Honestly im kinda confused now.

[beach138]

Hello. Well my story goes like this. I was into salt water many years ago for a very short period. Fell on rough times and relocated, bills etc.. I finally am straight in my personal life now and have begun to get back into the hobby. I have been researching things for about a month now on a daily basis. I have purchased my tank (40 breeder) that I chose to fit my buget and space allotted. This tank also has lots of surface area and is shallow to allow for deeper light penitration. I have also built a DIY stand. This is the point I am at right now.
My confusion at this point comes with the plethera of information on the WWW about saltwater tanks and reef keeping. One article says one thing and another will state the EXACT oppisite. My journey into this hobby is to enjoy the build and watching my tank grow from basically nothing to a fully living enviroment. Now I am in absolutly NO rush to make this happen and as a matter of fact I allotted myself about a six month time frame before my system is fully operational and begin the cycle.
My two MAIN confusion areas at this point right now are FLOW rates and Sump/Refugium/Skimmer setup.
Minimum of 10X flow rate through main tank is what I have on average read mostly. Some say more some say less. I have comunicated with an online dealer and have decided to drill and install an overflow as apposed to the PVC elbow turned upside down. I can achieve a flow rate of 700GPH with this overflow and it utilizes a 1.5 inch bulkhead to achieve this 700 GPH flow rate. Does this in fact make it nessesary that I will now need to install a 1.5 inch bulkhead for my return line or will a one inch be suffifient to achieve the 400 GPH Minimum??
Sump/Refugium/Skimmer.. WOW I tell ya I have read and absorbed so many different things about this subject that I am basically LOST on this area of the tank. The majority of material I found says dont even bother with a refugium if it isnt at minimum 20% of your total volume. Bubble traps, filter media, carbon there are so many different things to be said about this that I really dont know what path to follow.
So heres what I have come up with from my information and please feel free to criteque my design...
Main Tank 40 gallon breeder with sand base and 40 lbs dry rock. Drilled tank with overflow box and 1.5inch bulkhead. plummed to a 20 gallon long sump tank flowing into a filter sock. Bubble Magus BM-NAC5E HOB of Sump skimmer (to allow for more room in sump for refigium compartment) pulling water from LEFT intake compartment and returning water to MIDDLE output to tank compartment. The RIGHT compartment will be a small refugium that is fed by a lower flow rate pump that is fed out of the middle compartment and flowed through refugium and back into middle retun compartment. My return line to tank will be made of 1 inch line and one inch bulkheads but im not sure if this will axhieve my minimum of 400 GPH or is that based off what pump I chose to use not the actual bulkhead?
Thanks for your help and input because im just comfused now.
Thank You.

[Virtuoso]

Ok, forgive me while I try to sort through your post. In the future bullet points or paragraphs may make it easier to read and more people may reply. I am going to steal a page out of snorvich's book and just type my answers in-line with your post. I think you are on the right track. I think you'd probably benefit most by browsing build threads for another month or so as you seem to have a decent grasp on the concepts. A really helpful member of the RC team, Toddrtrex has a very informative 40b build thread here. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1970242

