Starting an all Invert tank

[StephLionfish]

Well, I'm thinking about setting up an all invertebrate tank. I'm sick of QT'ing fish for weeks...and honestly, I just find inverts/live rock hitch hikers more fascinating to look at than fish...
So, how does all this sound?

Tech stuff
------------
10g tank
HOB filter
LEDs ( unsure of which ones.... I was looking at either the PAR 38's or I've seen the AI Sol...)
Small heater
2" sand bed (?)

LIVESTOCK
-----------------
Live rock ( duh)
1x Pederson Cleaner shrimp
5x Sexy shrimp
1x Peppermint (?)
A Pair of Harlequin shrimp
2x Porcelain crabs (?)
A couple of Maxi Mini Carpet Anemones
GSP
Kenya trees (?)
Feather dusters (?)
Blue Legged hermits
Cerith snails
Astrea snails


I want there to be some kind of coral in the center of the tank...something that is the main center of focus of the tank, and then have live rock rubble pieces a couple of inches away from the centerpiece in a horse shoe shape...
Have GSP growing in patches over the horse shoe....
I'm just not sure what the centerpiece should be... I like the look of Toadstool leathers, ( I like the "tree" look ), but I don't like things like Frogspawn ( want to keep this tank all softies) and you can't see under Frogs like you can a Toadstool leather...

I want this tank to be ultra simple, but when you look really close, it's really neat.

I do have a couple of questions...

1- What do you think of the LEDs I mentioned? I'm terrible when it comes down to lighting...
2- Would a 2" sand bed be trouble? I generally keep 3" of sand in my tanks, but in a 10g, it'd be a lot of sand...
3- I read that Sexy shrimp like to be in groups? And that they like anemones? ( hence the group and Maxi's )
4- Are Peppermints mean? Or would they be to my other shrimp?
5- Are Porcelain Crabs ever out/ visible?
6- Do feather dusters need any target feeding? I've never been able to keep them alive...
Would these creatures fight in a 10g?

Any suggestions/ comments would be appreciated!

[clowntriggerfis]

I dont know the anwser to your questions but that sounds like a realy cool tank and yes I am pretty sure sexy shrimp like anemones

[StephLionfish]

Thanks :)

[clowntriggerfis]

http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+525+1135&pcatid=1135
this should have some info on sexy shrimp it says they live in anemone tenticles but thought you might want to read it

[StephLionfish]

Thanks for the link. I'm a little iffy on anemones.... I like coral, and anemones sting corals :hmm2:
It does say they like to be in small groups... but I wonder if 5 is considered small? I saw three in a 4g tank and they completely ignored each other...

Sexies are just adorable, and are first on my list.

[clowntriggerfis]

I like them alot to, it said they often perch on coral in aquariums, but dont think mini maxis sting caral if they are not placed right next to each other because they are small. so you could do all coral, possibly you could get one that resembles a aanemone.

[mndfreeze]

Coral stings nems also. Just to be clear.

That seems a little heavy on the stocking for a 10G but I know I've gotten tons of inverts in tanks soooo... :D I love invert tanks!

[mndfreeze]

Oh, also the pederson is an anemone shrimp also if i remember correctly. More so then the sexy's are.

The peppermint WILL bully your other shrimp in a tank that small.

Porcelain crabs are ALSO anemone hosters, depending on which species you get.

[rjmayes34]

i have two sexy shrimp and when i put them in my tank i placed them right on my mini maxi rock (i have 9 on their) and they stayed on it and love the maxis!!! They spend all day and night walking the rock dancing away!! Im def going to be getting more in the future!!
As long as you have a lot of rock work in the tank i think you would be ok.
My tank is def larger (at a 120 long) but i have three pep shrimp, 2 skunk cleaner shrimp, three emerald crabs, a pom pom crab, a staghorn crab, a pistol shrimp(paired with a pink spotted goby), a huge red serpent star( id say 16-18" from tip to tip) and then prolly about 25 blue leg hermits and about 12 red leg hermits. Along with my three conchs, 4 turbos, about 8 mexican turbos, about 13 nassirus snails.
I have a lot of inverts!! I love them as much if not more than my fish also!!!!
I think you should go a little bigger with you tank to be safe. And i have found the more inverts you have the more comfortable they are and then it makes it more likely they are to come out in the open and that in at least pairs they are a little braver and venture around more and you will see them more often.
Good luck!!!!

