Help with light and growth issues?

[DopeCantWin]

My current lights are 1 50/50 Reef Brite, 1 Actinic Reef Brite and 2 x 250 MH fixture. The growth and colors on my frag rack which is almost entirely under just under the LEDs are better than under the MHs. The bulbs are 3 month old 20k XMs. I have a crappy 2x54 watt T5 fixture and some 10k bulbs. I also have some actinics for it, but I doubt they're necessary with the Reef Brites. The tank is 90 gallons. Is it worth it to give a shot switching out the MHs for the all daylight T5 fixture? Would I be hurting anything to give it a shot?

[chrishayes]

Your wallet! That and causing further stress to the corals plus you really havent figured out what is causing the issue. Have you tried mounting the corals in question lower or higher in the MH area? Have you tried taking the frags that look good and moving them through the MH area to find where they are happy? I feel you need to do more exploration for a cause before further adding to the problem plus making one more thing a possibility...

[DopeCantWin]

Your wallet! That and causing further stress to the corals plus you really havent figured out what is causing the issue. Have you tried mounting the corals in question lower or higher in the MH area? Have you tried taking the frags that look good and moving them through the MH area to find where they are happy? I feel you need to do more exploration for a cause before further adding to the problem plus making one more thing a possibility...

I have a Milli in 2 spots. It has browned out and unhappy coralites in the middle of the tank. And somewhat healthier, but still browned out polyps on the sandbed. My live rock only goes halfway up the tank. I'd say yes to moving stuff around, if it wasn't a common problem with so many corals.

[lolgranny]

Whats "better" about the colors of the ones on your frag rack compared to the ones on the rock?

[DopeCantWin]

A coral that was basically at the same level on the rock under the Metal Halides turned from brown to light green. I'm thinking if I was to use the T5, it would turn to the Red it's supposed to be.

[allsps40]

You need to look at other things than your lighting. 2 250w MH will grow colorful sps. What your water quality like. How long are you running the MH for?

[lolgranny]

A coral that was basically at the same level on the rock under the Metal Halides turned from brown to light green. I'm thinking if I was to use the T5, it would turn to the Red it's supposed to be.

If it turned from brown to green its on its way to getting its color back. Typically all corals when they have lost their colors or after being browned out will turn green before it comes back to its normal coloration. Give it some time, changing things around will only stress it more.

Whats your water perimeters at?

[DopeCantWin]

Water parameters aren't too bad. Nitrates were at 2.5, I'm testing again today, hoping they go down to .5 or so again. Phosphates are around 0. Alkalinity was a little on the low side at 7, but I'm slowly bringing it back up. Calcium was at 430 last week, testing again today. The MHs are on for 8 hours, the Reef Brites are at 10.

[lolgranny]

Water parameters aren't too bad. Nitrates were at 2.5, I'm testing again today, hoping they go down to .5 or so again. Phosphates are around 0. Alkalinity was a little on the low side at 7, but I'm slowly bringing it back up. Calcium was at 430 last week, testing again today. The MHs are on for 8 hours, the Reef Brites are at 10.

Sounds like you have a grip on things. I dont see changing the lights as doing anything for you. As long as you keep your N03 / P04 down and get your alk up a bit i see good things happening for you!

[DopeCantWin]

Sounds like you have a grip on things. I dont see changing the lights as doing anything for you. As long as you keep your N03 / P04 down and get your alk up a bit i see good things happening for you!

I'm hoping so too. My Nitrates turned up a notch to 5. I'm on week 4-5 of Biopellets, so hoping that kicks in soon. Calcium tested at 425. Alkalinity was right at 7. I've turned up the Kalkwasser dosing just a tad. To give you an idea of how a lot of my corals look, check out this picture (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_uPWhhZolhSI/TW1WQvZxvZI/AAAAAAAAAiY/_GHHyxW9aTM/s800/_MG_7939.jpg). That's the way it's been for roughly 3 months, slowly growing white sprouts, but brown polyps. I'm planning to move away from MHs in general. Going to either T5s and eventually LEDs.

[lolgranny]

I'm hoping so too. My Nitrates turned up a notch to 5. I'm on week 4-5 of Biopellets, so hoping that kicks in soon. Calcium tested at 425. Alkalinity was right at 7. I've turned up the Kalkwasser dosing just a tad. To give you an idea of how a lot of my corals look, check out this picture (https://lh5.googleusercontent.com/_uPWhhZolhSI/TW1WQvZxvZI/AAAAAAAAAiY/_GHHyxW9aTM/s800/_MG_7939.jpg). That's the way it's been for roughly 3 months, slowly growing white sprouts, but brown polyps. I'm planning to move away from MHs in general. Going to either T5s and eventually LEDs.

How often are you doing water changed and are you using RO / DI water with 0TDS?? This might be part of your Nitrate problem. Otherwise how often are you feeding / what are you feeding?

