NO3:PO4 and Cyano

[reefcanario]

For a while I am proposing the use of NO3: P04 in my tank of 500 liters. Currently my parameters are: N03 = 10 ppm. and P04 = 0.08 ppm.

I have a few small areas with cyano bacteria for 3 months and I can not eradicate them.

Can I start using the N03-P04 for getting down the parameters or will it serve as food and will I have a cyano invasions?

Greetings from the Canary Islands

Manuel

[RedSea Aviad]

Dear Manuel,
The cyano you are having in your tank might be due to lack of flows.
If your tank is new it should disappear with time.
NO3:PO4-X will not encourage cyano growth, but reduce it by depriving PO4 that is necessary for its growth.

Please consider watching the second video in particular, and if you have time watch all of them:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2078858

Using NO3:PO4-X in a way that reduces NO3 levels too fast and leaving PO4 rich water, encourage cyano growth, so you need to follow the directions carfuly.
Here are some threads about NO3:PO4-X
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19312795#post19312795

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2073141

Let me know how it worked for you.
All the best,
Aviad

[reefcanario]

thank you very much for the help.

[RedSea Aviad]

Your very welcome.
Keep me posted with your progress.
If you can document it and give us before and after pictures, it could be nice.
Have a great day,
Aviad

[klaz]

hi there.
i have a tank 430ltrs.
i have no3=50+:uhoh3:
i want to start today nopox.i must start in 12 ml per day for how long?and i put it to dosometric.i must dosing in a day maby in 3 or 4 times those mls or its better to dosing in my sub at once?
thanks

[RedSea Aviad]

Hello,
You should add 8ml a day as a start.
You can do it once or divide it to two doses of 4ml.
Keep monitoring the NO3 and adjust the amount dosed accordingly.
Let me know how it worked for you.
All the best,
Aviad

[klaz]

thank you.i start and i hope for the best.before i start dosing i have see cyano only in a few spots on live rock.i hope nopox eliminate this sitution of cyano also...

[reefcanario]

I have been additive during NO3-PO4 few days and have noticed a considerable increase in the proliferation of cyano, so I'll have to stop adding this carbon source until you have eradicated the older people.

Any advice?

regards

[RedSea Aviad]

Using NO3:PO4-X in a way that reduces NO3 levels too fast and leaving PO4 rich water, encourages cyano growth, so you need to follow the directions carfuly.



With the use of NO3:PO4-X, and the imbalance between NO3 and PO4, in order to prevent cyanobacteria we recommend not to drop the NO3 levels to 0.
When we have elevated levels of PO4 (usually new tanks) it will take more time BUT they will eventually drop.
If the levels go up, it means that there is something that is “exporting” PO4- in most cases overfeeding, “dead zones” where uneaten food is collected and decompose, insufficient filtration and so on.

Removing the cyanobacteria will assist with accelerating the process of eradicating it.
Keep me posted.
The best of luck,
Aviad

[klaz]

i using 5 days now nopox.i have notice nothing change in my hi no3 levels.the cyano continues growing.what i can do?i continue nopox,something else?
thanks

[AquamanSE]

i using 5 days now nopox.i have notice nothing change in my hi no3 levels.the cyano continues growing.what i can do?i continue nopox,something else?
thanks

You may only want Aviads response to your question however I would totally suggest a bacteria for that carbon! I say pick up Prodibio biodigest of course prior to dosing it do a water change and siphon the shiznit out of it. I use RS Methonal & has been a great carbon source for me. Repeat weekly In a couple weeks its gone.

Oh & I am confident because thats what I did:)

*Another thought you need a good skimmer/makes all the difference*

[klaz]

thanks AquamanSE.i already use brightwell microbacter7 in a small portions,but i have see 2 things.first a lot of dark skimmate,and my cyano grows up very fast.
it is possible the nopox which probaly is a carbon source,can help cyano grows ?
i dont know what i do right now.maby i stop nopox completly and make small water changes?only 6 days i use it and still my no3 is very high.my phosfates also hi.pls help.

