]

Ok will do. I've heard from some people who run them that it makes a huge difference as to a few colors that it brings out.

Also I was wrong about the Neutral whites.. They can be driven up to 1500 mA but the Warm White is only up to 1000. I'm having a tough time trying to decide what to use. Because the options are so limitless I guess I'll just need to choose and see how I like it.

On my 120G I'm using 18 CW, 6 NW, & 50 RB...to give you an idea...I like a 20,000k look but its not uncommon for me to mix it differently depending how I feel and I turn off the whites on timers twice a day for 30 minutes. Since I work from home when not traveling I look at my tank too much :)

You never mentioned what size tank you were putting these over.

[Felixc395]

What size tank AC2020X? And when you finish your light, make sure to post pics and keep us updated!

[AC2020x]

Actually, it is mentioned a few posts back but it just blends in with the other numbers if your not looking for it.

It's a 29g tank.

I'm going to create a DIY thread in the DIY section. I'll link to it on this forum as well once it is up. Currently all I have done is the heatsink and a fixture for it. I plan on ordering the rest of my stuff from rapid LED later this week!

[brassmonkyballs]

Actually, it is mentioned a few posts back but it just blends in with the other numbers if your not looking for it.

It's a 29g tank.

I'm going to create a DIY thread in the DIY section. I'll link to it on this forum as well once it is up. Currently all I have done is the heatsink and a fixture for it. I plan on ordering the rest of my stuff from rapid LED later this week!

Yup..its there...I missed it...sorry 'bout that! Should be good.

[daplatapus]

I have to find it now (my computer crashed and am on the wife's computer) but I saw a write up on light spectrum and from what I gathered, algea growth is dependant (aside from proper nutrients etc in the water) from the red end of the light spectrum. I had assumed from this, excluding as much red from a light fixture would have been a good thing. As soon as I get my computer back up and running (I did book mark the site) I'll post it here and you can make your own assumptions. Or moybe it's not enough to worry about, not sure.

[blind1993]

do you have to use 2 different drivers to dim the 2 light colors seperatly?

[Felixc395]

You certainly can. That's easy with DIY just for convenience.

Daplatupus; that link would be helpful. I just grew se brown algae a week ago under my AI's, so the full spectrum is certainly there. I now installed a GFO reactor, so there's no algae, but that's not the point.

Red is important for red corals, covering the spectrum insures this. Not to be rude, but I'm confused. Are you saying LED's are better because they may reduce algae growth, or they lack the red spectrum, which could be seen as either good or bad....

[WingoLED]

do you have to use 2 different drivers to dim the 2 light colors seperatly?



Yes you do.

[brassmonkyballs]

You certainly can. That's easy with DIY just for convenience.

Daplatupus; that link would be helpful. I just grew se brown algae a week ago under my AI's, so the full spectrum is certainly there. I now installed a GFO reactor, so there's no algae, but that's not the point.

Red is important for red corals, covering the spectrum insures this. Not to be rude, but I'm confused. Are you saying LED's are better because they may reduce algae growth, or they lack the red spectrum, which could be seen as either good or bad....

My understanding is red is the 1st thing stripped off by the water in the ocean...if memory serves me correctly. I too have a link somewhere that explains this. Will post when I find it.

[TheFishMan65]

Yes, and red promotes algae growth, but some people think that their coral look better with a little red. It is really personal choice on color. Most people are adding a lot of royal blue to make the corals pop. They pop some under sunlight, but not like our tanks :).

[AC2020x]

Yes, and red promotes algae growth, but some people think that their coral look better with a little red. It is really personal choice on color. Most people are adding a lot of royal blue to make the corals pop. They pop some under sunlight, but not like our tanks :).

Maybe after I get my lights and tank set up, I can do an experiment to see if using a few Red LED's changes what i'm seeing algae wise or coral growth/ health wise in my tank.

Quite honestly since I won't use too much red I don't think it will make a huge difference. But it would be interesting.

This is one of the reasons I like LED's so much too! I can get a moonlight driver for $10 and 2-4 red osram lights from RapidLED and just hook them up onto my existing heatsink/lightfixture. Then easily remove them if unwanted. Everything is sooooo customizable.

[daplatapus]

You certainly can. That's easy with DIY just for convenience.

