Certain screw types and lengths for stand ?

[drew930]

Was going to build a 180 gallon stand. Any certain types of screws your supposed to use ? Is the length of screw supposed to be just long enough to attach the boards ?

[der_wille_zur_macht]

What material will the stand be made from and how will the screws be used?

[peppie]

Typically the screw should be twice the length of the material it is going thru. Dry wall screws are most commonly used. It is wise to drill a pilot hole before running in a screw. And dont skimp on the glue.

[BeanAnimal]

Drywall screws are for... wait for it... drywall :)

Drywall screws are very brittle and not really suitable for shear type loading as would be found in most portions of a stand build. Steel lag screws, bolts or wood screws are the proper fastener (depending on location) and in some instances galvanized would be a good choice.

[drew930]

I was going to do the 2x4 stand . In my case ... 2x4's and 2x6's . I'm going to screw them together and also glue them.
I was thinking about using 3" or 3 1/2" screws . Should I go 4" screws then ?

What type of glue should I use ?

[peppie]

Drywall screws are for... wait for it... drywall :)

Drywall screws are very brittle and not really suitable for shear type loading as would be found in most portions of a stand build. Steel lag screws, bolts or wood screws are the proper fastener (depending on location) and in some instances galvanized would be a good choice.

If the stand is designed and built properly with the correct jointery and glue there is no reason why you cannot use drywall screws. There should be no joint in your stand that relies on the screw to hold any shear weight.

[der_wille_zur_macht]

If the stand is designed and built properly with the correct jointery and glue there is no reason why you cannot use drywall screws. There should be no joint in your stand that relies on the screw to hold any shear weight.

While I agree with you to an extent, you have to see the irony in what you're saying - "design the stand properly and it won't matter if you make a poor choice of fastener." If you're designing the stand "properly," why not just go ahead and use proper fasteners? Which, judging by the OP's description, is probably plain old wood screws.

[peppie]

While I agree with you to an extent, you have to see the irony in what you're saying - "design the stand properly and it won't matter if you make a poor choice of fastener." If you're designing the stand "properly," why not just go ahead and use proper fasteners? Which, judging by the OP's description, is probably plain old wood screws.

You have a good point. I have worked wood for over 20 yrs. If you are skilled in woodworking there are no need for any type of fasteners. Joints and glue is all you need. I am just saying drywall screws used properly would be more than enough to hold your joint together until the glue dries. If you are relying on the screw to hold any type of weight you need to re think how the joint applies to its purpose.
If you choose to use a steel screw, do it. If you choose to use the proper joint, the screw means nothing.

[2Quills]

FWIW, I use 3" decking screws for 2x lumber in stand construction and TiteBond 2 or TiteBond 3 glue.

[BeanAnimal]

If you are skilled in woodworking there are no need for any type of fasteners. Joints and glue is all you need.

That is a fanciful thought, but does not hold with reality. The use of proper fasteners can SIGNIFICANTLY reduce joint and/or lumber size requirements and/or significantly reduce the complexity of the joinery required. That is, just because something can be done a certain way, does not mean it should be done that way.

A "proper" joint is one that meets the load and durability requirements of the application. For TYPICAL structural joints in an open aquarium stand GLUE and/or DRYWALL screws do not meet the requirements.

If you wish to build tenon joints held together with wooden pegs and hide glue with a dovetailed trim, that is up to you. However, most DIYers (even those with significant woodworking and/or joinery skills) will choose to use simpler means of attachment with properly selected fasteners and save the fancy joinery for an application where it can be appreciated.

[drew930]

Yes . I will be using screws and glue because I do not have a lot of wood wood working skills . But... I do know how to make my joints and how to screw the boards so they are straight :) Whats the difference in TiteBond 2 and TiteBond 3

[2Quills]

Yes . I will be using screws and glue because I do not have a lot of wood wood working skills . But... I do know how to make my joints and how to screw the boards so they are straight :) Whats the difference in TiteBond 2 and TiteBond 3

2 is weather proof, sets faster, not quite as strong but bonds better with oily woods.

3 is water proof, little stronger, longer set up.

Either one will work fine for typical butt joints with fasteners for this application, provided that your design is sufficient for the task. I've used all of them but I like 3 for this application.

[Shu13]

I was going to do the 2x4 stand . In my case ... 2x4's and 2x6's . I'm going to screw them together and also glue them.
I was thinking about using 3" or 3 1/2" screws . Should I go 4" screws then ?

What type of glue should I use ?
3" will work perfect....using a drill bit the size of the shaft portion of the screw(not the threads) would be advised to help reduce splitting when screwing near the end of the boards but also isn't necessary....if you want to use 3" "drywall" screws go ahead they are plenty strong enough to old a stand together....sometimes people on the internet like to debate petty little stuff for whatever reasons rather then just make the simple answer...