[StephLionfish]

Well poop. Too small? I'm trying to stay small...
Do you think a 40B would be too big for the sexies? As in, me never seeing them? I really hate the dimensions of the 20H, 20L, and 30g...but I don't like the look of bio cubes...
hm...

mndfreeze,
I did not know that...about the corals stinging nems...

rjmayes34,
Got a video of those silly things on the nems?

[rjmayes34]

have my nem rock in the front right corner of my tank on the sand bed and this is where i put them when i introduced them to my tank and they stayed. If you have something for them to host then yes they should be in the open. I have a 120 long (60"long, 25.5"tall, ans 18" wide) and i can look in their now and see them since they hang on the rock/ maxis that are in the open on their own rock island.
Maybe not too small but its risky that small.
I dont know if it helped me any but ive added them all slowly so when i knew where the pep hang out i out the skunk on the other side and so on with each new addition.When my 2 peps were comfortable i added a 3rd and put him in right next to the other 2 so he would stay around their area and not claim another spot in the tank. I think with careful planning a tank that small would work, but a little bit bigger of a tank and you can add maybe even more :-) The more you have in their the more likely you are to see them!!!

[StephLionfish]

Ha, well, the AI Sol is a big fat NO. I don't have $1,000 for lights over one tank.... I don't care how fancy they are. And that is just the 24"!

[mndfreeze]

I'll be moving my sexies into my kids 40B when I upgrade it. You can get quite the gaggle of them in there. :D

You can look into the Panorama LED modules. In a 40B you also can have a TON more inverts. Generally inverts are a bit less bioload then fish. So a fishless invert only system can house quite a bit of stuff.

[StephLionfish]

Should I look for a drilled 40B? I have yet to understand the Know-Hows of sump-making... I'm still a little scared of sumps... I mean, HOB filters are just so much easier :D but I know a 40B would need a sump...?

So, Sexies are crazy expensive... like, twenty bucks a shrimp 0.o ....I wish there was a site that you could buy a bunch of them for 30 bucks or something...

I will look at those LED's...
Will Pederson cleaner shrimp pair if you put two of them in a tank together? But they are $50 a piece.... Heck, as long as I get me some Sexies dancing around on Maxi's, I'll pull through it :)

Any other neato mosquito inverts out there?

Yikes...those LEDs are still $600+... I think I'm just going to have to stick to plain ole shimmer-less T5's

[mndfreeze]

Why would a 40B need a sump any more then any other tank? If anything, it's the smaller tanks that benefit more from a sump.

Of course, a sump is NICE to have a dedicated fuge area to grow goodies and keep predators out. Grow macros for water quality, and have chambers for a nice skimmer and your heater and such.

Long run, it will be worth it to build your larger tank right the first time. That's what I'm doing hence the expensive customer 40B mentioned in my sig. I've always kept nano's and the 40B will be my biggest tank. Since I love tha 'vert and find fish boring a 40B is a lot of real estate for coral and cool crawlies.

I'm spending the money the first time around to make the 40 my 'dream tank' because I'm tired of piecemealing nano parts trying to save a buck. If you're going to even MAYBE want a sump/fuge later, do it from the start because it isn't easy to get a tank up and running, then decide to take it down to drill it after its been running livestock for a while.

In a 40 you could easily get away with more then one Pederson shrimp. There are other cool cleaner shrimp like the Pederson as well, also nem hosters. Some have been known to host ricordea or maxi's also.

I got a really awesome snail a few weeks ago. Local LFS got it as a hitcher and gave it to me. Its a Scutus Limpet. It's pitch black in color, and hides its itty bitty shell so it looks almost like a slug! He is awesome!

Crinoid squat lobsters are pretty radical also.

Also, with the LED's. the panorama's can also bought as just separate strips. You don't have to buy the full hood with modules in it. That's how I built mine. One module at a time. My 40B will have 4, maybe 5 strips, and will be MORE then capable for SPS.

