Just Saying.... White Anemone's...

[Reef1589]

So, ive been sitting here, and in alot of threads lately ive been reading alot.. about the debate between White Anemone's and their health, i've learned alot about their photosynthesis process and how they feed themsevles.. needless to say, i love reading about anemones and how they do what they do..

SO i thought i would make this thread... a friendly discussion thread about white anemone's... All the information you need to know about white anemone's... it seems some people strongly beleive their are white anemone's... others beleive their arent..

is 100% white nearly impossible? due to the blocking of sunlight? is the closest you can get to white that baige hugh?

imo, i would say there probably arent any white anemone's in the trade, but i could imagine there being white anemone's in the wild.. i've found some pictures, idk if they are real or fake.. but just to throw some fire into the debate..

i enjoy reading what people have to say.. and thought possibly bringing the debate off posts and onto its own posts.. :) for referance for people to look back on maybe? :P


oh ya, pictures go a long way too.. just sayin :)

[Cliff519]

I have seen a anemone that looked white in our LFS. It was a solid white color, like milk. With the debate that has gone on about white or bleached, I past on the anemone. If I can't tell, I will leave that guy for a owner who can tell the difference

I too am interested to hear about what others think

[this is me]

I believe in gray anemone, not white.

[bradleym]

I have owned BTAs and a rock anemone that had large patches of white pigmentation, but there was always the brown underneath/inside, and there was never a completely white anemone in the group. The BTA was a GBTA, but had large patches of opaque white as well as green. The rock nem had a solid white oral disc but brown tentacles.

In my experience, all light processing anemones have to have the brown color inside the tentacles. If they are healthy and in a well-lit tank, the pigmentation gets to be nearly opaque, but the brown is still inside even though you can't see it. Just my experience, and this has no bearing at all on non-photosynthetic anemones. :)

[bradleym]

Ah yes, pics.

Here's the BTA.

https://lh6.googleusercontent.com/-Fo_E7T5W7V4/Tl7qIndhZeI/AAAAAAAABZY/mxLTPsq0oys/s800/IMG-20110320-00546.jpg

Here's the rock anemone

https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/-Jm0-oQ39q6w/Tl7pmejVZvI/AAAAAAAABZQ/i6RcPEOgilw/s800/IMG-20110629-00273.jpg

And as luck would have it, I made a mistake and so, long story short, here is the same anemone after being bleached. Please note the pigmentation is intact, but the zooxanthellae is completely gone, and so the brown parts are now transparent white.

https://lh4.googleusercontent.com/-rB-TsPiQfiA/Tl7jGPRl7uI/AAAAAAAABZI/pNIPJ8OT5as/s800/IMG-20110831-00209.jpg

I hope this helps. :)

[garygb]

Ditto to what Bradley said/demonstrated. I have some flower anemones that are also pigmented white, but there are still areas where the anemone is dark. I don't think the opaque white color obviates zooxanthellae colonization directly below the white areas (I'm not sure of this, but it seems that would defeat the purpose of having zooxanthellae if pigmentation is going to shade to the point of eliminating zoox). In the hosting species, I have only seen relatively small areas of white pigmentation. For instance, my BTAs have streaks of white on the oral disk in proximity to the mouth, and my GBTAs also have it on tentacle tips. So for host species, I don't know of true white specimens. And just because an anemone is photographed in the wild does not mean it isn't bleached. Bleaching happens when the ocean temps exceed "safe" levels.

[rssjsb]

I think one thing that confuses people is that most bleached anemones you see are transparent to some degree, but the bleached crispas and malus that turn up in stores appear opaque.

I'll say this - I have never seen anyone on this forum who has had one of those anemones retain the white color long term. People occasionally post to say they have seen healthy white nems, but my guess is that they either die or recover their tan color and we just never hear from those people again. Maybe someone will post evidence to the contrary.

As Gary and Bradley say, some rock/flower anemones have white on them. Mags sometimes have white tips, too. But the rest of the anemone has some other pigment.

By the way, I've seen the kind of white markings on BTAs like the ones shown in Bradley's picture, but it went away over time also. Notice, it's not on all of the tentacles. I think it's actually an injury.

[Reef1589]

this may be a dumb question.. and i could just be thinking of it in the wrong way...
but why doesnt white allow light in? ... i would think white would allow light in more so than other colors.. ?

idk im just a little confused as to why white pigment will block all the light and green pigment or purple pigment wont.. or red pigment wont..

