I have heard......

[SIR PATRICK]

I was involved in a short discussion tonight, and figured i would see if I could get some thoughts/experiances on the subject.

I heard-

A lineaged named polyp (no matter what name, color, ect.) it is, will look the exact same in different tanks, conditions and regions, and light intensity, (excluding color spectrum of the lighting of course) and will not change.

I also heard that a polyp will only change (color, size, skirt lenght, ect) if it is unhealthy or stressed.

Your thoughts? I know my thoughts and experiances on the subject, but would like to hear more......after all- I could be wrong.

[The Escaped Ape]

I doubt that. Polyps will readily change from one tank to another (Tubbs Blues in my tank look quite different to how they did in the tank of the friend I got them from under his LEDs). I've also seen with my own eyes how the intensity of the color, length of skirt etc will change with positioning (i.e. light intensity) and flow.

But maybe I'm misunderstanding you..

[organism]

I heard-

A lineaged named polyp (no matter what name, color, ect.) it is, will look the exact same in different tanks, conditions and regions, and light intensity, (excluding color spectrum of the lighting of course) and will not change.

I also heard that a polyp will only change (color, size, skirt lenght, ect) if it is unhealthy or stressed.

It's true. Also, skittles can be used instead of activated carbon.

[MUCHO REEF]

[QUOTE=SIR PATRICK;19170062]A lineaged named polyp (no matter what name, color, ect.) it is, will look the exact same in different tanks, conditions and regions, and light intensity, (excluding color spectrum of the lighting of course) and will not change.

I also heard that a polyp will only change (color, size, skirt lenght, ect) if it is unhealthy or stressed.

QUOTE]


REALLY? Sir Patrick, not sure where this came from my friend, but there is not one scintilla of truth to any of the statement you were given above. It should be added to the long list of other myths in the link below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1590992&highlight=myth

Lineage was born/created in 2007 as a marketing ploy to extract more money from unsuspecting buyers who were convinced they were getting some ultra-strain of Green Porcupine Nipple Palys thus more valuable, NOT TRUE :D I have shared this with every newbie I have encountered since 2007. Lineage means absolutely nothing and was only created after these per polyp sky high price began in 2006. See link below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1272388&highlight=lineage


Zooxanthellae, tank parameters, tank maturity, placement/positioning, current, bulb type, wattage, K value, PAR, ballast, nutrients and over all husbandry will dictate and determine coloration, health, skirt lenght, growth and size etc and even whether or not the polyp will live or die. No two systems are alike, each will yield differently.


"I also heard that a polyp will only change (color, size, skirt lenght, ect) if it is unhealthy or stressed"


Sure that is true, but not solely. The problem is with the word "ONLY". The inverse is also true, a polyp will increase in size and diameter, it will have improved coloration and intensity and also skirt lenght with improved current, optimal lighting, great parameters and in an aged system etc etc etc.

In short, I agree with the 2 gentlemen's statements above me.


Mucho Reef

[rysher]

all i can say:

WTFOMGROFLMAO

[650-IS350]

I don't go on here anymore as I tire of all the hype, pricing, LE/limited edition BS blah blah blah stuff that I see now a days. But I got some time at work and will chime in a little

Lineage IMO is just a way of saying your Eagle Eye that you got which was taken from the same region that the first colony of eagle eyes were collected from is not exact nor worth as much as the 1st piece just because it wasn't from that persons originally collected brood stock of colony.... just because it doesn’t have SO and SO' name stamped on by the 1st person to have received the 1st EE polyps and named them your EXACT piece in some peoples eyes isn’t worth a lick.

A lot of people expect others to follow that and truly believe that. BUT to me that's just a marketing ploy for getting as much $$$$$ for resale or trade.

Their corals and come out of the same areas... it's not like it’s a Picasso painting that is one of a kind or 1 of a few EVER out there, or it was a limited production creation that won't be produced again. This is a creature that was sourced from the reef which will also be available in other reefs in surrounding areas or regions which that animal may be able to live and propagate.

