Red Wiry Algae (Gelidium)

[vitodog]

This pest is taking over my tank (rocks only). I'm sure I have identified this algae correctly. Anyone have success ridding their tank of this particular algae? I've tried Algae Fix, cutting back on my lighting schedule (5 hrs. MH, 8 1/2 hrs. actinic) did a 3 day blackout, reduced nutrient intake (feed 5 fish a tsp of Reef Nutrition Mysis Feast once daily and Oyster Feast and Roti Feast 2 or 3 times a week for my corals. I have a 90 gal. tank, ETSS Sump Buddy 40 protein skimmer, an MP40 and MP10 for circulation. I recently switched from GFO to NPX bio pellets ( I noticed the algae before switching to the pellets).

My parameters are: SG= 1.026 (refractometer), PH= 8.2 (Hanna ph meter), Alk= 8.90 dkh (Hanna Checker), Ca= 450 ppm (Elos), Mg= 1250 ppm (Elos), No3= below 0 (Elos), Po4= 0.00 (Hanna Checker). My temp is consistently 77-78F.

If anyone has had some experience with this particular algae, please let me know how you got rid of this pest. I was able to rid my tank of GHA and Bryopsis in the past and now this. I have to say that right about now, I'm seriously thinking of giving this hobby up:headwalls:. PLEASE HELP! Thank you.

[HighlandReefer]

Increasing the mag level by 300-400 ppm by 100 ppm increments, using Tech M may work for this, but I have read no others trying it on your type of algae. It may be worth a try. ;)

[vitodog]

Thanks Cliff. I was successful in using the Tech-M method on Bryopsis about 10 months ago. I will give it a go on this pest. Anyone else have any success with this algae? How did you do it?

PS, I forgot to mention in my original post, I use RO/DI for top off and all water changes (9 gal.weekly).

[bertoni]

You could try the Tech-M. Otherwise, all I can suggest is nutrient control.

[vitodog]

Thanks Jon. Nutrients (too much) must be the culprit. Although, I think I feed very modestly. I don't dose anything except Ca, Alk and Mg. I did however read that this form of algae is usually caused by the introduction of new frags (frag meets etc.) I will try the Tech-M. I also read that some people have torched the algae successfully. But, I'm not sure what they mean by "Torched". Does anyone know if by "Torched" they mean a small propane torch or a propane lighter? Has anyone else heard of or tried this method?

[bertoni]

People have used propane torches on live rock. I wouldn't try that just yet, though.

[Piper27]

Don't do all that is all you need is a mexican turbo snail. I had it everywhere and got 4 or 5 snails and they took care of it in a matter of maybe 3 or 4 days. They are a large snail though so make sure everything is glued down good.

[vitodog]

Thanks Piper27. I'll try the more natural method you and bertoni suggest before I chance the possibility of blowing myself up. I had also read that Turbo snails might work. I ordered some (not mexican) on-line and none survived the trip. My LFS usually has this particular turbo snail in stock. Does anyone think I should also raise the Mg along with adding the turbos?

[HighlandReefer]

Some hobbyists have complained that increasing mag 300-400 ppm either killed their snails or made them lethargic.

[gjk]

A very interesting thread to say the least. I have the Gelidium algae in discussion here and now know it. Mine is very "close" growing to the rocks. This thread has been helpful to me so I am posting a few details of my experience with it.

My Gelidium issue is about 5 months old. It has been very widespread. I slowly raised the mg to between 1600 and 1700 using a combination of Tech m and a popular bulk supplier. Now I am using strictly Tech m for the duration it takes to kill the Gelidium. I have had exceptional success with the Tech-M and high levels of mg. The places where the Gelidium is still thriving is, as mentioned above, in high flow and high lighted areas.

I experienced a slow snail die off and did not think to tie it to the high mg levels, but now after reading the above believe this must be the reason. My remaining snails are lethargic as well.

My Clown Tang acts as if he likes to eat the Gelidium, but not sure how much he is actually removing/consuming. Besides some amazing colors this will be the only good contribution to my reef from this fish! I have cut the algae sheet offerings to the two large tangs I have by 1/3 on any given week. My orange spot blenny seems to have adapted to eating the Gelidium? The orange spot does not eat the sheet algae offerings any longer and does seem busy trying to eat the Gelidium? He is existing on something?