[RedSea Aviad]

Dear Klaz,
How old is the tank?
What is the exact level of NO3?
DO NOT STOP, be patient you need to wait to see result.
Please find out why you nutrient levels are so high?
NOPOX does not encourage cyanobacteria.
Keep me posted.
Aviad

[RedSea Aviad]

A great article about NO3:PO4-X
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2094884
Enjoy,
Aviad

[klaz]

thanks.
my tank is 2,5 years old,and my no3 was always about 10-15.now the last 3 monts are in huge numbers about 80!!!!
from one week now i use nopox,and until now no results,and the cyano is growing very fast(from the day i start nopox) each day in almost my live rock.my aragonite is clear.
i think i have level up my no3 with much feeding first,and second i have put a new naso tang.now in 430 ltrs i have 3 tangs,and some smaller fishes.
i use aqualight antiphos and i have about 0,9 po4!!.my chaeto also dont work.
what i sould do from now on?
maby water changes help me in this phase or not?maby i use chemi clean?something else..?
now i put every day 10 ml of nopox with some drops of brightwell microbacter7.

[RedSea Aviad]

OK,
Do you use RO or tap water?
Check the levels of NO3 and PO4 for newly made salt mix, just before the water change.
I think you are trying to treat a symptom and not the problem.
Let's understand first, what is causing all this.
I suspect overfeeding or the fresh water you are using for the salt mix.
Keep me posted,
Aviad

[klaz]

thanks again aviad.
i use ro water and it is 1 from my tds.2 weeks now i only feed once per day and nothing more.
il check the levels of NO3 and PO4 for newly made salt mix lique you say.i ll be back in a few days with my resolts about...
anything else i do?

[RedSea Aviad]

Not for now.
Keep supplementing NOPOX.
Keep me posted,
Aviad

[klaz]

thanks aviad.
the cyano now is growing each day veeery fast. already i have lost 3 sps frags.another 2 today have start bleaching....what happening?all my results are fine, exept no3-po4.
today my chaeto dies,and the skimmate became darker every day.

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
In the meantime brush and filter\siphon all the cyano you can get to.
It will help reducing it and slow the outbreak.
Keep monitoring the nutrients' levels.
What are the nutrients’ levels now?
(it was very high)
Did you test the new salt mix?
Have you reduced the feeding?
Let me know.
All the best,
Aviad

[klaz]

Hi,
In the meantime brush and filter\siphon all the cyano you can get to.already do it almost every day
It will help reducing it and slow the outbreak.
Keep monitoring the nutrients' levels.i do it also.
What are the nutrients’ levels now?nothing change.about 50+
(it was very high)
Did you test the new salt mix?yes.no no3 or po4.
Have you reduced the feeding?sure.from the first time we speak.very small portion of food once per day.
Let me know.
All the best,
Aviadmy net litres(main tank and sub) are about 420 ltrs.now i give 10 ml of nopox every day.until now nothing change.my chaeto dies in a few days,and i have dark skimmate,darker than ever.the cyano continues growing but only in up on my life rock and not at all in the bottom.i have also antiphos in a bug in my sub.its time to remove it or i should minimize it?my po4 still hi leels,nothing change.
thanks aviad,you help me so much my friend.

[RedSea Aviad]

Your welcome!
Do another water test on Wednesday, and let's see what the change is.
Have a wonderful weekend,
Aviad

[klaz]

update.
the cyano have take control all my tank except the sand.i have lost with bleach another 2 sps. and the others is in not good condition.i have start today chemi clean to kill cyano.in the next 2 days i do nothing at all.after this chemical,i make a change of 100 ltrs,and i test again everything....
so in friday again....wish me good luck.

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
Please give me some numbers...
I can't help you without knowing the progress.
What was the readings for NO3 and PO4 throughout the week?
All the best,
Aviad

[sabbath]

Just a thought. A friends tank does better at fighting cyano when he doses reef energy A & B then without.
I feel that it is because it is holding the no3 up some, so the nopox can fight the po4 more. Correct me if i'm wrong...

Sent from my mobile

[RedSea Aviad]

When an imbalance occurs, you are right.
Adding more NO3 causes more PO4 uptake, as they are in conjunction.
But I don’t think Reef Energy has nothing to do with unless you overdose.
All the best,
Aviad

[sabbath]

But I don’t think Reef Energy has nothing to do with unless you overdose.
All the best,
Aviad

What do you mean Reef Energy has nothing to to do with?..