It’s like giving a WORD guarantee that if you buy this specific polyp that it’s going to look exactly what I have in my tank.. REGARDLESS whether if I am running 300 watt LEDs, 20K 600watt radium’s with actinic or 12 T5s in the bluer spectrum that when you get a polyp from my tank and place it in yours that doesn’t have the same environment as mine that it will be the same is LAUGHABLE.

Just like when so polyp came out and it was nice, so someone threw out a price of 200-300, since it was the first one out there that was just collected and coined with a catchy name everyone thought hey this polyp IS worth 300 cause someone is asking for that price while every other polyp/colony doesn’t even come close to that price, then some want to be quick buck Joe will grab it, try to grow em as fast as he can so that he can frag it right away, market it out to the public as hey I’m selling the polyp received from the originator, this polyp is also worth 300 so that he came make up for the price he paid for and make more from the polyps that grow from that piece. By doing this he/she can now pay for the NEXT big new named polyp regardless of what ever ridiculous asking price it is as they can now afford to overpay with any amount as they can recoup that by growing it out as fast as they can, frag it, market it with the LINEAGED to the originator tag, sell for the same outrageous amount then do the same thing over again to the next new hyped piece.

Now a days its so blatant, same looking polyps being coined different catchy names with LE, Rare, one of a kind tagged on them to get the most $$$$$$$$$ outta them. Heck look at today’s known ID sites, every freaking Z’s and P’s have to have a name???? really even but ugly hardly any color/design polyp has a name cause every dick and harry wants to be like quick buck joe to be able to have his/her name or to be able to be known as the person that named so and so polyp……

I think in no time we will start to see " NEW NEVER SEEN BEFORE " polyps coined with another crazy stupid name and asking/sold for a couple thousand for 1 polyp. But hey it's a hobby right, or don't buy it if you can't afford it right.......... SMH

Like it was mentioned by the other gentlemen, lighting schemes, tank parameters, flow, characteristics, environment will all take into account how your coral will look. Just because it will look one way in ones tank will NEVER guarantee that said piece will always be the same in others and will NEVER morph to something better or worse and guarantee of survival from one tank to the other.

Sorry rambling, every time I see the word with Z's and P's , lineage, rare, one of a kind etc etc... it just irks the living ISH' outta me.

Man those threads bring back old memories when I used to have all these crazy looking UN-NAMED Z's and P's that would have rivaled these NAMED polyps that cost an arm and a leg for 1 polyp and I got them cheap by the colony. SMH. We had more people back then more interested in the HOBBY than making $$$$, known for having their name on a polyp, be like the Jone's etc etc.

BTW- not aiming to biting anyone's head off nor directly at anyone. Just wrote it in general as to what has been happening and has happened to the Z's and P's hobby.

Pat' your a stand up dude.

[650-IS350]

interesting read... oldie but goodie

http://glassbox-design.com/2010/arbi...-coral-prices/

[MikeandNicole]

Yeah I have had zoas change appearence in the same tank depending on the placement. Literally I am talking two frags of the same zoas at different levels and looking different.

It sounds like something that is trying to be added to justify some of the prices out there.

[MUCHO REEF]

interesting read... Oldie but goodie

http://glassbox-design.com/2010/arbi...-coral-prices/



Bad link Charles

[650-IS350]

http://glassbox-design.com/2010/arbitrary-coherence-coral-prices/

[A. Grandis]

It's true. Also, skittles can be used instead of activated carbon.

Cow milk instead Kalkwasser in the kalk reactor.
Sugar instead aragonite as a substrate (that would be sugar size already, right?).

I'll just watch for the answers this time.
:rollface:

Grandis.

[MUCHO REEF]

I was involved in a short discussion tonight, and figured i would see if I could get some thoughts/experiances on the subject.

I heard-

A lineaged named polyp (no matter what name, color, ect.) it is, will look the exact same in different tanks, conditions and regions, and light intensity, (excluding color spectrum of the lighting of course) and will not change.

I also heard that a polyp will only change (color, size, skirt lenght, ect) if it is unhealthy or stressed.