Daplatupus; that link would be helpful. I just grew se brown algae a week ago under my AI's, so the full spectrum is certainly there. I now installed a GFO reactor, so there's no algae, but that's not the point.

Red is important for red corals, covering the spectrum insures this. Not to be rude, but I'm confused. Are you saying LED's are better because they may reduce algae growth, or they lack the red spectrum, which could be seen as either good or bad....

Yes, I was under the impression that reducing the red end of the spectrum would reduce algea growth, making LED's a good choice. But as all those using MH and other light sources that provide full spectrum lighting can attest to, managing water quality and using RO/DI water controls this too. It's just one small link in the chain. Keep in mind though I'm really new to this as well and am still doing my own research on using LED's for my light hood (which is where I am leaning).
Check out this site:
http://www.gizmology.net/LEDs.htm
It's not the one I was refering to earlier but gives some good info on the spectrums' of LED's that I found interesting and helped me understand them a bit better.

[Amoore311]

I just got my custom built tank in and am looking into LED's for lighting this thing. I was originally looking into T5's, but if I can manage to make my own fixture I should end up with a better performing light at a cheaper price.

I need some help in regards to pricing this thing out. I am no where near "knowledgeable" in regards to electrical engineering. From what I've read it looks like basic soldering is all that is needed.... I think I can handle that. Are there instructions anywhere on how to wire this stuff up?

My next question is my tank is not a conventional sized tank. It is 36" x 37" x 18". How many leds and what size heat sink should I go with? I hate to just bust into the thread asking for a shopping list.... but like I said, I'm new to this LED thing.

I've looked into a full LED prebuilt fixture, but at $1700ish minimum.... I think I can build something for much cheaper.

Edit:

Forgot to add... I have an Aquacontroller APEX I will be using on this tank. Is there any way to control a DIY fixture with the APEX?

[JustinM]

Hi,

I just finished building my frame for a stand that is going to be used as a frag tank. Gotta get some birch plywood and paint to finish that. Then I am going to build an acrylic frag tank measuring 24x24x10.

I wanted to put halides on it, but I am having a heat issue with T5's so I am leaning towards LED's, plus the wifey likes the idea of LED's. Could anyone suggest decent LED lighting please? I can build things so a DIY would maybe work, but a fixture would be best. I appreciate any help.

Justin

[TheFishMan65]

There is a link to my home page with a summary of the DIY LED build process. Read it and if you have time the whole thing (if not the later ones) and some of the links to other builds. That will give you a good idea of what is going on.

[Amoore311]

From the prelimary information I've gathered, I'd be looking at 120-130 LEDS if I were to build this myself....

That doesn't sound right for a tank that's only 18" tall.

My tank is 36"x37"x18" for reference. I need to be able to keep sps anywhere in that tank.


Any insight?

Also, fixture wise. How do the AI's, Maxspects, etc. do with spreading light width wise?

[TheFishMan65]

I calculated 90-110. This is what the DIYers would recommend with 1 LED for every 12-15 inches of surface area. There are two issues: coverage and penetration. I agree for a 18 inch tank you don't need penetration, but you have a lot of area to cover and to avoid spotlighting you need more LEDs. I am doing a 150 cube for a friend and we are trying 72 now. 48 did not give good coverage and had some dark spots.

[brassmonkyballs]

I calculated 90-110. This is what the DIYers would recommend with 1 LED for every 12-15 inches of surface area. There are two issues: coverage and penetration. I agree for a 18 inch tank you don't need penetration, but you have a lot of area to cover and to avoid spotlighting you need more LEDs. I am doing a 150 cube for a friend and we are trying 72 now. 48 did not give good coverage and had some dark spots.

+1....around 90

[reefermad619]

I read somewhere that the formulas for led coverage are based on the older LEDs and not xpgs. I think it was wdzm. Who said it but don't quote me. I believe he said one could get away with using about 30% less LEDs when using the newer more efficient versions.

[TheFishMan65]

In the XR-E days the rule was one for every 10-20 square inches. XP-Gs came out and somewhere I really don't know who started it number of around 1 LED per

20 square inches fish only
18 softies
15 LPS
12 SPS
10 Hard core burn your corals

I don't remember the exact numbers, but they are I think they are in the summary (see my home page)

[Amoore311]

Thanks for the info!

