LED savings over MH

[kdeyarmin]

I have a coralife aqualight pro. It has (3) 250w MH and 4 96w CF actinic bulbs. I have noticed my electric bill go up at least 75.00 a month since I've gotten the light (although I have added a lot of other stuff for my aquarium around the same time) but I wonder if anybody knows exactly how much electric a switch to an LED light fixture would be? Also, what you would recommend for a 180 gallon (72" long).
Thanks!!

[JustinM]

Depends on your photoperiod and many watts of led you're going to use. There is a tank electrical tab on the home page to enter the info. Can't help you with the led question though. Good luck.

Justin

[harthag12]

Well your light is putting off 1134 watts per hour, electricity in PA is roughly 11cents a kilowat hour so if you run your lights 8 hours a day that's just over 9kilowatts or 99 cents a day from the lights alone, that's $30 a month.

Since I don't know your tank size but obviously big by that fixture if we figure 6 AI Sol units at 72 watts a piece that's 432 w/h or 3,456 per 8 hours so roughly 38cents a day or 11.40 a month.

Whether you run the Leds full power etc the entire time, or your current unit it woudl change the numbers but that's a rough estimate. Factor in bulb cost savings as well when you look at the LED fixtures. Oh duh you said 180 gal, I really don't know how many units you'd need but i'm betting 6-8 would suffice.

[Zalman]

The other thing to factor in is that LEDs wont transfer heat into your tank. So you wont need a chiller, or at least not use it as much.

[James77]

It would greatly depend on your electric rate and what you switched to. The halides are enough power usage, but 400 watts of PCs are a waste of watts and bulbs as well. You could just switch to led actinics and still save. I'm sure the other stuff you added plays a role in the $75 dollar bill hike..... You'd have to run that light fixture at full power 24/7 to equal roughly 75 bucks a month, if your electric rates are average.

[grigsy]

The other thing to factor in is that LEDs wont transfer heat into your tank. So you wont need a chiller, or at least not use it as much.

Most people who use halides dont use a chiller

[GSMguy]

The other thing to factor in is that LEDs wont transfer heat into your tank. So you wont need a chiller, or at least not use it as much.

What happens to the electricity used? Either it is converted into light and then converted back into heat when it reaches the tank or it turns into heat in the LED and is dissipated thru the heatsink into the room. Either way, if it uses electricity it makes heat.

Halides are usually passively cooled so the heat that comes off them goes up into the room and down into the tank in the form of light energy just the same as LED. The major difference is watts used, usually LED systems use less electricity so less heat. Saying LED doesn't transfer heat to your tank is false.

[kdeyarmin]

I went to Home Depot today and bought a "Kill a watt". It's a meter to measure how much electricity an item uses. I am going to let it go for a full 24 hours, to get the full spectrum of my day/night lights. Any guesses on how much money the light costs me in 24 hours? I will let everybody know after 4pm tomorrow. :)

[James77]

It depends on how many hours you run it and what your electric rate is. It uses about 1.2 kwh every hour is is run. If your electric rate is $.12 it would cost 14 cents per hour to run with everything on.

[krshlln300]

GSMGuy:
He is not entirely "false" in stating that the led does not transfer heat into the tank Halides, pc's, and t5's use a radiation based reaction of a gas being in contact with an arc of electricity to produce light, this contact between gas and electricity produces a great amount of heat which will naturally heat up anything in the surrounding area, including an aquarium. LED lights are exactly what the name states via acronym, they are a Light Emitting Diode. LED lights do not contain a filament or electrical arcs, instead they contain a high quality semiconductor material and produce light via the high speed movement of electrons over that semiconductor material. This produces a mere fraction of the heat as ANY halide, PC or T5 bulbs. Now with aquarium grade manufactured LED fixtures such as the AI Sol, there are integrated heatsinks that pretty much dissapate any heat produced by the diode. The only way that a reasonably measurable amount of heat would be dissipated into the aquarium would be from a failing or low quality heatsink (Such as some DIY fixtures), or having the fixture literally a few inches from the surface of the water. additional heat would be added via any t5 or other lighting as many LED users in our hobby use them as supplements to t5 or halide/pc lighting.

[cjscott]

I went to Home Depot today and bought a "Kill a watt". It's a meter to measure how much electricity an item uses. I am going to let it go for a full 24 hours, to get the full spectrum of my day/night lights. Any guesses on how much money the light costs me in 24 hours? I will let everybody know after 4pm tomorrow. :)

This is awesome as I have wondered this many times. I interested to hear the results.

[austin93]

Also need to figure in how much it will cost to heat your tank. My halides are my heater for half the day. LEDs will mean possibly running your heaters more. I have 2*300w on my tank. Quite a source of extra electricity.

[kdeyarmin]

That is a good point, to look at the whole picture... What it costs in the summer to run my cooler due to the MH's heat, and also the lack of the heaters having to work in the winter, due to the heat from the MH's.
At face value, we'll see what it costs for just the lights. I am going to take it to my basement next and seeing how much my sump/refugium (where my heater is) is costing me to run.