Your thoughts? I know my thoughts and experiances on the subject, but would like to hear more......after all- I could be wrong.



I would really be interested in knowing how they came to those conclusions and what did they based them on.

Thanks for sharing BTW.

Mucho Reef

[SIR PATRICK]

So far, it looks like I havnt completely lost my mind, and gone numb in the head.......Thank goodness! I was worried there for a minute. I have been away from the place I learned just about everything I know about polyps from for a while- HERE!


Thank you guys from clearing this up for me. I see nothing less than screen names I can count on for the the best info there is available on the subject of polyps and their attributes. I am looking forward to hearing from everyone else to- from all levels of experiance in the zoanthid keeping hobby, as I was under the impression that tank conditions, water quality, flow and parameter causing polyps to morph, but still be the exact same polyp it started as, weather it has lineage or not, was common knowledge.

Lets put Hyping, Pricing, LE/limited edition BS blah blah blah stuff to the side here, for just a bit.......not saying it might not have a thing or two to do with it, and focus on the misinformation side of the statement.

I am looking for experiences, examples and everyones input on this subject.

Has anyone ever gotten a lineaged polyp, that the color dulled? Gotten brighter? Had the skirts shorten/elongate? Had the heads get smaller, or much larger than normal? Changed hue? Or anything else? Again, excluding the fact that the lighting spectrum itself has made it look different, while its in the tank?

Looking forward to hearing more......and during this reply- I just recalled another topic I was wondering about, during the same conversation. I will be posting that topic shortly.

Hope to get many more responces on this topic, weather you agree or disagree- I want to hear it. I know that sometimes whats been already posted sums up with what you would post......and if it does, a +1 to agree with what has already been posted helps and counts, for me anyways.

[organism]

Has anyone ever gotten a lineaged polyp, that the color dulled? Gotten brighter? Had the skirts shorten/elongate? Had the heads get smaller, or much larger than normal? Changed hue? Or anything else? Again, excluding the fact that the lighting spectrum itself has made it look different, while its in the tank?

"lineaged" is just another word for "captive raised but 10x the price", so as far as captive raised I've had some change color, size, shape, skirt length, skirt color, etc, for random reasons. I have some frags I made growing out in my tank right now and they and the colony are on the sandbed.

So get this, of that same captive raised zoanthid there are three different color variations just from different spots of the same sandbed. Like 6" apart and some have less skirt color, others have the centers a ton brighter, and others have shorter skirts. Corals are weird, they do what they want and some clown's "lineage" isn't going to change that... but it will flatten your wallet if you believe his bs :)

[SIR PATRICK]

Well said Organism!

As well as Grandis, Escaped Ape, Charles, and Mike.

Reading between the lines, I can even agree with Rysher, I am sure.

I appreciate the well thought out responces so far.

[Nicodemayo]

It's true. Also, skittles can be used instead of activated carbon.

Hahah be careful organism, this guy might take you seriously.

[SIR PATRICK]

I have been running skittles in my reactor for years......

[PR_Reefers]

Hahah be careful organism, this guy might take you seriously.

Where are you getting at? you seriously didn't know about the skittles? I thought everyone ran skittles in their reactor! ....:lolspin:lol

[CCarlson]

In my mind, theres absolutly no way that this can be possible.

Theres no way that (most) zoas wont change colorations at least slightly.

[SIR PATRICK]

REALLY? Sir Patrick, not sure where this came from my friend, but there is not one scintilla of truth to any of the statement you were given above. It should be added to the long list of other myths in the link below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...highlight=myth

Lineage was born/created in 2007 as a marketing ploy to extract more money from unsuspecting buyers who were convinced they were getting some ultra-strain of Green Porcupine Nipple Palys thus more valuable, NOT TRUE I have shared this with every newbie I have encountered since 2007. Lineage means absolutely nothing and was only created after these per polyp sky high price began in 2006. See link below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/sh...hlight=lineage


Zooxanthellae, tank parameters, tank maturity, placement/positioning, current, bulb type, wattage, K value, PAR, ballast, nutrients and over all husbandry will dictate and determine coloration, health, skirt lenght, growth and size etc and even whether or not the polyp will live or die. No two systems are alike, each will yield differently.