This is the kind of thing that confuses me though lol. Took me a couple hours to find the recommended amount of LED's.... and it turns out the information was 1 or 2 generations outdated >_<;;

[brassmonkyballs]

In the XR-E days the rule was one for every 10-20 square inches. XP-Gs came out and somewhere I really don't know who started it number of around 1 LED per

20 square inches fish only
18 softies
15 LPS
12 SPS
10 Hard core burn your corals

I don't remember the exact numbers, but they are I think they are in the summary (see my home page)

On my 120g 48x24x24 I ended up using 74 total XPE and XPG which is 1 every 16 sq-in and I have them dimmed. (48 x 24)/16 = 72...had to add a couple more to have balanced strings. My acros are mid to high and flourishing, montis mid to low and doing great.....zoo's, brains, plate low. Fish don't care.

[skyline377]

I ran across this on ebay what do you guys think??? The price seems good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9O5UUSt-GQ

[boxer385]

hey guys what is being use to hang the fixture doing a DIY, still trying to weigh between a Dyi and manf fixture?

[Felixc395]

I ran across this on ebay what do you guys think??? The price seems good.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W9O5UUSt-GQ

Not sure about that one, there needs to be more info...

hey guys what is being use to hang the fixture doing a DIY, still trying to weigh between a Dyi and manf fixture?

The same way you would hang a modular fixture, I believe just the two point pendant style kit.

Let's keep the questions coming! Other than questions, let's get some pics, comments, everything! This is an everything LED thread so don't be shy, post some stuff!!! :)

[skyline377]

[QUOTE=Felixc395;19089637]Not sure about that one, there needs to be more info...



I email him for more info and am still waiting for some answers

[Felixc395]

Perfect, please tell us when you find out! :)

[skyline377]

I also found these guys. For the price I think it's cheaper than DIY


http://www.aquastyleonline.com/products/KEY-LED-K3-Bridgelux-version.html

[brassmonkyballs]

hey guys i was perusing Rapidled.com and if anyone is looking to retro a 29g biocube or similar they have a steal of a deal coming this week. It includes everything you could possibly need including heatsink, dimming drivers, and even pre-cut and stripped wire. I already did my cube and spent more than this. For $200 this is a great deal and would also light a 29L too IMO.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-DIY-Retrofit-Kits-cln-Nano-Kits/Categories

Thought I'd pass it along for those thinking DIY on something small...this will be about an 1 hour of work to put together.

[AC2020x]

hey guys i was perusing Rapidled.com and if anyone is looking to retro a 29g biocube or similar they have a steal of a deal coming this week. It includes everything you could possibly need including heatsink, dimming drivers, and even pre-cut and stripped wire. I already did my cube and spent more than this. For $200 this is a great deal and would also light a 29L too IMO.

http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-DIY-Retrofit-Kits-cln-Nano-Kits/Categories

Thought I'd pass it along for those thinking DIY on something small...this will be about an 1 hour of work to put together.

Wow your not joking.... it really does come with everything that you need! I just ordered LED's from them for my standard 29g. I spend over $300 and didn't even get my heatsink from them. Of course I did get a 24 LED kit and dimmable drivers and a PWM controller.

This is def an awesome deal for anyone with a 29g biocube!

[DonaldLL]

I placed an order for a 72" x 30" x 20" tank. This will be rimless open top with max of 36" from fixture to water level. I like AI Sols. My question is how many do i need and do I line them up end to end across the 72" length or side by side?
I know the AI recommendation is 6 fixtures; do you agree with this estimate? And what about optics? Wouldn't that affect how many fixtures?

[Redsox Nation]

I currently have a 29g Bc and have been thinking about getting the Reef Brite LED's

Have been checking these out and are curious to know who has them and your thoughts about them? Are they worth the price? did your coral excel w/these? I am thinking about getting a 15" 3w LED antic and possibly a 15" 3w white....any idea what the par readings are for these??? any help/feedback is appreciated


or do you think that this route would be better?
http://www.rapidled.com/servlet/the-DIY-Retrofit-Kits-cln-Nano-Kits/Categories

[TheFishMan65]

The DIY will be cheaper, but I think 3 of the 15 inch RB would probably be all rights. I did not see who made the LEDs so it is hard to tell about efficiency, but I expect the DIY will also use less electricity.