Sent from my mobile

[RedSea Aviad]

Reef Energy is a nutrition supplement that contains the very basic building blocks, therefore is very efficiently absorbed by corals and other organisms.
There are very little waste products coming from its utilization it in a form of NO3.
This is why it’s highly unlikely, if not overdosed, to get NO3 as a result of Reef Energy degradation.
Aviad.

[sabbath]

Reef Energy is a nutrition supplement that contains the very basic building blocks, therefore is very efficiently absorbed by corals and other organisms.
There are very little waste products coming from its utilization it in a form of NO3.
This is why it’s highly unlikely, if not overdosed, to get NO3 as a result of Reef Energy degradation.
Aviad.

Ahhh. Thanks.

Sent from my mobile

[sabbath]

Double post.



Sent from my mobile

[larryfl1]

any update on the cyano situation?? curious if it worked itself out or not

[klaz]

update.
i have eliminated the cyano but i have a small portion still in my tank.also i have eliminated nopox at 1 ml per day from 8 ml i was given...things are much better.the corals is in great shape and color.i put 3-4 times per week 20 drops of live bacteria and they help me to destroy also cyano.
still i have no3,they have drop, but not much.at least i have save my corals from bleaching....
i am affraid to raise nopox dose per day,because of cyano.what i should do from now on..?

[RegalAngel]

Dear Manuel,
The cyano you are having in your tank might be due to lack of flows.
If your tank is new it should disappear with time.
NO3:PO4-X will not encourage cyano growth, but reduce it by depriving PO4 that is necessary for its growth.

Please consider watching the second video in particular, and if you have time watch all of them:
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2078858

Using NO3:PO4-X in a way that reduces NO3 levels too fast and leaving PO4 rich water, encourage cyano growth, so you need to follow the directions carfuly.
Here are some threads about NO3:PO4-X
http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?p=19312795#post19312795

http://www.reefcentral.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2073141

Let me know how it worked for you.
All the best,
Aviad

[RedSea Aviad]

update.
i have eliminated the cyano but i have a small portion still in my tank.also i have eliminated nopox at 1 ml per day from 8 ml i was given...things are much better.the corals is in great shape and color.i put 3-4 times per week 20 drops of live bacteria and they help me to destroy also cyano.
still i have no3,they have drop, but not much.at least i have save my corals from bleaching....
i am affraid to raise nopox dose per day,because of cyano.what i should do from now on..?

Hello my friend,
Haven’t heard from you in a while…
I’m happy to hear you got rid of the cyano.
What are the NO3 and PO4 levels?
How much did they drop?
All the best,
Aviad

[machodik]

Hi There!
happened to search this topic about cyanobacteria. In my tank, I have some rock covered with cyanobacteria, should I just discard those rocks ? as I heard that cyanobacteria will be infectious to even all over the tanks? presentrly, I am fighting so hard to bring down my NO3 and PO4. have already installed Nitrate reactor (with deniballs inside) but too slow, now combined dosing with Vodka also using Seachem Phosguard for the PO4. but last water test result: No3: 20, Po4:0.5 thru API test kits.

what should? I wish to normalize the water of my tanks so that I can start putting some corals again.

cheers,


MD

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
Is it a new tank?
With biological processes you need to be very patient.
It takes time to reduce the nutrients, and bacterial population to grow.
Don’t remove the live rock, let the cyano disappear and then bring corals in.

Happy holidays,
Aviad

[machodik]

Hi,
Is it a new tank?
With biological processes you need to be very patient.
It takes time to reduce the nutrients, and bacterial population to grow.
Don’t remove the live rock, let the cyano disappear and then bring corals in.

Happy holidays,
Aviad

Thanks for your advise.

My Tanks was set up about 12 mons from now. while I install the denitrator this august, so it is about 4 to 5 month now. this october , the water coming out from my denitrator shown zero in Nitrate but the waqter from the tanks is about 20 PPM in my API test kits, that is why I starting dosing Vodka at teh same time.