"I also heard that a polyp will only change (color, size, skirt lenght, ect) if it is unhealthy or stressed"


Sure that is true, but not solely. The problem is with the word "ONLY". The inverse is also true, a polyp will increase in size and diameter, it will have improved coloration and intensity and also skirt lenght with improved current, optimal lighting, great parameters and in an aged system etc etc etc.

In short, I agree with the 2 gentlemen's statements above me.


Mucho Reef

Thx for the links, to further reinforce my thoughts! I can always count on you to provide not only excellent info, but further info to back it up!

[djneedledamage]

I have some Happy People Eaters or whatever you want to call them. That look totally different than my rest of them in the same conditions, different lighting. I am wondering if they graduated to those Adam Sandler Palys yet, lol.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/1fish_2006/happy-2.jpg

[MUCHO REEF]

So far, it looks like I havnt completely lost my mind, and gone numb in the head.......Thank goodness! I was worried there for a minute. I have been away from the place I learned just about everything I know about polyps from for a while- HERE!


Thank you guys from clearing this up for me. I see nothing less than screen names I can count on for the the best info there is available on the subject of polyps and their attributes. I am looking forward to hearing from everyone else to- from all levels of experiance in the zoanthid keeping hobby, as I was under the impression that tank conditions, water quality, flow and parameter causing polyps to morph, but still be the exact same polyp it started as, weather it has lineage or not, was common knowledge.


LOL, my friend, no, you haven't lost your mind, LOL. Look at your post # 6 in the link below.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1566127&highlight=morphing

Nothing has changed, even with the advent of HYPED lineage, what you believed in 2009, still holds true today my friend.


Trust me, throw the word lineage out the window. It means absolutely nothing other than what has already been stated. Over the years, I have spoken with reefers needing help with their so called LINEAGED polyps. They were told they were pure yadda yadda yadda, and they too experienced a major color shift, size and some even lost their specks and morphed into rings. This is true with any polyp. In fact, we actually discussed this at lenght right here in this forum. There were even those who were intentionally creating color shifts with intense lighting.



Lets put Hyping, Pricing, LE/limited edition BS blah blah blah stuff to the side here, for just a bit.......not saying it might not have a thing or two to do with it, and focus on the misinformation side of the statement.

I am looking for experiences, examples and everyones input on this subject.

Has anyone ever gotten a lineaged polyp, that the color dulled? Gotten brighter? Had the skirts shorten/elongate? Had the heads get smaller, or much larger than normal? Changed hue? Or anything else? Again, excluding the fact that the lighting spectrum itself has made it look different, while its in the tank?


I have never owned one to my knowledge as when I hear the word or someone discussing it in person, I walk away as quickly as possible. Any polyp can change it characteristics with environmental influence.....any polyp !!!!! There are tons of threads right here in this forum. Just search on morphing, color shift and bleaching

Looking forward to hearing more......and during this reply- I just recalled another topic I was wondering about, during the same conversation. I will be posting that topic shortly.

Hope to get many more responces on this topic, weather you agree or disagree- I want to hear it. I know that sometimes whats been already posted sums up with what you would post......and if it does, a +1 to agree with what has already been posted helps and counts, for me anyways.


Good discussion BTW.

[The Escaped Ape]

I have been running skittles in my reactor for years......

The important thing is to ensure you have skittles that match the colors you want to really "pop". For some of the more unusual zoa color combinations, you might have to put some Tropical or Wild Berry skittles in the reactor.

[MUCHO REEF]

I have some Happy People Eaters or whatever you want to call them. That look totally different than my rest of them in the same conditions, different lighting. I am wondering if they graduated to those Adam Sandler Palys yet, lol.

http://i93.photobucket.com/albums/l62/1fish_2006/happy-2.jpg

We hear you loud and clear, thanks for sharing that.