[Redsox Nation]

The DIY will be cheaper, but I think 3 of the 15 inch RB would probably be all rights. I did not see who made the LEDs so it is hard to tell about efficiency, but I expect the DIY will also use less electricity.

the DYI kit has 10 RB Cree XP-E and 10 cool white Cree XP-G led's.

[TheFishMan65]

Yes, and three 18 inch have 18 LED. What are you trying to ask?

[Redsox Nation]

Yes, and three 18 inch have 18 LED. What are you trying to ask?

you said you did not see who made the LED's for the DYI kit, also I am looking at the 15" Reef Brights so it actually has 12 led's not 18 in each strip. The DYI has 20 3w Cree led's, the reef bright xho's have 12 led's and I would get 2 strips totaling 24 leds....hope this explained it, if not then I misunderstood what you were getting at

[TheFishMan65]

The 15 inch version only has 6 LEDs (I don't know who makes THESE LEDs) according to the web site I saw. So I did three sets (3 x 8 = 18) to get close to the DIY number.

[brassmonkyballs]

There's some 60W Cree units being made out of China lately. Looks like this person is importing them http://www.amazon.com/SWC-CREE-DIMMABLE-LIGHT-AQUARIUM/dp/B004KJKDJU

Here's another configuration and better pricing
http://www.ocreef.com/ocreef_60_watt_cree_silo_high_power_aquarium_led_light_fixture

can get them direct from here but don't know about shipping cost
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/477318671/Hight_quality_60W_CREE_LED_Aquarium.html

Seem to me they are all made in same place...same connections, same dimming box, same LED count, same words, etc...actually they look real nice going by the pictures. Personally i would contact the alibaba link and get shipped cost to US. This is where they are coming from anyhow.

[Redsox Nation]

There's some 60W Cree units being made out of China lately. Looks like this person is importing them http://www.amazon.com/SWC-CREE-DIMMABLE-LIGHT-AQUARIUM/dp/B004KJKDJU

Here's another configuration and better pricing
http://www.ocreef.com/ocreef_60_watt_cree_silo_high_power_aquarium_led_light_fixture

can get them direct from here but don't know about shipping cost
http://www.alibaba.com/product-gs/477318671/Hight_quality_60W_CREE_LED_Aquarium.html

Seem to me they are all made in same place...same connections, same dimming box, same LED count, same words, etc...actually they look real nice going by the pictures. Personally i would contact the alibaba link and get shipped cost to US. This is where they are coming from anyhow.


have you or anyone else used that site before "Alibaba.com"??????? Not so sure how trust worthy that really is

[Rxfoote]

have you or anyone else used that site before "Alibaba.com"??????? Not so sure how trust worthy that really is

I order a fair amount from it(not lights, but other Tech. related stuff) Kind of like our version of Amazon... - You have to be careful, have gotten burned before and had items held at customs for months due to patent issues. However, I continue to order.

[skyline377]

Here's another configuration and better pricing
http://www.ocreef.com/ocreef_60_watt_cree_silo_high_power_aquarium_led_light_fixture

I ordered 2 of these units and should be here next week I'll let you guys know how it turns out on my 72 gallon

[brassmonkyballs]

have you or anyone else used that site before "Alibaba.com"??????? Not so sure how trust worthy that really is

I've used Alibaba. Never had an issue. Seems like just a place for all the China companies to sell their wares. You can find incredible stuff there to be honest. You name it and you can find it there.

[brassmonkyballs]

Here's another configuration and better pricing
http://www.ocreef.com/ocreef_60_watt_cree_silo_high_power_aquarium_led_light_fixture

I ordered 2 of these units and should be here next week I'll let you guys know how it turns out on my 72 gallon

Excellent...keep us posted.

Did you happen to ask what current they are driving them at?

[skyline377]

Excellent...keep us posted.

Did you happen to ask what current they are driving them at?