As the Gelidium dies off in areas that were pretty heavily infested, the fiberous gray remains cling to the rock for an extended time. Weeks after it dies, it is still clinging unless I blow it off and this is only marginally effective!

I hope more people will add to this thread with their Gelidium experiences both positive and negative.

[vitodog]

A very interesting thread to say the least. I have the Gelidium algae in discussion here and now know it. Mine is very "close" growing to the rocks. This thread has been helpful to me so I am posting a few details of my experience with it.

My Gelidium issue is about 5 months old. It has been very widespread. I slowly raised the mg to between 1600 and 1700 using a combination of Tech m and a popular bulk supplier. Now I am using strictly Tech m for the duration it takes to kill the Gelidium. I have had exceptional success with the Tech-M and high levels of mg. The places where the Gelidium is still thriving is, as mentioned above, in high flow and high lighted areas.

I experienced a slow snail die off and did not think to tie it to the high mg levels, but now after reading the above believe this must be the reason. My remaining snails are lethargic as well.

My Clown Tang acts as if he likes to eat the Gelidium, but not sure how much he is actually removing/consuming. Besides some amazing colors this will be the only good contribution to my reef from this fish! I have cut the algae sheet offerings to the two large tangs I have by 1/3 on any given week. My orange spot blenny seems to have adapted to eating the Gelidium? The orange spot does not eat the sheet algae offerings any longer and does seem busy trying to eat the Gelidium? He is existing on something?

As the Gelidium dies off in areas that were pretty heavily infested, the fiberous gray remains cling to the rock for an extended time. Weeks after it dies, it is still clinging unless I blow it off and this is only marginally effective!

I hope more people will add to this thread with their Gelidium experiences both positive and negative.

gjk, thanks for sharing your experience regarding this *&%# pest. You have given me hope. I really did not want to "Torch" anything. As I previously stated, I was successful using Tech-M for Bryopsis. In my case, it (Tech-M) did not appear to have any negative effects on my snails. It did however cause some green button polyps to temporarily turn white but after returning Mg levels back to normal, the color returned to the polyps. I had raised my Mg level to 2000 ppm (accidentally) and allowed it to drop to around 1600-1700 ppm and maintained it at these levels for around 4 wks. I also stopped running carbon for a month, did you do the same regarding the carbon (assuming you run carbon), in your efforts to kill off the Gelidium?

Do you feel that the tang or the Tech-M was most effective in removing the Gelidium, or a combination of both, including the blenny?

I also hope more RC members respond to this thread and share their experience and knowledge, both negative and positive, regarding Gelidium.

[HighlandReefer]

The reason why using Tech M to raise mag levels works to control many species of algae is not completely understood, since there has not been any research to figure this out.

One logical explanation would be that Tech M has contaminates in it like heavy metals (most mag supplements do, but the extent is not known).

When you increase the mag level 300-400 ppm you are adding a lot of mag supplement as well as heavy metal contaminates. When the levels of heavy metals are increased, scientific research has shown that it will kill algae if the levels are high enough. Combinations of heavy metals will act synergisticly, meaning that it will take lower levels of each heavy metal individually to kill the algae. Snails & other invertebrates like shrimp are very sensitive to heavy metals as well. It seems to fit at least. :)

If this is the case, then it would make sense to increase the mag level fairly quickly (not more than 100 ppm mag increase per day), before the heavy metals are grabbed up by dissolved organics which makes them less toxic to the algae.

[Piper27]

A few people say tangs will eat it but I found the only thing to keep it under controll to the point of not seeing it is the Mexican turbos. I would suggest buying them not regular turbos. You will be amazed how fast they eat it. I had regular turbos the whole time and never saw them reduce the algae. You should only need a few Mexicans they are hard to keep fed after the algae dies, if that's the only algae you have. This girl at my lfs told me to throw my rocks away, thank god I tried the Mexican turbos first! Make sure to buy the smaller ones if it's an option, they get huge, one of mine was 2" around.

[vitodog]

A few people say tangs will eat it but I found the only thing to keep it under controll to the point of not seeing it is the Mexican turbos. I would suggest buying them not regular turbos. You will be amazed how fast they eat it. I had regular turbos the whole time and never saw them reduce the algae. You should only need a few Mexicans they are hard to keep fed after the algae dies, if that's the only algae you have. This girl at my lfs told me to throw my rocks away, thank god I tried the Mexican turbos first! Make sure to buy the smaller ones if it's an option, they get huge, one of mine was 2" around.