Hello. Well my story goes like this. I was into salt water many years ago for a very short period. Fell on rough times and relocated, bills etc.. I finally am straight in my personal life now and have begun to get back into the hobby. I have been researching things for about a month now on a daily basis. I have purchased my tank (40 breeder) that I chose to fit my buget and space allotted. This tank also has lots of surface area and is shallow to allow for deeper light penitration. I have also built a DIY stand. This is the point I am at right now.
My confusion at this point comes with the plethera of information on the WWW about saltwater tanks and reef keeping. One article says one thing and another will state the EXACT oppisite. My journey into this hobby is to enjoy the build and watching my tank grow from basically nothing to a fully living enviroment. Now I am in absolutly NO rush to make this happen and as a matter of fact I allotted myself about a six month time frame before my system is fully operational and begin the cycle.
My two MAIN confusion areas at this point right now are FLOW rates and Sump/Refugium/Skimmer setup.
Minimum of 10X flow rate through main tank is what I have on average read mostly. Some say more some say less. Sounds about right. You do not need a lot of flow through your sump at all. I have comunicated with an online dealer and have decided to drill and install an overflow as apposed to the PVC elbow turned upside down. I can achieve a flow rate of 700GPH with this overflow and it utilizes a 1.5 inch bulkhead to achieve this 700 GPH flow rate. Does this in fact make it nessesary that I will now need to install a 1.5 inch bulkhead for my return line or will a one inch be suffifient to achieve the 400 GPH Minimum?? One thing to keep in mind is that the holes are different sizes than the PVC that is going through them. You can read a similar question I had here, with some answers - http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1978364
Sump/Refugium/Skimmer.. WOW I tell ya I have read and absorbed so many different things about this subject that I am basically LOST on this area of the tank. The majority of material I found says dont even bother with a refugium if it isnt at minimum 20% of your total volume. Bubble traps, filter media, carbon there are so many different things to be said about this that I really dont know what path to follow.
So heres what I have come up with from my information and please feel free to criteque my design... Just a quick comment on the refugium, even if you ignore all the other benefits my refugium is full of life and allows a place for pods to grow for my eventual Mandarin Goby
Main Tank 40 gallon breeder with sand base and 40 lbs dry rock. Drilled tank with overflow box and 1.5inch bulkhead. plummed to a 20 gallon long sump tank flowing into a filter sock. Bubble Magus BM-NAC5E HOB of Sump skimmer (to allow for more room in sump for refigium compartment) pulling water from LEFT intake compartment and returning water to MIDDLE output to tank compartment. The RIGHT compartment will be a small refugium that is fed by a lower flow rate pump that is fed out of the middle compartment and flowed through refugium and back into middle retun compartment. My return line to tank will be made of 1 inch line and one inch bulkheads but im not sure if this will axhieve my minimum of 400 GPH or is that based off what pump I chose to use not the actual bulkhead? This sounds a little more complicated than it should be, to me. Maybe I am misunderstanding. I would definitely get an in-sump protein skimmer as they tend to be quite a bit better. You do not need the output of the skimmer to output to another compartment, the water will flow over the baffles by itself. I would then say put a small refugium, then some baffles, then the return.
Thanks for your help and input because im just comfused now.
Thank You.

[kcinnick]

There is a lot of outdated info on the net, and a million ways to do a saltwater tank right. (A billion ways to go wrong also). Don't worry too much about hitting every rule of thumb you see.

[daplatapus]

One thing that I was confused about early on too, and maybe you are as well, is those tank flow numbers are total flow, not what is running through your sump. If you have a 1400 gph power head in your display tank, and a 700 gph return pump, that is a total of 2100 gph flowing through your tank but only 700 gph through your sump.
HTH

[beach138]

Thanks for the replies.

Virtuoso, Im still a little confused about the bulkheads. I know what size holes I have but the main question is does my intake and return bulkhead need to be the same size? If I have a 1.5 bulkhead for drain is a one inch bulkhead ok for return?

For the refugium im basically understanding that no matter what size it is its a benifit to have. IE Pods, Macro and more LR and sand. No matter what I cant go wrong with a refugium.

I read somewhere that on the skimmer it was more benificial to have the skimmer output to a different section than its intake to eliminate re-skimming of the same water. Is this NOT nessesary?

daplatapus has cleared up the GPH flow for me as it would include powerheads too. So Should I go with the 300 GPH or 700 GPH overflow?

[Palting]

Thanks for the replies.

Virtuoso, Im still a little confused about the bulkheads. I know what size holes I have but the main question is does my intake and return bulkhead need to be the same size? If I have a 1.5 bulkhead for drain is a one inch bulkhead ok for return?

