ID this Scorp

[AlexS95]

Just got him today, and wanted to know what he was. About 6 to 7" long and 3 1/2" wide from fin-to-fin.
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01670.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01681.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01671.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01672.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01676.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01680.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01677.jpg

And, a video (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f2Zv85S-DO0). He was collected in the Caribbean.

[NH reefer kid]

Haha idk but the third pic down is awesome

[rayn]

Possibly a scorpaenopsis barbara or bearded scorpionfish, guessing by the hassles under the jaw.

[AlexS95]

He was sold as a Scorpaenodes caribbaeus, but after seeing Greg and Renee's pictures (http://www.lionfishlair.com/quickstats/caribbaeus.shtml), I was almost positive it wasn't one of those.

[rayn]

Those are supposedly max 5 inches, so if you are accurate with your 6-7 then no not caribaeus.

[silentcivilian]

Looks like a Flasher Scorp to me, and ive seen them in the market more and more too. Just a inch too big and wrong ocean to be a flasher. Ill be interested to see what Namxas says it is, cause I have a feeling he will know.

[AlexS95]

Those are supposedly max 5 inches, so if you are accurate with your 6-7 then no not caribaeus.

I took a tape measure to him while he was floating, so I'm fairly confident in it.

So he is pretty much just laying on the sand, he hasn't perched on the rocks or anything yet.

[silentcivilian]

I found this photo online, found in the carrib, and they call it a spotted scorp.

http://reefguide.org/pix/scorpion1.jpg




Spotted Scorpionfish

Scorpaena plumieri

Size: 7 to 15 in. (18 to 38 cm) Depth: 5-50 ft. (2-15 m)



Distribution: Caribbean, Bahamas, Florida, Bermuda, Gulf of Mexico

[AlexS95]

Alright, good find! Definitely possible. He even ate off of the stick on day one. :dance:

[Bruno21447]

wow he is way cool

[DoubleM 10]

Looks like a devils scorp to me. Very nice find. Wish they had stuff like that by me

[AlexS95]

Well, the guy I got him from still has 3 left, two this size and one smaller (http://divertom.com/In_Stock_List.php), but he about to go on vacation in a week so he's selling all his stock for low prices right now. He get's like a 50% FedEx discount so 2 day to me was less than $17. Check him out if you want, he usually has way more stock but with the sales everyone's buying it quick... :eek2: Just thought I'd throw that out there in case anybody wants one.

[namxas]

Definitely not a caribbaeus, which are actually fairly easily ID'd. As mentioned, if nothing else, the size says "no" to the reef scorp.

This fish looks to be Scorpaenopsis barbata (the bearded scorp), based on the interorbital ridge arrangement, the dark marking at the posterior of the eyes which extends rearward, and kind of spreads downward around the eye , and a few other morphological traits of the head (opercular spines, other ridges, etc), as well as the eye size, which are much larger than S. diabolus.

At any rate, based on the photos and vid we have to go by at this time, that would be my best ID. The only problem with my ID is that according to fish base, the bearded scorp isn't found in the Caribbean. Are you pretty sure it came from there?

If you can get a ray count on the fins, it might help nail it down.

Perhaps Frank can weigh in as well.

[AlexS95]

Yes, I got it from a diver down there who collects his own fish, so I'm 100% it's from there.

[silentcivilian]

Thats why I was going with Scorpaena plumieri, its not common in our hobby, but common in that area... umm common markings..

The white spots on the topside of the pectoral fins of spotted scorpionfish, Scorpaena plumieri, are visible when the animal is disturbed.

They have fleshy plumes (cirri) over the eyes, which combined with the characteristic skin flaps around the head and their mottled wide-range of brown coloring makes them blend into the reef or rocky bottoms so that they become virtually invisible. This species also has brilliant white spots on black on the insides of the pectoral fins (hence their name) which are only displayed when threatened or swimming. Another distinctive feature includes three dark bars on their tail.

Dorsalspines (total): 12; Dorsalsoft rays (total): 10; Analspines: 3; Analsoft rays: 5. Occipital pit present; three to four spines on part of preorbital overlapping maxillary; large white spots on dark background on inner basal part of pectoral fin


Wild life span is approx 14 years or greater.

[namxas]

Odd that a fish they hung "pacific spotted scorpionfish" on is found in the Atlantic and NOT the pacific...go figure. I guess the Gulf is close enuff?

The fish in question's eyes seem a tad large, but the key here will be to look for the white spots on the inner base of the pectorals, as I do see three dark bars on its tail.

The photos are a tad "close" which is good in one way for seeing minute head detail, but sometimes make seeing "the fish" harder.

[silentcivilian]

Haha, yes, I also thought that was odd, thats why the first time I saw the name, I passed by it.. it wasnt till another page of various carrib fish, that I saw it again.. I was like hmm.. odd, that isnt the pacific.

