Dinoflagellate ID

[TimeConsumer]

Hi, I'm about 5 months into my first reef, and I'm encountering my first big problem. I'm getting a small bloom of something that I believe is a form of dinoflagellate. But before embarking upon my battle plan, I would like to see if anyone concurs with my diagnosis.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/steveo331/IMG_2023.jpg

It really seems to like this Acro frag a lot. I blow it clean about 3 times a day and find it covered again a couple of hours later.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/steveo331/IMG_2014.jpg

These two images are of the thick growth around my spraybar.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/steveo331/IMG_2012.jpg


As you can see the problem is not at epic proportions just yet. But at the rate it grows back, I think this could end up serious. But I would like to know if anyone is sure this is a dinoflagellate.

Technical Info:
75g display with 40g sump. Deep sand bed, 10g refugium with chaeto. Reef Octopus Extreme XS 160 skimmer.
SG: 1.025. dKH: 9. Calcium: 490ppm. Nitrate: 0.25ppm. Phosphate: Undetectable (using Salifert test kit at high sensitivity). Magnesium: Currently unknown (borrowing a test kit soon). pH: 8.4.
T5 Lights: 1 month old w/ 12hr photoperiod. RO/DI water and Red Sea Salt. Waterflow: 25x-45x system volume turnover.
GAC: 20oz Chemipure Elite. Carbon dosing: 4mL of vodka/day. Water change: 5% weekly. Bioload: Heavy (lots of fish, lots of food) Cleanup Crew: ~25 Assorted Margarita, Astrea, and Nerite Snails. ~50 Dwarf Cerith Snails (tiny). ~15 Nassarius Snails. ~12 Hermit crabs.

After some research I feel the vodka may be an important contributing factor. It did lower my nitrate levels, but never increased the skimmate. My hunch is the dinos were feeding off the carbon and reducing the nutrient levels, not the bacteria.

And if these are indeed dinos, I have developed a two week battle plan based upon the threads I have read of what others have tried.
1. Cease vodka dosing
2. Increase Alkalinity to 12dKH and Magnesium to 1600ppm
3. Install a reactor to run ROX carbon
4. Blackout the tank for 3 days
5. Significantly reduce feeding
6. Cease water changes for the time being (many argue trace elements boost growth, I'm dubious but willing to try)
7. Siphon Dino's out once per day through a filter sock, and return the filtered water back to the tank
8. Rinse and repeat for another 2 weeks if necessary

Please feel free to reply with any helpful suggestions, knowledge, or criticism you may have. I don't plan on implementing this strategy for a few more days until I feel confident in both the ID of the suspect and the plan of action.

[Aquaman101]

That looks like dino's to me. Your plan seems on target. I have tried keeping an elevated pH, but that was a challenge to do round the clock.

3 day blackouts didn't work for me. I'm currently on day 5 of a 7 day blackout to see what happens.

I am also dosing Hydrogen Peroxide. Google Hydrogen Peroxide and Dinoflagellates and you'll get several hits. Might be something else to put in your arsenal.

Good Luck!

[TimeConsumer]

That looks like dino's to me. Your plan seems on target. I have tried keeping an elevated pH, but that was a challenge to do round the clock.

3 day blackouts didn't work for me. I'm currently on day 5 of a 7 day blackout to see what happens.

I am also dosing Hydrogen Peroxide. Google Hydrogen Peroxide and Dinoflagellates and you'll get several hits. Might be something else to put in your arsenal.

Good Luck!

I've heard good things about using hydrogen peroxide, I might start that after the blackout.

And an update on the situation: today's growth is twice as bad as yesterday. I began some manual removal using a siphon, but most of it goes right through a 200 micron filter sock. I have slowly brought my dkH to 12 and my magnesium is at 1400 and climbing. I also began the blackout just a few minutes ago. The tank and refugium lights are out, and the entire tank and sump are covered in black cardboard (found a good use for that TEK light box). I have stopped the vodka dosing as of last night, and haven't fed in 48 hours.

Hopefully this works!

[ariel47]

I did blackout for 3 days, raise the alk, and also tried H202. The blackouts and no water changes worked the best. My last resort was ultra algae x by fauna marin worked well. You have to be careful dosing. Their was no corals in the tank.

[Rickyrooz1]

I am going through the same problem. PO4 in the tank is 0.05 ppm, I just tested new saltwater (Reef Crystals) and it was 0.08 ppm (Hanna Checker). I don't think I will try the hydrogen peroxide after reading bad reviews but I did try leaving the lights off for three days. This killed any algae in the tank but now the dinos are slowing coming back.