No I didn't, I was just browsing on ebay and happen to see those guys list a few on ebay for a little cheaper than they post at the site and cheaper than the same ones but with a different name on amazon so I pull the trigger. Just in case that is not enough for my mix reef 72 I got in contact with another person on ebay that made his own LEDs and brought it from him locally.


http://cgi.ebay.com/9x3W-20-expansible-LED-Aquarium-Reef-light-12-000K-/110728238742?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item19c7ead696

[impur]

I could use some advice on an led fixture for my frag tank i'm installing inline with my display. Its an 18x18x16, and i'm looking for the best value to light it. I can put SPS at the top of the tank no problem. Is there something that is going to be a better cost/value than 2 par38 bulbs? I'm looking at about $200 shipped for 2 of those, but i've also been looking at these 120w fixtures from china on ebay.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquarium-Coral-Reef-Tank-balck-Blue-LED-Grow-Light-120W-/160637678287?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item2566c072cf

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Aquarium-Coral-Reef-Tank-LED-Grow-Light-120W-Blue-White-/270780957644?pt=LH_DefaultDomain_0&hash=item3f0bcd83cc

for about $170 shipped which use 3w leds, have fans and look great. I realize its china and you get what you pay for but i'm looking to keep cost down and even if one led goes out and that scraps the whole sheet you still have a nice enclosure w/fans for DIY.

My other option is an led fixture sold by a local lfs which looks just like the evolution and reefkoi fixtures, but i'm looking at about $300 for those.

[fns]

I might be buying a 210, and am still thinking LEDs. I want to make 3 pendants (one over each section), and use 16 XM-L's on each powered by a ELN-60-48-D. I also want to run 60 XP-E's in parallel off an HLG-185-48B. I am still unsure what degree of optics I want to use considering the tank is 30" tall. Any suggestions? Would this be enough light to grow SPS at the bottom of the tank? I also plan on dimming it all with an Apex. Any advice and direction would be much appreciated. Thanks!

[TheFishMan65]

If you place 16 XM-Ls and 60 XPE over each section I don't think you will need optics and I would expect SPS on the bottom.

I believe it was DWZM that measures in metric crap tons, but that sounds like a metric crap ton of light.

[fns]

I meant to say 16 XMLs and a total of 60 blues total, so 20 blues over each section. Im starting to think that might look too white.

[TheFishMan65]

That was why I thought 60 blues which is almost 4:1 which I think is about the right mix for XM-Ls. Of course it depends on the current of the XM-Ls.

[fns]

I wanted to run them at 1A.

[TheFishMan65]

They should be ok at 1 amp if you have good heat sinking.

[fns]

ah, ok. I also have another question. I have a friend who owns a fish store. He has 63 30g long tanks (48WX12DX12H). Theyre lit right now by a single T5 bulb. He wants to eventually replace these with LEDs. The lights are about 12"-18" off the water. He isn't trying to grow corals, he just wants to light them. What is the most cost effective way to light them sufficiently? He has thought about stunner strips, but I'm not sure if that will be enough light for the tanks suspended at that height. I was thinking of a constant current driver, and one long heatsink with no fans. Any recommendations?

[MADtanks]

So I bought all my LED's a while back and had been lazy to put them together, but a few weeks ago i drilled all my heatsinks, and finally put on all the LED's. I have 3 total heatsinks with 40leds on each one, but my question is for my eventual system(210 standard 72X24X27ish) what optics should i run? I have all 60s right now but i feel like that might be too narrow?

I hung them over the tank empty and i feel liek there is just a spotlight right in the middle of each opening lol about 24X24 opening each. Would i be better off removing optics for the LED's in the middle and leaving the 60* optics on the 2 outer rows? or switch over to all 80* optics?

5 rows of 8 LED's :) on a 16X7

total of 120 LED's I thought that the 16X7 Heatsink would be enough to get coverage for my 24X24 openings but looking at it now i fear that maybe I got the wrong optics. Or maybe i just didnt raise the lights high enough, currently at about 11.5" from the water surface. In my Frag tank at about 18" i bleached almost all my SPS, so i switched back to the 250W MH.

Thank you for your time.

[TheFishMan65]

60s at 11.5 is a little tight. I prefer raising them with optics, because I think this gets more of the light in the tank and worst case they need to be turned down.

7 inches to cover 24 sounds iffy. If you remove the optics how does it look.