But.. Did you take a video of it by chance when you were transporting it via bag, so you can go check out the color markings?

If not, when you feed, ive done this to do a full body check of my stone time to time, if feed a couple smaller fish by lance, then I use the claw to feed the next one, and I dont release the food, he/she will bite down and then attack it to kill it, by that time you can have lifted, twirled and checked the whole body within a second or two to ensure that the fish is ok and check the coloring.. and keeps their primal side in check, dont want them to become too accustomed to tank life do we ;) Also lets you look at growth, not the length kind, but the chub in the middle, lets you know if you are over or under feeding.. if he is very chub chub.. cut back a bit.

[silentcivilian]

Call me crazy, but he does look a little like the little man I got that I am having a tank built for.. what you think Alex?? Little the same?

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pP2m-ObVL-q1y2xSO3NgJyrongKtsCNLNnHYeg52g_SucgsORa3-MJj6GFyjCDzmiMe5zBwqCxdY/DSC_1072.jpg?psid=1

[AlexS95]

Yeah, he looks pretty similar. Do you have a picture without actinics? Is it the same brown and white coloring? I'm working on getting more pictures, anything I should try to get in particular?

[silentcivilian]

Nah, he been hiding too well to get any good pictures beyond that. But same patterns, just mines more purple then browny red. Though I would try to get a underside shot if you can.. for identifying. Thats been the mystery, my guy has some black spots scattered around the underside with some bright yellows and reds with a orange chest.

[AlexS95]

My guy has an orange-ish stomach.

[silentcivilian]

Yup, exactly. I need to count tail stripes too. But my guy is tiny compared to yours. He is only 2-3" tops. He eats live right now, working on the frozen. Keep me up to date. Would be neat to have the same fish.

[AlexS95]

Mines eating krill and whatever live gets away from the Leaf/Angler. I want to get him something bigger than krill, but smaller than silversides because those seem a little big for the guy, he downed like 5 krill tonight and could have kept going. As far as 'weaning', he didn't even notice the stick at first, but I just started rubbing him in the face with it until he got mad enough to bite it and he now realizes it's food. :dance:

<iframe width="420" height="345" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/3Y4dsBm1Js4" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Video from tonight (http://youtu.be/3Y4dsBm1Js4).

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01712.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01713.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01716.jpg

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01720.jpg

And here is one of his side:
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01717.jpg

I know these aren't extremely different from the first set, but he didn't feel like turning . He just stares at me while I'm on my computer like "How could you put me in this box. I hate you" :fun5:

[MrTuskfish]

Looks like a devils scorp to me. Very nice find. Wish they had stuff like that by me

Sort of off the thread content; but I know what you mean. Many hobbyists, with special interests, find fish through divers and some LFS with good wholesale contacts for the unusual. There are lots of fish that you'll never find at a LFS or listed online. You never know though, sometimes a LFS will have a real "find". Although I haven't been in one in years.

[namxas]

Alex,

Does the fish have the white spots on the inner side of its pectorals? They should be right at the base.

[AlexS95]

It's hard to get a good angle to see them, but I'm pretty sure yes he does.

[silentcivilian]

This may be Namxas solving the ID problem. haha..

Here are 2 shots of my guy this evening.. no blues on, all LED flash light and camera phone.

https://blu1.storage.live.com/items/11B9343BC6E7817!1531:Scaled1024/DSC_1092.jpg?psid=1&ck=0&ex=720
https://blu1.storage.live.com/items/11B9343BC6E7817!1530:Scaled1024/DSC_1090.jpg?psid=1&ck=0&ex=720

You still think they are the same? My lfs swears its a scorpionfish... I was like really? I thought so too, what part of the world is he from, ohh.. im not sure, but ill give you good deal!

[jarrod13]

Those are definitely not the same species

Alex yours is tough to ID from those photos, I know it's difficult but it would be super helpful to get a glimpse of the inner pectorals

Silent, yours is one of three IMO, S. Diabolus, S. Macrochir, or S. Neglecta. Once again, the easiest way to be 100% positive is to check the inner pectorals. Is this the fish you had a thread about recently that was at your lfs?

I am certain these are not the same species.

[silentcivilian]

Inner pecs are redish and yellow in color with black spots, and a orange belly/chest.


By looking closer at both our fishes, I see some subtle differences.. like eyes are set differently, his fishes pec fins seem to ride higher up the body. Still, without some of the fish out there that are clearly different like the ghouls and goblins, scorps must be some of the trickiest to identify.

But with Alexs im still going with the pacific spotted scorp..

[jarrod13]

It's not necessary the colors but the actual pattern that identifies them. Most are red, yellow, orange, white, so that doesn't really tell much. Identifying scorps really isn't that hard, it's just almost necessary to see the inner pecs to be certain. This is even true with the inimicus (goblins) species, there are three that are ALMOST identical, with the biggest determining factor being the pectorals, much like your fish, the three I listed are very hard to tell apart especially when younger except for those pretty patterns they have.

Here's a pic I found on the Internet a while ago that helps me identify with these three species
http://i1191.photobucket.com/albums/z466/grodm13/ed567fbe.jpg

As far as alex's, I know diver Tom and he only dives in the keys so unless this fish made a heck of a journey, it's not a pacific species. Or the extremely unlikely scenario that someone purchased it and released it over here, but I highly doubt it ;-)

[silentcivilian]

Thats the funny thing about the spotted..

The spotted scorpionfish is one of the largest and most common scorpionfishes in the Atlantic and Caribbean.
They can grow up to about 8 inches in length, and usually weigh about five pounds when adult, with the females being slightly larger than the males.

They are found in nearly all bodies of water, and can range from Bermuda to Massachusetts, and the northern Gulf of Mexico to southern Brazil.

[namxas]

There actually IS a "spotted/speckled scorp" (IIRC, that would be Sebastapistes coniorta) from the Pacific which is a native to the waters off HI, but it's a small fish FWIW. Common names just don't work very well when it comes to scorps.

[silentcivilian]

Ahh, right, I had to go back and check on the scientific name I found, but I think its a Scorpaena plumieri

[AlexS95]

I'll try to get the pictures of the pectoral tonight, but he doesn't always like to follow directions.

[silentcivilian]

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pCGriZwpKkh5bQsFRIVTvJTggzlCwjxzH0DDcIutWu9-xEEuWPKYS-BIzZ0dGq9f7wV-yWX0Dzy8/DSC07163.JPG?psid=1

I got mine tagged.. I still dont know what it means though...

[namxas]

SC,

Your newby doesn't seem like S. diabolus to me, as one key morphological trait seems to be missing, which is the pit at the front lower corner of the eye (at least I can't see it in your pix). Can you get a nice side view of the fish's head?

[AlexS95]

I got this:

http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01743.jpg

I had to get him while he was perching, and he doesn't do that a lot.

[namxas]

I'm not thinking plumieri...take a look at the fins in this pic from fishbase:

S. plumieri (http://www.fishbase.org/images/species/Scplu_u6.jpg)

[namxas]

I'm not sure your fish is a plumieri...take a look at the fins in this pic from fishbase:

S. plumieri (http://www.fishbase.org/images/species/Scplu_u6.jpg)

I'm not seeing the white spots on a black/dark area in your pic. However, your pic is a bit TOO close, so it's tuff to really see much but spots. However, your fish does have the 3 black tailbars and the occipital pit near the corner of its eye...

[AlexS95]

The 'red-black' in that one is a little off, mine is more of a lighter shade, but it could just be the lighting in my tank vs on the ocean floor?
And is Frank ever going to post here? :hmm2:

[namxas]

Of course, color can vary a bit, but they're generally pretty close.

Send Frank a PM and ask him to take a peek.

[AlexS95]

Possible money shot? lol
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01748.jpg

With flash:
http://i640.photobucket.com/albums/uu122/iTeeeeeeeeeeeeen/DSC01749.jpg

[silentcivilian]

Thats pretty close id say.. you have the lighter outside, to the yellow, to the black and spots and then the other fins match up pretty good color wise too... From my semi-limited know-how and what not that looks pretty close..

https://blufiles.storage.live.com/y1pFc5ezA-8P8ijxVGzUWYQ4HU6s4wsTjB5cUBLZWqvkKx2Xx47Fy69DJli0htQffEsRC0s7OboGpA/DSC07123.JPG?psid=1

What do you think here Greg. Thats the best I can get at this time, he is currently hiding out pretty well, and as he is pretty new, I dont need to stess him by chasing him with a stick. But that gives us a few pics between page 1 and 2..

I like how this turned into a multiple ID thread somehow.. sorry to steal your limelight Alex.

[silentcivilian]

Also, this sometimes works when you know where you get the fish from.. but here is a listing for Northwestern Atlantic USA area..

http://www.fishbase.org/identification/SpeciesList.php?famcode=264&genus=&areacode=21&c_code=840&spines=&fins=&sortby=species - the only real one from that area is the Spotted or Plumieri

Mine had 57 listings for Indonesia, which I had to call and bug LFS for, he looked it up and found where it came from. 4 of which looked close at first glance, which are the Neglecta, Macrochir, Gibbosa, Diabolus.

I want to say Neglecta due to some similarities in the photos I saw, which are the different textured skin right behind the head that looks more like skin than scale, the 2 black bars on the tail, and the stuff around the face (circi or somthing) which I dont see on the Diablous..

[AlexS95]

I like how this turned into a multiple ID thread somehow.. sorry to steal your limelight Alex.

I don't mind, more attention to the thread. :thumbsup:

[silentcivilian]

I think we are settled there.

You have a Plumieri.
I have a Neglecta.
We both have cool scorps.

[AlexS95]

Well when you put it like that... :lol: