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x947
10/03/2011, 03:25 PM
when I do an ipconfig/all it states that the "media state = media disconnected"

I can connect with my home network fine with the DHCP on but am lost when I try to make the fixed I/P address

can someone some advice ?

RussM
10/03/2011, 03:48 PM
ipconfig output from Win7 can be confusing (assuming Win7 here). There are a number of virtual interfaces that will be listed along with physical ones. You are probably looking at the wrong interface.

Why are you trying to give your computer a static IP address?

x947
10/03/2011, 05:44 PM
I'm trying to give a static I/P address to the apex as recommended in the User's manual so that it can communicate more effectively with devices outside of my home network.

Its in both the apex manual and the Unofficial users guide. Did I misread something ?

RussM
10/03/2011, 06:40 PM
Yep! Leave that PC alone. Set the static address on the Apex itself.

aquamanic
10/03/2011, 07:16 PM
I'm trying to give a static I/P address to the apex as recommended

Russ - I think you typed too quick....

RussM
10/03/2011, 07:26 PM
X947, just let the Apex get an ip address from your router, then disable DHCP in the Apex. It's that easy. The address will then be fixed.

spivey73
10/04/2011, 08:04 AM
X947, just let the Apex get an ip address from your router, then disable DHCP in the Apex. It's that easy. The address will then be fixed.

Im sorry but that is not true. And may be the cuase of a lot of the "my power went out and I lost net connection " posts and such.

If you are doin that than that IP is still in the list to be assigned to other things on the network. It may of worked for you with the only having a few things or just timing, but there are a whole list of reasons why it will one day be assigned to something else. DHCP works on lease times which will at some point expire making that IP avaliable. The only way to set it correctly is to use a reservation with your DCHP in your router so that it assigns the same IP everytime. And most important tells it not to give that IP to something else.
Or you set it to a manual IP outside of the range its assigning. A reservation is easiest because it will automatically set your gateway, etc automatically, If you set a manual address you have to set that stuff up manually to.

spivey73
10/04/2011, 08:15 AM
when I do an ipconfig/all it states that the "media state = media disconnected"

I can connect with my home network fine with the DHCP on but am lost when I try to make the fixed I/P address

can someone some advice ?

When you do Ipconfig it will bring up a list a various connectors make sure to scroll up and find the right one. It will usually be listed as "Local Area Connection" of some sort

The ipconfig is only used to find the address of your PC if you dont know what you IP scheme or your router or anything is. If you know your router IP and know how to get into the management page, start there.

aquamanic
10/04/2011, 09:02 AM
:worried:

spivey73
10/04/2011, 09:16 AM
:worried:
:confused:

RussM
10/04/2011, 09:19 AM
Im sorry but that is not true. And may be the cuase of a lot of the "my power went out and I lost net connection " posts and such.

If you are doin that than that IP is still in the list to be assigned to other things on the network. It may of worked for you with the only having a few things or just timing, but there are a whole list of reasons why it will one day be assigned to something else. DHCP works on lease times which will at some point expire making that IP avaliable. The only way to set it correctly is to use a reservation with your DCHP in your router so that it assigns the same IP everytime. And most important tells it not to give that IP to something else.
Or you set it to a manual IP outside of the range its assigning. A reservation is easiest because it will automatically set your gateway, etc automatically, If you set a manual address you have to set that stuff up manually to.I am quite familiar with how DHCP works... been working with it for almost 20 years. While use of DHCP reservations is definitely a great way to go (that's the way I run my extensive home LAN), not that many consumer-grade routers have that feature. And yes, when I set up a router for someone so their Apex is accessible from the Internet, I typically do modify the DCHP scope if needed and assign a static address to the Apex outside the allocated pool. But that's simply best practices, and is typically not necessary in the small/home network. Most SOHO routers use various mechanisms to prevent handing out a duplicate address. Some will ping an address and wait for a no response before offering that address. Some check their ARP table for an existing address before offering it. Plus, most all modern DHCP clients (such as all versions of Windows since XP) have DAD (duplicate address detection). Apple devices also do DAD. DAD is accomplished by the client sending a gratuitous ARP broadcast after a DHCPoffer is received; if the client gets a reply to the gARP, it will then send a DHCPdecline message to the DHCP server, and the server will offer a different address. This is discussed in RFC 2131. Such mechanisms may not always work in the busy enterprise network, but they generally work well in the home LAN.