Thanks Piper27. I got the snails (Mexican Turbos) from my LFS this morning. I got 5 good sized ones (did not get your last response until I got home from the LFS). I'm going to try these before I try the Tech-M on this particular algae. Right now, I have plenty for them to graze on. Thanks again for your help.

[vitodog]

The reason why using Tech M to raise mag levels works to control many species of algae is not completely understood, since there has not been any research to figure this out.

One logical explanation would be that Tech M has contaminates in it like heavy metals (most mag supplements do, but the extent is not known).

When you increase the mag level 300-400 ppm you are adding a lot of mag supplement as well as heavy metal contaminates. When the levels of heavy metals are increased, scientific research has shown that it will kill algae if the levels are high enough. Combinations of heavy metals will act synergisticly, meaning that it will take lower levels of each heavy metal individually to kill the algae. Snails & other invertebrates like shrimp are very sensitive to heavy metals as well. It seems to fit at least. :)

If this is the case, then it would make sense to increase the mag level fairly quickly (not more than 100 ppm mag increase per day), before the heavy metals are grabbed up by dissolved organics which makes them less toxic to the algae.

Thanks for the excellent explanation and advise Cliff. I'm going to try some Mexican turbos on this algae before using the Tech-M. Always better to go the natural route first I guess. Wish me luck. I will keep the forum apprised of my progress (or lack of progress) :reading:.

[HighlandReefer]

I wish you the best of luck. ;)

I agree, the snails are a safer way to control the algae. Using Chemicals is always a last resort. :)

[vitodog]

I wish you the best of luck. ;)

I agree, the snails are a safer way to control the algae. Using Chemicals is always a last resort. :)

Thanks Cliff.

[gjk]

I feel that the Tech M is having an effect on the Gelidium but it seems to be a good deal slower than the effect it has on other algae issues. I feel my Clown Tang and Blenny are having very marginal effects on it. When you closely watch the Tang it does not appear to be taking much algae away with his scrubbing action?

I am going to try Pipers Mexican Turbo snails as soon as possible. He seems pretty confident and it obviously worked for him. I am considering bringing my mg down to accommodate the snails better?

[gjk]

Nice to have Cliff weighing in on the science behind much of this! Until reading this thread today I have pretty much accepted the Gelidium and now I have a renewed attitude deal with it. Thanks for all for contributions and starting this thread, very helpful. I will report back sometime in the future on the Mex Turbos.

[Grant W]

I used a few mexican turbos, a few troncas and astreas and the compination finally wiped it out. Now my rock is turning purple with coralline algae again:)

[vitodog]

I feel that the Tech M is having an effect on the Gelidium but it seems to be a good deal slower than the effect it has on other algae issues. I feel my Clown Tang and Blenny are having very marginal effects on it. When you closely watch the Tang it does not appear to be taking much algae away with his scrubbing action?

I am going to try Pipers Mexican Turbo snails as soon as possible. He seems pretty confident and it obviously worked for him. I am considering bringing my mg down to accommodate the snails better?

gjk, I'm trying the Mexican Turbo snails also. I purchased 5 good sized ones. After acclimation, I paced them on one of the more heavily infected rocks. I guess its wait and see for now. gjk, were you running carbon while treating your tank with the high levels of Mg? The reason I'm asking is, if you are still running carbon while maintaining the high levels of Mg, this could explain the slower progress. Also, what size tank are you maintaining? I you like, I'll keep you informed of my progress. Good luck.

[Barfly]

gjk, I'm trying the Mexican Turbo snails also. I purchased 5 good sized ones. After acclimation, I paced them on one of the more heavily infected rocks. I guess its wait and see for now. gjk, were you running carbon while treating your tank with the high levels of Mg? The reason I'm asking is, if you are still running carbon while maintaining the high levels of Mg, this could explain the slower progress. Also, what size tank are you maintaining? I you like, I'll keep you informed of my progress. Good luck.

Please let us know how it works out. I just battled this pest and finally gave up and bleach and acid washed the rocks. I run a bare bottom tank with starboard on the bottom. I just noticed last night that it is growing on my starboard. :headwallblue:

If the tech M or turbos work for you, please let us know.

