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puck3
09/13/2011, 09:16 AM
I know technically your not supposed
To keep more thanone tang in a small tank. However I have had success in the past with 2 tangs of different shapes/ color when added at the same time. My question now is, I have a
65 gallon reef. Think it's a bad idea to add 2-3 yellow tangs and possibly a hippo tang all at the same time in that size tank? Will be
Using small sizes fish but obviously they're going to grow.

Allmost
09/13/2011, 09:22 AM
unfortunately, a 65 G is not big enough for 1, let alone multiple !


forget about the blue tang altogether. use the search here to find out why :) as it has been covered many times.

yellow tang is still way to big for that tank .... but you may be able to get away with it for a bit ... look for some smaller tangs ...

have you checked the recommended tank size for the fish you like to keep ? noone will answer you other wise here ! nor should they.

ludiNano
09/13/2011, 09:24 AM
I know technically your not supposed
To.

Here's your sign.

Maybe 1 yellow thats it. IMO

ezerasurfr
09/13/2011, 10:36 AM
Its all a matter of opinion and a matter of fish. Some tangs will do fine, while others will stress completely. If you're going to do it, don't get more than one of the same genus - as eventually it will lead to at least 1 stressed out fish (ie: dont get more than 1 zebrasoma family fish). And also make sure you get them as juveniles as this has a chance to stunt their growth making life in the tank easier for them. And last but not least, be ready to get flamed and yelled by most people on most boards. Most people think they know it all because they read a book or forum post and think they have a right to tell you how to keep your tank, but ultimately its your tank and your money and reefing has always been about the risk you're willing to take. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Allmost
09/13/2011, 10:49 AM
And also make sure you get them as juveniles as this has a chance to stunt their growth making life in the tank easier for them.

WOW ! I dont even know what to say to that ! stunt their growth ? and making their life easier ? just wow !


Most people think they know it all because they read a book or forum post and think they have a right to tell you how to keep your tank, but ultimately its your tank and your money and reefing has always been about the risk you're willing to take. Good luck with whatever you decide.


this is ridiculous. maybe you are just re-typing what you have read on forums, but many other more experienced reefers speak from Experience ! something I am sure you lack.

Live aquaria didnt sit down and think "how do we **** of ppl with 65G tanks ? lets put minimum tank size for tangs at 180 Gallons "

these are findings from Reefers with way more experienced than you ! based on the fishes needs ! its need to swim, its need to hide, eat and more.

PS. Reefing is about taking educated risks, while using your brain ! not just taking risks ! would you put a black tip shark in a betta bowl and call it a risk ? NO ! that's called stupidity in my book !

with all that said .... if one comes on here, asks a question, we have to assume he/she is interested in learning, so reply with our experience. posters are not obligated to follow it. forums like this educate poster about the risk he/she is about to take !
after knowing the facts, if he decides to risk life of a fish ... that's their problem.

Tin_Whistler
09/13/2011, 10:52 AM
Its all a matter of opinion and a matter of fish. Some tangs will do fine, while others will stress completely. If you're going to do it, don't get more than one of the same genus - as eventually it will lead to at least 1 stressed out fish (ie: dont get more than 1 zebrasoma family fish).I wouldn't recommend any full size tang in a 65, and the only one I'd put in there as a juvenile is a Kole tang. Everything else is going to need more room to swim. Regardless of tank size (unless you've got something massive) two tangs of the same shape is almost always a bad idea.

And also make sure you get them as juveniles as this has a chance to stunt their growth making life in the tank easier for them. And last but not least, be ready to get flamed and yelled by most people on most boards. Most people think they know it all because they read a book or forum post and think they have a right to tell you how to keep your tank, but ultimately its your tank and your money and reefing has always been about the risk you're willing to take. Good luck with whatever you decide.I certainly don't know it all, and while it is his tank and money, if people feel like you're treating an animal inhumanely they not only can speak up*, but they should*. And I can't say I find the idea of stunting an animals growth remotely humane.

Tangs need room to swim back and forth, that what they do, and what they need to do. a 65 gallon tank doesn't give them the space the need to live properly.

*Keeping in mind RC's rules and regulations of course

Toddrtrex
09/13/2011, 10:58 AM
Its all a matter of opinion and a matter of fish. Some tangs will do fine, while others will stress completely. If you're going to do it, don't get more than one of the same genus - as eventually it will lead to at least 1 stressed out fish (ie: dont get more than 1 zebrasoma family fish). And also make sure you get them as juveniles as this has a chance to stunt their growth making life in the tank easier for them. And last but not least, be ready to get flamed and yelled by most people on most boards. Most people think they know it all because they read a book or forum post and think they have a right to tell you how to keep your tank, but ultimately its your tank and your money and reefing has always been about the risk you're willing to take. Good luck with whatever you decide.