[snorvich]

Most people who use halides dont use a chiller

Really? In my experience users of MH do use chillers.

[ksc]

I've run many mh lit tanks with no chiller. Of course if you pop a pair of 400 watters in a box and put it on top of your tank you will probably have issues. But with proper ventilation and a couple of fans there is usually no need for a chiller. Then, as stated above, there is the added benefit of heating your tank "for free"...

[Meshmez]

keep in mind some electric companies have different pricing tiers depending on how much you use. After you go over a certain amount of usage in a month the price per kilowatt hour increases... it can go up quite a bit, and quickly

[James77]

I've never needed a chiller in the years I have used halides. The only time I may have needed one and was about to implement one was when I had a poorly vented canopy. A couple computer fans cool the tank fine in the couple of hot months. During the fall winter and spring, the halides help save money by not having the heater run. Any electric savings I would get from LEDs would be washed away from running 500 watts of heaters that would normally not be running from the halides.

[Sk8r]

correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe 'traditional' tungsten house lighting throws of 75% of its energy as heat, the remaining fraction as light (which is why going over to CFLs lets you have brighter light for less money). MH is pretty strong in the 'heat' department, too. So for me, it would make my heater work harder, but save me somewhat in lighting costs. I think you would have to monitor both heater and mh system. [We're fairly lucky here in the PNW, thanks to Grand Coulee and windpower: we're 12.50 cents a kilowatt-hour. It's certainly worse in other places.]

I've always been mh, and even in a poorly airconditioned apartment in a 100 degree summer, I've never needed a chiller, just a sump fan.

[NatureNerd]

Back to the economics... I went from 2 x 175W MH's with VHO supplements to three AI Sol's. E-bill has been, on average $32/month less. I used fans rather than a chiller. This is over a seven month period. If my family had a higher base usage, like my neighbor, the savings would be almost double. We rarely run the air conditioner.

[James77]

How many VHOs did you have? What is your electric rate?

[NatureNerd]

How many VHOs did you have? What is your electric rate?

I had two 48" bulbs: one actinic, one 50/50. They ran for 6 hrs each day. The MH's ran for 11hrs.

Electric rates are a little hard to determine, as baseline is just 0.12 /kWhr but the rates go up to 0.34 /kWhr at the high end. Baseline usage is just 330 kWhr's. Most families use significantly more than that even without a glass, multi-thousand dollar home for wayward corals. For my household, where we use ~700 kWhr's, the reef tank useage is all at 0.34 as it really is an "extra" non-essential.

[kdeyarmin]

The result... .76 a day to run my MH's - which equates, for my electric charges, 22.50/month. The electric rate that I used was .076 /KWH, which I have to say, having read this thread, I am lucky to have it that low. I am going to do my sump/refugium next, but all I have in there is a 1400gph pump, a flourescent light and a protein skimmer. Can't imagine it is even a few dollars a month.
The other unanticipated result of MH's is the residual heat that I get for my room. :)

[dlp211]

The result... .76 a day to run my MH's - which equates, for my electric charges, 22.50/month. The electric rate that I used was .076 /KWH, which I have to say, having read this thread, I am lucky to have it that low. I am going to do my sump/refugium next, but all I have in there is a 1400gph pump, a flourescent light and a protein skimmer. Can't imagine it is even a few dollars a month.
The other unanticipated result of MH's is the residual heat that I get for my room. :)

7.6 cents. I envy you my friend. I am just shy of 20 cents a kwh. LEDs make more and more sense the more it costs per kwh.

[tahiriqbal]

What happens to the electricity used? Either it is converted into light and then converted back into heat when it reaches the tank or it turns into heat in the LED and is dissipated thru the heatsink into the room. Either way, if it uses electricity it makes heat.

Halides are usually passively cooled so the heat that comes off them goes up into the room and down into the tank in the form of light energy just the same as LED. The major difference is watts used, usually LED systems use less electricity so less heat. Saying LED doesn't transfer heat to your tank is false.

Would you like to shed some light as how much a decent LED lighting system with active cooling system may add heat to your fish tank? Majority of LED lighting fixtures are hung up reasonably high when compared with halide and T5 lighting fixtures, which means LED fixtures are in better position to receive ample fresh airflow from ambient room temperature. When you say LED produce heat, yes they do but with active cooling you can keep the heatsink and room temperature in balance hence very little or no chance for heat to transfer.
Tahir

[m2434]

It's my understanding that LEDs, PAR for PAR aren't more efficient than halides per say. The difference is that they direct light better. If you consider total light output, halides are still more efficient, but halides don't necessarily get the light were you want it, so, a lot is wasted that way. I should note LEDs are more efficient lumen for lumen, but this is a useless matric, you could have 20 lumens of green light and 1 lumen of blue light and exactly the same PAR. Lumens are weighted to the sensitivity of the human eye, which has nothing to do with photosynthesis.