Thanks!

[Piper27]

Yea I hope they take care of it for you guys, I know I was relieved after they started mowing mine down. I couldn't believe someone said I should nuke the rocks. I mean obviously the snail isn't going to get rid of every little piece of algae but as long as you have one or two in the tank you won't ever see it (at least thats my experience). I used to have one mexican in my tank and it died for some reason, a while later I started noticing the algae popping up.

[vitodog]

I used a few mexican turbos, a few troncas and astreas and the compination finally wiped it out. Now my rock is turning purple with coralline algae again:)

Sounds great Grant. I see that you have a 120 gal. I'm hoping that since the snails worked in your tank, which is much larger than mine, they will also do the job in my 90.

[vitodog]

Please let us know how it works out. I just battled this pest and finally gave up and bleach and acid washed the rocks. I run a bare bottom tank with starboard on the bottom. I just noticed last night that it is growing on my starboard. :headwallblue:

If the tech M or turbos work for you, please let us know.

Thanks!

I will John.

[vitodog]

Yea I hope they take care of it for you guys, I know I was relieved after they started mowing mine down. I couldn't believe someone said I should nuke the rocks. I mean obviously the snail isn't going to get rid of every little piece of algae but as long as you have one or two in the tank you won't ever see it (at least thats my experience). I used to have one mexican in my tank and it died for some reason, a while later I started noticing the algae popping up.

I'm hope I have the success you are having with this algae Piper27. Piper27, would you mind telling me what size tank you are running and how many Turbos you used? Thanks.

[Piper27]

When it was a problem it was in my 100 long and I had bought maybe 6 turbos to put in it. Maybe 4 of them made it, now I have a 210 and haven't had any problems with it since the snails have been in there. Used all the old rocks that had the algae on it in the upgrade too.

[vitodog]

When it was a problem it was in my 100 long and I had bought maybe 6 turbos to put in it. Maybe 4 of them made it, now I have a 210 and haven't had any problems with it since the snails have been in there. Used all the old rocks that had the algae on it in the upgrade too.

Thanks Piper27. I purchased 5 for my 90. Sounds encouraging. Thanks again Piper.

[billsreef]

Some hobbyists have complained that increasing mag 300-400 ppm either killed their snails or made them lethargic.

Overdose of mag is used as an anesthetic for inverts ;)

[HighlandReefer]

Thanks for the info Bill. ;)

Reading through a few articles they use both mag chloride and mag sulfate as an anesthetic for snails.

For hobbyists who keep their mag level higher than is recommended, I'm wondering what effect this may have, which seems more common place now (perhaps due to increased mag levels in salt mixes). I can understand elevating mag levels as a last resort for control of some problem algae, but to routinely maintain at higher levels?

Do you know at what mag level (ppm) it becomes an anesthetic for inverts?

[HighlandReefer]

Zoo animal and wildlife immobilization and anesthesia - Google Books Result
http://books.google.com/books?id=Inn5Ox178YsC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=magnesium+anesthesia+snail&source=bl&ots=bvj0HL7RYe&sig=zDzFO3JeKUH1OQLQ5p--5hQowD8&hl=en&ei=cq4uTqG8LILEgAefnKR1&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA

From this book it is recommended to use 2-24 grams magnesium sulfate per 100 ml as an anastetic for snails. I'm not sure if this is added to normal marine water or even perhaps fresh water as a bath.

[gjk]

I do feel the Tech M is working. It is slower to act on the Gelidium than other algae in my tank which was a problem in year one. The Gelidium in my tank remains after it dies off as a grayish detritious looking web that still clings to the rocks. Even in this state it is still hard to get it to turn loose of the rocks! lol. My tank is 3 years old, it is a 300 display, 400 total. I am not running carbon and have not for a long time. I do run a significant amount of GFO and I have 1500ml of some very positive working biopellets online for about 4 months now. Nitrates and phosphates are undetectable. However, I am waiting now to receive a new low range Hanna phosphate meter so that will be interesting. I am currently using LaMotte kits for nitrate and phosphate. The BRS biopellets really work well for me. I feed very light. I believe that my nutrient issue is with my rocks. I am hopeful that with the current program they will eventually leach out the phosphate? When I set my tank up originally I was very green to the hobby. One mistake perhaps was not cleaning or cooking my dry rock. It is nice rock, but was full of graet amounts of nutrients. If that is a correct theory of mine then maybe the phosphate will eventually leach out completely? Does anyone have an opinion on this.