The coral in the pic doesnt look bad to me! It has good polyp extension from what i see. If its growing slowly it might just be one of those guys who doesnt move quickly in your tank. Even so it looks like its encrusting and has a bunch of heads peaking out.

Why do you want to move away from MH if i might ask?

[DopeCantWin]

I was using RO/DI, but once I get the water parameters around where I like them, I stop doing water changes. I haven't done one in probably a month. My feeding schedule is Flakes in the morning. Different type of Algae at noon. Meaty frozen food at the end of the day. The pic I stole from the Brown Planet thread, it just looks like what I'm looking at. I'd like to move away from Metal Halides for a couple of reasons. I'm not too obsessed about the colors, even with 20K. The fixture I have doesn't have great reflectors, so there are a lot of places with only Actinics hitting them. I'm using a net over the tank, which is blocking out some of the light. If I were to move to a canopy, I could get rid of it. Noise from the ballasts and the fixture.

[lolgranny]

I was using RO/DI, but once I get the water parameters around where I like them, I stop doing water changes. I haven't done one in probably a month. My feeding schedule is Flakes in the morning. Different type of Algae at noon. Meaty frozen food at the end of the day. The pic I stole from the Brown Planet thread, it just looks like what I'm looking at. I'd like to move away from Metal Halides for a couple of reasons. I'm not too obsessed about the colors, even with 20K. The fixture I have doesn't have great reflectors, so there are a lot of places with only Actinics hitting them. I'm using a net over the tank, which is blocking out some of the light. If I were to move to a canopy, I could get rid of it. Noise from the ballasts and the fixture.

Why did you stop doing water changed? Personally i do them once a week (if i can get around to it) and i always do them 2x's a month.... NO this is not needed, but doing one might help ya out with your nitrates climbing. I would suggest doing a 20% change and see if that helps. Ive been in the hobby for 12years now and i have never gone a month w/o doing one. Just my 2c

As for halides, understandable. I have a 20k ushio that im currently running, i prefer the 14k phoenix. Once i upgrade reflectors im getting myself a 20k radium. I have a crappy coralife fixture with 2-65w PC + a 250w halide and talk about low light in the corners.

[DopeCantWin]

Why did you stop doing water changed? Personally i do them once a week (if i can get around to it) and i always do them 2x's a month.... NO this is not needed, but doing one might help ya out with your nitrates climbing. I would suggest doing a 20% change and see if that helps. Ive been in the hobby for 12years now and i have never gone a month w/o doing one. Just my 2c

As for halides, understandable. I have a 20k ushio that im currently running, i prefer the 14k phoenix. Once i upgrade reflectors im getting myself a 20k radium. I have a crappy coralife fixture with 2-65w PC + a 250w halide and talk about low light in the corners.

I'll try go do one. I generally do only 5% at a time. I'm looking into some of the LED group buys too. For now was thinking I'd give this a shot.

[phishsauce]

MH's are actually great for SPS's, LED's are great too, yet the cost behind it is a substantial amount.

I have a hunch it's your lighting because you did mention it's something crappy.
The par rating maybe isn't as great as it should, so switching the lighting out to something else would probably be the best idea, otherwise, you're just throwing money away on those "crappy" lights.

[DopeCantWin]

MH's are actually great for SPS's, LED's are great too, yet the cost behind it is a substantial amount.

I have a hunch it's your lighting because you did mention it's something crappy.
The par rating maybe isn't as great as it should, so switching the lighting out to something else would probably be the best idea, otherwise, you're just throwing money away on those "crappy" lights.

I agree. I'm getting a PAR meter very soon, so I'll hopefully have a clearer idea of whats going on. I've tried putting on the T5 fixture, and it looked awful. I even tried switching out one of the bulbs for an Actinic, and still no success. If the PAR is low on the Metal Halides, I'll either go with a 4xT5 Retrofit or some LEDs I have my eye on.

[chrishayes]

Good luck, but I still have no faith in it being lighting. Two frags from the same colony can turn out TOTALLY different from one another in the SAME tank. Difference in flow, lighting, food capture, peak lighting spikes from "glitter" lines just to name a few of the things that can change a corals appearance. Also, the way a light "looks" has nothing to do with how the coral responds to it. Locally we have a coral farm that is in a greenhouse. During the day, the corals look terrible to the eye due to the color temp of the sun on shallow pools of water but when a 20k light is applied to them they absolutely GLOW. So in short, light spectrum is only important to OUR view of the coral color in most cases although there are some corals that do exibit more actual color under more blue spectrum...I hope you find your solution.

[allsps40]

IMO as long as NO3 is below 10pmm sps will color up nicely, Some NO3 helps to color them up as sps use it as a food source. I have found that 0 no3 can pale sps.

[DopeCantWin]

IMO as long as NO3 is below 10pmm sps will color up nicely, Some NO3 helps to color them up as sps use it as a food source. I have found that 0 no3 can pale sps.

Right, which points me to the lights being the issue. Flow should be fine, it's provided mostly by an MP60.