I always use the rectangle example. If you have a square and put a halide over it, the halide will illuminate it well, as it's designed to light a circular area which is close to a square for most purposes.. If you put that halide over a rectangle, it won't illuminate it well, a lot of light will be wasted over the front or back, or you'll only illuminate a small part of it and then it may be low enough to cause heat issues. If you want to illuminate a tank PAR for PAR, with exactly the same spread as a halide though, on a square tank, you won't really get an improvement. Many people do see an improvement, but that seems to be more because their PAR numbers are lower (on average, not necessarily at the brightest area). If you light a rectangular tank though, you can basically double the efficient, just because your fitting the shape of the tank correctly. Many people do seem to do a bit better than this though. I think this is because, halides are roughly the same price regardless of wattage, so, people are using much more halides than they need, so, there is room to decrease this as well. Or people are using inefficient reflectors with their halides, such as parabolic "spider reflectors" etc...

This article shows the footprint of various lighting for example:
http://www.advancedaquarist.com/2010/2/aafeature2

As for heat, I believe LEDs still waste more energy as heat than halides, but the heat goes to the back of them, and the heatsink, where it rises and dissipates, rather than the front where your tank it.

[GSMguy]

Hey guys, what happens when you go out in the sunlight? Is sunlight warm? ;) The light energy converts to heat when it reaches the water.
How many commercial LED units use 400w?
I've used halides and T5s and never had issues with heat but I know some do.

I totally understand the desire to lower electric bills.

[Zalman]

LEDs dont use 400w because they are a more efficient light source. Other bulbs produce heat in addition to light.

[GSMguy]

Oh I forgot, LEDs are magical.

Have yet to see an LED fixture that has the PAR and spread of a 400 w halide in a good reflector.

[chadfarmer]

Oh I forgot, LEDs are magical.

Have yet to see an LED fixture that has the PAR and spread of a 400 w halide in a good reflector.

i had 250w and 400w and ran a chiller than switched to t5s and the chiller was no longer needed

the thing about leds it that you can dim them down or dim them in to the desired level you want

i do now run leds and i like them i even kept my halides as back ups if i didn't like them

i was do to replace my bulbs on my halides and decided to take the plunge on the leds after having them on my frag tank that grew corals under them.

i went from 700- watts down to Watts and i dim the LEDs for 2 hours up to there peak than do the same later in the night

lots of led bashing just like when i go my t5 light and there was about 8 different bulbs to buy

in the united states we are behind in leds more than other country's that didn't have the patents to deal with

a watt is a watt no matter what you do

[GSMguy]

a watt is a watt no matter what you do

that's all im saying. I have no problem with LEDs

I used to run 580w of halide ( the m-80 ballast ran at 290w) now I have 6x39w t5 and only run all 6 bulbs 4 hours a day and 4 bulbs for 12 hours. I did not do it to save money, just to get better PAR, spread and color. If I save a few dollars great. I plan on ordering a small LED for my maroon clown tank for the moonlight similation.

[James77]

LEDs dont use 400w because they are a more efficient light source. Other bulbs produce heat in addition to light.

LEDs produce heat as well. You can feel it on your hand underneath the light and you need to use heatsinks and sometimes fans to dissipate the heat so it does not damage the LED. All the energy converted to light will go back to heat as it strikes surfaces in the aquarium.

[njreefermadness]

My personal experience is w/ running 3 x 250 watt SE radiums w/ 2 160 watt 6 ft actinic vhos versus 6 AI sol blue modules.

My chiller still runs, but not as much as it did. When I stick my and under my hood, there is a big difference between the MH and the LEDs.

My wattage went from over 1000 Watts, to somewhere around 300 or so.

One thing I did lose was my 750 Watt MH "heater". My heaters need to run a bit more now to make up for this loss of heat input into the tank during the cooler months.

What I did gain was tremendous control over my illumination schedule w/ highly sophisticated dimming and color temperature control that you could never get w/ MH lighting. Not sending numerous bulbs w/ hazzardous/toxic materials to the landfill every year is also an eco benefit as well.

Just my 2 cents.

Herb

[NatureNerd]

Just assume that the amount of power consumed, is all going to eventually be heat. Then, the big difference is the LED efficiencies. At the same level of light output, power consumption is way down. In my case, 500W of MH and flour. vs 200W of LED.

Also, look at what spectral bins that light is in. Light not in a bin used for the creation of "food" by the symbiotic algae in our corals is wasted. My old MH's were pretty broad in terms of output. Much of that was wasted. Note that I used 10k bulbs. I have not looked at the spectral output of others.

Next, look at how localized is the heat and how easy is it to remove from your system? LED's have a slight advantage here.

One final aspect in my decision of LED vs MH (after a decade of MH use) was safety. Almost no one mentions this. Because of the awkward nature of my light hood, and maybe my coordination levels, I used to burn myself on my MH's quite often. I also worried about my kids who hand-feed some fish and cleaner shrimps. Not having super-hot bulbs over the tank is a good idea. Not having high voltage above water, another good idea. Not having bulbs that could burst if splashed, yet another good thing. What cost, safety?