[drew930]

alright. Would it be good to use the 3 on the wood I'm screwing together , then it ll set and dry after their screwed. And use 2 for the outside pieces such as trim ?

[2Quills]

On my current build I used 3 for my frame and then used 2 for the skin, doors and trim.

I'd stay away from the dry wall screws myself, unless you plan on sealing everything up real good (which I do). Moisture will cause those drywall screws to deteriorate pretty bad after a few years. I've seen them used on outdoor fencing before to make repairs and after about 3 years they virtually disintigrated.

[Shu13]

On my current build I used 3 for my frame and then used 2 for the skin, doors and trim.

I'd stay away from the dry wall screws myself, unless you plan on sealing everything up real good (which I do). Moisture will cause those drywall screws to deteriorate pretty bad after a few years. I've seen them used on outdoor fencing before to make repairs and after about 3 years they virtually disintigrated.
And if a stand sees as much weather and sprinklers as an outdoor fence then there are more issues to deal w/ then what screws are used to hold together a stand...

Myself I'm a contractor and I have built a ton of stands over the years and have never had a single stand come close to falling apart or lose strength (become unsturdy)and they are all built w/ drywall/deck screws...

[drew930]

On my current build I used 3 for my frame and then used 2 for the skin, doors and trim.

I'd stay away from the dry wall screws myself, unless you plan on sealing everything up real good (which I do). Moisture will cause those drywall screws to deteriorate pretty bad after a few years. I've seen them used on outdoor fencing before to make repairs and after about 3 years they virtually disintigrated.

I will do exactly that !!! Thanks for advice . I don't even know the basics about the glue. Just figured I would make it a little extra strong because its gonna be holding a 180 gallon

[2Quills]

And if a stand sees as much weather and sprinklers as an outdoor fence then there are more issues to deal w/ then what screws are used to hold together a stand...

Myself I'm a contractor and I have built a ton of stands over the years and have never had a single stand come close to falling apart or lose strength (become unsturdy)and they are all built w/ drywall/deck screws...

To each is own.

I've done some contracting as well. Demo'd plenty of walls and have seen the deterioration caused to standard drywall screws when moisture gets inside of walls. They rust/deteriorate quickly and easily to the point were it takes little to no effort to snap the head off of one with a drill. Depending on what equipment you are running inside of a stand the conditions can be quite humid. So unless I planned on sealing everything real good then I personally wouldn't not use them for anything other then hanging drywall. I prefer coated screws in this case. But I'm anal when it comes to stuff like that. Tend to even go over kill on some things when it's not always necessary. For structural support, where moist conditions are present then I don't trust or use them.

[Gorgok]

They rust/deteriorate quickly and easily to the point were it takes little to no effort to snap the head off of one with a drill.

I often snap the head off (or break the shaft/shank) of ones without any exposure =D. But i have snapped and broken many a screw in many a place.

[2Quills]

I often snap the head off (or break the shaft/shank) of ones without any exposure =D. But i have snapped and broken many a screw in many a place.

Not all that hard to do with too much tork, especially with composit screws. I wouldn't use those for structure either. But they're fine for securing deck boards and will last probably the life of a deck. What I'm talking about is weakening to the point you could easily snap with a screw driver. Perhaps it's just worse down here in my part of the country where high humidity is a way of life. And cheap construction is prevalent, so I've seen enough to make me feel that drywall screws don't belong anywhere other than in the trash.

[wlatino30]

bump

[cody6766]

I buy a good box of deck screws to do the job. I make sure they're long enough to make it half way through the last piece of wood without breaking through. Drywall screws are fine for holding a skin on and will probably work fine for the structure, but I'd rather use something designed to hold a load on the support structure.

[daplatapus]

FYI, cedar or pressure treated wood requires a specially coated screw so the oils do not deteriorate the screw. You can easily get them at HD or Lowes. If you are using standard spruce or fir (I would recommended the fir as it's significantly stronger but more expensive) you can get away with a non-coated deck screw or similar.

[BeanAnimal]

Cedar will not destroy a screw, but many screws will discolor the wood quickly.

Many modern PT lumber products (like ACQ, CBA-A and CA-B ) are HIGHLY corrosive to most metals, it is not the "oil" it is the treatment product (Alkaline Copper Quaternary for example) that does the damge.

[Donw]

Wood screws are clamping screws since the top half has no threads, and rely on the head. Full thread screws make a mechanical means on both sides and dont rely on the head. You wont find a better screw than Spax multi drives in full thread. But...... the joint has to be clamped prior to putting in the full thread spax screws.

Don