WOW.

So many things that I want to say, but won't. I suggest that anyone else in this thread just ignore this post.

ezerasurfr
09/13/2011, 11:02 AM
WOW ! I dont even know what to say to that ! stunt their growth ? and making their life easier ? just wow !





this is ridiculous. maybe you are just re-typing what you have read on forums, but many other more experienced reefers speak from Experience ! something I am sure you lack.

Live aquaria didnt sit down and think "how do we **** of ppl with 65G tanks ? lets put minimum tank size for tangs at 180 Gallons "

these are findings from Reefers with way more experienced than you ! based on the fishes needs ! its need to swim, its need to hide, eat and more.

PS. Reefing is about taking educated risks, while using your brain ! not just taking risks ! would you put a black tip shark in a betta bowl and call it a risk ? NO ! that's called stupidity in my book !

with all that said .... if one comes on here, asks a question, we have to assume he/she is interested in learning, so reply with our experience. posters are not obligated to follow it. forums like this educate poster about the risk he/she is about to take !
after knowing the facts, if he decides to risk life of a fish ... that's their problem.



You proved my point completely.

And yes, stunting growth is a more humane method to keeping a tang (or any fish that needs swimming room) than over feeding a larger one in a tank that is too small for it. And to show you what kind of experience I have, we all stunt the growth of our fish simply be keeping them in captivity.

Recommendations are recommendations for a reason - I never went against that, but people are going to do whatever they please and some will even have success in it. These forums are about helping people keep the livestock they decide to put in their tanks - is it so aweful I give my opinions as to how to do the "forbidden" whereby he may have a little more success?


/facepalm

Toddrtrex
09/13/2011, 11:05 AM
You proved my point completely.

And yes, stunting growth is a more humane method to keeping a tang (or any fish that needs swimming room) than over feeding a larger one in a tank that is too small for it. And to show you what kind of experience I have, we all stunt the growth of our fish simply be keeping them in captivity.

Recommendations are recommendations for a reason - I never went against that, but people are going to do whatever they please and some will even have success in it. These forums are about helping people keep the livestock they decide to put in their tanks - is it so aweful I give my opinions as to how to do the "forbidden" whereby he may have a little more success?


/facepalm

No, it isn't more humane. And no, we do not stunt the growth of our fish just be simply keeping them in captivity. Those 2 statement shows me a lot about the kind of experience that you have in this hobby.

Allmost
09/13/2011, 11:06 AM
Todd is right ....


you would be in jail if you tried to put a pit bull puppy in a shoe box to stunt its growth so it wouldn't eat as much ...

ezerasurfr
09/13/2011, 11:14 AM
Todd, have you seen fish in the wild? Lets even keep on the topic of tangs in the wild. Not only do they live longer, they also grow larger. Captivity stunts the growth of fish - period.

Toddrtrex
09/13/2011, 11:15 AM
Todd, have you seen fish in the wild? Lets even keep on the topic of tangs in the wild. Not only do they live longer, they also grow larger. Captivity stunts the growth of fish - period.

Yes I have.

Do you have any proof of those 2 statements? Or are you just guessing and pretending that they are facts?

ezerasurfr
09/13/2011, 11:18 AM
Yes I have.

Do you have any proof of those 2 statements? Or are you just guessing and pretending that they are facts?

18 years of diving experience. But I guess you can do a google search.

Toddrtrex
09/13/2011, 11:20 AM
18 years of diving experience. But I guess you can do a google search.

Oh, so that makes your sweeping comments about size and life span facts?

And I don't need to do a google search. You made the claims and the onus is on you, not me, to back up those claims with facts.

ezerasurfr
09/13/2011, 11:26 AM
18 years of experience seeing the difference in sizes imo is suitable enough for me. My burden of proof - no matter what i post is not going to change your opinion either way, so there really is no onus on me.

