Hoping someone can explain this & save my reef

[fullmonti]

I have a 180gal sps system, large skimmer, ozone reactor, 65gal sump (full of extra rock), 30gal frag tank. The frag tank was a nps tank tied to the system. After several months the extra feeding of the nps tank started causing aiptasia & hair algae in the display. I cleaned out the nps tank, & it took a good while but finally got rid of the hair algae using the tech M process.

All was well for awhile, then the HA started coming back. By the time I figured out one or more of my RODI cartridges had unexpectedly died the HA had a pretty good start. This was about four months ago (seems much longer). I tried the tech M again did nothing this time. Ever since I have been doing two water changes a week, started running GFO (never ever used it before), nitrate has been less than one, phosphate .03-.02 checked it today using Hanna meter .01, doing extra cleaning of tank & sump, plus spending 3-4 hours a week picking the stuff off the rocks.

I can't understand how algae can keep growing in these conditions. The system is so clean I hardly have any pods any more.

I posted this on the Bryopsis thread hoping to get some insight on how to kill this crap, but after reading much of the thread & seeing what extreme things others have done (mostly involved taking their live rock out & doing harsh things to them) & much of the time it comes back anyway I am more discouraged/depressed than before.

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=167632&page=11 link with photos & more details.

I'm hoping some more people will see this thread & be able to offer an explanation of how this can be & some way to kill this reef plague.

The last thing I can think to do is put in a algae scrubber, which I have done about a week or so ago. It is just starting to grow some algae in it (all the new acrylic it is made from also shut my skimmer down). If this doesn't work I'm about ready to take every thing out of the tank & start over with fish only & only enough light to view by or fresh water system.

Is there hope short of taking every thing out & nuking it?

Jim

[NinjaBum]

Current algal population could be simply consuming as much as it needs to grow. Total available NO3 and PO4 is more before their consumption comes into play. Knock them down to zero while removing the hair algae and make sure they stay at zero. Chances are the less hair algae you have, the harder it will be to keep them at zero because the hair algae is actually helping you bring those nutrients down.

Algae scrubber will help. As you remove it from the display, more will be able to grow on the scrubber. Eventually the scales should tip and you'll hopefully have all of your nutrients being consumed by the algae on the scrubber leaving no room for any to grow in the display.

[acrohead500ppm]

here is a little write up I just posted in another thread.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1911839&page=2

[keithqueef]

Google algae turf scrubber problem solved

[Borchers]

Tech M is my only way that I killed bryopsis. It weeks keeping the mag at 1600 plus. Give it a whirl. But please this was my experience it may not work for everyone.

[rajkovich207]

I have a major HA problem in my 5.5 gallon tank, I finally threw in the towel and upgraded to a 20 long earlier this week and will be sending the Corals through a black out period over the course of a few weeks. But before I gave up (due to patience) I made a large dent in the algae. I set up an ATS just about a month ago and it started off slow but has since taken off like crazy, thigh I dont care for it much but that's because of how I made it ;) I also added 2 red leg hermits and a zebra hermit and they REALLY munched away on the stuff! My tank was to small for a turbo snail but do yourself a favor and buy several of these things, I personally would shoot for 3-5. I also added a skimmer as I didn't have one to begin with, and upgraded my lights but have them on only for about 6 hours a day. The turf scrubber requires intense lighting for 18-24 hours a day so I had to have mine on longer for the sake of the scrubbed. Also amphipods feast on the stuff, over the last week I cut down a bit on harvesting the HA in the tank and have noticed they are GREAT in numbers, and the ha has gotten even less, I attributed this to constant harvesting in the tank to working like a ATS. Anyways I'm sorry for the book :) I don't know what may be causing your blooms unless your using zeolites. But I have a very good knowledge of algae turf scrubbers and a few other tricks to rid the algae. If you have any questions please PM me as I'm sire ill loose your post lol.

[fullmonti]

I appreciate the support, but I have already done the things talked about (ATS not really up to speed yet). And it may not exactly be known how algae can grow in such sterile conditions. Apparently what is for sure, once it gets started it takes extreme measures for months to get rid of the stuff (if ever). And if you do manage to kill it, much if not most of the time when you go back to normal operations it will come back. These are the things that I find so discouraging.

Jim

[fullmonti]

Feel free to say if I'm whining.

[howze01]

I think that the 2nd reply is right. I don't think that your tank is as "sterile" as you think. Any extra nutrients are being soaked up by the HA and giving you a "false" reading.

The 2nd point is true also. Take it out little by little and it will give your algae srubber time to get up and running. As you take out more HA, it will give your scrubber more nutrients.

A question for you too. You mentioned the Tech M not working. Isn't the Tech M treatment used for Bryopsis, not HA? Is this the same thing as last time?

[fullmonti]

Ya it has to be eating some thing, might be sucking it out of the rocks. Between more water changes, GFO, & less feeding there hasn't been much new coming in for it to eat.

I just spent another three hours today picking it off the rocks.