I have not found any Mex Turbos yet but may get some online soon if non local. Thanks again to all for the continued and helpful information.

[billsreef]

Zoo animal and wildlife immobilization and anesthesia - Google Books Result
http://books.google.com/books?id=Inn5Ox178YsC&pg=PA148&lpg=PA148&dq=magnesium+anesthesia+snail&source=bl&ots=bvj0HL7RYe&sig=zDzFO3JeKUH1OQLQ5p--5hQowD8&hl=en&ei=cq4uTqG8LILEgAefnKR1&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=1&ved=0CBUQ6AEwAA

From this book it is recommended to use 2-24 grams magnesium sulfate per 100 ml as an anastetic for snails. I'm not sure if this is added to normal marine water or even perhaps fresh water as a bath.

Added to normal marine water for marine snails, and fresh water for fresh water snails ;)

[HighlandReefer]

Thanks Bill. ;)

Now to compute this information into ppm (mg/L) so as hobbyists can relate to this info. This is where Chemists can help out, since I'm prone to error doing this. :lol:

[HighlandReefer]

2 grams per 100 ml or 2000 mg per 0.1 liter = 20,000 mg/L

If I'm firguring this correctly, then that is a lot of mag to increase to that level in a tank?

EDIT: Ooops: I think you gotta figure that actual weight of just mag? :)

[HighlandReefer]

About 4,000 mg/L of just mag, if mag is about 20% of the entire mag sulfate molecule by weight? Increasing the mag level by 4,000 ppm to antithesis snails using this method?



Given:

Molar mass of MgSO4 = 120.3676 g/mol

Convert grams Magnesium Sulfate to moles or moles Magnesium Sulfate to grams

Molecular weight calculation:
24.3050 + 32.065 + 15.9994*4



›› Percent composition by element
Element Symbol Atomic Mass # of Atoms Mass Percent
Magnesium Mg 24.3050 1 20.192%
Oxygen O 15.9994 4 53.168%
Sulfur S 32.065 1 26.639%

[DarkXerox]

My tuxedo urchin wipes out any of it that it can touch. I had mexican turbos before as well but at that point the urchin did (and still does) its job. I still see spots here and there but I really have to look hard to find it.

[DarkXerox]

Oh also MgCl works great on terrestrial snails too. I used to use that when I was doing research in a neuro lab (they have huuuge neurons!)

[tmz]

gjk.

When I set my tank up originally I was very green to the hobby. One mistake perhaps was not cleaning or cooking my dry rock. It is nice rock, but was full of graet amounts of nutrients. If that is a correct theory of mine then maybe the phosphate will eventually leach out completely? Does anyone have an opinion on this.

If the water around it is kept at low PO4 ,any loosely bound PO4 on the rock surface shold equilibrate over time, ime. It can take months though. Curing it in water kept at low ph ( with lanthanum chloride ,gfo or another phospahte remover) can take weeks until it stops leaching.

[HighlandReefer]

Oh also MgCl works great on terrestrial snails too. I used to use that when I was doing research in a neuro lab (they have huuuge neurons!)

I am assuming you used about the same additional amount of mag chloride as mag sulfate which results in an increase of around 4,000 ppm mag in saltwater to knock the snails out. ;)

If so, I would think from the above that a 300-400 ppm increase in mag would not have much effect on snails by itself to knock them out? :)

In other words, I still assume that it may be the increased contaminates that is/are having an effect on the snails (perhaps heavy metals) at the 300-400 mag increase levels & not the acutal mag level?

[DarkXerox]

No I was literally injecting land snails with a few mM concentration solution to numb them and extraxt their circumesophogeal nerve rings. Keeps them from retracting.

[HighlandReefer]

Thanks ;)

Injecting and raising the surrounding water mag concentration can't be compared.

Bill's post has got me going on what is possibly causing the lethargic snails & in some cases deaths, when increasing mag levels. :lol:

[billsreef]

Not sure if a mere 400-500 ppm increase would do much or not. I've used MgSO4 to anesthetize a variety of inverts by simply gradually adding it to SW until the critter no longer responds to stimulus. Never actually measured the increase, but pretty sure it would be a great deal more than a few hundred ppm raise. Though it is certainly possible that sort of rise could cause long term problems.