[garygb]

Reef1589, white would reflect more of the light than other colors (that's what white is, all the colors being reflected back); however, I believe some light, albeit reduced, is likely penetrating into the anemone. If an anemone is red, like with an RBTA, then the color you see is the wavelength that is being reflected--the same holds true with yellow, green, etc.

[Reef1589]

Reef1589, white would reflect more of the light than other colors (that's what white is, all the colors being reflected back); however, I believe some light, albeit reduced, is likely penetrating into the anemone. If an anemone is red, like with an RBTA, then the color you see is the wavelength that is being reflected--the same holds true with yellow, green, etc.

if i woulda knew i was gonna grow up and get this much into reef tanks, i woulda paid attention in all my science classes hahaa... i slightly remember this all :P shoulda remembered haha

[garygb]

Yeah, it's interesting. Flower anemones often have large areas of white on them, opaque white. It would be interesting to find out for sure whether there is actually zooxanthellae beneath those white areas. I assume there is, but I haven't read confirmation of that from someone who has investigated and taken tissue samples beneath the white and "counted" the zooxanthellae populations.

[bradleym]

Yeah, it's interesting. Flower anemones often have large areas of white on them, opaque white. It would be interesting to find out for sure whether there is actually zooxanthellae beneath those white areas. I assume there is, but I haven't read confirmation of that from someone who has investigated and taken tissue samples beneath the white and "counted" the zooxanthellae populations.

+1 someone grab a syringe!

If there were NO zooxanthellae under there, it seems to me that would pretty much bury the debate on photosynthetic, healthy, all-white anemones. I doubt that's the case, but still, very interesting!

[ReeferBill]

The first two anenomes I bought were both white from being bleached due to rough handling. They both gradually become brown . The long tentacled anem got nice green tips but I lost the seabay when I upgraded to a 75 gallon reef.The log tentacle is still alive but the seabay was stuck to the bottom of the tank and I may have damaged its foot when I pryed him off. He did not survive the move and slowly melted away. I wish I had left him in that other tank.... But ever since raising my own bleached out anenomes I believe all healthy anenomes have some sort of colored symbiotic zooexanthelia algea inside...If they do have some white external coloring I think it is only on the surface and depends on its own genetics for that. Good Thread...Happy Reefing111:rollface:

[jeff@zina.com]

There are some condylactis that are pretty darned white, but there's still a hint of color somewhere, usually tips. Any pure white anemone would have to have the zooxanthelle bleached out, in my opinion. The big issue with aquariums is there is no zooxanthelle just floating around for the anemone to recover, when it's gone, it's gone.

Captive clam farmers face a similar issue, the clams don't have a source of zooxanthelle. That means they can't survive. In clam farming, you simply run a healthy clam through a blender and pour it into the tank. The zooxanthelle gets used by the new clams and then multiplies in the clam. The blended clam, naturally, no longer needs it.

Jeff

[kduen]

This is the only mention of a Naturally occurring white anemone that I have ever seen. It is in the S. Mertensii section. I have been looking for this for the last couple of days since this thread got started.

http://www.wetwebmedia.com/ca/volume_6/volume_6_3/capranem.html

[Reef1589]

The big issue with aquariums is there is no zooxanthelle just floating around for the anemone to recover, when it's gone, it's gone.

Captive clam farmers face a similar issue, the clams don't have a source of zooxanthelle. That means they can't survive. In clam farming, you simply run a healthy clam through a blender and pour it into the tank. The zooxanthelle gets used by the new clams and then multiplies in the clam. The blended clam, naturally, no longer needs it.

Jeff

i see that being very pollutive...

so your telling me if i got 3 bleached s. gig's... i should take a healthy anemone... and put it in a blender, and those zoo's will then go to the bleached anemone's?

that seems a little unorthadox..
i thought Zoo's were created by the anem itself, not free floating bacteria

[phender]

i see that being very pollutive...

so your telling me if i got 3 bleached s. gig's... i should take a healthy anemone... and put it in a blender, and those zoo's will then go to the bleached anemone's?

that seems a little unorthadox..
i thought Zoo's were created by the anem itself, not free floating bacteria

Zooxanthellae like any other living organism must come for other zooxanthellae. They are not produced by the anemones, coral, clams, etc. The good thing about them however is that very seldom do anemones expel all of their zooxanthellae when they bleach. They usually have enough left over to repopulate the anemone when conditions get better. So, no you don't have to blend up a healthy anemone to save 3 bleached ones. :)

I have a few pics of wild anemones that (to me at least) look to be white and are not bleached. Other's opinions may differ. One is a carpet anemone, haddoni I think, that has white tentacle tips, but normal colored(tan) tentacles. The other is a H. crispa that appears to have an opaque white pigment rather than bleached (no pigment at all) tentacles. Unfortunately, I have them on my home computer, so posting the pics will have to wait a little bit.