I know this wasn't directed to me, but, yes, that's fine. It's normal for the low pressure drain to be larger than the higher pressure return.

For the refugium im basically understanding that no matter what size it is its a benifit to have. IE Pods, Macro and more LR and sand. No matter what I cant go wrong with a refugium.
Absolutely.

I read somewhere that on the skimmer it was more benificial to have the skimmer output to a different section than its intake to eliminate re-skimming of the same water. Is this NOT nessesary?
Maybe beneficial, but not necessary. It obviously depends on the skimmer design, but you still want the uptake upstream and the output downstream.

daplatapus has cleared up the GPH flow for me as it would include powerheads too. So Should I go with the 300 GPH or 700 GPH overflow?
I would go with the 700 gph. You may want to plumb it differently in the future, and it's nice to have that extra capacity. As an example, you may want a remote refugium, and can still tee-off that drain siunce it has that added capacity. BTW, that's how I'd plumb your current sump design. Rather than putting a pump from the central section to feed the refugium, I would just tee-off the drain and run one to the refugium section, flow controlled with a ball valve. Less pumps, less electricity, less heat, plus you avoid the theoretical disadvantage of recirculating flow of refugium to central section to refugium to central section etc, etc.

[daplatapus]

Good morning,
Your return and intake DO NOT have to be the same size. I'm fairly new to this as well, but I believe since the return is under pressure from the pump it will supply lots of flow to your tank. The drain, being gravity fed is typically larger.

IMHO, you can't go wrong with a refugium, there are tons of benefits, the larger the better, but small is better than none.

As far as the skimmer output being in the same chamber, I've heard arguments both ways. Yes, if the skimmer output goes back into the skimmer chamber there will be some short cycling of that water. But there is the thought out there that since there is flow through that section anyway, most of the freshly skimmed water will flow out. Piping the skimmed water out of that section is probably more efficient, but not completely necessary. I guess much would depend on your configuration and how much room you have.

Total flow for your tank is really going to be based on what you are going to have in your tank. FOWLR will be different than if you have LPS corals and different again if you're planning SPS. I've heard that through your sump you should try around 4X your tank volume an hour, in your tank at least 10, 20X for LPS and up to 30-40X for SPS.

If anyone sees something I've missed or needs correcting, please do so, it'll help me too.

[beach138]

Ok all awesome information and I seem to be on track. The other thing I'm still contemplating is over flow placement and return. My guess is that the overflow would best benifit tank placed in the back middle and the return on either back corner. Correct?

[sucker_fish]

with having a 1.5 inch drain you could do a 1 inch return probably even a 3/4 inch return for that size tank.

[beach138]

I already have one inch bulkheads and glass bit so for return I will stick with that.

[Palting]

Ok all awesome information and I seem to be on track. The other thing I'm still contemplating is over flow placement and return. My guess is that the overflow would best benifit tank placed in the back middle and the return on either back corner. Correct?

There are a variety of ways to do it. I personally would prefer the return and drain in the same spot, maybe a corner, and have the return nozzle directed away from the drain. This way, the water from the return has to go completely around the tank before making it back to the drain. That's how I made my remote refugium.

[blt]

Ok all awesome information and I seem to be on track. The other thing I'm still contemplating is over flow placement and return. My guess is that the overflow would best benifit tank placed in the back middle and the return on either back corner. Correct?

Pretty much. Placing the overflow in the corner would reduce the surface skimming effect compared to back-middle.

[beach138]

I believe that a 20 gallon long with small refugium is my best choice right now due to budget and space allotted. I wish the 20 long were a little deeper though. If and when I am sussesful at what I have now I can always upgrade. Probably better to keep things simple at first.

[Virtuoso]

I would go with the biggest sump that your stand allows. It is a pain to change down the road and the cost difference between tanks at that size is marginal at best.

[beach138]

Yes I live in an apartment building so I kind of need to keep it all scaled down a bit. A 20 long will fit in my stand perfectly.