[vitodog]

I do feel the Tech M is working. It is slower to act on the Gelidium than other algae in my tank which was a problem in year one. The Gelidium in my tank remains after it dies off as a grayish detritious looking web that still clings to the rocks. Even in this state it is still hard to get it to turn loose of the rocks! lol. My tank is 3 years old, it is a 300 display, 400 total. I am not running carbon and have not for a long time. I do run a significant amount of GFO and I have 1500ml of some very positive working biopellets online for about 4 months now. Nitrates and phosphates are undetectable. However, I am waiting now to receive a new low range Hanna phosphate meter so that will be interesting. I am currently using LaMotte kits for nitrate and phosphate. The BRS biopellets really work well for me. I feed very light. I believe that my nutrient issue is with my rocks. I am hopeful that with the current program they will eventually leach out the phosphate? When I set my tank up originally I was very green to the hobby. One mistake perhaps was not cleaning or cooking my dry rock. It is nice rock, but was full of graet amounts of nutrients. If that is a correct theory of mine then maybe the phosphate will eventually leach out completely? Does anyone have an opinion on this.

I have not found any Mex Turbos yet but may get some online soon if non local. Thanks again to all for the continued and helpful information.

gjk, you might be on to something there. I also use bio-pellets (NPX) and my No3 and Po4 were almost undetectable before using the pellets but since using the pellets, nitrates and phosphates are undetectable. I use the Hanna checker (not the ULR) for Po4 and Elos to test No3. And, I also feed very light. So, maybe there is something in what you about your rocks (maybe mine also) leaching nutrients. I purchased live rock and base rock when I started my tank about a year and half ago. The live rock was cured though.

As far as the Mexican Turbos are concerned, I purchased 5 on Sunday and they immediately began to mow through the algae. I will be purchasing a few more tomorrow for the other side of my tank.

I will post updates as things progress.

[vitodog]

I'm not sure if this is pertinent or not, but, I raised my Mg level to above 2000 ppm (accidentally) while trying to rid my tank of Bryopsis and all of my snails (as far as I could tell) seemed unaffected by the increase.

[gjk]

Great to hear your snails are going at it vitodog and that yours are not affected by the high mg. I am just now acclimating 6 medium Mexican Turbos. I am looking at my Gelidium more close than normal these days since you started this thread. I definately have some more small patches of degrading Gelidium. The gray fiberous matter left behind is easy to spot and this new die off is occuring in very high flow and high lighted areas.

[HighlandReefer]

Not sure if a mere 400-500 ppm increase would do much or not. I've used MgSO4 to anesthetize a variety of inverts by simply gradually adding it to SW until the critter no longer responds to stimulus. Never actually measured the increase, but pretty sure it would be a great deal more than a few hundred ppm raise. Though it is certainly possible that sort of rise could cause long term problems.

Thanks Bill for the info. That helps a lot. ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------


I'm not sure if this is pertinent or not, but, I raised my Mg level to above 2000 ppm (accidentally) while trying to rid my tank of Bryopsis and all of my snails (as far as I could tell) seemed unaffected by the increase.

Your experience is the same as many hobbyists who have posted here in the Chemistry forum regarding raising mag levels, especially if one does not use Tech M. From the posts here, it seems the Tech M causes problems with snails at least more often. ;)

Vitodog,

Did you use Tech M when you elevated your mag that high? Did you get control of your byopsis?

[vitodog]

Thanks Bill for the info. That helps a lot. ;)

--------------------------------------------------------------------------




Your experience is the same as many hobbyists who have posted here in the Chemistry forum regarding raising mag levels, especially if one does not use Tech M. From the posts here, it seems the Tech M causes problems with snails at least more often. ;)

Vitodog,

Did you use Tech M when you elevated your mag that high? Did you get control of your byopsis?