As I remember it this looks like the same stuff, but not sure at all. I also tried Algaefix thinking if it was normal HA that might do it.

I'm keeping up the maintenance, but a planted Discus tank is looking better & better.

[howze01]

Have you tried any natural solutions? From what I hear Sea Hares love to chomp on hair algae.

[fullmonti]

I have around 3,000gph going through my overflow. I don't think they would last long. But I have heard the same thing about them.

Keep thinking, maybe you'll come up with something I haven't heard of or tried.

Thanks
Jim

[fullmonti]

Sorry I need to vent. And still hoping for ideas/explanations.

I understand

Algae is sucking up nutrients out of the water so readings may not be a accurate.

It must be eating something.

How it got started, RO cartridge went bad.

What I do not understand.

I only have eight fish in a 180gal tank, 65gal sump, 30gal frag tank. 2 about 5", 1 about 4 & the rest are smallish (clowns, filefish, blenny) This is not a heavily stocked system.

I have a over sized skimmer, use socks on inlets to sump, a lot of extra rock in sump, ozone system, dose carbon source, do two 10% water changes a week, do more cleaning & picking of every thing than is reasonable & for months now the HA has not slowed down at all! I'm not talking about a little algae here & there, I'm talking every where. So much so it will & has killed small corals from over growing them, if I don't spend hours every week picking it off.

This Should Not Be!

I/we have all seen over stocked under filtered & maintained tanks with no algae. My tank is so clean there are hardly any pods left. It's been about three weeks now & the algae scrubber has very little algae started (mostly the brown stuff very little green) I think because there is so much every place else in the system it's having a hard time getting started. There must be some source of nutrients for the HA that I just don't understand. Any idea what it could be???? By the way all my sps & fish look great & are growing at a good rate, so other than the HA the tank is in good heath.

Even if I never beat this stuff I would like to understand the source of the problem. I hate not knowing why!

[MentalNote]

Could phosphates be leaching out of the rocks?

I am in a similar situation - though I could only dream of having as nice a display tank as you. I am removing the rocks that I added a year ago, I have been battling phosphates ever since.

On other threads it has been recommended to take out your rocks and put them in a separate container and see if the phosphates rise. Using lanthanum chloride would speed up removing phosphates without killing off the bacteria. If done in a separate container you wouldn't have to worry about harming your fish. Here is a quote from tmz regarding the process:

"Simply,cure it as you would new live rock in a container of salt water. Test the water to see if it's leaching phosphate over the course of a week or so. If not ,leaching PO4 is likely not an issue. If it is ,reduce the PO4 in the water to 0 with lanthanum chloride such as Seaklear and keep the water at near 0 with lanthanum additions, testing along the way until the water in the container maintains near 0 PO4 readings for a week without any lanthanum . Rinse any lanthanum phosphate precipitant off the rock by swirling it in the container before placing it in the tank. IME this process takes two to three weeks for rock from old tanks that has been exposed to very high PO4 level. It requires no water changes. and is relatively inexpensive." Here is the thread. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1914426&highlight=cooking+rocks&page=3

Another possibility may be AlgaeFix. I know you described this as hair algae but posted in the Bryopsis thread. If it is Bryopsis it won't work but if it is regular hair algae it should. Some people have had great results but there seems to be some risk. Here is the link to the thread. http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1595003&highlight=algaefix

Just tossing out some ideas.

[fullmonti]

Thanks for that info, that is interesting. I wonder what would happen to corals if they were still on the rocks? My rocks are epoxied together, have large corals incrusted on them, some epoxied to back wall, one is about 24" across, so don't think it will help me. Maybe someone else will see this & help them? I did try the AlgaeFix, the first thing, nothing. I have been referring to this as HA but I believe it really is Bryopsis.

I have put out the word to the local reef community I'm going to break this tank down & set it up as a freshwater planted tank with Discus. So all live stock & some of the equipment are for sale. I will truly miss my large reef, but I'm done dealing with this stuff. I will keep my 16" bubble nano saltwater & may build a cold water nano later. If you'd like to see the bubble take I have a build thread on it. It's really nice. I haven't done an update on it lately because the skimmer for it is still not working. Holding off adding anything to it till skimmer issue is resolved. I have a nem on hold for it & will keep my pair of clowns from big tank for it as well.

http://reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1997195

Thanks again to all of those who tried to help with this, RC & it's members are a great resource!!!!

Jim

[GrendelPrime76]

sucks that ur concidering breaking ur reef down but u can never go wrong with a planted discus tank, i had a discus tank for yrs and i realy miss it

[fullmonti]

Definite bummer. Every thing else with the reef is doing great. Assuming I eventually did get rid of this crap, the thought of it being likely it would come back if given half a chance is just too much.

I hadn't planed on it, but I think I will try a couple of frags of my favorite smaller slow growing sps in the bubble tank. I also have a clam that would look nice in there (if I can be sure all the HA & purple polyps have been scrubbed of the shell). If you like nanos be sure & check out the thread on the bubble.