As you suggest, I will not removed the said live rock but I am worry as I heard from others that cyano will tends to be infectious and may affect other live rock as well to hacve teh cyano too. I have observed that in some rocks there is cyano as well on some surfaces.

is this cyano cause by Vodka dosing or it is becasue the raised of the PO4 level? I am using seachem phosguard for lowering down the Po4.

Merry Christmas to all!

Cheers,


MD

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
It sound to me your tank is not fully stable yet.
If you don’t have corals, let the cyano grow and once it’s created a nice firm mat siphon it out.
Cyano is a PO4 magnet.
I think your reactor is either too small or the flow through it is too slow, otherwise it should have taken care of your tank.
I wouldn’t mix a few nutrient reduction methods in the same tank, stick to one, and try to figure out how to optimize it.
Do you feed a lot?
What do you feed with?

All the best,
Aviad

[machodik]

Hi,
It sound to me your tank is not fully stable yet.
If you don’t have corals, let the cyano grow and once it’s created a nice firm mat siphon it out.
Cyano is a PO4 magnet.
I think your reactor is either too small or the flow through it is too slow, otherwise it should have taken care of your tank.
I wouldn’t mix a few nutrient reduction methods in the same tank, stick to one, and try to figure out how to optimize it.
Do you feed a lot?
What do you feed with?

All the best,
Aviad

I also think My Tank is not yet stable, that is why I only have some fish and stop putting any corals except the last reamining one that still in good condition.

the reactor is JNS NR1 that it says can work on 800 liters. my tanks is about 287 liters of water. the flow in and out of the reactor is just fine, as we can not let a much heavy flow in of water since the out is maintain at 2 drops / sec.

I feed them : Tetra Marine Granules XL and occasionally some green vegetables or dry seaweeds (as use by teh japanese sushi (unsalted).

here is some photos:
the 3rd photo is teh only corals left and have been good for almost 5 to 6 months now. I wonder why she stay good while the rest was RIP???

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
Is the second picture your NO3 reactor?(it's pretty big)
What if you increase the flow to 3-4 drops?
If it’s such a strong reactor there is no reason for it not to take care of your “little” tank.

Your cyano is not that bad, lack of flow might also contribute to its formation.
It’s right behind that powerhead.

Try opening a thread in the professional forum, that way you can hear more opinions and not just mine.
Hope I helped.
Happy holidays,
Aviad

[machodik]

Hi,
Is the second picture your NO3 reactor?(it's pretty big)
What if you increase the flow to 3-4 drops?
If it’s such a strong reactor there is no reason for it not to take care of your “little” tank.

Your cyano is not that bad, lack of flow might also contribute to its formation.
It’s right behind that powerhead.

Try opening a thread in the professional forum, that way you can hear more opinions and not just mine.
Hope I helped.
Happy holidays,
Aviad

thanks again.

Yes, the 2nd picture is my nitrate reactor.
you got it right, I also heard from other forum that mentioning the lack of flow also contribute to cyano. as I am a newbies, I remmber that when I bought this particular rock from the stores, it seems that there is already cyano there. I mistooks it as coraline algae and the store owner is not honest with me or perhaps, I just consider probably he dont know too (but I really doubt it is the later).
I also observed the others rock also have the cyano also found at their bottom area, so I think Lack of flow is also one of the cause too. But how I improved the flows?
Will be also take this up on other forum and many thanks for your kind time to response to my queery.

Happy Holiday to you.

Cheers,


MD

[RedSea Aviad]

Hi,
Your very welcome.
I think that after you stabilize your tank and get it finely tuned the cyano will disappear.
All the best,
Aviad

[klaz]

a simple question.i want to start using reef energy a+b.its ok to use them separetly one by one on dosometric pumps inside my sump,or it is not?
i ask because i have read they must be to keep them in good shape on a fridge,and is better to put them to the main aquarium and not to a sump.
this is a bit urgent because i want to start use them but i dont know how..
thanks in advance.

[RedSea Aviad]

Yeia sas my friend,
It’s better to add Reef Energy A+B to the display tank when the overflow and return pump are off for 15-30 minutes, in order to allow the corals to ingest them.
When adding it to the sump it may reduce the affective concentration.
If your room temperature is not too high you can keep the bottles out, otherwise you should refrigerate them.
I hope I helped,
All the best,
Aviad