[phender]

I have posted these before, but it may have been a while. Sorry for the poor quality. These pics were taken off a dvd by photographing my computer monitor while on pause. All anemones are growing wild in the Marshall Islands. This video was taken before a bleaching event that happened several years later.

This is a white S. haddoni. It has white pigment where normally there would be green, blue, purple, etc. When carpets bleach they still keep the color on their tentacle tips. It this one were to bleach it would look like a ghost anemone.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=678&pictureid=34906

These next two anemones are H. crispa. To me the first one seems to have a white pigment to its tentacles. I have seen bleached crispas whose tentacles are translucent white. This one seems to be white because it has white pigment, not because it is lacking pigment.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=678&pictureid=34907

Another white H. crispa. This one looks like the tentacles are shorter than they should be, which tells me its under some stress. It could be that it is a small anemone that is getting beat up trying to host two adult size chrysopterus or it could be bleached, but again, the tentacles are white, not translucent. You may see it differently than me.
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/picture.php?albumid=678&pictureid=34908

[kduen]

In the first pic of the S. Haddoni it almost looks like pink verracue not the translucent color of the base that they usually are. I know for me to be able to see mine I have to look at the right angle to see the raised colorless spots.

[BonsaiNut]

Phil, in my personal opinion the last two are bleached crispas. These are not rare in the hobby, and in fact are seen frequently. I have yet to see a healthy crispa with white pigmentation. Doesn't mean one doesn't exist, but I have yet to see it.

I HAVE seen haddonis with white tips, however. I have seen purple haddonis with white tips, green haddonis with white tips, and brown haddonis with white tips. I have never seen a 100% white haddoni. If I had to guess, the haddoni in the photo is a brown haddoni with white tips that is bleached - but who knows? One thing that I wonder about is how washed out the photo is - there are no blues or greens in the photos ANYWHERE which for a shallow reef photo means that they are using color filters on their cameras, or doing post production color correction. After all, any photo at depth should (naturally) be bluish tint. The sand looks white - the rock looks white - the coral looks white. It is probably why I wonder about the anemone looking white. But that's just me.

Unfortunately, just like in our quest for a red or pink gigantea, no one can come up with definitive proof - like an anemone in captivity with numerous photos - or an anemone in the wild with a color chart or other color reference next to it. Instead we see a single photo of an anemone taken in situ with a color filter or color correction, and are left to wonder what the anemone would look like if the photo were taken at the surface with no processing.

I find it a little suspect that out of the thousands of anemones imported, whose photos show up here regularly, the mysterious "white anemone" (of any species) has not surfaced.

[phender]

I have definitely seen a gigantea with white tipped tentacles instead of the normal green, blue, etc. The tentacles were a healthy tan but the tips were a bright opaque white. I guess I am one of the lucky ones to have seen both red and white giganteas. As to why you don't see them in the hobby, I don't know. Maybe they are limited to a certain locality that is no longer collected. And no, I have never seen Bigfoot or the Loch Ness Monster. :)

As far as the first carpet goes, in the video it certainly did not hold itself like a mertens nor do I remember seeing definite spots underneath. In addition it was IDed by the photographer (who is pretty good at IDs) as a haddoni.

[kduen]

Not doubting the I'd it definitely looks like a Haddoni. In the picture it looks like pink verrucae right near the edge of the fold towards the front of the nem. Just thought it was wierd for a Haddoni to have what appear to be visible verrucae.

[elegance coral]

This really shouldn't be as complicated, and confusing as it seems to be. There are no solid white anemones that host zooxanthellae, unless they are bleached. It doesn't matter what species it is. Condylactis, crucifer, tapetum, aiptasia, or any of the ten host species. If they are solid white, they are bleached. There are no exceptions. Zooxanthellae are said to be "golden brown". Their color can vary quite a bit, but they are all a brownish color. If one of these anemones is not bleached, these brownish zooxanthellae will be visible within its tissues, so the anemone will not be solid white. Quite a few of these species have individuals that possess white markings, but the brown of their zooxanthellae should still be visible. If you can't see brownish zooxanthellae, the anemone is bleached. It's that simple.