[MADtanks]

Hey Fishman, I appreciate the reply! I honestly have not removed the optics yet, but i did remove some at the end. Later i realized that i shoudl have removed more fromt he middle instead. So I have actually been thinking of putting my canopy up on the ceiling. The canopy is 11" high and i have yet to trim it so options are still open since I am no where near done with setting up the tank. I guess that explains why my SPS were not so happy when i had the fixture over the frag tank lol. So maybe i will rig something to try and raise the light temporary to see if it gives me mroe coverage. How high do you think i would have to raise it to get a little more coverage with the 60s?

Thanks again.

[TheFishMan65]

If you can get the LEDs 24-36 inches up, I think that would be enough.

[MADtanks]

I think i will have just about that 24" above the tank.... I will try and make a rig with some 2x4s and see how much coverage there is at the bottom of the tank at that point...

Maybe i can also use my wall in the basement and just back the light up until I see a 24X24 ish circle? might be easier than me trying to make a crazy rig lol, I want to setup the 210 already aghhh lol

[fns]

If je moves the LEDs up that high, will it affect the PAR quite a bit? I was planning on doing a deeper tank like that but I still wanted to be able to grow SPS on the bottom of the tank.

I know the higher you get the less PAR you have. Is it worth keeping the LEDs closer to the water without optics? Or is it better to have them on and have them higher?

Sorry if I hijacked your question.

[TheFishMan65]

IMHO you get more light in the tank with optics, but you also get less side light so corals may grow differently then you are used to.

Here is my reasoning. LEDs by themselves have a spread of 130. Or about 65 degree on one side. So an LED 5 inches up spread the light over about 8.6 inches. That is almost an 18 inch tank as you go down a lot of the light hits the glass and may or may not be reflected. Now with a lens you can plan (sort of) to have the 18 spread at any point in the tank. You may get dark top corners or lower par at the bottom, but I believe more of the light makes it into the tank.

[MADtanks]

Thanks for the info Fish, I didnt have time to test the distance with the lighting yesterday since my buddies brakelines cracked in the middle of the highway last night. Emergency brakeline repair lol....

I find it interesting how you explained the cone and growth pattern of corals..... Its like i knew that the light spread is like a cone but never really thought about what would happen when the corals gets close to the beginning of the cone(less light) lol. Now I see why all the pictures i see of the cone/tank diagrams always have the base of the cone around the center of the tank. Thanks for the info again.

[mke07]

I have a Mr. Aqua 17 gal rimless. it's dimensions are 24 x 12 x 14. I am trying to figure out if a 1 ecoxotic par 38 is good enough or do I need 2? If i get 2 then i am leaning towards the kessil 150w fixture. what does everyone think and i thank you for your replies

[TheFishMan65]

I would think at least two for that tank. What do you want keep in the tank?

[wonrib00]

Those that added red LEDs, how are things looking? How many reds did you add? I was thinking, if you put each color on it's own driver, you could dim the amount of red, just like you would for the RB or CW. Same goes for green. I am not a herp fan, but I know reptile people have to use UVA and UVB bulbs to mimic the sun to help reptiles get the VitD they need to absorb Ca. I wonder if adding a UVA flood lamp would help in any way.

[chris3_16]

I will be tagging along

[wonrib00]

I have been looking around the Cree site, and it is not so user friendly on an iPhone. I am looking for something that tells me the age of the LEDs, which are older(assuming less efficient and larger LEDs), and which are newer. Where do the XP-Es fit into the mix?

[Will Haider]

what would you guys recommend for a 90 gallon sps reef (48x18x24) thanks guys

[TheFishMan65]

wonri
XR-E -> XP-E -> XP-G -> XM-L I think is the progression of CREE LEDs. I may have the XPs backwards, but I don't think so.

[TheFishMan65]

Will,
I would suggest 48-72 LEDs. About 1/3 Neutral and 2/3 blue/. With the blue do about 1"5 standard blue to royal blue. That is what I would try if I did a new build.

But lots of questions. What do you want to keep? How high above the tank? What color do you like? To think of a few.

[homegrownREEFER]

Im planning to make a DIY fixture soon for a 75 gallon. Not much in there now but Im planning to have anemone and some corals down the road. I was thinking of making the fixtures with 24 LEDS per side. I was thinking of 12 RB, 6 CW, and 6 NW, all with 80 degree lenses possibly without lenses since it will be real close to the water but i heard you get better PAR with lenses. Also throwing in maybe 2 or 3 LEDS per side for moon lights. Is this combination good? Would it be worth it to throw in a few green and red LEDS? Thoughts on this?