Yes Cliff, I did use Tech-M and it did not seem to have any affect on my snails. It did however have a bleaching affect on a few of my corals. When my Mg returned to normal levels, color returned to my corals. I should also say that in addition to raising Mg, I removed as much of the affected rock as I could and manually removed (scrubbed with toothbrush) as much of the bryopsis as I could. I also kept my lights off for 3 days and reduced my lighting schedule when I turned them back on. I cleaned and soaked (in vinegar) all pumps and replaced all tubing. I also reduced my feeding and up graded my protein skimmer. I stopped running carbon for a month and after all the bryopsis was gone, I conducted a large water change. I'm cautiously optimistic and have not seen a return of bryopsis. My tank has been 6 months bryopsis free. And now, Gelidium :headwally:

[gjk]

The new Mexican Turbos are having issues. These came from the lfs and were healthy. They were in the bag about one hour with no significant temp impact. I slow drip acclimated them for more than an hour. They are all literally going to sleep or dead? No crabs are attacking yet so they may not be dead? It seems as though the 1750, auto dosed, level mg in my tank is having an effect on them? I have been maintaining this same 1700-1750 for most of two months. I recently have been experiencing a slight drop in alk. I have moved from the low 8's consistent to the very high 7's now consistent for about one week. I am thinking of easing the mg down to 1500?

[bertoni]

One of the key parts of a drip is to empty the bag partially now and then, IMO. If you don't do that, and the drip only doubles the volume of water, then the SG difference is cut only in half, and that might not be enough.

When I acclimated, I measure the SG along the way, so that I knew what the difference was between the bag and the tank.

[tmz]

I agree snails need careful sg acclimation.

Regarding Mexican Trubos, Dr Ron Shimek in his book "Marine Invertebrates" ,pg296, notes this variety is often collected in sub tropical waters which are cooler than typical reef temperatures and " do not survive well when housed in normal reef temperatures".

[Glazner]

I must have some tuff Turbo's. I float for temp and drop them in.... My LFS does not drip acclimate. Said more harm than good???

[ReefBuff02]

One of the key parts of a drip is to empty the bag partially now and then, IMO. If you don't do that, and the drip only doubles the volume of water, then the SG difference is cut only in half, and that might not be enough.

When I acclimated, I measure the SG along the way, so that I knew what the difference was between the bag and the tank.

Abosultely! This is chemistry 101. If you use drip acclimation you must either drain off most of the water in the store bag or periodically siphon out the combo water. I do both! For example: a 2 hour acclimation would involve dumping 50% of store water followed by drip at about 2 drops per sec (less if it is a small bag- for example - adjust drip so that the volume approximately doubles during the first hour - i.e. has returned to the volume prior to first dump). Then I dump 50%. If repeated for another hour the new addition would be in ~75% your tank water.

In practice, I speed up water addition in the last half hour and siphon out from the bag faster, therefore, when added to the tank it is closer to 85% or 90% tank water.

I have never lost a new addition to my tank in 4 years of reefing.

An aside on temperature... If you use drip method outside your tank (in a container) and the tank temperature is more than a couple degrees different from your ambient temp, it may be a good idea to transfer everything to a small plastic bag for the last bit of accilimation. That way, it can be suspended in your tank for 15 min or so to equalize temp.

[Piper27]

Yea the Mexican turbos are kinda hard to keep, I did ok dripping them, my problem was either food source or maybe temp since it would get up to 81 at times, now that I keep the tank from 77 to 79 I haven't had any die, plus there is only two or three left so food might be easier to find without competition.

[vitodog]

The new Mexican Turbos are having issues. These came from the lfs and were healthy. They were in the bag about one hour with no significant temp impact. I slow drip acclimated them for more than an hour. They are all literally going to sleep or dead? No crabs are attacking yet so they may not be dead? It seems as though the 1750, auto dosed, level mg in my tank is having an effect on them? I have been maintaining this same 1700-1750 for most of two months. I recently have been experiencing a slight drop in alk. I have moved from the low 8's consistent to the very high 7's now consistent for about one week. I am thinking of easing the mg down to 1500?

gjk, I hope your turbos survive. I think that what happened to the turbos had more to do with your Mg level than the acclimation process. Just my opinion. Although my experience with raising Mg levels showed no negative effect on my snails, (don't know why) I think, depending on the raised level, type of snail etc, raised levels of Mg, can have a negative effect on some (most?) snails. IMO, I would wait until you lower you Mg to normal levels before introducing the turbos.

As an update, the turbos I introduced into my tank on Sunday, continue to mow down the Gelidium. I still have plenty for them to eat.