[mndfreeze]

White Spot Anemone Shrimp (Periclimenes brevicarpalis)

The Anemone Shrimp (Periclimenes longicarpus)

Venus Anemone Shrimp (Periclimenes venustus)

^ all of these ones are awesome. I've seen them all in person and might get some myself if I decide to put a nem in my mantis tank.

[clowntriggerfis]

sexy shrimp are 8$ on liveaquaria and you could do marineland reef capable leds you would need the 36-48 or 48-60 and they cost less I think its 330 for the 36-48 and 420 for the 48-60 but not 100% sure on the price, that is probibly what I will get for my tree coral tank

[rjmayes34]

$8 is a great price for them!!! I payed $17 or $18 for each of mine!!!

[SushiGirl]

I noticed you said Harlequin shrimp. They only eat the tube feet of starfish and nothing else, so you need to take that into consideration.

Sounds like a great tank, though, I love inverts and hitchhikers too.

[StephLionfish]

mndfreeze,
All of my nano (20g and under) tanks have HOB filters.... But anything over 20g's, I would build a sump for... That is what I was getting at... I want a fuge.

SushiGirl,
I know, I've been wanting one for months now...it's their diet holding me back...

Looked at 40B's at the LFS today...and none of them were drilled :(

[lotsoftats]

Drilling a tank is super easy....just watch a couple youtube videos and take it slow and you can do it....i just drilled 3 1" holes in an external overflow for my 75g....super easy....hell i built the internal weir and the external box for my overflow.

and I like the idea of an all invert tank.....actually if you are going to keep all softies I think you could get by with out having a sump/fuge unless you really just want it....they like a little dirtier water more so than SPS..

best of luck in your venture

[Bluemon]

just giving advices on sexy shrimps.

they DO NOT need host anemone/coral. although they are nice, they dont mind just Rocks. they do like my zoas tho. they dont eat them.

also, if you dont get pom pom crabs, shame on you.

[StephLionfish]

also, if you dont get pom pom crabs, shame on you.

:lol: They are on my list :thumbsup:


lotsoftats,
A HOB filter on a 40B seems kind of risky... I'll have to see how to drill a tank... And thanks!

[StephLionfish]

I was thinking on a RBTA... But I've heard they move a lot and sting everything in their path... Can softies handle a RBTA bulldozing through them? Also, are they hard to keep ( the anemone) ?

[Aquatic_kirch]

This is a cool idea, I need to get more inverts for my aquarium

[StephLionfish]

Saw this little critter called a "Halloween Hermit Crab". Any info on it?

[mndfreeze]

They get decently big for a hermit. Much bigger then the scarlets, blue legs, and other common small reef hermits. Tend to bulldoze a lot but are reef safe as any other hermit. Will possibly kill other hermits for shells or territory like all hermits.

[StephLionfish]

Hm...I want one for my 20g reef... but not if they kill creatures for shells...I kind of like my snails, and my pistol will steal any shells I throw in the tank.

[SushiGirl]

As for stealing shells, it depends on what Halloween hermit you're talking about.

If it's Ciliopagurus strigatus (http://www.liveaquaria.com/product/prod_display.cfm?c=497+501+1639&pcatid=1639), it only lives in shells that most other hermits don't live in (the shell in the pic, usually a conch type shell with a long narrow opening). Might steal a fighting conch shell, though LOL.

If it's this kind (http://www.toofishy.com/product.php?productid=92300&cat=524&page=1) you'd risk it stealing "regular" shells of the snails commonly in your tank.

[mndfreeze]

Hrm, I just read some stuff on the strigatus a day or two ago where it was discussed they will inhabit other shells with round openings as well, it is just not their preferred shell.

Any hermit though needs to have lots of spare shells to switch in and out of. I used reef cleaners and ordered a few hundred small shells, and like 30 big shells for my hermits. They are dirt cheap, REALLY nice variety, and they shipped way way way more then I actually ordered. You can plaster your tank with enough shells no pistol will steal them all. My tiger takes them now and then but all my hermits are happy and have tons of choices.