[TheFishMan65]

I would recommend 4 Blue 12 RB and 8 NW. Try and raise it a foot and use 80 degree lenses. 2 to 3 CREE will be too much for moon light IMHO.

[homegrownREEFER]

I would recommend 4 Blue 12 RB and 8 NW. Try and raise it a foot and use 80 degree lenses. 2 to 3 CREE will be too much for moon light IMHO.

So you think I shouldn't even bother with CW, Red, or Green LEDS? This combo won't make the tank look to blue? For the Moonlight's I was thinking of the Royal Blue Moonlights from Rapid, I believe they are 1 watt thats why I was thinking 2 per side. Thanks!

[TheFishMan65]

I would not worry about CW, Red, or Green. My experience is CW and RB, and NW and RB. I liked the NW and RB (I built for someone) better. I am reading a little regular blue is good.

Those sound like good moon lights.

[gibbus123]

I'm thinking of changing my t5s to 3 kessil a150w. Would they be any good for a SPS tank with 42"x24"x24" dimensions? Or are 2 AI Sols still better?

[wrxreefer823]

This is the thread I've been looking for! I'll definitely be tagging along... I'm in the market for a new fixture, due to the fact that the daylight circuit of my T5's is very tempermental, and more often than not, I walk in the door from work to just my actinics on. Needless to say, I need to do something, and FAST.

I'm definitely leaning towards a set of AI Sol Blues... I'm at a cross roads here, between staying with T5's (but running a 6 lamp instead of 4), going with a MH/T5 combo, or making the dive into the world of LED's. The only thing thats holding me back is this... I have a 56g "column", and it is 30" deep. I know I would need two Sol's to cover each side, but my question is, will it penetrate the water to the sand effectively? I have roughly a two inch sand bed, so it would need to go down 28 inches...

Thanks!

[SPotter]

This is the thread I've been looking for! I'll definitely be tagging along... I'm in the market for a new fixture, due to the fact that the daylight circuit of my T5's is very tempermental, and more often than not, I walk in the door from work to just my actinics on. Needless to say, I need to do something, and FAST.

I'm definitely leaning towards a set of AI Sol Blues... I'm at a cross roads here, between staying with T5's (but running a 6 lamp instead of 4), going with a MH/T5 combo, or making the dive into the world of LED's. The only thing thats holding me back is this... I have a 56g "column", and it is 30" deep. I know I would need two Sol's to cover each side, but my question is, will it penetrate the water to the sand effectively? I have roughly a two inch sand bed, so it would need to go down 28 inches...

Thanks!

I think you will be fine. I have a friend that is using 6 of them on 84x24x30 and they are mounted 22" above the water line. He has clams on the sand bed and they look amazing. He also added some T5's for purple bulbs to supplement the color. The Sol Blues alone won't give you full spectrum.

[wrxreefer823]

Ahh... thank you very much, I did not know that. Is there a Sol that will give you the full spectrum? Saltysupply has a package on two Super Blue units, controller, cables, hanging kit, etc... I was under the impression that they would supply a full spectrum, judging by their fancy little graph.

[wrxreefer823]

Also, the tank is roughly 30 wide... would two be enough?

[SPotter]

The lights will give your corals what they need to grow and they will grow like weeds but the visual appearance that we see, the sol won't give the pop to the colors that t5's will give you. Many of the newer led units are incorporating RGB leds to try and create the same spectrum as t5's. As far as coverage.....it might be a stretch on a 30" wide tank. I would email AI and see what they think about the coverage. Typically each unit covers a 24x24 area.

[wrxreefer823]

Let me rephrase. 30" long, and 18' wide. If I'm going to have to run a combo of T5's and the Sol units to get the spectrum, I might be a little disinclined to make the jump...

[SPotter]

2 would be just fine but don't let the t5 piece discourage you from making the jump. All you would need is 2 reflectors, 2 pairs of end caps and a ballast. you would be able to diy the mounting to the hanging bracket for the AI's.

[wrxreefer823]

Hmm... Didn't really think of that. I'm pretty sure That Fish Place has materials for just that, and they're within driving distance of me. (Also didn't want to spend a small fortune, but I want to get it RIGHT this time as well)

[SPotter]

you could probably do it all for under $100.