[billsreef]

Best acclimation method I've ever come across for use on snails is the "dry" method. Simply take them out of the bag water, place them in a bowel with no water and let them drain for a half hour or so. Sort of simulates getting caught out at low tide ;) Then place the bowel in the tank and let them climb out on their own. Found I get much higher survival rates than doing drip acclimation. I also prefer having them shipped "dry" (with just a damp paper towel or some seaweed).

[tmz]

Nice tip Bill, Thanks.

[vitodog]

I said I would update the forum regarding the progress, or lack of progress with my Red Wiry Turf Algae (Gelidium) issues and the effectiveness the Mexican Turbo snails had on this algae. Well, I'm pleased to report that these snails are rapidly mowing down this algae at an unbelievable pace. They seem to be able to smell where the algae is or recognize it on sight. Now, I just have to figure out how to get rid of it completely. Piper27, if your reading this, can you tell me if your snails completely eradicated this algae from your tank or do you just keep a few Mex turbos in your tank to keep this algae under control? And gjk, when your Mg levels return to normal, try the snails, they really do work.

[Lynnmw1208]

Don't do all that is all you need is a mexican turbo snail. I had it everywhere and got 4 or 5 snails and they took care of it in a matter of maybe 3 or 4 days. They are a large snail though so make sure everything is glued down good.

+1 I liked this pretty algae until I heard it can take over. Well I added 3 mexican turbos to take care of lobophora algae, and one discovered this stuff and snacked on it until it was completely gone.

[aqua80]

any updates here ?
I have the same algae (I think) :

http://i988.photobucket.com/albums/af4/aqua80/Capturedcran2012-02-0813802PM.jpg

and while I think this algae is helping me to have good water quality (no nitrates and phosphates) for my sps, it is also a sediment trap and I'd like to have less of it... top crowns snails seems to eat it a little and my turbos (not sure is they are mexican turbos) don't care much...

I'm adding a tuxedo urchin tonight...

[brandon429]

You need to post that pic in the Pico reef pest algae challenge thread we will have your tank clean in a week. Nothing beats peroxide for killing that stuff. Nothing

[brandon429]

Its in the nano reef forum, 8 pages of algae killing splendor

[aqua80]

You need to post that pic in the Pico reef pest algae challenge thread we will have your tank clean in a week. Nothing beats peroxide for killing that stuff. Nothing

will look for that thread !
but I have this algae on almost every LR, snails, overflow etc...

[brandon429]

Oh that sounds just like the challenge we want. So you let the stuff run wild eh? :) it killed my first pico vase as well I know your frustration...

There are pics on page 8 of the thread of a gelidium kill that took right at 5 days as predicted, the stuff is very easy to use. I recommend you read the whole thread, plus the linked threads to nano reef.com, to get ready for the treatment. it will take about 2 hours lol but is worth it.

your infestation is particularly tough, the holdfasts will be deep in the rocks but just watch how well it works if you try it. it can beat any infestation of gelidium. a follow up round is likely needed. however, it will fix your problem

we need to run spot treatments, target dosing of peroxide (not dosing the whole tank) right on the bad areas on rocks or surfaces you can take out of the main tank. This is the absolute best kill, it will harm nothing in your tank and kill only the algae target, within 5 days or so to a total kill wherever its applied.

Some people want to dose the whole tank as the easiest way, and that works, but not nearly as fast or as 100% safe as target dosing outside the tank as listed multiple times in that thread.

Even if you cant remove all surfaces, just remove what you can, place a few drops 3% peroxide right on the bad algae, let it wick into the strands via capillary action, wait 2 mins, then rinse and reinstall back into tank

treat a few areas as a test run before you start the whole tank. you'll be convinced in no time.

take pics each day as it dies off, we love that!
B

[brandon429]

using snails to kill it and water nutrient starving/blackouts are all after the fact removal options, they aren't preventative. Ive found no preventative, this organism hitches a ride into your tank on any hard surface you input from another tank. Regarding after the fact kills, peroxide is really great. Snails are handy too if you can find some that work all the time. I rate them at 50% efficacy simply due to the number of threads using them without a removal of the target. threads using peroxide as a spot treatment have total target removal, and no collateral loss of animals, if the target treatment is ran correctly as we've documented over and over.

Its one option of many that works, I use it because its the best algae remover (broad spectrum) Ive seen in ten years.

[brandon429]

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2082359&page=8