[TimeConsumer]

From what I've read a blackout is the best way to stop them, but sometimes people have to do them more than once. Additionally, I also covered the glass, top, and sump with cardboard to prevent any ambient light from getting in. That may be the difference between failure and success in my situation. If even a small amount can survive the blackout I have no doubts that it will grow back full force very quickly.

[Knox_Legend]

I had the same looking problem in my 5.5 gallon mixed reef and it was really bothering my zoas. So I read up on the peroxide dosing and started dosing .5ml last Sunday every morning and along with a 3 day lights out period I finally ran my lights for 4 hours yesterday and let me tell you what a big change it made. My zoas are all open and I have no more ugly strings on anything. The tank is looking great and everything seems super happy now.

I have read of this not working for some people but it may be due to a different strain of dinos. It really has worked for me and I will probably continue a few more doses while ramping up my lighting schedule to a full 8 hours to see what happens.

[The_Uga]

I had dino's for a year in my tank, tried lights out and syphoning which slowed the growth but didnt get rid of it. Tried many other solutions but nothing seemed to work.

I ended up, after being warned chemicals wern't the best answer, using FM Algae X.

A year of battling dino's was ended in a week of dosing algae x.

What works for one person might not work for another, dino's tested me for quite a while, I'm very happy now that its gone, chin up and persistance :lmao:

[TimeConsumer]

After reading up on Ultra Algae X it definitely seems like a powerful product. If my current plan fails I may try it out. I'm only concerned because a few people reported on the loss of some livestock during treatment. Although it is difficult to determine causality with so many variables in reef aquaria, especially when one of them is a toxic, pre-historic protist infestation.

And after day 1 of the blackout I have no news to report. I have barely even peeked inside the tank, only to make sure there was nothing dead floating around. After day 3 I'll remove some covering and take a few pictures to post.

[Rickyrooz1]

I started H2O2 dosing today, 0.5mL per 10 gallons the first two days then bump up to 1mL per 10 gallons until day 8. There is a huge thread on reef two reef and a lot of people are having success within three days.

[Knox_Legend]

I was amazed at my results with the peroxide dosing. I was a little worried at first about using it but nothing has happend to any corals or fish just no more dinos. I'm not sure about long term if its gone but I'm up to 6 hours a day on my lights and feeding fish lightly and no dinos yet.

[TimeConsumer]

48 hours into the blackout and here's how it looks:

There has been a big decline in the amount of dinos, but some still remain.
Here's some images of what is still hanging on. Sorry for the bad quality of the shots, I didn't want to remove any of the cardboard so I took them through the water's surface.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/steveo331/IMG_2035.jpg
The spraybar above looks mostly cleaned, but the highlighted spots still have a little growth left, I think this was due to a small light leak that I covered up.

http://i1205.photobucket.com/albums/bb434/steveo331/IMG_2044.jpg
Above, there's still some on the wall of the refugium as well. This also may be due to a light leak so I added in a little more cardboard.

So far it looks like I'll be going beyond a 3 day blackout. As this rate it will take more than another 24 hours to eliminate what is left.

I also want to begin dosing peroxide, what % solution should be used with the 1ml/10g rule of thumb?

[gte539f]

In my experience the blackouts and not doing any WC's for a while helped me get rid of dinos...

[beastrx]

I think the blackout and your other plans will work out well, I looked at all of your info and IMO you are running the lights too long to begin with. I would reduce them to 5 or 6 hours per day after the blackout and then slowly increase them to 8 or 9 hours total. Maybe 10 hours max.

[TimeConsumer]

I think the blackout and your other plans will work out well, I looked at all of your info and IMO you are running the lights too long to begin with. I would reduce them to 5 or 6 hours per day after the blackout and then slowly increase them to 8 or 9 hours total. Maybe 10 hours max.

Noted. Before the blackout it was 10 hours on all 4 bulbs with a 1 hour dawn/dusk cycle on either end, for a total of 12 hours. I may decide to bring it down to 10 with the dawn dusk after the blackout.

[TimeConsumer]

I pulled off the coverings yesterday at 5pm for a total of a 96 hour blackout. Slowly ramping up the lights to full intensity over the next few days. Everything looks great, but I'm going to keep a close eye on it for the next few days to see if anything shows up. I also started a light hydrogen peroxide dosing during the last 2 days of the blackout. I will continue this for the next week as I monitor the progress. I'll post some pictures tomorrow of what the tank looks like.