How many tangs have you kept in a small tank?

puck3
09/13/2011, 07:28 PM
Its all a matter of opinion and a matter of fish. Some tangs will do fine, while others will stress completely. If you're going to do it, don't get more than one of the same genus - as eventually it will lead to at least 1 stressed out fish (ie: dont get more than 1 zebrasoma family fish). And also make sure you get them as juveniles as this has a chance to stunt their growth making life in the tank easier for them. And last but not least, be ready to get flamed and yelled by most people on most boards. Most people think they know it all because they read a book or forum post and think they have a right to tell you how to keep your tank, but ultimately its your tank and your money and reefing has always been about the risk you're willing to take. Good luck with whatever you decide.

Thank you I appreciate the support, atleast getting a courtious answer lol.

puck3
09/13/2011, 07:33 PM
I appreciate both sides. Just looking for a little info.Thanks

dzfish17
09/13/2011, 10:28 PM
It doesnt make it right just because some ignorant aquarist keeps multiple tangs in his 55g tank. Trying to justify what you are doing by telling someone else to do the same thing is wrong. The responsible folks who run this forum have put the guideline in place to help people from following bad advice. http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1946007

Reefing Newbie
09/13/2011, 10:28 PM
I have not gone diving and am just getting into the hobby. I have made a thread getting clarification on the tank sizes for fangs to understand why they need the size of tank they do. I am going to agree that we do indeed stunt the growth of certain fish in captivity. One example would be the PBT's. In the wild they do get up to 21", and getting responses from Sk8r and Steve they said PBT's in people's aquariums may avg 9" or so. I am not saying all tangs are stunted, but there are going to be a few of the larger fish that will unless you provide extremely large tanks for them. It is by no means humane or fair to the fish. Some rants will show their frustration by taking coral drags and dropping them in the rock work, killing the corals. If I was OP, I would wait until you upgrade if you do to get any tangs. It just is not fair to the fish, no more than a family of 10 should live in a 1 bedroom apartment. Just my 2 cents.

mcrist
09/14/2011, 07:53 AM
IMO you do not stunt the growth of the fish but rather you shorten their life span so they never have the chance to make it to their true adult size.

Reefing Newbie
09/14/2011, 03:02 PM
What is it that shortens the lifespan of the fish in captivity? There shouldn't be any predation of the fish(unless you rely screwed up stocking!). They should also be getting larger and more frequent amounts of food in captivity. I am just trying to understand. Don't include the diseases, basing this off of a healthy tank.

mcrist
09/14/2011, 05:22 PM
What is it that shortens the lifespan of the fish in captivity? There shouldn't be any predation of the fish(unless you rely screwed up stocking!). They should also be getting larger and more frequent amounts of food in captivity. I am just trying to understand. Don't include the diseases, basing this off of a healthy tank.
That is difficult question to answer unless everybody starts doing autopsies when their fish die. I would think the majority of most fish die due to mistakes that the aquarist makes. But besides that it could be as simple as the fish not having enough physical activity for it to live a long life. I could also be from being overfeed and having the wrong diet. Maybe fish die in captivity just like a lot of humans do, fat, lazy and out of shape.

snorvich
09/14/2011, 05:54 PM
Todd, have you seen fish in the wild? Lets even keep on the topic of tangs in the wild. Not only do they live longer, they also grow larger. Captivity stunts the growth of fish - period.

Well, having spent a little over 3000 hours with fish in the wild, and having more than 25 years of marine fish experience, I can say you have no idea what you are talking about.

RealReef7
09/14/2011, 06:13 PM
lunatics i tell ya!

DgenR8
09/14/2011, 06:51 PM
Keep fighting the good fight Todd and Steve. Somewhere out there someone is benefiting from the good advice you give, even if there are a few right here that you have to write off.

Reefing Newbie
09/14/2011, 07:26 PM
This thread is very informing. I think that it may be a good idea to make a second tang sticky discussing the tang behavior, general care, how many tangs per size tank(3 for a 240, 2 for a 125, etc.), and sizes(wild vs. captivity). It would kinda be the tang thread to end most of these kinds of threads. I think the members of RC would learn a great deal about why the tang topic is touchy here on this forum. I personally like to hear the reasoning as to why/what the reason is for a rule or guideline. I also think having a sticky that explains the reasoning for the tank size would ease the anger when people hear the size that should be used for the tang. This is just an idea for the people of Team RC and the rest of the higher ups.

Thanks mcrist for pointing out the fact that the fish don't live as long as they do in the wild under our care. I love having the explanation as to why the fish don't get as big. It would be interesting to have dead tangs biopsied to see what ended their life. What I have learned from steve is that the fish you get should be able to live a normal lifespan and reach a good size in the tank you house it in, which I will agree with.