So, simply letting the Apex get a DHCP address initially and then turning off DHCP, letting the Apex retain that address permanently IS an acceptable practice for most people. And even if the Apex owner wants to pick a specific address to use, it's still easiest for the non-technical person to use this method, and then just change the last octet of the IP address as desired... the Apex will already have the proper gateway/mask/DNS.

spivey73
10/04/2011, 09:28 AM
I am quite familiar with how DHCP works... been working with it for >20 years. While use of DHCP reservations is definitely a great way to go (that's the way I run my extensive home LAN), not that many consumer-grade routers have that feature. And yes, when I set up a router for someone so their Apex is accessible from the Internet, I typically do modify the DCHP scope if needed and assign a static address to the Apex outside the allocated pool. But that's simply best practices, and is typically not necessary in the small/home network. Most SOHO routers use various mechanisms to prevent handing out a duplicate address. Some will ping an address and wait for a no response before offering that address. Some check their ARP table for an existing address before offering it. Plus, most all modern DHCP clients (such as all versions of Windows since XP) have DAD (duplicate address detection). Apple devices also do DAD. DAD is accomplished by the client sending a gratuitous ARP broadcast after a DHCPoffer is received; if the client gets a reply to the gARP, it will then send a DHCPdecline message to the DHCP server, and the server will offer a different address. This is discussed in RFC 2131. Such mechanisms may not always work in the busy enterprise network, but they generally work well in the home LAN.

So, simply letting the Apex get a DHCP address initially and then turning off DHCP, letting the Apex retain that address permanently IS an acceptable practice for most people. And even if the Apex owner wants to pick a specific address to use, it's still easiest for the non-technical person to use this method, and then just change the last octet of the IP address as desired... the Apex will already have the proper gateway/mask/DNS.

Im sorry if I offended you. Yes you obviously know DHCP and you are correct in all of your statements. But thats just it, it only works for a percentage of people at that time. for the rest it is a bad practice to spread IMOHO and Ive seen it lead to many problems by people doing that in my also 20+ years. Its just a bad idea and one of my pet peaves and I saw it before coffee lol. But Ill shut up about it if thats what you want to post people to do.

dialntone
10/04/2011, 11:33 AM
#1 http://portforward.com/networking/static-xp.htm
this website will explain how to setup a static IP address

192.168.1.123
255.255.255.0
192.168.1.1

your desktop/laptop's Ip address is 192.168.1.123

#2 after your computer is static, directly connect the apex controller ethernet cord to the back of the desktop or laptop. MAKE SURE WIRELESS IS DISABLED if laptop.

#3 On the Apex Display Module go to "circle Button" System >> Net Setup >> and Turn off DHCP Server

#4 Go on your Display Module again, and go into System >> Netsetup >> Ip Address >> and set it to something simple in the Ip Range of 192.168.1.123 for ie.g ( 192.168.1.124 )

Your Ip should be visible on the network now. and you should be able to interact with the apex controller and perform a firmware update as well...

that's it and your complete. than you can Perform, a Firmware Update.

also, some user have issues with the main webserver address "http://apex" or what ever the default host name is set on the apex controller.

Optional #5 .. go into display module and enter... System >> Net Setup and Aquaserv Setup and turn off the server
-this issue should resolve some webserver issues on the main controller.

x947
10/04/2011, 08:19 PM
Wow ! I wish I really understood half of what is being talked about here. I only know enough about this stuff to be dangerous. I will, however, say that I have reviewed and was trying to follow the instructions in both the official and unofficial user guides available.

With so many of these systems being sold, I feel that it is the responsibility of the manufacturer (since they are enjoying the benefits of my $500.00) to provided users of all knowledge levels support to "at least" be able to install and use their products.

I have been working on my install for at least 5 days now (after having to return my base unit due to it being defective), and the "system" is basically just a pile of hardware that I have to keep moving out of the way so that I don't trip over it when I feed my tank.

It is a bit discouraging after investing this much time and research into the inevitable other problems that arise when trying to solve issues in this "pc universe" and looking at the official and unofficial documentation, to just hear "all you need to do is turn the DHCP off".

I have been trying to establish the range of I/P addresses that my modem assigns, picking one outside of the range, maually assinging the address to my apex, then looking for an outside vendor to maintain the address, etc., etc, . . .

You mean all I really need to do is turn off the DHCP ?? How about someone just update the documentation to say that.

When I discuss all of the "other inevitable" problems, I mean that since trying to install this apex, I have discovered that I cannot run "ipconfig/all" on my home network's server station. Don't know why yet, but it is so. I can run it from the laptop that I use most frequently, and when I look at the "Ethernet Adapter Local Internet Connection" it does not list the four elements I believe I am looking for (i/p address, Mask, Gateway, DHCP). All I see is the Ethernet Adapter Local Internet Connection listed with "Media state = Media state disconnected", a decription which looks like the wireless card in my laptop, and a physical address.

As I said before, I'm lost and wish there were some consistent, non-tech savy, and consistent instructions for setting this equipment up.

Anybody know where I can find some of those ?

Or should I just block out a day, turn on the telnet and call the support number and just have them set this all up for me ?

aquamanic
10/04/2011, 08:36 PM
now that you have that off your chest.....

this is a user supported forum. We are all volunteering our time to help others like yourself. If you don't like the help you're getting then contact Neptune support ([email protected]).

I'm not really clear what your original issue was anyway. Do you want to take a deep breath and start over?

RussM
10/04/2011, 11:50 PM
Im sorry if I offended you. Yes you obviously know DHCP and you are correct in all of your statements. But thats just it, it only works for a percentage of people at that time. for the rest it is a bad practice to spread IMOHO and Ive seen it lead to many problems by people doing that in my also 20+ years. Its just a bad idea and one of my pet peaves and I saw it before coffee lol. But Ill shut up about it if thats what you want to post people to do.
LOL... I too am guilty of posting before being amply caffeinated :)

No offense taken. In anything but a small home network, I would do exactly as you described, not leaving anything to chance. But in cases like the OP's, an application of the KISS principle here is most likely perfectly fine. Once again, just my opinion. In helping others with the networking aspects of the Apex and port forwarding as frequently as I do using a remote support tool, I rarely see routers with DHCP reservation capability. And even if a SOHO router does support reservations, then we have to start dealing with MAC addresses in addition to IP-related parameters, further leading to confusion and frustration. So I never utilize this capability - even if available - for those who ask for my help. I do advocate and practice modifying the DHCP scope if needed, just to be on the safe side.

RussM
10/05/2011, 12:05 AM
Or should I just block out a day, turn on the telnet and call the support number and just have them set this all up for me ? A Catch-22 here - you have to have it all set up before they could telnet in to set it all up :wavehand:

Please accept my apologies for going off the geeky deep end... it was not my intention to cause further confusion, although it appears in hindsight that I did do just that.

Yes, you could just simply do as I described, let the Apex get an IP address from the router via DHCP , then disable DHCP. At the point, you do have a static address on your Apex, assuming that the APex did actually get an IP address from the router initially. As spivey73 pointed out, there is a risk that there could eventually be a conflict created by duplicate IP addresses if you just leave it at that. Both spivey73 and I agree on that point... we just differ in what we consider to be the probability of that happening at some point in the future... I consider it minimal, he does not.

Feel free to contact me via PM, and I'll work with you directly to ensure that there can not be any IP address conflict.

x947
10/05/2011, 10:08 PM
I certainly meant my comments as observations in general and they certainly were not intended to be directed at anyone specifically. This whole deal has been rather frustrating to the point and I guess I just started venting. Please accept my apologies if I ruffled any feathers. It most certainly was not my intent.

I am just gonna have to come back to the whole static I/P address thing later. I just want to get my system running at this point and I'll worry about optimal internet communications later (after looking at it again today I think I have a clearer picture of what's going on but I'm sure I'll have some questions later.

Russ - I very much appreciate your offer to "hand hold" me and I have sent you a PM on another issue related to the assignment of the module numbers.


The good news is I'm receiving email from the apex to my AOL email account at present. I'm going to revel in that success for the present.

I do realize that this forum is populated with volunteers and I do realize it is a thankless job.

spivey73
10/09/2011, 08:48 AM
:beer: